Terms Used In Sri Dasam Granth

[singh2]

so you people are saying sarguna Durga is some kind of low concept? so what is this:

"ਨਮੋ ਚਤੁਰ ਬਾਹੀ ਨਮੋ ਅਸਟ ਬਾਹਾ ॥"

O Goddess ! thou art four-armed, eight-armed,

(292)

We are not grading her low or high. We say that Guru sahib does not seek boon from Durga or anyothyer deity.

He advises otehrs not to do that.

ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥

क्रिसन औ बिसन जपे तुहि कोटिक राम रहीम भली बिधि धिआयो ॥

Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਹਿ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥

ब्रहम जपिओ अरु स्मभु थपिओ तहि ते तुहि को किनहूं न बचायो ॥

Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee.

ਕੋਟ ਕਰੀ ਤਪਸਾ ਦਿਨ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨ ਕੌਡੀ ਕੋ ਕਾਮ ਕਢਾਯੋ ॥

कोट करी तपसा दिन कोटिक काहूं न कौडी को काम कढायो ॥

Thou hast observed millions of austerities for millions of days, but thou couldst not be recompensed even for the value of a couldst not be recompensed even for the value of a cowrie.

ਕਾਮਕੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਕਸੀਰੇ ਕੇ ਕਾਮ ਨ ਕਾਲ ਕੋ ਘਾਉ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥੯੭॥

कामकु मंत्र कसीरे के काम न काल को घाउ किनहूं न बचायो ॥९७॥

The Mantra recited for fulfillment of worldly desires doth not even bring the least gain and none of such Mantras can`t save from the blow of KAL.97.

ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਕੂਰ ਕਰੈ ਤਪਸਾ ਇਨ ਕੀ ਕੋਊ ਕੌਡੀ ਕੇ ਕਾਮ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥

काहे को कूर करै तपसा इन की कोऊ कौडी के काम न ऐहै ॥

Why doth thou indulge in false austerities, because they will not bring in gain of even one cowrie.

ਤੋਹਿ ਬਚਾਇ ਸਕੈ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਕੈ ਆਪਨ ਘਾਵ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥

तोहि बचाइ सकै कहु कैसे कै आपन घाव बचाइ न ऐहै ॥

The cannot save themselves form the blow (of KAL), how can they protect thee?

and then further

ਤਾਹਿ ਪਛਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਨ ਮਹਾ ਪਸੁ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਤਿਹੂੰ ਪੁਰ ਮਾਹੀ ॥

ताहि पछानत है न महा पसु जा को प्रतापु तिहूं पुर माही ॥

O foolish beast! Thou doth not recognize Him, Whose Glory hath spread over all the three worlds.

ਪੂਜਤ ਹੈ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੇ ਪਰਸੈ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਪਰਾਹੀ ॥

पूजत है परमेसर कै जिह के परसै परलोक पराही ॥

Thou worshippest those deities as God, by whose touch thou shalt be driven far away from the next world.

ਪਾਪ ਕਰੋ ਪਰਮਾਰਥ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਪਾਪਨ ਤੇ ਅਤਿ ਪਾਪ ਲਜਾਹੀ ॥

पाप करो परमारथ कै जिह पापन ते अति पाप लजाही ॥

Thou art committing such sins in th name of parmarath (the subtle truth) that by committing them the Great sins may feel shy.

ਪਾਇ ਪਰੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕੇ ਜੜ ਪਾਹਨ ਮੈਂ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੯੯॥

पाइ परो परमेसर के जड़ पाहन मैं परमेसर नाही ॥९९॥

O fool! Fall at the feet of Lord-God, the Lord is not within the stone-idols.99.

Bachitra natak

[singh2]

??? SCHOLARS like SINGH2? yeah from the University of GOOGLE.

n30 im seriously doubting your intelligence friend. these so called fanatics you talk about describe singh2 etc perfectly. you only have to look at their last couple of responses.

Singh2 i havent even heard of Sumer Singh, because i dont read bullshit written by others I only read the Original. And 'accept' the language in it. If you people want to run to others because you get scared when Guru uses -'GASP!'- a 'Hindu' word and you need some made up explanation or excuse for it thats your choice. but in the process you have become the chela of that 'scholar'.

it is filth like you who are 'anti-panthic'.

now your last hope is come out screaming 'oh he is RSS' so no one reads my stuff. oh well. im not on some 'heoric crusader' trip, you can delete my posts and ban me if you want i honestly dont give a shit.

I never say that i am a scholar.You may be a scholar. good to you. But do not teach us nonsense here that our Gurus ask boon from stone idols of Durga. Our Guru has written that he was an idol breaker. He asked us to follow shabda Guru.

satgur no sabh ko vaykh-daa jaytaa jagat sansaar.

All the living beings of the world behold the True Guru.

dithai mukat na hova-ee jichar sabad na karay veechaar.

One is not liberated by merely seeing Him, unless one contemplates the Word of His Shabad.

ang 594

Unlike your ideology to perpetuate caste system and you have stated that belief here,Our Gurus advised us

manas ki jaat sabhe eko pehchanbo

Recognise Humanity as one.

You are free to follow your belief system. We do not want you to peddle those here as sikh beliefs because they are not sikh but Hindu beliefs. There is fundamental difference between two. I leave the following for you from Prof Puran singh ji. Do not start cursing him as you have cursed kahan singh nabha for writing the truth.

Prof Puran singh ji wrote

"If the Sikh, as he was born, had ever been afforded opportunities of spiritual isolation from the rest of the world, to develop his powers of self-realisation, and his instincts of art and agriculture and colonisation, his would have been by now, one of the best societies of divinely inspired labourers, of saint-soldiers living by the sweat of their brow". "But Brahminism was there to engulf it from within. His political temper, the result of his complete mental liberation and his passionate love of liberty pitched him against the Mughals from the time of its birth. Out of the jaws of death, if the Khalsa has still come out, there is much hope for it yet. All is not yet lost".>>>>>>>>>

Edited August 26, 2009 by singh2

[singh2]

Do you speak the languages used by Guru Sahib? Have you studied how to interpret literature, especially poetry?

He may be knowing braj bhasha, sanskrit, persian and pUnjabi? May be he can tell us if he knows those..

But he wrote that he is studying Punjabi from a teacher who advises that a lady is addressed as a male out of respect in Punjabi. He thinks that is why Guru sahib wrote deb kalika maat hamara and not maat hamari. My point is that deb kalka is not any devi in physical form but akal purakh who is both father and mother.

He can see for himself that Durga is addressed in feminine terms below in Vaar sri Bhagauti ji ki. He can correct his teacher also if he really had one.

ਇਕ ਦਿਹਾੜੇ ਨ੍ਹਾਵਣ ਆਈ ਦੁਰਗਸਾਹ ॥

इक दिहाड़े न्हावण आई दुरगसाह ॥

One day Durga came for a bath.

ਦੁਰਗਾ ਬੈਣ ਸੁਣੰਦੀ ਹੱਸੀ ਹੜਹੜਾਇ ॥

ਕਉਣੁ ਵਿਚਾਰੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਣੁ ਸੱਜਿਆ ॥੧੬॥

ਹੋਈ ਅਲੋਪ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਦੇਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ॥

ਆਈ ਫੇਰਿ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਖਬਰੀ ਪਾਈਆਂ ॥

ਰੋਹਿ ਭਵਾਨੀ ਆਈ ਉਤੇ ਰਾਕਸਾਂ ॥

ਬੈਠੇ ਮਤਾ ਪਕਾਏ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਲਿਆਵਣੀ ॥

[shaheediyan]

Navjot Ji,

What is Durga? Its not a trick question, I feel there may be crossed wires in this thread, I would be interested in your complete understanding of what Durga is in Hindu (I use the word loosely) mat and Durga in Guru Mat.

Dhanvaad Jeeo.

[shaheediyan]

"We should be silent infront of GurBani. Not use it to incaluclate our own biases into people"

Profound indeed. Looking at this statement in isolation of the topic - it is amazing - something we should do and something we are all guilty of.

Thanks.

[singh2]

Sant Baba Jarnail singh ji's interpretation of these terms in Dasam granth

http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option...h&Itemid=63

[singh2]

In the following video Baba Niahal singh Harianvela clarifies these terms in light of Gurmat and handwritten manuscripts

the meaning of kalka. See from minutes 19 onwards. He also alleges that it is RSS who is causing mischief by misinterpreting

these terms on purpose and need to be confronted. Nobody knows Dasam Granth better than Nihung sikhs.

A must see video

[shaheediyan]

Singh2, are you able to find kathaa by Akali Baba Santa Singh Ji, I believe their vidya would be most authentic to date (on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib).

I agre with your comments re the Nihangs, they are certainly the true custodians of Dasmesh Pitas Bani - in both its forms.

[Kaljug]

Singh2, are you able to find kathaa by Akali Baba Santa Singh Ji, I believe their vidya would be most authentic to date (on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib).

I agre with your comments re the Nihangs, they are certainly the true custodians of Dasmesh Pitas Bani - in both its forms.

Fateh!

See here for an essay on the Nihang understanding of Shiva-Shakti:

http://nihangsingh.org/Shiv-Shakti.html

See in particular the quote from Baba Santa Singh's katha on Dasam Granth:

"We call that Shakti what Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji has written is the mother of the universe and who has created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva (quotes 30th verse of Japji Sahib). God being confined within himself gave hukam (command) for his power to become manifest, that Shakti created the whole world and thus takes the form of the mother… some worship Shakti as Bhavani, others as Kalika and others as Chandi. We worship this shakti in the form of our weapons." (Audio Recording, April 1995)

He makes it clear that Shakti for Sikhs is Parmesar Himself.

See also the pankti from Guru Granth Sahib which explains the play of Shiv-Shakti being beneath Waheguru (and not identical with Him):

'There is no Shiva or Shakti, no water or wind, no world of form where the True Guru, the Yogi, dwells, where the Imperishable Lord Vaheguru, the Unapproachable Master abides.' (Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 883)

Regards,

K.

[Mithar]

In the following video Baba Niahal singh Harianvela clarifies these terms in light of Gurmat and handwritten manuscripts

the meaning of kalka. See from minutes 19 onwards. He also alleges that it is RSS who is causing mischief by misinterpreting

these terms on purpose and need to be confronted. Nobody knows Dasam Granth better than Nihung sikhs.

A must see video

It is interesting to see how Baba Nihal Singh Jee has done ucharan of the term "Kalka" in that video. He is done Padshed of Kalka as "Kaal Kaa", as two seperate words which would completely change the meaning. I am inclined to agree with Baba Nihal Singh Jee on how he has done Padshed of Kalka as Kaal Kaa.

[singh2]

Fateh!

See here for an essay on the Nihang understanding of Shiva-Shakti:

http://nihangsingh.org/Shiv-Shakti.html

See in particular the quote from Baba Santa Singh's katha on Dasam Granth:

"We call that Shakti what Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji has written is the mother of the universe and who has created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva (quotes 30th verse of Japji Sahib). God being confined within himself gave hukam (command) for his power to become manifest, that Shakti created the whole world and thus takes the form of the mother… some worship Shakti as Bhavani, others as Kalika and others as Chandi. We worship this shakti in the form of our weapons." (Audio Recording, April 1995)

He makes it clear that Shakti for Sikhs is Parmesar Himself.

See also the pankti from Guru Granth Sahib which explains the play of Shiv-Shakti being beneath Waheguru (and not identical with Him):

'There is no Shiva or Shakti, no water or wind, no world of form where the True Guru, the Yogi, dwells, where the Imperishable Lord Vaheguru, the Unapproachable Master abides.' (Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 883)

Regards,

K.

If one reads Dasam granth carefully there is no room left for any doubt. Guru sahib also terms chandi as sword in vaar sri Bhagauti ji ki.

in the same verse we have deity Durga and chandi thereby clarifying it beyond any doubt.

ਧੂਹਿ ਲਈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਮਿਆਨ ਤੇ ॥

धूहि लई क्रिपाणी दुरगा मिआन ते ॥

Durga pulled her sword from the scabbard.

ਚੰਡੀ ਰਾਕਸਿ ਖਾਣੀ ਵਾਹੀ ਦੈਤ ਨੂੰ ॥

चंडी राकसि खाणी वाही दैत नूं ॥

She struck the very heavy blow of sword, the slayer of demons

ਕੋਪਰ ਚੂਰਿ ਚਵਾਣੀ ਲੱਥੀ ਕਰਗ ਲੈ ॥

कोपर चूरि चवाणी ल्थी करग लै ॥

It broke the skull and face into pieces and pierced through the skeleton

Var sri Bhaguati ji

Edited August 26, 2009 by singh2

[singh2]

He makes it clear that Shakti for Sikhs is Parmesar Himself.

ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਦੇਹੀ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਏ ॥

Siva saktee dehee mahi paaye:

Both Spirit and matter , are placed into the body

ang 1056

ਆਪੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਸੰਜੋਗੀ ॥:

Aapae siva saktee sanjogee:

The Supreme Being Himself is the Uniter of Spirit and matter

ang 1150

ਆਪੇ ਸਕਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਸੁਰਤਾ ਸਕਤੀ ਜਗਤੁ ਪਰੋਵਹਿ ॥

Aape saktaa aape surataa saktee jagatu parovahi

You Yourself are All-powerful, the Intuitive Knower and the Sakti; on which the whole world is strung

ang 1242

[singh2]

I got one Pm supporting navjot2 for his misguided theories. That is from khalsa fauj. That goes a long way to prove that birds of a feather flock together.

[Kaljug]

I got one Pm supporting navjot2 for his misguided theories. That is from khalsa fauj. That goes a long way to prove that birds of a feather flock together.

Fateh!

Their arguments are two sides of the same rusty old Bahman coin: one preaches that Dasam Granth teaches that Sikhs are to indulge in Hindu practices like the worship of Devi to ensure that Sikhi is merged into the fold of Hindumat; the other wants us to abandon the Granth that tears apart the Hindu religion by exposing the avatars for the failed egotistical beings that they are, the same Granth that makes it absolutely clear that Sikhi is teesra Panth.

Here's an article by Kamalroop Singh which makes makes this distinction of Sikhi as a separate and unique path:

http://neo-sikhism.blogspot.com/2008/11/ar...-or-muslim.html

Here's another nice article from Kamalroop Singh about the battle between Kharag Singh and Shiva, in which Kharag Singh is the Khalsa Panth and Shiva is the Hindu sect:

http://neo-sikhism.blogspot.com/2008/11/kh...nd-shiv-ji.html

Regards,

K.

[Kaljug]

when did i say siksh are a hindu sect? you are projecting your own 'enemy of sikhism' fantasies that get you so excited

You don't have to say it, my Hindu friend, you just have to imply it by claiming that there is no issue with being a Sikh and worshipping stones, or that Dasmesh Pita propitiated some Hindu goddess.

Matey, you are the one getting all excited by some fictional multi-armed chick from heaven, and you claim I am the one with the fantasies? Bwahahaha!

And please keep throwing around your Hinduphobe and fanatic labels for anyone who disagrees with your ridiculous RSS-inspired theories. In the absence of evidence and proof, hurling such insults is the only thing holding your posts together.

K.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Kaljug

[Kaljug]

Fateh!

A discussion of what the word Shiv represents in Sikhi, from Kamalroop Singh's blog again:

In Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji, Guru Gobind Singh uses the words Shiv Sarup. If we look up Shiv in Mahan Kosh it means, immaculate, pure, unblemished. Baba Santa Singh also says:

"Khalsa is Shiva Sarup, Parmatma Da Rup" In his exegesis of Sri Sarbloh Granth. Also see Deh Shiva shabad. As well as Bhai Sahib Bhai Balbir Singhs explanation of it, Bhai Sahib was brought up in the Buddha Dal from the times of Akali Baba Chet Singh Ji:

http://www.gurmarag.net/SikhAwareness/Audi...%20Part%201.mp3

http://www.gurmarag.net/SikhAwareness/Audi...%20Part%202.mp3

Guru Gobind Singh states in the Bhai Prahlad Singh rahitnama, "the Khalsa is the form of Akal Purukh". Since when has Sri Akal been Shiv Ji? Guru Ji creates names like Mahaloh, Sarbloh, to praise Akal Purukh. None of these names are found in Puranic literature, including the Shiva Puran. The translation found on shastarvidiya.org that Akal is from Shiva Ji, is not recorded in even the Garbganji tika of Sri Jap ji Sahib, by the Nirmala Sikh, Kavi Santokh Singh Ji. The Nirmala Sikhs used Hindu mythological literary characters to teach about Sikhi. There are also injunctions in the rahitnamas, " do not associate with the Aghoris, or Yogis".

Furthermore on the ang of Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji, where it states Khalsa is Shiv Sarup, Guru Ji also states that the Khalsa is the form of Nirankar. Furthermore at the end of the euology of the Khalsa, Guru Ji states:

Khalsa Akal Purukh Ki Fauj

Pargatio Khalsa Paratam Ki Mauj.

What has this go to do with Shiv Ji? Akal Purukh is Vahiguru, Parmatam is the super-soul.

In conclusion, these are vain attempts to redefine traditional Sikhi of the Khalsa army, the Buddha Dal, into the worldview of the Hindu pantheon of demi-Gods. The gurbani of Dasam Granth Sahib Ji and Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji state clearly:

Mai Na Ganeshe Pritham Manaoo

Kishan Bisan Kaboo Na Dhiaoo.

I will not invoke Ganesh first.

Nor will I meditate of Krishna or Vishnu.

One of the main prayers of any Akali Nihang Singh is Sri Akal Ustat Sahib. It is one of the prayers a true Nihang Singh must memorise. See Akali Baba Daya Singh rahitnama. Guru Gobind Singh Ji told the beloved army of the Guru, the ladlia Fauja, that when you read Sri Akal Ustat Sahib, it is me speaking it through you, the Khalsa. Guru Ji states in the Sri Akal Ustat Sahib, compared to Sri Akal,

Ik Shiv Bhey Ik Gaiy Ik Phir Bhey Ramchander Krishan Ki Avatar bhe Anek Hai....... millions of Shiv come and go in the cycle of reincarnation.

Then Guru ji says Mahakal you are my protector, I meditate on your charan kamal. This is Akal Purukh. Furthermore in Anand Sahib, Guru Amar Das Ji states in Rag Ramkali:

Shiv Sakat Ap Upai Ke.

God creates the play of Shiv and Shakti. Hence Vahiguru is not subject to his own play. He is the creator of Shiv Ji, Vishnu Ji, Brahma Ji, Vahiguru transcends all of the millions of Gods. Guru Gobind Singh's is clearly talking about Akal Purukh Vahiguru.

In the Sikh worldview, as opposed to the Hindu worldview, the devtas failed in their mission to get humanity to praise Vahiguru. See Bachitra Natak Granth also see Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib. Guru Gobind Singh is firm that Sri Vishnu inspired people to repeat his own name, as did Shiva Ji et al. This is reiterated in Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji, that Guru Nanak Ap Parmesvar, had to become manifest to put people back onto the correct path, of praising Vahiguru. These are the holy words of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Please listen to the Katha of Sri Sarboh Granth Sahib Ji by the late Akali Baba Santa Singh Ji, this will clear up any misconception to what the Khalsa army, the Buddha Dal actually believes. In this Katha Baba Ji explaining this shabad of Sri Sarbloh Granth Ji states:

"Khalsa is the form of a Rishi. Muni. Bhagat. Yogi. Raja. Kstriya. In one. It is the complete form. A Sage, Hermit, Saint, Ascetic, King, Warrior in One."

As the Khalsa is all of these forms, the Khalsa cannot be said to one in particular, the Khalsa transcends all of them, hence the form of the Khalsa is Nirankar, it is the form of the Guru. The Khalsa is the son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, not the son of Shiv Ji. The sons of Shiv Ji are the ascetic Yogi's.

http://www.keertan.org/andromeda.php?q=f&a...C+Akaali+Nihang

In the words of Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the Bhai Prahlad rahitnama:

Guru Khalsa Maniye, Pargat Guru Ki Deh.

Believe in the Guru Khalsa, this is the manifest corporeal body of the Guru.

(Corrected by Ram Singh Nihang)

Regards,

K.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Kaljug

[singh2]

Fateh!

A discussion of what the word Shiv represents in Sikhi, from Kamalroop Singh's blog again:

In Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji, Guru Gobind Singh uses the words Shiv Sarup. If we look up Shiv in Mahan Kosh it means, immaculate, pure, unblemished. Baba Santa Singh also says:

"Khalsa is Shiva Sarup, Parmatma Da Rup" In his exegesis of Sri Sarbloh Granth. Also see Deh Shiva shabad. As well as Bhai Sahib Bhai Balbir Singhs explanation of it, Bhai Sahib was brought up in the Buddha Dal from the times of Akali Baba Chet Singh Ji:

http://www.gurmarag.net/SikhAwareness/Audi...%20Part%201.mp3

http://www.gurmarag.net/SikhAwareness/Audi...%20Part%202.mp3

Guru Gobind Singh states in the Bhai Prahlad Singh rahitnama, "the Khalsa is the form of Akal Purukh". Since when has Sri Akal been Shiv Ji? Guru Ji creates names like Mahaloh, Sarbloh, to praise Akal Purukh. None of these names are found in Puranic literature, including the Shiva Puran. The translation found on shastarvidiya.org that Akal is from Shiva Ji, is not recorded in even the Garbganji tika of Sri Jap ji Sahib, by the Nirmala Sikh, Kavi Santokh Singh Ji. The Nirmala Sikhs used Hindu mythological literary characters to teach about Sikhi. There are also injunctions in the rahitnamas, " do not associate with the Aghoris, or Yogis".

Furthermore on the ang of Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji, where it states Khalsa is Shiv Sarup, Guru Ji also states that the Khalsa is the form of Nirankar. Furthermore at the end of the euology of the Khalsa, Guru Ji states:

Khalsa Akal Purukh Ki Fauj

Pargatio Khalsa Paratam Ki Mauj.

What has this go to do with Shiv Ji? Akal Purukh is Vahiguru, Parmatam is the super-soul.

In conclusion, these are vain attempts to redefine traditional Sikhi of the Khalsa army, the Buddha Dal, into the worldview of the Hindu pantheon of demi-Gods. The gurbani of Dasam Granth Sahib Ji and Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji state clearly:

Mai Na Ganeshe Pritham Manaoo

Kishan Bisan Kaboo Na Dhiaoo.

I will not invoke Ganesh first.

Nor will I meditate of Krishna or Vishnu.

One of the main prayers of any Akali Nihang Singh is Sri Akal Ustat Sahib. It is one of the prayers a true Nihang Singh must memorise. See Akali Baba Daya Singh rahitnama. Guru Gobind Singh Ji told the beloved army of the Guru, the ladlia Fauja, that when you read Sri Akal Ustat Sahib, it is me speaking it through you, the Khalsa. Guru Ji states in the Sri Akal Ustat Sahib, compared to Sri Akal,

Ik Shiv Bhey Ik Gaiy Ik Phir Bhey Ramchander Krishan Ki Avatar bhe Anek Hai....... millions of Shiv come and go in the cycle of reincarnation.

Then Guru ji says Mahakal you are my protector, I meditate on your charan kamal. This is Akal Purukh. Furthermore in Anand Sahib, Guru Amar Das Ji states in Rag Ramkali:

Shiv Sakat Ap Upai Ke.

God creates the play of Shiv and Shakti. Hence Vahiguru is not subject to his own play. He is the creator of Shiv Ji, Vishnu Ji, Brahma Ji, Vahiguru transcends all of the millions of Gods. Guru Gobind Singh's is clearly talking about Akal Purukh Vahiguru.

In the Sikh worldview, as opposed to the Hindu worldview, the devtas failed in their mission to get humanity to praise Vahiguru. See Bachitra Natak Granth also see Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib. Guru Gobind Singh is firm that Sri Vishnu inspired people to repeat his own name, as did Shiva Ji et al. This is reiterated in Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji, that Guru Nanak Ap Parmesvar, had to become manifest to put people back onto the correct path, of praising Vahiguru. These are the holy words of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Please listen to the Katha of Sri Sarboh Granth Sahib Ji by the late Akali Baba Santa Singh Ji, this will clear up any misconception to what the Khalsa army, the Buddha Dal actually believes. In this Katha Baba Ji explaining this shabad of Sri Sarbloh Granth Ji states:

"Khalsa is the form of a Rishi. Muni. Bhagat. Yogi. Raja. Kstriya. In one. It is the complete form. A Sage, Hermit, Saint, Ascetic, King, Warrior in One."

As the Khalsa is all of these forms, the Khalsa cannot be said to one in particular, the Khalsa transcends all of them, hence the form of the Khalsa is Nirankar, it is the form of the Guru. The Khalsa is the son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, not the son of Shiv Ji. The sons of Shiv Ji are the ascetic Yogi's.

http://www.keertan.org/andromeda.php?q=f&a...C+Akaali+Nihang

In the words of Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the Bhai Prahlad rahitnama:

Guru Khalsa Maniye, Pargat Guru Ki Deh.

Believe in the Guru Khalsa, this is the manifest corporeal body of the Guru.

(Corrected by Ram Singh Nihang)

Regards,

K.

Shiv in Gurbani always mean akal purakh who does not take birth and does not die.

ਸਿਵ ਸਿਵ ਕਰਤ ਸਗਲ ਕਰ ਜੋਰਹਿ ਸਰਬ ਮਇਆ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਤੇਰੀ ਦੋਹੀ ॥:

Siva siva karat sagal kar jorahi sarab maiaa thaakur teree dohee:

Everyone calls upon You with their palms pressed together, chanting Your Name, "Siva Siva". O Merciful Lord, everyone cries out for Your Help

ang 207 SGGS

Whenever shiv means as hindu demigod shiv in Gurbani , he is qualified or he comes in company of other demigods

ਸਵ ਬਿਰੰਚਿ ਅਸੁਰ ਸੁਰ ਜੇਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਅਗਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਜਰਤੇ ॥:

Siva biranchi asur sur jete kaal agan mahi jarate:

Shiva, Brahma, angels and demons, all burn in the fire of death

Ang 1267 SGGS

[navjot2]

Do you speak the languages used by Guru Sahib? Have you studied how to interpret literature, especially poetry?

this is called an excuse. why do you think Gurus words to you/sangat need to be 'interpreted'? you have been brainwashed to think that way by people with ideological interests

what will happen if you take it as its written? have you ever thought to?

[navjot2]

He told you this is an open forum for any opinion so untwist your panties, sit down and stop hyperventilating.

its the way he said it, just like the way you say it

[singh2]

this is called an excuse. why do you think Gurus words to you/sangat need to be 'interpreted'? you have been brainwashed to think that way by people with ideological interests

what will happen if you take it as its written? have you ever thought to?

So that it may be easy for RSS thugs of nagpur to misinterpret those .

Edited August 27, 2009 by singh2

[navjot2]

singh2

firstly i studied panjabi when i was younger at panjabi school. maybe if you did that you wouldnt have to run to 'giana- jani-translated-dot-click '. and i already told you just ebcause you assert something doesnt make it true orr have any discursive value.

theres a difference between describing someone (as in an epithet) and adressing someone (where terms of respect are used). Even in common hindi phrasing they say 'hamara maat pita'.

Why use the words Kalika with the reference to Kal? Because he is differentiaitng Shiv and Shakti.

I think this is going over your head.

[navjot2]

So that it may be easy for RSS thugs of nagpur to misinterpret those .

so you dont think Gurus words can stand on their own?

[navjot2]

We are not grading her low or high. We say that Guru sahib does not seek boon from Durga or anyothyer deity.

He advises otehrs not to do that.

ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥

क्रिसन औ बिसन जपे तुहि कोटिक राम रहीम भली बिधि धिआयो ॥

Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਹਿ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥

ब्रहम जपिओ अरु स्मभु थपिओ तहि ते तुहि को किनहूं न बचायो ॥

Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee.

ਕੋਟ ਕਰੀ ਤਪਸਾ ਦਿਨ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨ ਕੌਡੀ ਕੋ ਕਾਮ ਕਢਾਯੋ ॥

कोट करी तपसा दिन कोटिक काहूं न कौडी को काम कढायो ॥

Thou hast observed millions of austerities for millions of days, but thou couldst not be recompensed even for the value of a couldst not be recompensed even for the value of a cowrie.

ਕਾਮਕੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਕਸੀਰੇ ਕੇ ਕਾਮ ਨ ਕਾਲ ਕੋ ਘਾਉ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥੯੭॥

कामकु मंत्र कसीरे के काम न काल को घाउ किनहूं न बचायो ॥९७॥

The Mantra recited for fulfillment of worldly desires doth not even bring the least gain and none of such Mantras can`t save from the blow of KAL.97.

ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਕੂਰ ਕਰੈ ਤਪਸਾ ਇਨ ਕੀ ਕੋਊ ਕੌਡੀ ਕੇ ਕਾਮ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥

काहे को कूर करै तपसा इन की कोऊ कौडी के काम न ऐहै ॥

Why doth thou indulge in false austerities, because they will not bring in gain of even one cowrie.

ਤੋਹਿ ਬਚਾਇ ਸਕੈ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਕੈ ਆਪਨ ਘਾਵ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥

तोहि बचाइ सकै कहु कैसे कै आपन घाव बचाइ न ऐहै ॥

The cannot save themselves form the blow (of KAL), how can they protect thee?

and then further

ਤਾਹਿ ਪਛਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਨ ਮਹਾ ਪਸੁ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਤਿਹੂੰ ਪੁਰ ਮਾਹੀ ॥

ताहि पछानत है न महा पसु जा को प्रतापु तिहूं पुर माही ॥

O foolish beast! Thou doth not recognize Him, Whose Glory hath spread over all the three worlds.

ਪੂਜਤ ਹੈ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੇ ਪਰਸੈ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਪਰਾਹੀ ॥

पूजत है परमेसर कै जिह के परसै परलोक पराही ॥

Thou worshippest those deities as God, by whose touch thou shalt be driven far away from the next world.

ਪਾਪ ਕਰੋ ਪਰਮਾਰਥ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਪਾਪਨ ਤੇ ਅਤਿ ਪਾਪ ਲਜਾਹੀ ॥

पाप करो परमारथ कै जिह पापन ते अति पाप लजाही ॥

Thou art committing such sins in th name of parmarath (the subtle truth) that by committing them the Great sins may feel shy.

ਪਾਇ ਪਰੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕੇ ਜੜ ਪਾਹਨ ਮੈਂ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਨਾਹੀ ॥੯੯॥

पाइ परो परमेसर के जड़ पाहन मैं परमेसर नाही ॥९९॥

O fool! Fall at the feet of Lord-God, the Lord is not within the stone-idols.99.

Bachitra natak

bowing to the paath quoted, i point out to you that Durga/Devi isnt mentioned here, because as i have already mentioned, Devi represents Akal's own Power.

Are you aware that Parmaartha, Paramesar etc are only used in Hindu religion?

[singh2]

bowing to the paath quoted, i point out to you that Durga/Devi isnt mentioned here, because as i have already mentioned, Devi represents Akal's own Power.

Are you aware that Parmaartha, Paramesar etc are only used in Hindu religion?

For sikhs durga devi has no significance. She is a slave of the house of Guru nanak.

Parmarth and prameshavar are Indian words and belong as much to sikhs as to hinuds. Hindus have not got any patent on these words. if so please show us.

Edited August 27, 2009 by singh2

[navjot2]

If one reads Dasam granth carefully there is no room left for any doubt. Guru sahib also terms chandi as sword in vaar sri Bhagauti ji ki.

in the same verse we have deity Durga and chandi thereby clarifying it beyond any doubt.

ਧੂਹਿ ਲਈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਮਿਆਨ ਤੇ ॥

धूहि लई क्रिपाणी दुरगा मिआन ते ॥

Durga pulled her sword from the scabbard.

ਚੰਡੀ ਰਾਕਸਿ ਖਾਣੀ ਵਾਹੀ ਦੈਤ ਨੂੰ ॥

चंडी राकसि खाणी वाही दैत नूं ॥

She struck the very heavy blow of sword, the slayer of demons

ਕੋਪਰ ਚੂਰਿ ਚਵਾਣੀ ਲੱਥੀ ਕਰਗ ਲੈ ॥

कोपर चूरि चवाणी ल्थी करग लै ॥

It broke the skull and face into pieces and pierced through the skeleton

Var sri Bhaguati ji

First line refers to Durga, second line refers to Chandi. maybe you need to go learn how to read Gurmukhi.

"ਚੰਡੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਦੁਹੂੰ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੀਨੋ ਇਹੈ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥

Chandi and Kali both together took this decision;

"ਹਉ ਹਨਿਹੋ ਤੂੰ ਸ੍ਰਉਨ ਪੀ ਅਰਿ ਦਲਿ ਡਾਰਹਿ ਮਾਰਿ ॥੧੬੭॥"

I shall kill the demons and thou drinkest their blood; in this way we shall kill all the enemies."167.

page 220

i.e. Chandi, Kali and Durga are different Devi manifestations.

"ਨਿਰਖ ਚੰਡਕਾ ਤਾਸ ਕੋ ਤਬੈ ਬਚਨ ਇਹ ਕੀਨ ॥"

Chandika, seeing her, thus spoke to her;

"ਹੇ ਪੁਤ੍ਰੀ ਤੂੰ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਹੋਹੁ ਜੁ ਮੁਝ ਮੈ ਲੀਨ ॥੭੬॥"

O my daughter Kalika, merge in me.76.

As from above Kali arose from Chandi, likewise Chandi from Durga (if i recall corectly).