How I Got Muscular And Big!

[Kaljug]

I have been told that oily fish is good for arthritis.

Yes, krill oil is also a great source of quality fish oils, if you don't like fish. Cissus is good for arthritis as well (I take it for the creaky old-man knees I have from squatting too much), as long as you get it from a good source.

Fish oils get in the way of arachidonic acid doing its job though, that's why they are avoided when using the supp.

K.

[randip singh]

Yes, krill oil is also a great source of quality fish oils, if you don't like fish. Cissus is good for arthritis as well (I take it for the creaky old-man knees I have from squatting too much), as long as you get it from a good source.

Fish oils get in the way of arachidonic acid doing its job though, that's why they are avoided when using the supp.

K.

To be honest, I tend to shy away from supplements. At most I may take vit c, iron etc.

I tend not to take supplements as few mates of mine have had problems. Just my view and my experience others may feel differently.

One thing I do know is that Cod Liver oil is probably the nasty most horrible thing ever to have been devised by man or beast.

[Matheen]

It's not fish oils per se that relieve the inflammation - it's EPA Omega 3 fatty acids, which you can get from quite a few nuts and seeds as well.

Traditional wrestling training is very hard on the knees and other jooints, which is why they eat so many almonds and use a lot of desi ghee in their cooking. Haldi is also used extensively - it's one of the greatest anti -inflammatories around and even protects against Alzheimer's disease.

Ref: (1)Davidson MH, Maki KC, Kalkowski J, Schaefer EJ, Torri SA, Drennan KB. Effects of docosahexeaenoic acid on serum lipoproteins in patients with combined hyperlipidemia. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. J Am Coll Nutr. 1997;16:3:236-243.

(2) BBC

(3) Desi Nihang veyd, lol.

[randip singh]

It's not fish oils per se that relieve the inflammation - it's EPA Omega 3 fatty acids, which you can get from quite a few nuts and seeds as well.

Traditional wrestling training is very hard on the knees and other jooints, which is why they eat so many almonds and use a lot of desi ghee in their cooking. Haldi is also used extensively - it's one of the greatest anti -inflammatories around and even protects against Alzheimer's disease.

Ref: (1)Davidson MH, Maki KC, Kalkowski J, Schaefer EJ, Torri SA, Drennan KB. Effects of docosahexeaenoic acid on serum lipoproteins in patients with combined hyperlipidemia. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. J Am Coll Nutr. 1997;16:3:236-243.

(2) BBC

(3) Desi Nihang veyd, lol.

err yes...eat loads of plant ovums and see if it relives your arthritis.

[shaheediyan]

Sukha/Shaheedi Degh were the single most important and standardised parts of the Nihang diet as per old traditions.

As Matheen mentions, traditional Pehlvaani/Kushti akharai in India still swear by the same core ingredients used in degh i.e. full fat milk, almonds, ghee etc..

There are many traditional vegetarian akharas which sill exist all over India, although some allow eggs (as per Randip Singhs preferance).

So personally I don't think meat based diet makes such a big difference if ones goal is increasing strength or fighting skill.

Specifically for Singhs (of old) body mass was an irrelevant issue, anyone who has had any serious Yudh Vidya training from any real school knows that the success lies in footwork, understanding physiology, speed, accuracy, flexibility and serious practice with and understanding of weapons.

Of course strength is a bonus, but is most definately on the lower end of requirements. In Kushti however, mass and strength def move up the list of priorities.

Pics/photos of Nihangs of old all show them to be very lean (some would say skinny). But due to the combination of their Deg, Shastar Vidya, Bir Ras Baniyan, Shaheediyan Pareya Ithihaas - it was the psychology of the Nihangs that made them such a superhuman adversary - one that stuck the fear of God into their enemies hearts. One can see this 'nature' simply by looking into the eyes of these old pics of Nihangs. This 'nature' I also saw in the eyes of some present day Nihangs and Hazuri Singhs when I was in India last year...

[Kaljug]

To be honest, I tend to shy away from supplements. At most I may take vit c, iron etc.

I tend not to take supplements as few mates of mine have had problems. Just my view and my experience others may feel differently.

One thing I do know is that Cod Liver oil is probably the nasty most horrible thing ever to have been devised by man or beast.

I have a couple of friends who work in the supplement industry who throw a few treats my way from time to time, and I'm interested in anything that improves my performance in competition matches. But yeah, a lot of supps are either completely useless or they can have nasty effects if you don't know what you are doing. There was an idiot kid in my gym who wanted to look like the incredible hulk in time for his summer holiday. He progressed very quickly then came in one day with yellow eyes (a sign of jaundice). It turns out that he'd been taking an OTC designer steroid for a few months without having realised what he was ingesting. The only mass he kept from his short burst of training was probably from the extra weight of the tumours in his liver.

By the way, what the hell's wrong with plant ova?

K.

[Kaljug]

It's not fish oils per se that relieve the inflammation - it's EPA Omega 3 fatty acids, which you can get from quite a few nuts and seeds as well.

Traditional wrestling training is very hard on the knees and other jooints, which is why they eat so many almonds and use a lot of desi ghee in their cooking. Haldi is also used extensively - it's one of the greatest anti -inflammatories around and even protects against Alzheimer's disease.

Ref: (1)Davidson MH, Maki KC, Kalkowski J, Schaefer EJ, Torri SA, Drennan KB. Effects of docosahexeaenoic acid on serum lipoproteins in patients with combined hyperlipidemia. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. J Am Coll Nutr. 1997;16:3:236-243.

(2) BBC

(3) Desi Nihang veyd, lol.

True, you can get omega oils from veg sources as well.

My mum still sends me 5kg bags of almonds evey month. :-D

K.

[randip singh]

I have a couple of friends who work in the supplement industry who throw a few treats my way from time to time, and I'm interested in anything that improves my performance in competition matches. But yeah, a lot of supps are either completely useless or they can have nasty effects if you don't know what you are doing. There was an idiot kid in my gym who wanted to look like the incredible hulk in time for his summer holiday. He progressed very quickly then came in one day with yellow eyes (a sign of jaundice). It turns out that he'd been taking an OTC designer steroid for a few months without having realised what he was ingesting. The only mass he kept from his short burst of training was probably from the extra weight of the tumours in his liver.

By the way, what the hell's wrong with plant ova?

K.

Yes, that can be the problem with supplements.

Nothing wrong with plant ova, but there seems to be an acute paranoia about any animal based products. Ok being vegetarian is one thing because you believe that, but knocking any meat/egg based products and claiming vege ones are superior smacks of acute paranoia. I believe in a balanced diet, do what suits YOUR body. Not becoming so paranoid about one type of diet. I have shared what made me strong and big, yet it is constantly knocked by someone who thinks the vegetarian diet is superior.

There is a hell of a lot information I could share on diet that I have acquired over 25 years from doctors and nutritionist, and people who have won powerlifting, boxing, martial arts and bodybuilding competitions....but I will not, because it will seem I am being pro-meat. I also don't want to blow my own trumpet, but I do come accross a lot of kids and know it alls all the time in the gym. I want people to do their research and not be blinkered. You dismiss certain things from your diet you have to make it up another way. Supplements alone will not give you the results you want unless you have a good balanced diet>>>that is the foundation. A good balanced diet is for life.

[randip singh]

Sukha/Shaheedi Degh were the single most important and standardised parts of the Nihang diet as per old traditions.

As Matheen mentions, traditional Pehlvaani/Kushti akharai in India still swear by the same core ingredients used in degh i.e. full fat milk, almonds, ghee etc..

There are many traditional vegetarian akharas which sill exist all over India, although some allow eggs (as per Randip Singhs preferance).

So personally I don't think meat based diet makes such a big difference if ones goal is increasing strength or fighting skill.

Specifically for Singhs (of old) body mass was an irrelevant issue, anyone who has had any serious Yudh Vidya training from any real school knows that the success lies in footwork, understanding physiology, speed, accuracy, flexibility and serious practice with and understanding of weapons.

Of course strength is a bonus, but is most definately on the lower end of requirements. In Kushti however, mass and strength def move up the list of priorities.

Pics/photos of Nihangs of old all show them to be very lean (some would say skinny). But due to the combination of their Deg, Shastar Vidya, Bir Ras Baniyan, Shaheediyan Pareya Ithihaas - it was the psychology of the Nihangs that made them such a superhuman adversary - one that stuck the fear of God into their enemies hearts. One can see this 'nature' simply by looking into the eyes of these old pics of Nihangs. This 'nature' I also saw in the eyes of some present day Nihangs and Hazuri Singhs when I was in India last year...

Nihungs had classic martial artist type bodies. Bodies of knotted steel as I call them. I will give my example, I do not carry a lot of mass now, but I have incredible strength, and that is down to my diet.

Note that the 2nd master encouraged wrestling and even built a wrestling arena. I have tried that badam, full fat milk diet, it such made me fat and sluggish. Its good for working in the fields all day, but not good for training at all. Ghee, a definitely no no.

Diet makes a huge difference to strength, but NOT to skill. Skill comes with practice.

[shaheediyan]

Actually, the badaam, milk and ghee diet is the staple of all kushti/pehlvani akaaras in India, it has been for over 2,000 years.

They seem to not only cope alright, but positively thrive on it. And they train all day, everyday - starting from 4am.

The Nihangs of the old were full time Nihangs, not like many of todays PT or seasonal Nihangs who have to support themselves doing kethi or whatever else for part of the year. So along with this diet, they also trained (fighting) and did seva all day long.

And I agree, they had classical martial arts body types - many of whom were pretty light/thin, but extremely strong.

This body type or strentgh level was not the goal or objective as is with many people today (be it body or strength builders) the body type was simply a natural outcome of their lifestyle - which for a Singh - consisted of training with a plethora of weapons.

Today in Indian we even have the same problem with pehlvani akaaras, you get western influenced youth going to the gyms rather than training in traditional methods with traditional Gurdevs, eating all types of nonsense food. These same body obsessed students fail miserably against the traditionally trained students, who are way more flexible, optimally conditioned through age old resistance training and have perfect bodies for their tradition - honed through diets and training methods which have been honed for thousands of years.

Its the same difference you see today in other traditions, be it martial arts or classical music, those trained in the old methods are on a different level to modern day, media influenced, short cut specialists...

I suppose you can I am a traditionalist!

As for ghee, well there has apparently been much research done in this field proving that ghee and modern day refined cooking oils are worlds apart in terms of the affect they have on health.

Ishwar Singh, if you are reading this, could you try and get the info from our 'ghee' expert brother!

Cheers.

[Matheen]

Ishwar Singh, if you are reading this, could you try and get the info from our 'ghee' expert brother!

Cheers.

Desi ghee has alot of positive effects - and is considered the most 'sattvic' of foods, but you MUST look at your lifestyle before designing a diet plan. There's no point eating a pehlwan's diet if you're going to be sat at a desk all day and then train a bit later on.

According to Ayurved / desi medicine, the 5 elements that make up our body must be kept in balance. Certain activities use up certain elements, and this is reflected in the different diet recommendations for different occupations.

[Kaljug]

Randip Singh:

Singh, in this thread you were the one claiming that animal based products are superior, the others here were just saying that you can obtain similar results with veg products and then Matheen provided you with a study which found that whey protein was the ideal form of protein for building lean muscle.

I have no problem with meat, and I think it is quite clear from historical sources that Singhs have hunted and consumed flesh up until modern times. I have hunted animals, and I have eaten meat. These days however, I wouldn't eat meat unless I could raise the animals and chatka them myself so that I know for certain that they have had a good life before I bring it to an end, and that they are killed with as much compassion and respect as possible (I'm soft-hearted that way). On the other hand, I fully respect those Gursikhs who abide by the rules on eating meat given to them by their Panj Piaray, because they are following a lifestyle which is better suited to spiritual pursuits.

I've been training for the last several years, I squat almost 3 times as much as you, deadlift almost 3 times as much as you, and can still bench 1.5 times more than you on a good day despite having torn my shoulder about 18 months ago. Yet I don't really train purely for strength because the extras mass just slows me down, and I don't eat meat. That doesn't mean that a veg diet is superior, it's just that I have found what works for me within my self-imposed diet restrictions through a long process of trial and error.

Arachidonic acid is not necessary to have a balanced diet, it's just an interesting compound that can have an effect on lean muscle mass and strength. I use supps sometime to break through training plateaus or simply out of curiosity, but yes, supplements should be a supplement to a good diet and training routine, not the foundation.

Anyway, I hope you continue to share your research and training methods. I look forward to learning from your experience and from hearing from other Singhs who also train.

Regards,

K.

[shaheediyan]

"

Desi ghee has alot of positive effects - and is considered the most 'sattvic' of foods, but you MUST look at your lifestyle before designing a diet plan. There's no point eating a pehlwan's diet if you're going to be sat at a desk all day and then train a bit later on.

According to Ayurved / desi medicine, the 5 elements that make up our body must be kept in balance. Certain activities use up certain elements, and this is reflected in the different diet recommendations for different occupations."

100% correct. So the aim is to 'adjust' intake/portions, not to eliminate them.

[randip singh]

Randip Singh:

Singh, in this thread you were the one claiming that animal based products are superior, the others here were just saying that you can obtain similar results with veg products and then Matheen provided you with a study which found that whey protein was the ideal form of protein for building lean muscle.

Point 1 Mate - am not having a dig at you. Just one person.

Point 2 - I am claiming nothing. Just sharing 25 years exerince of having a Vegan, Vegetarian, Meatatarian, Piscatarian, Polotarian diets that I have had and this is the one that has worked the best for me.

Point 3 - I can place studies here that rubbish those claims, but I won't.

Point 4 - Do your own research but don't be blinkered.

Best Wishes

I've been training for the last several years, I squat almost 3 times as much as you, deadlift almost 3 times as much as you, and can still bench 1.5 times more than you on a good day despite having torn my shoulder about 18 months ago. Yet I don't really train purely for strength because the extras mass just slows me down, and I don't eat meat. That doesn't mean that a veg diet is superior, it's just that I have found what works for me within my self-imposed diet restrictions through a long process of trial and error.

Come on man check your ego in at the door. I am not playing.

If I shared with you guys how much I lifted at 21 I would make most guys look stupid, so let's not play that game.

Trust me, come your 40's you would be pretty stupid lifting weights that heavy.

Saying that, you are pretty strong, and whatever you are doing, you are doing correctly. Just watch the back and knees. Mine play up to buggery, and I had at 35 a dibitating case of sciatica that started when i was gardening.

[Matheen]

If I shared with you guys how much I lifted at 21 I would make most guys look stupid, so let's not play that game.

Lol, go on, give us something to aim for. I'd also like links to studies that rubbish the papers I cited - always good to learn something new.

[Kaljug]

Randip Singh:

Post up your studies, I would like to see them.

Like I said, what works for you may not work for everyone, and eating a little animal flesh now and again won't make a vast difference to one's strength. The people here who do not eat meat can still make great gains, it just requires more effort and research than normal. At the end of the day, a vegetarian with a good diet and who trains like a demon is going to do far better than an omnivore who doesn't have the same intensity and discipline.

Post up your 1 rep max for bench, squat and deads for when you were 21 (your weight as well). Post up your diet and training regimen as well from that time so we youngins can learn (I'm being serious here). Were you training for bodybuilding or powerlifting? Did you compete? Were you a clean natural or a mean roidmonkey? It would be cool to have an experienced ironhead sharing training tips on this forum.

Come on man check your ego in at the door. I am not playing.

Bah. My ego is too large to get through the door anyway.

Trust me, come your 40's you would be pretty stupid lifting weights that heavy.

After I've spawned and my little monsters are grown up, I'm planning to buy shares in testosterone and human growth hormone. I'm also considering taking up one of the internal martial arts in the next 5 years which rely less on physical strength and more on skill (probably Xing Yi Quan as it is nice and aggressive).

Saying that, you are pretty strong, and whatever you are doing, you are doing correctly. Just watch the back and knees. Mine play up to buggery, and I had at 35 a dibitating case of sciatica that started when i was gardening.

That must have been some heavyduty gardening! ;-) Yeah, my knees already seem like they are 20 years older than the rest of my body, and my back takes a hell of a pounding these days from wrestling strong fat b******* but thankfully it is still good. I may have to get one of my Nihang buddies to teach me how to make sukhnidaan for those post-training aches though.

Regards,

K.

[randip singh]

Randip Singh:

Post up your studies, I would like to see them.

See Point 4. The only point of me was to post what I ate.

Like I said, what works for you may not work for everyone, and eating a little animal flesh now and again won't make a vast difference to one's strength. The people here who do not eat meat can still make great gains, it just requires more effort and research than normal. At the end of the day, a vegetarian with a good diet and who trains like a demon is going to do far better than an omnivore who doesn't have the same intensity and discipline.

I think quality of food makes a difference and understanding what each type of food does at a certain time is vital. You seem to be lifting massive weights, so if you mix your diiet around a bit see what happens. You wil be pleasantly surprised. Also lessens the possibility of injury.

Post up your 1 rep max for bench, squat and deads for when you were 21 (your weight as well). Post up your diet and training regimen as well from that time so we youngins can learn (I'm being serious here). Were you training for bodybuilding or powerlifting? Did you compete? Were you a clean natural or a mean roidmonkey? It would be cool to have an experienced ironhead sharing training tips on this forum.

No, defintely not a roid monkey. I think you can take a very good guess at if I am easily doing sets of 11 to 12 on 100 k's extrapolate back 20 years.

Bah. My ego is too large to get through the door anyway.

Unfortunately I suffer from that ailment.

After I've spawned and my little monsters are grown up, I'm planning to buy shares in testosterone and human growth hormone. I'm also considering taking up one of the internal martial arts in the next 5 years which rely less on physical strength and more on skill (probably Xing Yi Quan as it is nice and aggressive).

Don't totally lose your strength, if you are lifting that kind of weight, that means your gentic make up maybe orientated for that type fighting style too. Maybe consider Judo?

That must have been some heavyduty gardening! ;-) Yeah, my knees already seem like they are 20 years older than the rest of my body, and my back takes a hell of a pounding these days from wrestling strong fat b******* but thankfully it is still good. I may have to get one of my Nihang buddies to teach me how to make sukhnidaan for those post-training aches though.

Regards,

K.

Digging fence posts and over extending my back in ground where I had already broken one trench shovel totally screwed me. My mate always used to say, you won't get injured in the gym, but you'll get injured doing something stupid. He was right !

Sukhnindian LOL. Don't let the DDters or AKjr's see your post or you'll be prononounced a heretic

[Only five]

Thta's you opinion, and you don't have to listen to me. That's how I got strong and muscular after experiment with lots of "rubbish" diets, powders etc etc.

My comments on vege's is 100% correct. I stand by it.

I'm in my 40's and still easily bech 100 kilo's, squat 100 kilo's, and deadlift that amount. The diet has stood me well.

....and no offence for the guy on the site, he has done well for a vege but if he is struggling to get up to 4 plates (I am assuming Olypian bar and 25 kilo plates), then that is poor in terms of squatting records.

this is really funny. In grade 11 on a vegge diet i was bench pressing 225 lbs and did it in 4 months and weighed only 170lbs. Didn't need no meat no supplements or anything. If you want to gain mass then eat alot of daal and eat no less than 4 meals a day. 6 meals and 4 big meals is the ideal way to gain mass.

Start off with doing more reps(around 20 to 30), 4 sets and less weight(if you do ten reps in a set normally then decrease the weight by 10 lbs to get the 20 to 30 reps in a set). For everyone its different, but I used to do it for 3 weeks and went to more weight and less reps, but no less than 10 reps in a set. First build endurance by doing more reps and less weight then move on to doing 80 lbs or ( whatever you can do)bench press with dumbells on flat, incline, decline and all that good stuff.

Work out only 3 to 4 days a week and in the fifth day keep it strictly for running and light leg work outs.

no meat is need to get mass and start lifting 225 lbs plus on bench and curling 75lbs plus, just eat and eat and eat healthy vegetarian food, specifally daal and the vegetarian hamburgers/hotdogs/sandwiches

[Only five]

Another thing don't keep the same routine for too long. You gotta keep surprising your body with different work outs and doing each muscle on a different day. If you keep working out on the same routine for to long and work out to long or too many days a week then your muscle will start to break and your only hurting yourself and gaining nothing. Also don't neglect your legs they are one of the strongest muscles in your body that help you lift even more weight. The highest I have gone on leg work out- working out the upper legs is half a ton(1000 lbs where you lay back and push upwards) and lower can't remember, but it was close to 250 lbs to 300 lbs.

[randip singh]

this is really funny. In grade 11 on a vegge diet i was bench pressing 225 lbs and did it in 4 months and weighed only 170lbs.

Haha yes Ok!

I see you need to write you alleged achievements in big letter. You need help mate.

no meat is need blah blah blah, I lift a gazillion pounds and I live on grass and elderberry's. Blah blah blah blah blah I won Mr UNiverse and Worlds strongest man

[randip singh]

Also don't neglect your legs they are one of the strongest muscles in your body that help you lift even more weight. The highest I have gone on leg work out- working out the upper legs is half a ton(1000 lbs where you lay back and push upwards) and lower can't remember, but it was close to 250 lbs to 300 lbs.

It's called a leg press, and anyone who has done any serious training knows that.

I doubt you have even done 100lbs let alone 1000lb.

The only person you are fooling is yourself with boastful claims. You can tell from the way people write whether they know something about training. You my friend know zilch. Sorry.

[randip singh]

vegetarian hamburgers/hotdogs

why eat vegetarian food that resembles flesh and tastes like flesh?

Is there something Freudian about this?

[Only five]

Randip you wish I was lying. Rest of your comments there not worth my time.

Stay in Chardikalla Randip don't let another get under your skin

[randip singh]

Randip you wish I was lying.

I believe you.

[Only five]

For those that are hardcore bodybuilders. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. Vegetables ain't bad for your health LOL