A_Sikh_For_Life Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 To understand charitras 21,22 and 23 one should read charitras before that starting with charitra 2. Upto charitra 20 a minister is reciting charitras where women are deceiving men. In beginning of Charitra 21 king asks minister now tell me a charitra where men have duped women. That is shown in charitra 21,22 and 23. That itself is clear that it is a story( Fiction) being recited by a minister to his king. It is not real and hence cann't be related to life of tenth master. Changing the name of places is an artistic expression to take the story to great heights. Its fiction so why are some doing 'parkash' of this fiction? Think about it. Why would the 10th Guru Nanak (or any Nanaks) want us to pray to fiction? What this is doing is creating a form of islamic sunnah isnt it? One may read fiction but one does not pray to it does one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I believe the anti dasam granth sections also beleieve that devi devtas are not real and are fiction along with heaven and hell. The devte, devis, heaven, hell, karam, atma, etc are all found within the holy bani of Sri Guru Granth Shaib Ji. Does that mean you should not do parkash of that as well or pray to the heavenly bani. If that is your logic on the dasam granth, considering the things modern day missionaries believe to be myth or fiction should you not feel the same way about hte pavittar bani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Its fiction so why are some doing 'parkash' of this fiction? Think about it. Why would the 10th Guru Nanak (or any Nanaks) want us to pray to fiction? What this is doing is creating a form of islamic sunnah isnt it? One may read fiction but one does not pray to it does one? One should understand the meaning of a myth before saying above. Such stories are written to impart a moral lesson. For example In our school days we used to read story " The thristy crow." In the end it had moral. Similarly in charitras 21, 22 and 23 guru ji has given great teachings to khalsa by reciting the story of a King ( Not Guru ji but a king). Guru ji imparts moral lesson to his khalsa ਸੁਧਿ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਹਮ ਧਰੀ ਬਚਨ ਗੁਰ ਦਏ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥ ਪੂਤ ਇਹੈ ਪ੍ਰਨ ਤੋਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਬ ਲਗ ਘਟ ਥਾਰੇ ॥ ਨਿਜ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਸਾਥ ਨੇਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਨਿਤ ਬਢੈਯਹੁ ॥ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਜ ਭੂਲਿ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਹੂੰ ਨ ਜੈਯਹੁ ॥੫੧॥ Since i came of age My Guru has advised me My son, so far you have breath in your heart Keep in mind to love your wife But do not go to bed with otehr women ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਭਜੇ ਸਹਸ ਬਾਸਵ ਭਗ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਭਜੇ ਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਕਾਲੰਕ ਲਗਾਏ ॥ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ਸੀਸ ਦਸ ਸੀਸ ਗਵਾਯੋ ॥ ਹੋ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ਕਟਕ ਕਵਰਨ ਕੌ ਘਾਯੋ ॥੫੨॥ Having sex with other woman Indra got thousands of female organs on his body ( THis is written in SGGS also) Having association with others' woman Moon got defiled To have others' woman ten headed Ravna lost his head For others woman kaurva lost all their army Charitra 21 , Charitropakhayan , dasam Granth This moral lesson Guru ji is giving to his sikhs in those charitras. So these Kala afghana cult do not read those lessons but read only story that to without understanding. Reading these charitras Sikhs touched the heights of morality that was recorded by enemy historians. Any other query is highly welcome on these three charitras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Think about it. Why would the 10th Guru Nanak (or any Nanaks) want us to pray to fiction? Dasam granth imparts education to khalsa in spirituality , soldiery by infusing bir rass , political and mortal fields. It deals with temporal life of a Sikh. Guru ji teaches his khalsa like his own sons and daughters. Kala afghana sect does not say does not understand this. Their attack is not on Dasam granth but on Amrit of tenth master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valli singh Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Are the stories of Ajamal and Prelad and Narsingh which are so prominatly displayed in Guru Granth Sahib also fictions? Or are they just 'metaphors' (which are again, devices of fiction) because the way they are referenced in Gurbani and forcibly invoked they do not seem to indicate that those who invoked them were speaking in terms of merely mythological fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Are the stories of Ajamal and Prelad and Narsingh which are so prominatly displayed in Guru Granth Sahib also fictions? Or are they just 'metaphors' (which are again, devices of fiction) because the way they are referenced in Gurbani and forcibly invoked they do not seem to indicate that those who invoked them were speaking in terms of merely mythological fallacy. Valli singh ji That is a diffrent part to deal with. Bhagat Prahlad and raja janak have been cited as Gurmukhs in Gurbani. I do not think that is a fiction. But in charitras 21,22 and 23 there is no real personality cited. It is a story of king being told by a minister to his king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I believe the anti dasam granth sections also beleieve that devi devtas are not real and are fiction along with heaven and hell. The devte, devis, heaven, hell, karam, atma, etc are all found within the holy bani of Sri Guru Granth Shaib Ji. Does that mean you should not do parkash of that as well or pray to the heavenly bani. If that is your logic on the dasam granth, considering the things modern day missionaries believe to be myth or fiction should you not feel the same way about hte pavittar bani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. One is fiction ie tales mostly about women. Why is the writer so paranoid about women and lust? Think about this before comparing it to Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦਿ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥ Gurmukhi prahilaad japi hari gati paaee: As Gurmukh, Prahlaad meditated on the Divine, and was emancipated Ang 591 SGGS ji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 One is fiction ie tales mostly about women. Why is the writer so paranoid about women and lust? Think about this before comparing it to Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. There is no lust in Charitropakhayan. It is a moral lesson for khalsa by Guru ji. Guru ji sums up in the end Sunne gung jo jahi so rasna pavai Sunne moor cjit laye chatruta avai Those dumbs who recite this with attention get tongue Those mrookhs who recite these with attention get wisdom. Charitropakhayan Lust is for those who pick two liners at random and distort the meanings. It is to be read from the beginning with the mind of Gurmukh Jogi and not manmukh bhogi. Let us focus on n chartiras 21,22 and 23 for the time being. the we can go to otehr compositions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 There is no lust in Charitropakhayan. It is a moral lesson for khalsa by Guru ji. Guru ji sums up in the end Sunne gung jo jahi so rasna pavai Sunne moor cjit laye chatruta avai Charitropakhayan Lust is for those who pick two liners at random and distort the meanings. It is to be read from the beginning with the mind of Gurmukh Jogi and not manmukh bhogi. Let us focus on n chartiras 21,22 and 23 for the time being. the we can go to otehr compositions By telling fiction.? Why is the Guru Granth Sahib Jee not good enough for the "khalsa"? There are plenty of lessons in Gurbani for avoiding kam krodh moh and ahankar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 One is fiction ie tales mostly about women. That is oft repeated statement of kala afghana sect.It is outright lie. Have you read ist charitra. That is the greaetet praise showered on women than anywhere else in the history of world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 REPEAT: One is fiction ie tales mostly about women. Why is the writer so paranoid about WOMEN and SEX? Think about this before comparing it to Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valli singh Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Yes I agree Brother, But as Kam Veerji has also stated, we are trying to extrapolate their logic of what is fiction to it's logical conclusions, the fellow above asked why would the Ten Nanaks want us to prakash/pray to fictions that begs the question 'do they believe that these mythological/historical personages referenced in Guru Granth Sahib are also fictions?' If so, they have a big problem because they would then be completely scriptureless, so I'm assuming then that they accept: - that Ahalya was turned into a stone (Ang 874) -that the Apsaras exist (142) -that the fish and boar incarnations came (1269) -that Krishna subdued Kali (350) -that there are millions of Yakshas, Kinnars and Pishachas (276) it does not say anywhere in these verses that they are from stories, actually they are stated as facts, are these anti-Gurmat fictions also or do you accept them? It does not say anywhere use logic, reason and scientific principles to question these things nor does it say that they are fanciful beliefs that are written only to ignite the popular imagination, they are refered to in the past tense as though they actually happened which means that the authors accepted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 By telling fiction.? Why is the Guru Granth Sahib Jee not good enough for the "khalsa"? There are plenty of lessons in Gurbani for avoiding kam krodh moh and ahankar. Why cann't be Dasam granth written by tenth master good for sikhs? Any reason for to have that view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 REPEAT: One is fiction ie tales mostly about women. Why is the writer so paranoid about WOMEN and SEX? Think about this before comparing it to Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Why should you compare two granths. They are not rivals. They are brothers and complement each other. One talks about spiritualty and the otehr talks about Spiritualty. concept of saint-soldier and imparts moral lessons to khalsa s an organized religion/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 That is oft repeated statement of kala afghana sect.It is outright lie. Why are you so paranoid about this kala afghana? FYI I am NOT an affiliate of this person or any other cult. I can think for myself. End of the day - It is stories and fiction. Only a small PART of all the works can be by Guru Gobind Singh Jee and these small section are INLINE with Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee GURMAT. FYI Sikhs do not have haddiths nor do we want haddiths or sunnah as part of "being a Sikh". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Yes I agree Brother, But as Kam Veerji has also stated, we are trying to extrapolate their logic of what is fiction to it's logical conclusions, the fellow above asked why would the Ten Nanaks want us to prakash/pray to fictions that begs the question 'do they believe that these mythological/historical personages referenced in Guru Granth Sahib are also fictions?' If so, they have a big problem because they would then be completely scriptureless, so I'm assuming then that they accept: - that Ahalya was turned into a stone (Ang 874) -that the Apsaras exist (142) -that the fish and boar incarnations came (1269) -that Krishna subdued Kali (350) -that there are millions of Yakshas, Kinnars and Pishachas (276) it does not say anywhere in these verses that they are from stories, actually they are stated as facts, are these anti-Gurmat fictions also or do you accept them? It does not say anywhere use logic, reason and scientific principles to question these things nor does it say that they are fanciful beliefs that are written only to ignite the popular imagination, they are refered to in the past tense as though they actually happened which means that the authors accepted them. Great post Valli singh ji. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Why should you compare two granths. They are not rivals. They are brothers and complement each other. Not they are not and no they do not. Guru Gobind Singh Jee very clearly gave us this instruction "..Gur maneo granth.." and that is where we will find him. Why are you disobeying this command of Guru jee now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Why are you so paranoid about this kala afghana? FYI I am NOT an affiliate of this person or any other cult. I can think for myself. End of the day - It is stories and fiction. Only a small PART of all the works can be by Guru Gobind Singh Jee and these small section are INLINE with Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee GURMAT. FYI Sikhs do not have haddiths nor do we want haddiths or sunnah as part of "being a Sikh". Because kala afghana started this. giving sermons of morality to sikhs whereas he indulges in molestation of woman while serving as granthi of Gurudwara sahib in Victoai, BC. Do not compare two granths. The two are for different purposes. Wherein SGGS is written about Amrit or khande di pahul for sikhs? Tomorrow you people will tell it is not written in SGGGS ji so no need to have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Why cann't be Dasam granth written by tenth master good for sikhs? Any reason for to have that view? yes - its mostly story telling of fiction general paranoia with women and sexual liasion and not forgetting the many contradiction in the believe of goddess etc 1. Tell me where did Guru Gobind Singh jee instruct us to believe in any of his works? 2. Dont tell me that this is it - "....Guru maneo granth..." mentioned in or around 1708 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Not they are not and no they do not. Guru Gobind Singh Jee very clearly gave us this instruction "..Gur maneo granth.." and that is where we will find him. Why are you disobeying this command of Guru jee now? By the same logic that you are using for Dasam granth, i ask you to show me where it is written by Guru ji? Belief in dasam granth does not mean that we disobey command of Guru sahib. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 PEPEAT: Why is the writer so paranoid about WOMEN and SEXUAL Liasions and Goddesses ? Think about this before comparing it to Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 One talks about spiritualty and the otehr talks about Spiritualty. concept of saint-soldier and imparts moral lessons to khalsa s an organized religion/ keh? Your reply simply does not make any sense even to a pea brain like mind.! If you have done vichaar of Sri Guru granth Sahib jee (even a small amount) you will know that all the power to become a KHALSA (Gurmukh) is in Sri Guru Grath jee. Its because of Gurmat in Sri Guru Granth sahib jee that a person becomes high in morality and high in spirituality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 By the same logic that you are using for Dasam granth, i ask you to show me where it is written by Guru ji? Belief in dasam granmth is not to disobey command of Guru sahib. Your reply yet again does not make any sense. Pray tell me where does it instruct us to also believe in "Bachitar Natak Granth aka Samundar Sagar Granth aka Vidya Sagar Granth aka Dasam Granth aka Dasam Padshah ka Granth aka Sri Dasam Granth Sahib aka Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaheguruseekr Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 A Sikh for life, Guru Fateh. Well said. You are one of the few people who makes sense in this forum. The rest are holding Singh2's aka Inder Singh in other forums, chola and follow him blindly. Singh2 aka Inder Singh does not know anything about SGGS. He claimed that there was no REHAT mentioned in the SGGS and then when I gave him the Panna numbers he said he was talking about Khalsa Rehat, which is funny because SGGS tells us how to live like a Sikh. LOL. And, little does this 82 yr old man know that Khalsa concept was created by Guru Nanak. Khalsa means pure hearted and Gurbani in SGGS gives us the tools how to become that. Poor soul this Singh2 aka Inder Singh is.In other words Khalsa cake was baked by our nine Gurus and our 10th Guru put the icing on the top of this beautiful cake called the Khalsa Panth. Singh2 aka Inder Singh loves, the Charitropakhayan though. He flaunts it with great pride all the time. We call a person like that in the UK, the old lecher. And that is not worse. He flaunts his Jatt caste with great pride like the Hindus do whereas our Gurus rejected caste system.He claims that his Jatt clan has been there since the time of our Gurus. One more Hindu concept that shows his mentality. You are doing a great job. Do not get swayed by these parrots who are not allowed to think and do Gurbani Vichaar. They have not learnt that yet. Regards Tejwant Singh Mod's note: Tejwant Singh you are given 1st warning to calling obscene words to describe composition of sri dasam granth without any direct proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts