Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 133
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Lets start a topic on this. I may do on SPN...you are welcome to join us.

I don't like all the ads on SPN, and most of the users here, like me, are not members. Since we started it here, lets finish it here then you can copy and paste or link it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like all the ads on SPN, and most of the users here, like me, are not members. Since we started it here, lets finish it here then you can copy and paste or link it.

They have some (mod edit) people on sikh philosophy net who are die hard chelas of kaal afghana. Those people will never let you have a good debate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks guys, do your own analysis of Dasam Granth. It becomes quite apparent that there are some sections that are penned by the 10th Master, but their are other sections that are not.

Which are those sections? Kindly put those here as you claim to have read dasam granth.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

This thread is to discuss Guru Gobind Singh Jee's BaaNee.

'Bipran Kee Reet' is the title of a book written by someone else, perhaps a Bipar.

Please refer a Vaak from Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

Balbir Singh

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Balbir Singh,

Your obsession with mangoes is worrying...

"Quote "Can you explain why you believe that Bhai Gurdas' varan should be discarded wholesale?"

"This is an example. Suppose someone knows the taste of a mango. Now whatever he says about mangoes is truth. It does not matter what language he speaks. Even a dumb person's tongue twister will be true.

Some others may have never tasted a mango. They may recite poems remembered about mangoes referring pages with lines, full stops and commas. It is not truth.

Bhai Gurdas Jee's poetry has many flaws."

I think your wisdom will be of more use here:

http://www.fruitforum.net/

Link to post
Share on other sites

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee!

The sehaj living of truthful people is eating a mango when it comes to that.

They do not visit a fruit forum to watch photos of fruits and collecting information about fruits, that also whole life.

Balbir Singh

PS: The topic here is Dasam BaaNee.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What i wrote is correct. you have so called mentors who distort sikh philosophy in their own atheist way. then the moderators back them up. That is not the forum to have -a healthy debate.

Rubbish, you probably couldn't debate there, that's why you are bitter. Looking at your style of "debate" , with finger waving, accusations and plain rudeness, I am not surprised. Gyani ji and Aman ji would have ran circles round such behaviour. :LOL:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rubbish, you probably couldn't debate there, that's why you are bitter. Looking at your style of "debate" , with finger waving, accusations and plain rudeness, I am not surprised. Gyani ji and Aman ji would have ran circles round such behaviour. :LOL:

You can only curse because you are trying not to be truthful. Can you tell us why you are imposing censorship there. You very regularly delete references form AKJ and Damdami taksal sources. You also write refrences from AKJ and DDT sites wil not be allowed.

Your mentors Giani ji and waheguruseekr are staunch followers of kala afghana. You are there to back them up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can only curse because you are trying not to be truthful. Can you tell us why you are imposing censorship there. You very regularly delete references form AKJ and Damdami taksal sources. You also write refrences from AKJ and DDT sites wil not be allowed.

Your mentors Giani ji and waheguruseekr are staunch followers of kala afghana. You are there to back them up.

I don't recall any curses.

Because most of those sources such as Panthic weekly are nothing more than a barage of slanderous insults we don't allow that. We don't want trash like that on our site thanks.

Keep up with the Nindya, thats all you are good for. Face Gyani ji rather than back biting, and lets see what happens.

MOD NOTE: Message to both veer ji's, from now on, please take this back and forth about Sikhphilosophy over PM, as it is off topic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do not believe what he says. Mod's edit: No personal attacks please.

Inder Singh, you are on many different websites under many names promoting Dasam Granth. Why don't you accept challenge to debate in public and show up in Toronto to debate? We can hold a debate here between you and Jeonwala? What do you say? Do you accept or no? Internet debates are very time consuming and people say things which they wouldn't say in public. Why don't you accept deabte and get this over with? You live in california so it won't cost you much. You guys paid for Sukha SIngh's visist to so it wouldn't be a problem for you. Why don't you accept the challenge to debate and win the debate so everyone can stop challenging Dasam Granth? Please?

Also, I feel that debating here is too time consuming. I haven't been able to get much done over the last few days other than post here. Like I said at the start, holding a live debate in public would be the best solution to solve this issue. Internet posts are just internet posts. Also, before trying to promote Dasam Granth, you guys need to decide about Poets SHyam, Raam and Kaal. It is very confusing when one says they are pen names of Guru Ji and other person says they are poets and someone else says they are rishi munis. Please make a separate thread and decide amongst yourselves on who these poet characters are. Then it would be much easier to hold debate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Khalsa Fauji,

I understand what you are trying to say, i wanted to know how do you feel having debate via books? I understand hard copy books requires quite bit of funding but now days we live in day and age where one can easily create a e book- pdf format.

I still think debates via book is best. Video/audio debate will only work with neutral people being moderator catching any personal attacks or off-topics, sort of soccer referee observing everything very closely and whistle for anyone who is breaking the rules of debate.

on a side note: what you think about video debate between inderjit ghagha vs kulbir singh? did u like the settings? the tones from both parties? was it one sided? any off-topics you noticed?

The setting for that debate was alright but no one said anything bad about each other in the debate. I wasn't there so I can't comment on what went on before the debate. I also linked Jeonwala debate with Jathedar Iqbal Singh of Takht Patnaa Sahib. That debate was also alright. Jeonwala and Hari Singh debate went on properly until the end. Regarding the Ghagga and Kulbir Singh debate, that isn't the whole debate. I am not sure how long the katha guy will take to prepare but our side is always ready to have sambaad.

Like we have seen here, many people don't understand the core philosophies of Gurmat such as description of God and things like that. Some guys just keep copy pasting from other places which makes it easy for the copy paster but takes the whole time out of the responder. I haven't been able to sit with my family because of answering people's questions here. I also made a thread for Pro Dasam Granth side to decide on who Poet Shyam, Raam and Kaal are. That is also something the pro Dasam Granth side needs to decide. Another thing to decide is, is whole Dasam Granth work of one writer or several? This is important because if there is only 1 writer, then anything that is again Gurmat will reject the whole granth because Guru Gobind SIngh Ji wouldn't write anything which would prove to be anti-Gurmat or anti-history. Once we have this information, we can create a setting for debate in the Toronto if the Pro Dasam Granth side wants to debate with me. If they want to debate with Jeonwala or Prof. Darshan SIngh or someone else, then they can decide with the respective party. However, option outside of GTA seems invalid because of what Hari Singh Randhwara did. Jeonwala left his work to go debate and didn't work for almost a whole week. He drives truck so imagine the money he lost. He also paid for flight to New York. Prof. Darshan SIngh was in same situation because he also paid for flight but Hari Singh Randhawa did moke maar. Prof. Darshan Singh had also just gotten out of hospital after ear surgeries. He left his rest to have discussion so at least some conclusion could be reached but what Hari Singh Randhawa did was very disgraceful and unacceptable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Khalsa Fauji,

Can you also comment on question below:

how do you feel having debate via books? I understand hard copy books requires quite bit of funding but now days we live in day and age where one can easily create a e book- pdf format.
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Khalsa Fauji,

Can you also comment on question below:

Books take years to write. How long do we want to drag issues for? There are already new issues popping up and old ones aren't close to being fixed. Books can be used for education and learning but live discussion is the best. I say get all the pro and anti-DG scholars in one place and let them debate until their is solution. If it takes 5 or 10 or 50 or 100 days, let them keep going at it until it is done and there is a conclusion. Books will take another 30 years to even get close to a solution. It is hard for me to digest the situation as is, 30 years is too much.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Books take years to write. How long do we want to drag issues for? There are already new issues popping up and old ones aren't close to being fixed. Books can be used for education and learning but live discussion is the best. I say get all the pro and anti-DG scholars in one place and let them debate until their is solution. If it takes 5 or 10 or 50 or 100 days, let them keep going at it until it is done and there is a conclusion. Books will take another 30 years to even get close to a solution. It is hard for me to digest the situation as is, 30 years is too much.

Debate for what? We consider that whole of Dasam Granth is work of dashmesh pita. Why should we have debate on this. This is embedded in sikh psyche right from the time it was written. Rehtanama do support its bani.

There is no debate on this. Jeonwala is exposed in the debate with hari singh randhawewale.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Debate for what? We consider that whole of Dasam Granth is work of dashmesh pita. Why should we have debate on this. This is embedded in sikh psyche right from the time it was written. Rehtanama do support its bani.

There is no debate on this. Jeonwala is exposed in the debate with hari singh randhawewale.

That was a different topic and host never gave Jeonwala enough time to talk.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That topic was Gurmat based. Gurcharan jeonwala is expert of everything?

Another debate video of same topics between them

http://www.sikhclips.com/view_video.php?vi...507cacd8e2f2aef

You keep linking the meat debate. What are you on about? Isn't that off topic? Apnee baar nu bohat rondaa ke 'off topic' 'off topic'.

Like I said, Hari Singh Randhwara had no sack to even sit to debate with Jeonwala. At least Jeonwala had sack to debate about topic suggested by Hari Singh. Also, the TV host is the biggest pakhandi ever. I have seen him and met him many times. He gets funds from baba chelas so he would never let anyone have proper debate. Proper debate can only be held by having a setting where there is no host or the host isn't biased or we can have debate long enough so the bias can't kick in.

Hari Singh often comes to Malton in the summer. Could N30 contact him and ask him if he agrees to debate? He said Jeonwala isn't his level which is true because Jeonwala does kirat kmaaee while Hari SIngh lives on rotis of others.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Khalsa Fauji,

Can you also comment on question below:

I agree with Khalsa Fauji about the Live Debate. Your so called ‘scholars’ can write whatever they want in any book, fill pages & pages but who is going to read it. Not the general public. However, with the live debate, everybody is glued into the discussion and there are no excuses like Mr. Lamba. I had posted a question to the Pro Dasam Granth lobby to explain why the Dasam Granth ranges in various versions from 500 pages to over 1,400 pages today. This so called book debate has something to do with that and here is how. There are old versions of this Dasam Granth, in hard copy that were missing the Mukhvaak Patshahi 10 on various stanzas. When those were questioned by Sikh Scholars, the newer versions started showing up with Mukhvaak Patshahi 10 heading. Every time some verses are questioned, more are added on to support the ones in question. This is a clever move by Pro Dasam Granth lobby to prevent a neutral Sikh from even debating on this issue. SO a book debate would simply lead to more ‘Dasam Patshah Bani’ being ‘Created’ and added to ‘Newer versions of Dasam Granth’, whenever a question is raised.

We have a complete analysis of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji done in the simplest language by Prof. Sahib Singh ji. But I don’t think even 10% of the people claiming to be Sikhs have actually read it. Because if they had, they would have immediately recognized any pornographic writings outside of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as Anti Gurmat and would have challenged it right away. By writing books, all we will end up doing will beto simply postpone the face to face discussion that eventually has to happen to decide the fate of Dasam Granth.

If you feel that your guy is a scholar on Dasam Granth, then let him write the book but he should NOT shy away from a Live debate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...