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Harbhajan

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ish kanjar di bass di gall nahi,

first a catholic then a Hindu then a Sikh then Muslim and now going back to Catholicism.

He is just jealous because his cult of Islam's tradition is "dying" and wants a tantrum because Sikhi is known for Guru Da Langar.

Oh and please don't put Roman Catholicism on par with Gursikhi as its foundation is on the worlds biggest fairy tale the Bible.

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Chatanga1 wrote:

"And why cant they be thiers AND ours?"

No problem with sharing as long as the borrower states where he borrowed the tradition from.

Maha Kharag Singh wrote:

"ish kanjar di bass di gall nahi,

first a catholic then a Hindu then a Sikh then Muslim and now going back to Catholicism.

He is just jealous because his cult of Islam's tradition is "dying" and wants a tantrum because Sikhi is known for Guru Da Langar.

Oh and please don't put Roman Catholicism on par with Gursikhi as its foundation is on the worlds biggest fairy tale the Bible."

Me a Hindu? That's new...and no I am not going back to Catholicism. Stating certain facts about Catholicism doesn't make one a Catholic.

As for jealousy...how can I be jealous of something that was born dead?

As for fairy tales I guess for you tales of God incarnating as half lion, a turtle fish and wildboar are more credible...

Gotta go now, my unicorns and dragons need to be fed...

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As for fairy tales I guess for you tales of God incarnating as half lion, a turtle fish and wildboar are more credible...

Gotta go now, my unicorns and dragons need to be fed...

its funny how when this guy was a singh he would write extensive posts (which i still have) on how one shouldn't use the word incarnating and instead used the word manifesting.

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Jsingh96 wrote;

"its funny how when this guy was a singh he would write extensive posts (which i still have) on how one shouldn't use the word incarnating and instead used the word manifesting."

When writing incarnation I was writing about the way most of you perceive the concept of avataravada which of course is a theophany not an incarnation. Most Indians, be they Sikh or Hindus, unfortunately behave regarding the avataras as if they were incarnations which of course makes them de facto mushriks.

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Mithar wrote:

"I think the reason why this guy would insist on using the term "menifesting" instead of incarnation is because he wanted to reconcile Sikhi and Hinduism to Shia Islam which does not believe in incarnation, that is why he would insist on using menifestation."

Actually avatar does not mean incarnation. Incarnation means becoming flesh (carnis=flesh) whereas avatara means "descent" for which the closest equivalent is theophany.

There is a thing called language which has precise codes of meaning and means of getting that meaning to be known. Avatara has a precise meaning which is not the equivalent of incarnation.

Hindus themselves agree that it is not incarnation:

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=23023

http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/ani...r-religions.htm

Does it ever occur to you that you and your mates sound pathetic when you use words like avatar whose meaning you don't even know and re-invent after each degh session you had.

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Let’s see what Avtar means in light of Gurbani. In Sukhmani Sahib’s 13th Ashtpadi, Guru Jee says:

ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ ਸੰਤ ਸਰਨਿ ਜੋ ਜਨੁ ਪਰੈ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਉਧਰਨਹਾਰ ॥ ਸੰਤ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਅਵਤਾਰ ॥੧॥ {279}

“Those who come to charan of Sants are liberated from the dukhs of life and death. But those who do Nindya of Sants, take birth over and over again”

All teekakars have translated Avtar here as “Janam”.

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You're right there Mithar. The problem is that when used in Gurbani or Punjabi etc, we know what Avtar is referring to, but when translating to English there is no equivalent so we need to use the correct word for a particular context.

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Avatar means to descend as morge sahar has said earlier. God can descend, as well as our souls can descend from the human kingdom to the animal kingdom. There are many references in Gurbani of souls descending(avatar) into hells and heavens

So maybe descend and incarnation are BOTH wrong terms to use or should I say both do not fully explain Avtar. In Gurbani and in classical Punjabi literature Avtar usually means to describe birth, incarnation, manifestation, descend. But it probably has a wider meaning than that.

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ava = from above downwards

tara = from the root TR tarati , to cross (if horizontal)

the prefix ava indicates a descending motion hence why avatara means only one thing: descent

Whatever conotations are attached to the word later on are semantic changes that are contextual. As for classical Panjabi literature I am not aware of the use of avatar in the sense Mithar describes in the woks of Bulleh Shah, Shah Hussain, Waris Shah, Baba Farid who are the classic of Panjabi literature. As for the passage Mithar has used to illustrate his point it shows the extension of the meaning of avatar normally restricted to divine manifestation to cover all souls. That's all it is.

Descent is the literal and correct translation of avatara, though most specialists of Indian religions leave the term untranslated given its popular use in the English language as a borrowed term like shampoo and bungalow.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Unbreakable wrote:

"I am God reborn as a human."

Your own mulmantar says that God is ajuni, wombless not born.

You are not the Creator nor are you all knowing, nor all powerful yet you state that you are God.

Your Bhai Gurdas dian Varan even criticize Vyasa for meditating on So'ham (I am He).

You will never stop amazing me with the sheer amount of blasphemy and shirk that comes out of your mouth. Unfortunately you have just commited the ultimate sin: spiritual arrogance. Such a waste of life...

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Unbreakable wrote:

"I am God reborn as a human."

Your own mulmantar says that God is ajuni, wombless not born.

You are not the Creator nor are you all knowing, nor all powerful yet you state that you are God.

Did you create yourself? No

Do you pray to yourself? No

How arrogant.

Your Bhai Gurdas dian Varan even criticize Vyasa for meditating on So'ham (I am He) and the Adi Granth clearly says:

Let that mouth burn that says that the Lord takes birth. He is not born nor does he die. He does not come come and go (i.e. is not reborn).

You will never stop amazing me with the sheer amount of blasphemy and shirk that comes out of your mouth. Unfortunately you have just commited the ultimate sin: spiritual arrogance. Such a waste of life...

I may have my differences with what most of you call Sikhism, especially the Khalsa tradition, but fact remains that my respect and love for Hazrat Baba Nanak Shah (ra) is undiminished and it pains me to see people who claim to be his disciples distort his teachings to claim that they are God reborn as human which is by the standards of Gurbani itself the highest ever possible sin. Sad indeed...

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If you have a problem with me conserving an academic interest in Sikhism that's a problem you as the all knowing divinity you claimn to be will have to solve.

I find it humorous that a person who claims to be God incarnated should call me arrogant. For your information it's not me who calls you a sinner. I am referring to his tuk from gurbani:

"Let that mouth burn that says that the Lord takes birth. He is not born nor does he die. He does not come come and go (i.e. is not reborn). "

The problem with claiming to be God is that there is unfortunately no coming back from that. Only a person imbued with outmost arrogance would ever type such words. To claim to be God is to reject the sacrosanct Lordship of God and is an insult to his attribute of Lord, King and Master. Whether as a joke or as a serious claim in both cases it reveals a total disrespect for Our Creator and a rejection of our poisition as creatures. You just don't mess with Divine Majesty and there is a price to pay for such actions I am afraid. The very fact that Unbreakable has done this on purpose, that he has risked the fate of his immortal soul by making such a statement is actually even worse.Asking apologies from mortals who can't punish you for your foolish statement won't get you anywhere and gurbani itself has settled you fate. Then again God's mercy may respond to the sincere request of a soul shaking in repentance.

May God have mercy...

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