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Thanks silence ji i will try and downlaod it.

There is a similiar vaar in Bhai Gurdass vaara with the same wording where the Ramayana is mentioned by name:

ਰਾਮਾਇਣੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਅਟਲੁ ਸੇ ਉਧਰੇ ਜੋ ਆਏ ਸਰਣਾ ।

Ramayan (the story of Ram) is ever firm (in the mind of people) and whosoever seeks shelter (in it) goes across (the world ocean).

http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?word...31&pauri=18

the context is the life of ram chander as mentioned in the ramayana and the same vaar goes on to say that Ram Chander is nirmal purakh, a pure being.

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But usually don't have an answer when asked where the 'bipran ki reet' tuk comes from.

I think it's all part of a divide & conquer tactic - create doubt and attract followers. The funding of such groups is hazy and as mentioned, may have a link to the RSS etc.

Baba Hari Singh Ji answered their questions well and Darshan ragi was made to look like an idiot in Germany last year.

Just think about it that the same Baba Hari Singh and his chela Malkiat Singh were given two hours on Radio Shere-Punjab, vancouver about two weeks ago to explain about so called Dasam Granth and answer questions, provide proofs to back up their claims. Guess what, they hung up after 90 minutes and were unable to answer a single question and all they did was complain.

The very next Monday the same Hari Singh was to have a live debate in person with Prof. Darshan Singh and Giani Jachak, Hari Singh simply left the stage making excuses and disappeared. It was video recorded and published in almost all news papers just last week. Unable to show his face in public the next day, he showed up overnight in Seatle gurdwara. There again he was asked repeatedly by Bhai Ajay Singh of RadioAwaz.net to come on the live radio for 15 minutes and explain the whole episode. But baba HAri Singh turned out to be less of Baba and so called Sant.

The word Bipar means Brahmin, the Hindu Poojari. Reet means Marayada. So Bipran ki Reet means the Brahmin Marayada. Meaning turning your back on Guru ji. That is what you do when you coinsider the whole so called Dasam Granth as Guru Gobind Singh ji bani.

I can post about one hundred instances where this so called bani teaches exactly contrary to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

If only one third of this Granth (Charitro Pakhyan) was to be translated in English and handed over to an underage person, you can be charged by the US & Canadian police under anti-pronography laws. And you people consider this Guru ji bani. A few of the local Taksali singhs, who also believed this to be Guru ji bani, when finished reading this whole compilation, were shocked out of their minds and ashamed to be called Dasam Granthi Sikhs. If you have the guts, then read it yourself. Even Dr. Thind, who has done so much of the Gurbani seva online refused to post an English translation online out of embarassment.

Please grow up and become true Sikhs of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji alone. REMEMBER ONE PANTH & ONE GRANTH !

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Guru Da Sikh,

can you please share audio of radio show and video with the sangat? so sangat can decide for themselves..??

I understand you don't consider any living being sant but i must ask to show respect to your fellow gursikh parcharik in this case- baba hari singh, at least address them as bhai or bhai sahib to avoid lame flame name calling from both sides. We also request other side who are proponents of- prof darshan singh as prof sahib or missionaries. We request them to focus more on the mindset than the personality/organization. That's the only way to make the debate more civilize and make debate more like vichar .

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If published in every newspaper, please provide links so we can see for ourselves.

Taksali Singhs are taught the correct arth of Dasam Bani anyway, so either they weren't Taksali or you're lying. There is nothing wrong with Charitro Pakhyan, only in your mind. I take it you've been reading the incorrect translations, or just believing everything that Darshan ragi says.

There are a few on here who can answer your doubts on Dasam Bani - go ahead and list them.

You didn't answer the qusetion - which Granth has the 'Bipran ki reet' paragraph?

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View Propaganda Here

In the last few hours a blitz of scathingly insensitive videos have been released by this group of sinners effectively they are saying that taksaal promotes homosexuality and vulgar sexuality because it supports Sri Dasam Guru Darbar ji.

In the videos mahapappis can be seen using highlighters on the gutkha sahibs--dispicable!

Who is this group? They seem to be connected to Kala Afgana and Ragi Darshan,

Does this group own any gurdwaras?

What can be done to stop them?

valli singh.

I seriously suggest you spend time working on your own body to get physically fit , your own intellectual capacity by reading , and spirituality through Bani.

Because if you did this, you would realise when you are pointing the finger at someone else, there are THREE pointing back at you!

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Reading in Punjabi rather than English translations, and listening to Katha by Mahapursh, there isn't 'ustat' of devi/devte. Respect is certainly given and they are praised for whatever good qualities they possess (the same goes for all the jodhey/warriors mentioned in Dasam Bani), but ustat is always for Akaal.

If we took single lines without placing them in context, (So in your words people who translated the whole Dasam Granth in Punjabi did NOT read the whole translations. How long are you going to keep up with these excuses of Mahanpursh & Giani explanations? People that do the translation simply present what is written there in simple language and now you are going to fall back on some individuals rather than Guru Granth Sahib ji)

Are we talking about the same Mahapursh like ‘sach khand vaasi’ Baba Thakur Singh ‘ji’ of Damdami Taksal who continuously lied to the Khalsa Panth for 21 years about Baba Jarnail Singh’s shaheedi in 1984. Keep this in mind that this so called mahanpurkh did this while he was sitting in the hazoori of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. And you are going to believe the translations and interpretations done by these HABITUAL LIARS you call ‘Sant’. Is that NOT beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji? Think about the word Sant in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and this old dude’s character.

then it could be argued that there is 'ustat' of Aurangzeb in Zafarnama.......

EDIT: LISTEN TO THE NEW Q&A with Sant Jagjit Singh Ji - they answer your question perfectly.

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very true, eg. the "Ram Katha jug jug atal..." line- the translation completely misrepresents the meaning, giani thakur singh vyakhia completely cleared it up

vaheguru shukar hai

So what you are saying is that the complete chapter translations written by Dasam Granth believers, when starts to project Guru Gobind Singh as worshipping Devi, Devtas, Shiva, other deities, is NOT in COMPLETE CONTEXT and Giani Takhur Singh, who will only recite a certain stanza knows the COMPLETE meaning of it ! Can you see the flaw in your argument?

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Thanks silence ji i will try and downlaod it.

There is a similiar vaar in Bhai Gurdass vaara with the same wording where the Ramayana is mentioned by name:

ਰਾਮਾਇਣੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਅਟਲੁ ਸੇ ਉਧਰੇ ਜੋ ਆਏ ਸਰਣਾ ।

Ramayan (the story of Ram) is ever firm (in the mind of people) and whosoever seeks shelter (in it) goes across (the world ocean).

http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?word...31&pauri=18

the context is the life of ram chander as mentioned in the ramayana and the same vaar goes on to say that Ram Chander is nirmal purakh, a pure being.

When reading Bhai Gurdass ji’s vaars, it is important to know the following;

1. These were NOT inducted into Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, probably because these can sometime be ‘misleading’ to a person not because that is what Bhai sahib ji intended, because we sometime can not dig deep into the teaching being targeted.

2. These have been used by the Mahants who controlled Gurdwaras from 1849 until Singh Sabha Gurdwara Sudhar movement liberated these religious places. These Mahants used Bhai Gurdas ji’s vaars to install Brahman Meryada (Bipran ki Reet) by taking only a few starting lines of each selected vaar to spread Hindu mythology.

3. Normally Bhai Gurdas ji will give a whole bunch of examples in the start of the vaars (even from Hindu Mythology) and normally the last line will give Gurmat teaching.

In this case the teaching is as follows in the last line;

ਜਸ ਅਪਜਸ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਿਡਰ ਡਰਣਾ ॥੧੮॥

jas apajas vichi nidar daranaa ॥18॥

Dharma-abiding people earn glory in the world and those who undertake evil adventures get infamy.

Meaning, the Hindu god Ram and Ravna were also involved in wars but any person who follows Gurmat will earn honour and all Manmukhs will get infamy.

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If published in every newspaper, please provide links so we can see for ourselves.

Here is the link to the news recently about Bhai Hari Singh ji’s planned debate in New York about Dasam Granth; http://rozanaspokesman.com/fullpage.aspx?v...=27&pview=7

Taksali Singhs are taught the correct arth of Dasam Bani anyway, so either they weren't Taksali or you're lying. There is nothing wrong with Charitro Pakhyan, only in your mind. I take it you've been reading the incorrect translations, or just believing everything that Darshan ragi says.

First of all I hope you learn to show respect for a person who has served the Panth Khalsa as Jathedar of Sri Akal Takhat sahib during the most difficult time and continue to do so by simply addressing him Professor Darshan Singh ji, instead of Darshan ragi.

Second, there are no translations of Dasam Granth done by Prof. Darshan Singh ji rather he is simply stating the facts from Translation posted on the internet by Baba Virsa Singh ji’s website. Prof. Ji is pointing out all writings in Dasam Granth that are either contradictory to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or are erotic in nature without any teaching, hence serving no purpose at all.

Which Taksal are we referring to: Bhai Ram Singh ji’s FACTION or Harnam Singh Dhuma’s FACTION. Remember these factions fought over the control of assets & succession plan set in by Baba Thakur Singh and did not even comply with his last documented wishes faxed to Akal Takhat and verified by then Akal Takhat Jathedar.

There are a few on here who can answer your doubts on Dasam Bani - go ahead and list them.

I have posted my answers at the following link” http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=11434

and are waiting approval by Admin before posting. I have posted some preliminary questions about Dasam Granth and will post more quesstions at the same link once answers to my initial questions are received.

You didn't answer the qusetion - which Granth has the 'Bipran ki reet' paragraph?

Bipran Ki Reet paragraph is from Dasam Granth. I am sure if you would have read any part of the Dasam Granth you would not have to ask me. I am sure that you have read my other postings to understand what Bipran ki Reet means. It is exactly where we are heading today and in the near future if we continue to walk away from the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

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Randip Singh Ji, jokes aside, these guys need to be dealt with.

I agree with you whole heartedly. Let see if you can do this intellectually by presenting proofs from Sri Guru Grath Sahib ji’s Gurbani. Remember Guru ji cautioned us about anything else outside Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji; (Page 920)

sathiguroo binaa hor kachee hai baanee || Without the True Guru, other songs are false.

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Amardeep, listen to the answer given by Sant Jagjit Singh Ji about Chandi.

Why not tell him to read Dasam Granth analysis written and presented on the website by Baba Virsa Singh ji. Why now tell him to go to somebody’s personal views, which may be influenced by some institutional or personal agenda !

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The reason I asked about the 'Bipran ki reet' passage (you're wrong by the way) will become clear soon.

Darshan Ragi has probably never read Sri Dasam Granth. I lost all respect for him since he started spreading lies and showed his ignorance. Why did he sing so many Shabads from Sri Dasam Granth in the past and why are his CDs of those shabads still on sale?

Rozana spokesman is only good for one thing.......bear in mind Joginder Sahni was excommunicated by the Akaal Takhat.

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The reason I asked about the 'Bipran ki reet' passage (you're wrong by the way) will become clear soon.

Darshan Ragi has probably never read Sri Dasam Granth. I lost all respect for him since he started spreading lies and showed his ignorance. Why did he sing so many Shabads from Sri Dasam Granth in the past and why are his CDs of those shabads still on sale?

Prof. Darshan Singh has admitted that he did do Kirtan from Dasam Granth ONLY up to the time when he was unaware about the complete meaning of this Granth. Once he understood that, he immediately stopped. Is there anything wrong with that? You make mistakes in life when you don’t have the knowledge about something, but you correct them when you get to know!

As far his CDs go, he was and is still under contract with T Series people for marketing rights of those CDs. T Series is a business and simply after making money and could care less about any principles being violated. So they continue to market them, especially when people are more interested in controversial issues.

Consider this concept, if my father and / or your grand father ended up being alcoholics simply because of their lack of knowledge that daily drinking can lead to this menace, don’t I have the right to stop drinking (if I were)?

Rozana spokesman is only good for one thing.......bear in mind Joginder Sahni was excommunicated by the Akaal Takhat.

Do you seriously believe that Akal Takhat is independent in the last few decades?

Even the Jathedars, are ignorant (I don’t mean in any disrespectful way). On May 11, I was listening to Radio Shere-Punjab’s live discussion with one of these Jathedars (Nandgarh from Damdama Sahib). He stated on the radio that he was unaware of any news about Dasam Granth & Sri Guru Granth Sahib being bonded together as ONE Granth and that two of such Birs were sitting at Takhat Keshgarh Sahib. He said he read about in newspaper on May 11, 2009, exactly 5 days after the news broke and debates were underway in North America and Europe and condemnations were pouring in from all over the world. He made this statement 4 days after SGPC had already instituted a penal to probe this incident.

All Jathedars are political appointees by Badal family in Punjab for their own political agenda. Otherwise why would head of religious institution SGPC will be campaigning for the daughter in law of a political figure?

Rozana Spokesman has openly challenged the political monopoly of Badal family and to silence Joginder Singh, Badal being a clever politician he is, used the religious stick to whack this man. It is a common tool. It gives you the results you want politically (to silence your opponents) and never take the blame for that yourself ! Clever, eh !

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Rozana spokesman is not an authentic source of information. Baba Hari Singh ji has debated (and defeated) missionaries on camera before, it makes no sense that he would run away considering his knowledge of the topic. The fact that news sources that have proven themselves to be vehemently anti-Dasam Bani are the only ones reporting this alleged incident shows it to be made up.

btw, here's an article on the saroop with Dasam Bani combined with Guru Granth Sahib ji: http://sikhsangat.org/1469/2009/05/a-histo...i-dasam-granth/

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Looks guys, do your own analysis of Dasam Granth. It becomes quite apparent that there are some sections that are penned by the 10th Master, but their are other sections that are not.

There are metaphors in there, and there is no evidence that Guruji believed in multiple armed Goddesses/Gods either.

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Looks guys, do your own analysis of Dasam Granth. It becomes quite apparent that there are some sections that are penned by the 10th Master, but their are other sections that are not.

There are metaphors in there, and there is no evidence that Guruji believed in multiple armed Goddesses/Gods either.

A complete ridiculous theory put forward. There is no section of dasam granth where there is veneration of any hindu gods and Goddesses. We want a reference.

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Guru da sikh wrote

So what you are saying is that the complete chapter translations written by Dasam Granth believers, when starts to project Guru Gobind Singh as worshipping Devi, Devtas, Shiva, other deities, is NOT in COMPLETE CONTEXT and Giani Takhur Singh, who will only recite a certain stanza knows the COMPLETE meaning of it ! Can you see the flaw in your argument?

Where are those sections where Guru ji has venerated Hindu gods and Goddesses. can you show us?

You need to understand Dasam granth before levelling such baseless allegations.

Dasam granth is a combination of various compositions. There are banis that are dedicated to Akal Purakh. There are banis taken from Markandey puranas, Bhagwat puranas and skand Puranas. These have been altered per sikh philosophy and characters of these devi and devtas have been altered. They are shown under the command of akal purakh and not supreme powers as shown in Hidnu texts.

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Bipran ki Reet comes from Amrit Kirtan attributed to Dasam Patshah ! if that is what you are eluding too !

A total lie. Even kala afghana does not know where is bipran ki reet. This was asked from him. He was found blinkering.

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Those who write that Guru sahib believed in devi devtas of Hindus should read this

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

चौपई ॥

CHAUPAI

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿਕ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਪਚਹਾਰੇ ॥

ब्रहमादिक सभ ही पचहारे ॥

Brahma and others have got tired in knowing Thy end;

ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ੍ਵਰ ਕਉਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੇ ॥

बिसन महेस्वर कउन बिचारे ॥

Who are the helpless gods Vishnu and Shiva?

ਚੰਦ ਸੂਰ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥

चंद सूर जिनि करे बिचारा ॥

The sun and moon also meditate on Thee;

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਜਨੀਯਤ ਹੈ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ॥੧੪॥

ता ते जनीयत है करतारा ॥१४॥

Therefore Thou art known as the Creator.14.

Chaubis avtar, Dasam granth

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ਅਥ ਦੇਵੀ ਜੂ ਕੀ ਉਸਤਤ ਕਥਨੰ ॥

Now begins the description in praise of the goddess

Read it carefully. It is a metaphor for akal purakh. So it is not Devi ji ki ustat but ustat of akal purakh.

We read in SGGS ji

Gurmukh sang krishan murari

Krishan murari reasied with gurmukh.

ang 98

So a fool if he wants to pick a fight can very well say that the reference is to hindu god krishna.

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A complete ridiculous theory put forward by randip. There is no section of dasam granth where there is veneration of any hindu gods and Goddesses. We want a refrence.

You have a serious reading problem:

Looks guys, do your own analysis of Dasam Granth. It becomes quite apparent that there are some sections that are penned by the 10th Master, but their are other sections that are not.

There are metaphors in there, and there is no evidence that Guruji believed in multiple armed Goddesses/Gods either.

If you try and mischief make one more time I will report you.

MODS TAKE NOTE

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