shaheediyan Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 "like the udasis they started off with very honourable intention" Like dishonourably removing Sri Dasam Granth Sahib from Akal Takht....? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 come on!!! the first acts ie removng mahants from guyrdwaras in the 1920 was a good start. and even in the 30s and 40s they did a lot of parchaar especailly to the lower castes. me agree wiv you that the removal of Sahib Sri Dasam Granth was a very bad move. but plz dont claim they were bad to start off wiv. your chatanga 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 the SGPC bankrupt? Where did you hear that? First I have heard of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Not to mention the removal of Bhai Mardanas kul and most of our kirtan heritage/vidya... Removal of Guru's saaj, which coincidentally happened after they gratefully accepted the gift of goldern vaaja from their British buddies... I am not saying that some of them did not have good intentions, just pointing out, they made many fatal errors from day 1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 More to the point, why not discuss, using examples, what benefit the Udasin and SGPC provide to the Panth today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Ok, I'm just curious, alot of people on this forum say the SGPC were buddies with the British and similar comments. But if you read SGPC history you see how the British imprisoned the early Akalis. The British were actually with the Mahants not the Akalis who formed the SGPC. Yet why do some still insist on trying to change history here? Even my Bujurg who were Akalis were imprisoned and beaten by the British. Something just doesn't add up here. Reading about the early Akalis and how they would get beaten to a pulp yet still do simran is an inspiration for all. Even Gandhi had to say words of praise for the Akalis after hearing about them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I don't think its the Akalis per se, rather those early members of the Committee that was set up by British India Govt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 It's not that simple Mithar. A marriage always has its ups and downs. Inter-sikh relations were very complicated - the only place they stand clear in my opinion is the relationship that the original Namdharis and Akali/Nihangs had with the British i.e. no marriage at all. Other than that, look into all the original SGPC, Singh Sabhiya, decision making academics, historians and even many Sants - and see how many of them had good jobs with the British. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 It depends on what your views of Sikhi are. If you believe that a Sikh can be anyone without regard to rehat then you would not view idols at Hramandir Sahib as being a deviation from the Sikhi of the Gurus. You would also have no qualms about worshiping a human 'guru' or even visiting maarhis or khankahs. If you feel that Sikhi is a separate religion and that the Gurus left a set of distinct religious beliefs and that Guru Gobind Singh left a rehat for all Sikhs to follow or at least aspire to. Then for you idols and Sikhs visiting maarhis show that Sikhs are not following Sikhi of the Gurus but their own whims. Then you would want to remove the idols and do parchar to these misled Sikhs. The former is the Sanatan mindset and the latter the Singh Sabha mindset. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Could it be that due to deviations and innovations just as most of the current Udasins are not as the original Udasins of the Guru period, similarly the current SGPC/Akalis are not like the early Akalis of the Gurdwara Sudhar Leher. I know coming from an Akali backgroud, the original Akalis would never tolerate the kind of stuff that is going on in our Panth right now. People like Jagir Kaur, Badal or his beard tying son would never even be considered for junior memership if the original Akalis were alive. Nothing wrong with tying a beard or putting gel on it or trimming it if that is what you like doing, but the original Akalis would not tolerate it amongst their ranks. Now if you go to Punjab, it is very common for drinkers, beard trimmers being a part of the Akali Dal. It is no longer a puritanical Sikh political party that serves Sikh interests. Even the Badals have said that Akali Dal is not a Sikh party but a Punjabi party. This happens to many organisation and groups. They originally start off well, but as time goes by it starts to get corrupted when selfish types enter their ranks. This is what happened to the Sikh militants during the 80s as well. The original were in it for ideological reasons, but as the original ones died off the newer recruits (1988-1989 period) began joining less for ideological reasons and more for personal reasons. Many times these later recruits did not act in accordance with Gurmat giving the entire movement a bad name. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 shaheediyan, Bhai Mardana's kul left for pakistan in 1947. the ban on non-sikhs performing kirtan came into effect after that didnt it? or am i wrong , but im sure i read that Kirtanis came from pakistan to do kirtan once a year or summat until 1965. ish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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