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Slander Of Dasam Granth On Spn


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singh2

Sikhs have two gurus, Guru Granth and guru panth. guru panth is for temporal affairs of sikhs. A sikh is a saint-soldier. That is why Harmandir sahib and akal takhat. We are not comparing our Granths. both granths are equally important and are not rivals. They complement each other. Nothing change overtime. that is your concept but not of sikhs at large and akal takhat.

theres no such 'guru panth'. seems like sikh clergy have fabricated this idea in order to seize power. Akal Takht was Guru Hargobind's throne. Much later after Guru Gobind Singh's times some Singhs used to convene there to have democratic meetings. it seems peopel are confusing this as meaning 'guru panth'.

The Akal Takht as used in the modern sense seems fabricated. These people of SGPC sitting there thinking they can issue hukamnamas to the panth are deluded. SGPC are an administrative body, Akal Takt is not theres to sit on.

Infact all 5 takhts are a modern fabrication. They are not a Guru tradition.

Im tired of 'Institutional sikhi' being forced onto all of panth.

While departing Guru gobind singh said

Pooja akal ki

Parcha shabad ka

Didar Khalse ka

Institution of Panj piaras represent Guru Panth. You may not believe it. it is upto you. That is what rehatnama

of Bhai Prehlad singh says.

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It doesn't matter what you are tired of, nor does it matter that you are obviously uneducated, but like to present your fiction as facts none the less, without making any effort to actually research before bombarding us with your modernist opinions, which always have to insult established puratan (not new) traditions..

Read this for some basic understanding:

http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?sh...hl=HERMENEUTICS

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Personally, I think that a Sikh youth who stays away from internet Sikh forums will become a better Sikh. The level of hate, doubt, negativity on Sikh forums is so high that by the end of the day your spiritual level will be lower. Best thing is to just read Sikh books, go to Gurdwara, listen to Katha and do Sangat of Singhs who seek the Charan Kamal of Vaheguru.

Compared to most forums, Sikh awareness is the probably the best, because people here are more open minded, and they don't throw wild accusations like being a part of RSS just because you may not agree with their views. As for Jarnail Singh Arshi, that guy is a Naastik Kala Afghanist. A while back he was on Tapoban forum. At first Arshi used to believe in Naam Simran, Gurmantra, reincarnation etc, but as time went on slowly his views would seem to be tilting towards Kala Afghanist philosophy. until a point when he eventually left the Tapoban forum for SPN which is basically Kala Afghanist/Ghagha forum. That man is full of hate, anger. He uses intimidation against Sikhs who do not agree with his views. Moreover, he also uses deception. He will post under multiple names just to pretend he has more people supporting him. I remember him posting under his daughter's name just to make it appear he has more support. But it was so obvious that it was him. He has a very annoying way of writing, with every other word or every 3rd word he writes in capital letters.

As for those who says we should not discuss about SPN's kala afghana links, I ask you what will you gain by acting so politically correct? Will they give you a Gold medal for being so PC? If they are Anti Dasam Granth, Anti Sikhi Sidhaant, Anti Nam-Simran, then they should be exposed. Who cares what they think!

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Personally, I think that a Sikh youth who stays away from internet Sikh forums will become a better Sikh. The level of hate, doubt, negativity on Sikh forums is so high that by the end of the day your spiritual level will be lower. Best thing is to just read Sikh books, go to Gurdwara, listen to Katha and do Sangat of Singhs who seek the Charan Kamal of Vaheguru.

Compared to most forums, Sikh awareness is the probably the best, because people here are more open minded, and they don't throw wild accusations like being a part of RSS just because you may not agree with their views. As for Jarnail Singh Arshi, that guy is a Naastik Kala Afghanist. A while back he was on Tapoban forum. At first Arshi used to believe in Naam Simran, Gurmantra, reincarnation etc, but as time went on slowly his views would seem to be tilting towards Kala Afghanist philosophy. until a point when he eventually left the Tapoban forum for SPN which is basically Kala Afghanist/Ghagha forum. That man is full of hate, anger. He uses intimidation against Sikhs who do not agree with his views. Moreover, he also uses deception. He will post under multiple names just to pretend he has more people supporting him. I remember him posting under his daughter's name just to make it appear he has more support. But it was so obvious that it was him. He has a very annoying way of writing, with every other word or every 3rd word he writes in capital letters.

As for those who says we should not discuss about SPN's kala afghana links, I ask you what will you gain by acting so politically correct? Will they give you a Gold medal for being so PC? If they are Anti Dasam Granth, Anti Sikhi Sidhaant, Anti Nam-Simran, then they should be exposed. Who cares what they think!

I agree with your views 100 percent. to be politically correct is not a sikh way especially when oyur Guru is being slandered.

We need to combat such forces. Had we done it earlier it would have been much better for us.

Kala afghan cult does not have following. Their main preaching is confined to internet.

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Very true Singh2. These Kala Afghanists mostly are lions on the internet only. In real life, they have little support amongst the mass public. But that is not to say that is the way it will remain forever. These people are fast increasing their support, in particularly in North America. In Canada, they have a man named Samagh who has a show on Vishion TV who openly supports their views who brings Ghagha, Darshan Singh, Kala Afghana who ridicule Dasam Granth and Sikhi Sidhaant. Many leading Khalistani uncles in North America whose names I do not want to say out openly on the internet are also open supporters of Kala Afghanist philosophy.

These Kala Afghanists are extremely active. So far they don't have any Gurdwaras YET. They assemble at each other's houses to brainwash each other. Moreover, they train each other to debate. This is why they are such good debaters when talking to them face to face. They are very active on the internet. So they must be countered on the internet, because internet is the place where many young Sikhs tend to get brainwashed.

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I agree with your views 100 percent. to be politically correct is not a sikh way especially when oyur Guru is being slandered.

We need to combat such forces. Had we done it earlier it would have been much better for us.

Kala afghan cult does not have following. Their main preaching is confined to internet.

There is an american who joined sikhism through yogi Bhajan. His name is Amar prakash singh. later he left he yogi bhajan but retained his sikh saroop.

A few days back he wrote an article " Losing my religion." The main crux was that he will lose his saroop but will retain

spirituality. He also made some comments on SGGS ji and a singh told that he will post these on other sites.

Given below is the reply of adminitrator Anthonia of SPN which proves that aim of the site is commercialism and not any love for sikhi.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/2...kash-singh.html

Singh ji

Please post your critiques of SPN all over the Net and to your heart's content. Every time you or a member of your cohort attempts a smear campaign of SPN our net traffic increases by 100 percent or more (not an exaggeration) and visitors translates into members at higher rates too. It is always a pleasre.

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Very true Singh2. These Kala Afghanists mostly are lions on the internet only. In real life, they have little support amongst the mass public. But that is not to say that is the way it will remain forever. These people are fast increasing their support, in particularly in North America. In Canada, they have a man named Samagh who has a show on Vishion TV who openly supports their views who brings Ghagha, Darshan Singh, Kala Afghana who ridicule Dasam Granth and Sikhi Sidhaant. Many leading Khalistani uncles in North America whose names I do not want to say out openly on the internet are also open supporters of Kala Afghanist philosophy.

These Kala Afghanists are extremely active. So far they don't have any Gurdwaras YET. They assemble at each other's houses to brainwash each other. Moreover, they train each other to debate. This is why they are such good debaters when talking to them face to face. They are very active on the internet. So they must be countered on the internet, because internet is the place where many young Sikhs tend to get brainwashed.

You are dead on dot. Gurmit singh aulakh was called by a sikh organization to San francisco last year. After seminar i counterd him while standing in a queue for langar. I asked him why is he criticizing dasam granth? He did not know anything about dasam granth. he had been brainwahsed by Gurtej singh IAS.

That is one reason i distanced myself from this group. I asked him how will you protect sikhism in khalistan when he himself was destroying it.

Any suggestion to counter it. I was part of a group in organizing a seminar on dasam granth in sacramento last year. i have some people who are willing to support me on this. Any suggestions are wlcome. We owe it to our guru and our future generations.

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Personally, I think that a Sikh youth who stays away from internet Sikh forums will become a better Sikh. The level of hate, doubt, negativity on Sikh forums is so high that by the end of the day your spiritual level will be lower. Best thing is to just read Sikh books, go to Gurdwara, listen to Katha and do Sangat of Singhs who seek the Charan Kamal of Vaheguru.

Compared to most forums, Sikh awareness is the probably the best, because people here are more open minded, and they don't throw wild accusations like being a part of RSS just because you may not agree with their views. As for Jarnail Singh Arshi, that guy is a Naastik Kala Afghanist. A while back he was on Tapoban forum. At first Arshi used to believe in Naam Simran, Gurmantra, reincarnation etc, but as time went on slowly his views would seem to be tilting towards Kala Afghanist philosophy. until a point when he eventually left the Tapoban forum for SPN which is basically Kala Afghanist/Ghagha forum. That man is full of hate, anger. He uses intimidation against Sikhs who do not agree with his views. Moreover, he also uses deception. He will post under multiple names just to pretend he has more people supporting him. I remember him posting under his daughter's name just to make it appear he has more support. But it was so obvious that it was him. He has a very annoying way of writing, with every other word or every 3rd word he writes in capital letters.

As for those who says we should not discuss about SPN's kala afghana links, I ask you what will you gain by acting so politically correct? Will they give you a Gold medal for being so PC? If they are Anti Dasam Granth, Anti Sikhi Sidhaant, Anti Nam-Simran, then they should be exposed. Who cares what they think!

Dead on Mithar. At first I thought SPN was actually run by Sikhs that are only going to stand up for Truth. The more I got to know the people the more I learned it was all about winning agruements for the regulars and they do it at any cost. Well there are some great members their, but none of them write there. And I can see why no one chooses to write there- no one wants to lower their spirituality by getting in an agruement with anti-Sikh people.

Well im post the article that is in question by Amar Prakash Singh so forum members here can see for themselves what the founders, admins, mods, and mentors prompt as Sikhi.

I'll start a new topic on it. Please do give your input if you agree or disagree with what is being said in the article.

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Vijaydeep Singh had some great pro dasam bani arguments on there. Regularly (and easily) defeated the nonsense from the anti Gurbani lobby. I recommend reading his old threads as he is very learned on the subject.

They delete his posts. Giani has virtually taken over that site with the help of one adminitrator anthonia.

Amn singh took some action yesterday and warned khalsa fauj.

It seems a lot is going on without aman singh's knowledge.

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Are you stating that all the people on this forum are monkeys?

If so why do you come to this forum? Why not go back to the forums you have been on previously and let us monkeys get on with our 'tea parties'!

The monkeys were having a nice tea party, then one of them threw something at the other. Before you knew it they were hurling faeces at one another. Get the picture!

Infact I might leave.

Never thought I would see the day this forum would turn into sikhsangat 2. Its a real shame. :blink:

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Uncle Ji, whatever your personal opinions or views, calling people monkeys just makes you as bad as those you despise.

Why not debate the issues raised with some akhlaq and manners?

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The monkeys were having a nice tea party, then one of them threw something at the other. Before you knew it they were hurling faeces at one another. Get the picture!

Infact I might leave.

Never thought I would see the day this forum would turn into sikhsangat 2. Its a real shame. :blink:

randeep

You should have some civic sense. In fact you are proving to be a monkey.

You have kala afghana sect as your mentors. Your mentor Giani writes someones article under his name.

To suppress others view point you resort to censorship over there. it is the magnanimity of this forum that you

have been allowed to say this.

Antonia , adm of SPN,is touted as a sikh by a moderator and she is a bob cut american. This is the sikhi you are

bringing claimto promote.

For you guys

Sharam dharm doen chhip khaloye

Koor phire pardhan ve lalo

Who is monkey? You are the monkey.

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Personally, I think that a Sikh youth who stays away from internet Sikh forums will become a better Sikh. The level of hate, doubt, negativity on Sikh forums is so high that by the end of the day your spiritual level will be lower. Best thing is to just read Sikh books, go to Gurdwara, listen to Katha and do Sangat of Singhs who seek the Charan Kamal of Vaheguru.

if you really believe that why would you bother posting here at all?

why read books and go do 'sangat of singhs'? why dont you just read the ONLY text as far as sikhi is cocnerned (im sure you can figure out what i am alluding to) and go sit somewhere and follow its guidance?

the fact is that the reason you peopl are so threatened by 'Kala Afghanist' is because like you lot they view religion as purely conceptual entity. you are worried that your concepts will be unsurped by theirs. you people are fixated on institutions, ideas, interpetations etc.

e.g. what consequence is it to someones worship if they believe in reincarnation or not?

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the fact is that the reason you peopl are so threatened by 'Kala Afghanist' is because like you lot they view religion as purely conceptual entity. you are worried that your concepts will be unsurped by theirs. you people are fixated on institutions, ideas, interpetations etc.

Religion is a book of science. Purpose of religion is to get rid of cycle of rebirths and death by meditating on God.

So the experience fo those who ahve realized God serves as a way of laerning for the aspirant.

WhaT kala has to prove by his non-believer theory? Please enlighten us.

e.g. what consequence is it to someones worship if they believe in reincarnation or not?

A stupid question from an agnostic. A sikh does not worship to get salvation. A sikh meditates for love of God.

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Uncle Ji, whatever your personal opinions or views, calling people monkeys just makes you as bad as those you despise.

Why not debate the issues raised with some akhlaq and manners?

Now like Inder Singh aka Singh 2 I think people here need to go back to school and learn to read.

Here is what I wrote:

This thread reminds me of a Monkeys Tea Party I once saw at London Zoo!

Now please enlighten me where I said the people here, or this person here?

Please tell me which exact person or persons I called a monkey? Did I call the thread a monkey, in which case why are you offended that the thread is being called a monkey?

See this is the problem. If you have a small house, do not make provision to entertain an elephant!

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randeep

You should have some civic sense. In fact you are proving to be a monkey.

Slander and nindya is all you know.

That is all you have to spend in your purse.

You get defeated in multiple debate and when people question your sources you revert to slander on other forums.

Inder Singh if you think I'm a monkey that's fine.

You have kala afghana sect as your mentors. Your mentor Giani writes someones article under his name.

To suppress others view point you resort to censorship over there. it is the magnanimity of this forum that you

have been allowed to say this.

That's your view, and you are entitled to it, but when you lose debates you don't go crying to other people do you. I thought the Sikh way was to stand up for yourself.

I myself asked you a million times to debate the issues and not the person. Provide sources to back up your arguments. You couldn't and wouldn't and now you are slithering from forum to forum. That is really sad.

Antonia , adm of SPN,is touted as a sikh by a moderator and she is a bob cut american. This is the sikhi you are

bringing claimto promote.

She is a better Sikh than you.

For you guys

Sharam dharm doen chhip khaloye

Koor phire pardhan ve lalo

For you specifically

Page 308

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੪ ॥

सलोक मः ४ ॥

Salok mėhlā 4.

Shalok, Fourth Mehl:

ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਤਾਤਿ ਪਰਾਈ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਭਲਾ ॥

जिसु अंदरि ताति पराई होवै तिस दा कदे न होवी भला ॥

Jis anḏar ṯāṯ parā▫ī hovai ṯis ḏā kaḏe na hovī bẖalā.

One whose heart is filled with jealousy of others, never comes to any good.

ਓਸ ਦੈ ਆਖਿਐ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਲਗੈ ਨਿਤ ਓਜਾੜੀ ਪੂਕਾਰੇ ਖਲਾ ॥

ओस दै आखिऐ कोई न लगै नित ओजाड़ी पूकारे खला ॥

Os ḏai ākẖi▫ai ko▫ī na lagai niṯ ojāṛī pūkāre kẖalā.

No one pays any attention to what he says; he is just a fool, crying out endlessly in the wilderness.

ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਚੁਗਲੀ ਚੁਗਲੋ ਵਜੈ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਰਤਿਆ ਓਸ ਦਾ ਸਭੁ ਗਇਆ ॥

जिसु अंदरि चुगली चुगलो वजै कीता करतिआ ओस दा सभु गइआ ॥

Jis anḏar cẖuglī cẖuglo vajai kīṯā karṯi▫ā os ḏā sabẖ ga▫i▫ā.

One whose heart is filled with malicious gossip, is known as a malicious gossip; everything he does is in vain.

ਨਿਤ ਚੁਗਲੀ ਕਰੇ ਅਣਹੋਦੀ ਪਰਾਈ ਮੁਹੁ ਕਢਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਓਸ ਦਾ ਕਾਲਾ ਭਇਆ ॥

नित चुगली करे अणहोदी पराई मुहु कढि न सकै ओस दा काला भइआ ॥

Niṯ cẖuglī kare aṇhoḏī parā▫ī muhu kadẖ na sakai os ḏā kālā bẖa▫i▫ā.

Night and day, he continually gossips about others; his face has been blackened, and he cannot show it to anyone.

ਕਰਮ ਧਰਤੀ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੇਹਾ ਕੋ ਬੀਜੇ ਤੇਹਾ ਕੋ ਖਾਏ ॥

करम धरती सरीरु कलिजुग विचि जेहा को बीजे तेहा को खाए ॥

Karam ḏẖarṯī sarīr kalijug vicẖ jehā ko bīje ṯehā ko kẖā▫e.

The body is the field of action, in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga; as you plant, so shall you harvest.

ਗਲਾ ਉਪਰਿ ਤਪਾਵਸੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ਵਿਸੁ ਖਾਧੀ ਤਤਕਾਲ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਏ ॥

गला उपरि तपावसु न होई विसु खाधी ततकाल मरि जाए ॥

Galā upar ṯapāvas na ho▫ī vis kẖāḏẖī ṯaṯkāl mar jā▫e.

Justice is not passed on mere words; if someone eats poison, he dies.

ਭਾਈ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਨਿਆਉ ਸਚੁ ਕਰਤੇ ਕਾ ਜੇਹਾ ਕੋਈ ਕਰੇ ਤੇਹਾ ਕੋਈ ਪਾਏ ॥

भाई वेखहु निआउ सचु करते का जेहा कोई करे तेहा कोई पाए ॥

Bẖā▫ī vekẖhu ni▫ā▫o sacẖ karṯe kā jehā ko▫ī kare ṯehā ko▫ī pā▫e.

O Siblings of Destiny, behold the justice of the True Creator; as people act, so they are rewarded.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਉ ਸਭ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਦਰ ਕੀਆ ਬਾਤਾ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥੧॥

जन नानक कउ सभ सोझी पाई हरि दर कीआ बाता आखि सुणाए ॥१॥

Jan Nānak ka▫o sabẖ sojẖī pā▫ī har ḏar kī▫ā bāṯā ākẖ suṇā▫e. ||1||

The Lord has bestowed total understanding upon servant Nanak; he speaks and proclaims the words of the Lord's Court. ||1||

Who is monkey? You are the monkey.

Like I said, I am proud to be a monkey but what you are doing is spreading poison:

Page 171

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਹੀਅਰਾ ਅਤਿ ਕਠੋਰੁ ਹੈ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਾਰ ਕਰੀਠਾ ॥

मनमुख हीअरा अति कठोरु है तिन अंतरि कार करीठा ॥

Manmukẖ hī▫arā aṯ kaṯẖor hai ṯin anṯar kār karīṯẖā.

The hearts of the self-willed manmukhs are hard and cruel; their inner beings are dark.

ਬਿਸੀਅਰ ਕਉ ਬਹੁ ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਆਈਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਨਿਕਸੈ ਫੋਲਿ ਫੁਲੀਠਾ ॥੩॥

बिसीअर कउ बहु दूधु पीआईऐ बिखु निकसै फोलि फुलीठा ॥३॥

Bisī▫ar ka▫o baho ḏūḏẖ pī▫ā▫ī▫ai bikẖ niksai fol fuṯẖīlā. ||3||

Even if the poisonous snake is fed large amounts of milk, it will still yield only poison. ||3||

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Slander and nindya is all you know.

That is all you have to spend in your purse.

You get defeated in multiple debate and when people question your sources you revert to slander on other forums.

Inder Singh if you think I'm a monkey that's fine.

Your buddies slander bani of our Guru. You remain there listening to venom of waheguruseeker.

do you debate there. there is no debate. Iwas called for debate but all i listened was like a court case where

personal slander was involved.

That's your view, and you are entitled to it, but when you lose debates you don't go crying to other people do you. I thought the Sikh way was to stand up for yourself.

I myself asked you a million times to debate the issues and not the person. Provide sources to back up your arguments. You couldn't and wouldn't and now you are slithering from forum to forum. That is really sad.

all your buddies do there is to promote kala afghan ideology. You call it debate. What a sham you have created there.

She is a better Sikh than you.

So a bob cut who resorts to frequent lies is a sikh.That is the type of sikhi you want to bring it in now.

Your kala afgana agenda is bared.

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This is how debate started there

My reply to Dal singh

That last image is intriguing. The text on the left folio does indeed resemble what I have been told was dasmesh pita's handwriting in a hukum nama. It is shame a higher quality image could not be found. When I enlarged it to 200 percent it became heavily pixelated.

Reply by Inder singh( singh2)

You have to see the background of Sikh struggles. How Guru ji had to leave Anandpur, Scriptures falling into the hands of Muslims and lot of literature swept away by inflated Sirsa.Please take these factors into account before commenting.

Need to remember that there were scribes employed by guru ji for compilation of Dasam Granth. His hand written pages are there but not all was not written in his hand. His hand written pages are known as khas patras. Corrections in his hand writing are all over the manuscript.

Also original beer called Hazuri beer is held by a private house. What we are seeing is digitized copy. Very few people have seen this beer.

then comes waheguruseeker

Originally Posted by VaheguruSeekr View Post

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

We are here to seek the truth, not to speculate. so for you to claim that some of the pages presented are written by Guru Gobind Singh ji is nothing but speculation which leads to falsehood, not a Sikhi trait,l am afraid.

What exactly are you trying to prove here? The handwriting is of Guru Gobind Singh ji? Compared to what?

So, I urge you not to speculate in the name of Guru Gobind Singh ji which is nothing but disrespect to our beloved Guru.

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant ji

It is not speculation. it is a reality. Is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji written by Guru sahib. There was scribe for that.

Here also scribes were there. additionally we have hand written pages of Guru sahib also. His hand writing is recognizable. he has also done corrections on many pages.

I had invited you to ahve a look on this. You turned down my offer.

Re: Dasam Granth and its History >>

My question still remains unanswered. How do you know it is Guru Gobind Singh ji's handwriting? Compared to what?

Your question was answered but it was not posted on the message board. I do not know why it was withheld.

There is a post of Dal singh that says as below

The text on the left folio does indeed resemble what I have been told was dasmesh pita's handwriting in a hukum nama.

It is good that there is somebody who has seen handwriting of Guru Sahib in his Hukamnama and has testified to that. You should believe him if not me.

Thanks for the invitation but that would not prove anything. As I said before, it is our duty as Sikhs to seek the truth not to invent it by speculation which becomes a big lie.

If you do not want to believe what Sikhs have on dasam granth,That is your prerogative.Shoew me the refrence from Sikh history where a doubt was cast on Dasam Granth before

Teja singh Bhasaur. That should seal this issue.

Secondly, please show me in this forum about another falsehood that you have created in another forum called Sikh Sangat. Following is your false claim:

You should read your posts carefully to know who is creating falsehood.I can post those references if you desire. Start a different thread.Do not bring those issues in this thread as such digressions lead to polemics and hence result in spoiling the thread.

I had the impression that discussion is on dasam Granth. Let us focus on that. Any other query on the topic is welcome.

Then mentor waheguruseeker had no question.

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