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Paranoia from Panthic Weekly and Nihang Niddar Singh's book


ipledgeblue

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I know a lot of people who disagree and openly criticise the Taksal (and rightly so), yet I do not see venomous campaigns against them?

Could you post the link where Nidar Singh started saying bad things about Taksal too?

no, cos you know where it is.

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I think the question asked was whether the Gurus studied the Koran. The answer for which I gave is no. Was the Koran studied around the bungas of Durbar Sahib, methinks it's highly unlikely. What does Rumi have to do with the discussion?

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To give a point blank answer of NO regarding the Gurus studying and therefore having in depth knowledge of a faith which ruled their homeland is pure stupidity (with a ll due respect).

It is clear that they studied and were familiar with all the Indian philosophies, so why not the Koran? For Guru Nanak Dev Ji to debate with endless Mullas in Arabia, would they have not have knowledge of the Koran.

To say I don't know, would have been a sensible answer, to say a categoric no with zero evidence or basis is foolish.

Even in terms of Raj Niti which we knew our Gurus told us to study knowledge of the source of the rulers Sharia would have been common in my opinion.

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A small quantity of poetry was sent by S. Kartar Singh to S.S. Khazan Singh and these contain a statement by one Rukan Din about “Nanak Fakir”. This statement, which The Sikh Review had got independently translated gives a portrayal of the Guru that is strikingly in keeping with his popular historical image. As per Professor Masoumi’s translation, the statement reads :

“He acquired different sciences. In particular he acquired proficiency in Islamic lore, the interpretation of the Holy Quran, the knowledge of religious cults and Arabic and Persian literature. He made remarkable headway in these. He carried on a struggle to end oppression and repression that prevailed in different countries. He raised the banner of justice and destroyed untruth and hypocrisyl; so long as the weak did not obtain their right he stood by them and regarded the powerful who lost their head in their arrogance as dastardly. He was the best specimen of piety and hunger for travel.”

The author of this statement, quite obviously knew Guru Nanak intimately. In fact a statement in Arabic, ostensibly by Guru Nanak, which was printed with its translation as part of the Oct. 1969 article indicates that Guru Nanak and Rukun Din left Baghdad for Hindustan together.

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Thanks for that Amardeep - some here will prove what you quote to be propoganda, how, because they so!

Anyone with 2 brain cells knows that the sheer amount of vocabulary taken from Islamic tradition (inc the Koran) and used in Gurbani (Aad and Dasam) would not have been used light heartedly. An in-depth knowledge of the true and correct meanings of this terminology, inc names to describe Gods unlimited attributes in Jaap Sahib, would have been a pre-requisite.

I doubt very much there will be a retraction in opinion, so I look forward to seeing the next self-opinionated 'debunking'.

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Didn't Guru Nanak Dev Jee study in a Madrassa as a child? How else would he have learnt Farsi? In today's world as we no longer have to go to religious schools in order to learn, but back then education was in the hands of the Mullas and Pandits. If he studied in a Madrassa then he would have also have studied the Quran. As a child he also learnt Sanskrit from a Pandit.

It's just like in today's Punjab, the best schools are run by the Christians and Arya Samajis, so Sikh perents who can afford to will prefer to send their children to a school run by Christians or Arya Samajis

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I think the question asked was whether the Gurus studied the Koran. The answer for which I gave is no. Was the Koran studied around the bungas of Durbar Sahib, methinks it's highly unlikely. What does Rumi have to do with the discussion?

*shakes head in despair*

I think you should read your own foot note.

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Didn't Guru Nanak Dev Jee study in a Madrassa as a child? How else would he have learnt Farsi? In today's world as we no longer have to go to religious schools in order to learn, but back then education was in the hands of the Mullas and Pandits. If he studied in a Madrassa then he would have also have studied the Quran. As a child he also learnt Sanskrit from a Pandit.

It's just like in today's Punjab, the best schools are run by the Christians and Arya Samajis, so Sikh perents who can afford to will prefer to send their children to a school run by Christians or Arya Samajis

Exactly.

Nanak had various academic teachers such as Mullahs and Pandits from which he learned Urdu, Arabic, Sanskrit and other languages. These schools no doubt taught them about the Koran and the Vedas.

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Exactly.

Nanak had various academic teachers such as Mullahs and Pandits from which he learned Urdu, Arabic, Sanskrit and other languages. These schools no doubt taught them about the Koran and the Vedas.

isnt there a sakhi where Guru Nanak goes to school, but the mullahs and pandits call his father to say that they are unable to teach him anything as he already knows the subject, but yet was asking questions that the teachers were unable to answer?

I dont beleive that anyone could have taught Guru Ji anything. I believe that Guru Ji was blessed with all knowledge from Waheguru. If Guru ji needed to learn this vidya, then would Guru HarKrishan be able to get Chhajju to recite sanskrit scripts ?

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Some people here need to look up the word Antarjami. Studying something imples that one has no knowledge of a subject and studies it in order to gain undertanding and knowledge of that subject.

As for Panth Parkash, did Guru Nanak teach the Muslims that it's ok to take slaves in war, or that women captured in war can be used as sex slaves? Did Guru Nanak also state that Mohammed is the final prophet as well? Compare this with the Babar Vani and how Guru Nanak feels the pain of the common people caught up in a war.

We had already had this discussion on the Guru Ki Maseet thread. Would the Gurus actively promote a religion that is in direct contradiction to their own?

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page 49

Couplet: Wherever he travelled, to the countries of Hindus or those of Muslims, he preached, that what rightfully belongs to others is like ‘cow’s meat to one and pig’s meat to the other.’(55).

Quatrain: On these lines he preached the truth and made both follow it. He read the Koran to Muslims and the Vedas to the Hindus and revealed their truths to both.(56).

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The rest of the Gurus certainly studied, as to whether Guru Nanak Dev Ji studied, its irrelevant - the point is that they had vidya of all the faiths/schools - which they used in parchaar/debate (as was done in puratan Sampryadai and is (was) done by top parchaaraks today i.e. Sant Singh Maskeen).

There is a difference between promoting a faith and taking what is good from it to educate and provide a platform to introduce/explain Gurmat.

Sant Singh Maskeen Ji regularly quoted from Sufi poetry to drive the Gurmat message home - this is what made his parchaar a head above others - the usgae of numerous examples from other mats - which provided further colour to the already sublime Gurbani.

Guru Sahiban were fully aware of Islamic source and thought - get over it.

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I have a book from Sant Maskeen ji at home.. i dont think he covers a single subject in the book without making refference to some sufi poet. my sunni neighbour who's an islamic author of various books says he has lots of respect for Maskeen ji for this reason, as its easier to understand new subjects when you use familiar sources etc... a good way of preaching he says..

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I have a book from Sant Maskeen ji at home.. i dont think he covers a single subject in the book without making refference to some sufi poet. my sunni neighbour who's an islamic author of various books says he has lots of respect for Maskeen ji for this reason, as its easier to understand new subjects when you use familiar sources etc... a good way of preaching he says..

Some nice points by Shaheediyan and Amardeep.

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Shaheediyan,

Where did I say that Guru Nanak or the other Gurus were not aware of Islamic thought? There is a difference between being antarjami and thus having prior knowledge of everything and having to study the Quran under the supervision of a Mullah.

As for the use of Quranic or Sufi verses/terms to preach Gurmat, this is a method best used in areas where the predominant culture is Islamic such as in Western Punjab before partition. The maximum use of this style of teaching was by Sewapanthis who lived and preached in such an area. Sewapanthis were virtually unknown in Eastern Punjab where the common culture was more Sikh and Hindu. This type of preaching would have been thought as being very novel in Eastern Punjab whereas it would have been the norm in Western Punjab. This is in line with the way the Gurus preached and where it is possible to see where a particular Shabad would have been first sung and to what audience.

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Some good points, tony.

A former Muslim was showing me verses from the Quran that are used in Black Magic - to cause pain and suffering on people you dont like. He also pointed out that the vast majority of black magic practitioners are Muslim (check the back pages of any desi newspaper).

Makes you think.......

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