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The above means that we sikhs have not been able to raed this granth so far because of its difficult language. We need a department in Punjabi university that should teach our children Braj bhasha so that we find the treasures of Dasam granth ji.

I agree with you. Braj Basha should be studied and learnt by all premis of Dasam Bani. I wish there was some online website where I would learn this beautiful language, but I cannot find any. I went to India and couldn't find any books on this subject either. You can find books teaching all sorts of languages, but not Braj Basha. If anyone knows of any book please share it with the sangat.

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I agree with you. Braj Basha should be studied and learnt by all premis of Dasam Bani. I wish there was some online website where I would learn this beautiful language, but I cannot find any. I went to India and couldn't find any books on this subject either. You can find books teaching all sorts of languages, but not Braj Basha. If anyone knows of any book please share it with the sangat.

Mithar ji

Sikh leader Simranjit singh Mann is well read person who has studied sikh scriptures and Sikh history. When he was a member of Indian parliament he spoke in the parliament and asked Govt to institute a chair on study of Braj bhasha so that sikhs could understand Dasam granth. I will post the video link if i am able to locate it.

I will also post information about your query if i come across someone who has idea about this.

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I agree with you. Braj Basha should be studied and learnt by all premis of Dasam Bani. I wish there was some online website where I would learn this beautiful language, but I cannot find any. I went to India and couldn't find any books on this subject either. You can find books teaching all sorts of languages, but not Braj Basha. If anyone knows of any book please share it with the sangat.

Rupert Snell's The Hindi Classical Reader: A Braj Bhasa Reader was the one an SOAS guy recommended. I think you can find some of it for free at google books.

Buy it here or directly from SOAS:

http://www.routledge.com/shopping_cart/pro...ent_id=&pc=

Enjoy,

K.

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Rupert Snell's The Hindi Classical Reader: A Braj Bhasa Reader was the one an SOAS guy recommended. I think you can find it for free at google books.

Enjoy,

K.

Kalyug ji

Your posts make a lot of sense. Are you Bahadar singh who once participated on sikhe.com a few years back.

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Kalyug ji

Your posts make a lot of sense. Are you Bahadar singh who once participated on sikhe.com a few years back.

Fateh!

Nope. I think that the Bahadur Singh on sikhe.com was Fransisco Jose Luis who converted to Islam and now uses the name Ishraqi on this forum (see my sig for the list of his other names).

Regards,

K.

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Note Dasam Granth is not one work like Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but a compilation of of writings recovered after the sacking of Anandpur Sahib. Many were lost.

Dasam granth was compiled in 1697 and 1698 by Guru ji. There are these two birs which were looted during sack of Anandpur sahib. These two birs were sold by looters to sikhs at a later date.

1)The birs are called Anandpuri or hazoori bir

This beer is held by a private party and location is secret. It was in Bombay and most probably in Punjab these days. There are a few Gursikhs who have been able to make digitized copies of this beer.

2) Patna bir

This is available at takhat sri patna sahib. Charles wilkinson was Englishman who made a trip to Patna sahib sometime in eighteenth century arount 1783 and wrote " Seeks and their college". He wrote what he saw at patna sahib Takhat. He makes mention of two granths in parkash at patna sahib.

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Guru sahib was well versed in persian. There are many persian verses in dasam granth. Zafarnama and hikayats are in persian.

I think that was the point.

Up until then, The Tenth Master had been presented to the Mughal Court as uncouth and barbaric.

Zafarnama was a revelation. Here was an "uncouth barbarian" who had better command of the written Persian language than people in his court.

The language itself is very subtle and precise. You can say what you want to very succinctly. Major differences between similar sounding words.

Can you imagine going to say the deepest outback in Australia and meeting an Aboriginee who knows Gurmukhi inside out, perfectly. That would have been the exact same effect on the Mughal Court.

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"Up until then, The Tenth Master had been presented to the Mughal Court as uncouth and barbaric."

Sorry, but that is completely wrong. Read up on the interaction and relationships between Gurus dargah and the Mughal administration - the Gurus darbar and the culture there in was not unknown to the Mughal Raj.

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Sorry, but that is completely wrong. Read up on the interaction and relationships between Gurus dargah and the Mughal administration - the Gurus darbar and the culture there in was not unknown to the Mughal Raj.

True, there was interaction between the Gurus and Mughal raj since the time of Guru Amardas ji and Akbar.

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"Up until then, The Tenth Master had been presented to the Mughal Court as uncouth and barbaric."

Sorry, but that is completely wrong. Read up on the interaction and relationships between Gurus dargah and the Mughal administration - the Gurus darbar and the culture there in was not unknown to the Mughal Raj.

That is your opinion and I think you are completely wrong. :rolleyes:

Non-Muslims were seen as second class, and uncouth and barbaric, just because they knew of them does not mean they were not seen as backward and barbaric. The Chinese do business with Islamic countries yet repress the Muslim in their country with force.

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Any one interested in the subject should read "The Darbar Of The Sikh Gurus" by Louis E. Fenech.

A very insightful read.

If I were you I would read Jagjit Singh's sharp rebuttal of many of Feneches theories.

Especially that of who brought the martial spirit into Sikhism.

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If I were you I would read Jagjit Singh's sharp rebuttal of many of Feneches theories.

Especially that of who brought the martial spirit into Sikhism.

Moghals knew the writings of sikh gurus and also the depth of Bhai gurdas ji.

Who is jagjit singh. Was he the buddy of Daljit singh

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"If I were you I would read Jagjit Singh's sharp rebuttal of many of Feneches theories."

Veera, I am not talking about Fenechs theories, I am talking about the historical sources (many 1st hand accounts) he has identified and quoted from.

Instead of reading about rebuttals, just read the book.

Ahmed Shah Abdali and his entourage may certainly have known little about Sikh Culture and thought of Sikhs as barbaric, but to say the same of the Mughals is silly.

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"If I were you I would read Jagjit Singh's sharp rebuttal of many of Feneches theories."

Veera, I am not talking about Fenechs theories, I am talking about the historical sources (many 1st hand accounts) he has identified and quoted from.

Instead of reading about rebuttals, just read the book.

Ahmed Shah Abdali and his entourage may certainly have known little about Sikh Culture and thought of Sikhs as barbaric, but to say the same of the Mughals is silly.

I think we are talking at cross purposes. Points to consider:

1) What was the state of the non-Muslim at that (and I emphasise that) period of time?

2) Ok they knew of the Guru's, even spoke to the Guru's, but what did they think of the Guru's (at that time)?

Read for yourselves and draw your own conclusions. All my reading has lead me to believe that the Mughals (at that time [not the time of Akhbar]), thought little of non-Muslims.

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