Sikh Art Work

[Ragmaala]

while were on the vishe of art tell me what u guys think of this (i did it today)

mks did u really make it ?

if you did then this is very beautiful !!!!!!!!!!

[BhagatSingh]

Singh I mean source as in historical sense.

The Nihangs and Akalis were real people with real history. Whats the purpose of mixing make believe stuff with actual history? Make belief characters can definetely be successful at conveying messages as Bhai Vir Singhs novel have shown. But adopting make beleif characters, traditions and practices seems like a pretty dangerous path to tred. I dont think the Nihangs would be too happy with make belief traditions either.

Dont get me wrong, I really like some of your artwork. The picture of Baba Ajit Singh was superb, how come you took it down?

Bro I have no historical source for that because I made it up after seeing the artwork of another Singh. I provided the link on that page.

I know they are real people with an amazing history! I am a Sikh! If I didn't know who would!?

This is my imagination. If Sikhs are going to make a place in the fantasy world, they are going to learn magic. So this was where they started, with necromancy. Trust me bro once I have this figured out and I have some feedback, it'll look wicked.

The reason for using Akali and Nihang is... for no reason. I see the words as "Sikh Warriors". I don't want to use Sikh directly. In fact, I want the word Sikh to appear less often. (If there is another word I can use then please suggest) WHy? because Sikh = religion, too "normal"! Akali = hmm.. cool! Say Nihang! (say it) NiHUNG! sounds like he/she is gona murder someone. I use the words because I can relate to them and they sound wicked! But again if there are other words then I will definitely give them a try OR switch over completely.

I am not trying to make traditions up. This is fiction. The storyline is called "Miri Piri" and it is about Guru Hargobind Singh ji's swords. These swords are able to absorb magical energy and redirect them, which is why they are so powerful. They were lost somehow and need to be found again to end the reign of terror. I see nothing wrong with this. I have taken a concept of Sikhism and have expanded it into something different. I am definitely not trying to change anything here. I am not trying to offend anyone. Afterall, I have grew up with the same stories and same religion.

The painting of Baba Ajit Singh has been uploaded once again with more details and with the full sequence of his strikes.

Fateh!

Bhagat Singh

[BhagatSingh]

"So you would rather see animations and comics made on Hindu mythology than Sikh superheroes?

I see how it is."

No you don't seem to be seeing much at all brother. Earlier we were speaking about the reason our youth don't have 'heroes' - as I pointed out the reasons were knowledge and language gap, as your lack of knowledge regarding the Sikh I mentioned shows (with all due respect).

That was not meant to be taken too seriously. But yes I have no knowledge of Sikh history, I am still learning. Knowledge and language gap I agreed with. I had no problem with it.

I used the Sri Ganesha cartoons to give you an example of religious inspiration for youth, be it the youth of a different dharm. They have tried to stay true to their characters and it works.

Yes, I know but its all fantasy. They already have fantasy stories. They are cool! Their kids will dig them. We don't have that. We have something better that we need to introduce. Use fantasy as the stairs...

I have given examples in Sikh circles also which are hugely succesful - Vismaad productions, although I personally feel they have a long, long way to go (after having had meetings with the producers my self and acknowledging they are more interested in popularity rather than correct historical representation).

Yes, why? Because people would rather look at fantasy figures. The hulk, superman, spiderman. I completely agree with the language gap and knowledge. But it does not end there. THe vismaad have fantisized history and have sugared it up.

What I would suggest to them is to switch to superheroes because the blood filled history of Sikhs is definitely not for little kids.

I am trying to leave history unchanged and create fantasy using some elements from the history. Read the my post above.

Lastly I agree with malwa da sher, mixing sacred Sikh traditions and terms like Akali with fantasy nonsense like snake charming, magic and model behaviour, is not going to win you any friends or create Sikh inspiration, rather it will create a new cultish fetish for these hybrid fantasy reality characters....

Why do you think I am trying to win friends or create inspiration with that?

You pick one work out of the other 50 I have and come to conclusions with it?

This is purely your opinion, you have not reasoned here in any way.

BTW I do this for myself, and want to see if others like it so that I can build upon what I have. Snake Charmer was not my most liked work. So its OK. Its called expressing yourself, oh and read the comments underneath before you jump to more conclusions.

Saying all that, you definately have a great talent, and like some of your other work, I pray you focus your attention on creating great historical pieces - something which our Panth would greatly bless you for.

Thank you! I really am trying to learn our history and I am trying hard to make my work look authentic and real!

At the same time, I am following my own interests, which lie in fantasy Nihangs. Nihangs to me is a word for a fearless Sikh warrior. And instead of using Sikh, I use that instead or Akali. I used Khalistani once, and someone got pissed off. (Khalistan is a kingdom in the storyline, from which the Khalistani Warrior cam from) All of them stay until I am provided with better labels. I use Nihang and Akali because they sound good. They have amazing meanings and because Sikh automatically says Sikhism to a non-Sikh, whereas, Akali and Nihang have a great feel to the word and don't pop out at you like Sikh does.

All the best.

Thanks!

[BhagatSingh]

BYW shaheediyan ji, you still haven't answered my previous question about the "problem".

Please answer ASAP.

Thanks

[amardeep]

I like your ideas and your work.. thumps up bro

[BhagatSingh]

thanks! I appreciate it.

[Dynamic_Banda]

I like what bhagat singh is doing, I think its a good idea, at the end of the day an artist can only express what he thinks is correct, how correct are the current sobha singh images of the Gurus which are plastered all over encyclopedia even on the beloved sikhawareness banner?

They are art and because of that their is an ability for the artist to portray a concept, the pictures of the Gurus show them sitting or standing in a tranquil state of meditation etc, they highlight that concept because the artist felt that was important.

There is a place for hyper realistic and accurate history in comics and pictures but even that will be based on references and interpretations. An image can only be as authentic as its source,

On the other hand if we look at where Bhagat Singh is in his own sikhi path, he states hes on the path inspired and finding out more, and that is where his comics make perfect sense,

The hyper accurate historical academic sikh may feel that his artist skill should be used to portray only the accurate history but then the comic would be full of blank pages, because even the stories we have today are warped and skewed by katha kars to add that current touch which relates to the audience.

Bhagat Singhs audience are those who also look at spiderman and think man thats cool, Peter Parker rocks !

300 is not an accurate comic its a totally stylized skewed view of an historical event. But because of it, we all now know alittle bit more about a culture most of us would not give 2 hoots about unless we studied greek cultures or the persian wars etc.

Banis are translated to English, the words are the ones the translator felt were most suitable according to his professional, academic or even personal beliefs, in the same way comics and art are translations which look at one concept and skew the others to make it fun and interesting and to attract a wider audience.

It is simply a medium to express something and if it has a sikhi twist because those things are important to Bhagat Singh then even better.

So to all you nay sayers and people that feel his artwork and comics should be more real, just remember who ran around the house pretending to be batman or superman when they were younger? and how many people ran around the house pretending to be that guy from blue peter !!

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

The reason for using Akali and Nihang is... for no reason. I see the words as "Sikh Warriors". I don't want to use Sikh directly. In fact, I want the word Sikh to appear less often. (If there is another word I can use then please suggest) WHy? because Sikh = religion, too "normal"! Akali = hmm.. cool! Say Nihang! (say it) NiHUNG! sounds like he/she is gona murder someone. I use the words because I can relate to them and they sound wicked! But again if there are other words then I will definitely give them a try OR switch over completely.

I am not trying to make traditions up. This is fiction. The storyline is called "Miri Piri" and it is about Guru Hargobind Singh ji's swords. These swords are able to absorb magical energy and redirect them, which is why they are so powerful. They were lost somehow and need to be found again to end the reign of terror. I see nothing wrong with this. I have taken a concept of Sikhism and have expanded it into something different. I am definitely not trying to change anything here. I am not trying to offend anyone. Afterall, I have grew up with the same stories and same religion. "

I find this all very distressing and saddening. You are opening up a Pandora's box. You think children will look at this 'eye candy' and be inspired to search for the truth, how naieve, they will begin to believe these stories you are creating. You will make them so confused they will not know their arse from their head. The 'world' is dangerous, to put ideas 'out there' you make them liable to become corroded to be dissolved, to become profane. If you have a taste for fantasy do not drag down noble ideas into your personal fantasy worlds. There is something known as the truth this truth is not subjective it is not fantasy. By entwining sikh history, and sikh ideas in fantasy worlds you are creating confusion, an individual 100 years from now looking at your 'fantasy' work will build up an idea completely opposite to what real sikhi is. He will think it is some kind of cult obsessed by physical appearence, to define their essence. In other words inside out people.

I also have a contention with the above post by DB. This individualistic approach is a concealment of something sinister. An artist does not portray what he thinks is correct. The artist is not cut off from contemporary social trends. The 'artist' is influenced into making types of art. An artist works from a tradition, or if not he works with emptiness he remoulds nothingness into different froms of nothingness. I must stress this again these pictures and fantasy ideas are not personal or individual of Bhagat Singh he has made them because he is influenced by contemporary society he has made them to be a servant to the ideas that are seen as 'cool' he is a servant to maya. This Bhagat Singh is nothing but a slave. Contemporary society has severed all links with tradition it has an eroding corrosive effect, To have permission to make art you must have permission from god real permission. Not just any to dick and harry can come up and make some art. Ideas and images are powerful, we underestmate the power of them. Be careful what you eat, otherwise you will get indigestion, and believe me you do not want to get the shits.

[shaheediyan]

Well said Mekhane'ch Jannat.

This is not a case of oppression of individuality (which of course is not so individual as MJ points out above and which Bhagat Singh alludes to also), this is a case of social irresponsibilty. Simple.

As I said before, I hope this chap sees sense and puts his personal fantasies aside when creating pieces using Sikh traditions.

[Malwe Da Sher]

MY thoughts have been well portrayed by Shaheedddiyan and MJ. Bhagat Singh have you read Pracheen Panth Parkash or any other of the Sikh historic granths? You will find plenty of sakhia disucssing the various powers possesed by Singhs. There is ample material there for you to use for the purpose you have specified. If its magic you are interested in you will have no shortage of material to use.

The word, guise, and symbology of Akali is sacred and divine. Without sounding like an extremist mixing and merging make believe fantasy stuff with Akalis who represent Akaal Purakh is pretty disheratening and offensive. Akali is supposed to be the roop of Akaal and shouldnt be played around with to make fantasy black magic characters completely unrealeted to sikhi. Main concern is you will be opening up pandoras box as MJ has stated.

Some of you artwork is really splendid and I hope you carry on doing it. However you really need to consider the consequences of mixing fantasy with reality, it will lead to great confusion.

[Matheen]

The 'Amar charitar' comic books are what first got me interested in Sikhi. They were short, but the stories were accurate. I still have the one about Hari Singh Nalwa, lol.

Malwe Da Sher makes a very important point, just read some of our history - we don't need to make up figures or events. Keep it real and it will be parchaar, make up stories and it's just nice art work.

[BhagatSingh]

Ok great replies guys! Now I need a survey of the age of the people that responded. So I know what age group this comes from. I need your true age.

We'll start with me, I am 19.

Dynamic_Banda ji, I couldn't said this better myself:

It is simply a medium to express something and if it has a sikhi twist because those things are important to Bhagat Singh then even better.

[shaheediyan]

18

[amardeep]

i must say i am surprised.. i thought you were much older than 18 shaheediyan..

i am 21

[BhagatSingh]

lol same here. He sounds like 25-30, just by how he talks.

[amardeep]

Yeah.. He should start calling me paaji now

[shaheediyan]

Oh, sorry.. typo. 81.

You can call me Baba Ji, Amardeep Puther.

[amardeep]

I already have for the past 6 months:D

[BhagatSingh]

I already have for the past 6 months:D

Very Sikh-like indeed. :wink:

[Malwe Da Sher]

Bhagat Singh,

Once upon a time the Sikhs were great musicians, they played the most elequent instruments in a skilled manner all in par with the traditions established by their Gurus. One day a creative musician experimented with a new instrument, as it is was something new he felt it would appeal to people and at the same time and they would listen to more gurbani. He was successful, more and more people began listening to kirtan. More and more artists began expressing their abilities with these new instruments that they would singh the Gurus shabads on. After all the method was not important it was the result that mattered - getting people to listen to kirtan. So successful were they in the objective that people stopped learning the traditional instruments, infact most people forget that there ever was such a thing as instruments made by the Guru. Even those who knew of them didnt seem to enjoy traditional instruments as much as the new musicians. No one ever understood that the use of new instruments was for the sole purpose of preaching to the uneducated villagers. And on the greatest stages where the best performers and the greatest musicians would present their art, that what was meant to preach to villagers replaced a tradition established by the Gurus and a tradition which existed in India for hundreds if not thousands of years. Infact, the tunes on these new instruments became more important than the divine hymns themselves.

This is one of the many possible dangers of what you are doing. Children will become more concerned with these fantasy charcters than actual history. Our great history books are gathering dusts in Gurdwara librarys all over the world, these texts were often written by those who had direct lineages to the Sikh Gurus. Would it not make sense to try and bring alive the characters within those real history texts rather than make up characters? Even the making of characters is ok I feel, as Bhai Vir Singh made a success of it. But what you appearing to be doing is making up characters, traditions, history, practices and a whole new religion in itself? Veerji your comics may be a great success and people may love them, but what will have been achieved? People will become engufled in these fantasy characters and puratan sakhis will gather more dust. People will become more obsessed with make beleive exciting stories and ignore real history. Yet how were they to know that magical stories had been written already centuries before? The fantasy and the history will become mixed and people will not care to differentiate between the two and it will soon be assumed that it was all just fantasy. When seeking to do something revolutionary rather than thinking what benefits it will have in 2 years time you must also consider the consequences in 10 years time. .

The image, symbology and concepts sorrounding the Akali is considered sacred. If a Sikh cannot respect that then how are those who innocently adopt characters from your work expected to? Could someone else make a comic based on the idea of a Nihang, could the be used in a novel, a film (Im sure extradanory league of gentleman had a character loosely based on a nihangs). What respect would these projects have for the sacredness of such ideas? Just look at how cheaply samurais have been used in media the media, half the world probably believes the samurai traditions were saved by a white man thanks to Tom Cruises last samurai. People make cartoons about a dog thats a samurai. Has any of this successfully revived samurai teachings, traditions or philosophy?

You are clearly very telented, with any ability comes great responsability. You have various options in which you can use your talent, your choice is the same as someone in the following situation: imagine somewhen with great musical ability who can play so many instruments. With such a talent this person could make great efforts to popularise and restore the great raag vidiya and musical heritage of the Sikhs. But this particuarly Sikh has a really fond interest in heavy rock music, so instead of doing kirtan with classical instrments which they had the choice to do they form a heavy rock kirtan jatha. They know a lot of young people will listen to their kirtan because a people like heavy rock and indeed many peoplle buy their heavy rock kirtan cds and the travel the world performing their heavy rock kirtan. However, what would all this mean of the sancity of traditionso of the Gurus kirtan, what would it mean for the centuries old vidiya, what will be the consequence 50 years later for how gurbani is percieved and how its performed?

Sorry for the long analogy, I just feel really strongly that stuff like the Akali snake charmer is really dangerous and offensive. As much as I love some of your art work I those that picture is a perversion of something highly sacred. I particuarly fail to understand this when there are ample references to Singhs with super human abilities in historic granths. Although those of a western education may choose to believe stories in such granths are fabricated and make belives stuff, at least they are ground in traditions, history and culture of the Sikhs.

I have spoken to 5 or 6 other people who were also disheartened by the consequences of the Akali Snake picture whos ages are from between 18-27.

[Malwe Da Sher]

I think thats the longest post I have prob done on Sikhawareness, as such I would like eitehr Neo or one of the other admin team to present me witha a siropa and possibly a cash endowment of either $11, $51, $101.

[Guest]

I think thats the longest post I have prob done on Sikhawareness, as such I would like eitehr Neo or one of the other admin team to present me witha a siropa and possibly a cash endowment of either $11, $51, $101.

how about presenting you an blue kachera with longest nala ever?

[Malwe Da Sher]

Blue kasherra is against maryada, I always new Sikhawareness had an anti-Sikh agenda and now N30 has just proved it. Im going to take a print screen of your post and put it on Sikhsangat, no no no wait... Im going to make a blog about it.

[Guest]

mega lol :lol:

anyway shhhh stick to the topic

[amardeep]

www.sikh-heritage.co.uk has a good section on sikh arts in which caligraphy is included...