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Is Selling Alcohol Or Any Other Drug For A Sikh Right Or Wrong


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Well the question is simple. But the answer here seems very simple to me aswell, but instead of just answering yes or no. Given reasons why it is right/wrong or quote Gurbani for either side. I was having a discussion with the spn team at spn and they didn't like the fact that i said it is wrong. And they closed the thread. :rolleyes: Give me your opinion whether you agree with me or not.

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Why would you sell it and encourage others to commit stupid acts? Its like selling guns to left and right and not taking responsobility when some jackass starts killing people with the very same gun you gave him.. in my view it is wrong

Edited by amardeep
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Answer is pretty straight forward but lets play devil's advocate- is selling medical drug which contains drugs mentioned above for a sikh right or wrong? how do you differentiate the above scenario with this one- is selling medical drug which contains drugs mentioned above for a sikh? right or wrong?

Is answers to both scenarios is wrong/right or is right and other one is wrong?? which drives this right or wrong answers, is it soceity or intent? Gurbani is not a rule book. It's agad bodh atma gyan.

Here is another one, amritdhari singh is a truck driver, he gets all different types of load because he is stand by on dispatch, should he refuse to take the load which carries packaged beef/meat or packaged alcohol or tobacco ?

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You know, the amount of people from Sikh backgrounds that own Off Licences in the UK is HUGE. A few decades ago you could say they cornered the market.

If selling booze/cigarettes is wrong for Sikhs (I can imagine selling cigarettes/tobacco being prohibited), than someone never told a whole heap of people. Or they don't care.

Funny(??!) thing a few years ago I went to an Off Licence in Southall and there was a old Singh (who actually looked Amritdhari), sitting behind the till, watching a video of kirtan on a TV next to him, selling fags and booze. I'm not being judgemental but it seemed strange in a way I couldn't describe.

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i (personally) think that its bad for those who are buying rather than the ones selling, as long as they arent being forced or encouraged to buy things like that. banning these things will just encourage more bad actions as people expect others to stop them rather than developing the self-will to not do these things.

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Answer is pretty straight forward but lets play devil's advocate- is selling medical drug which contains drugs mentioned above for a sikh right or wrong? how do you differentiate the above scenario with this one- is selling medical drug which contains drugs mentioned above for a sikh? right or wrong?

Is answers to both scenarios is wrong/right or is right and other one is wrong?? which drives this right or wrong answers, is it soceity or intent? Gurbani is not a rule book. It's agad bodh atma gyan.

Here is another one, amritdhari singh is a truck driver, he gets all different types of load because he is stand by on dispatch, should he refuse to take the load which carries packaged beef/meat or packaged alcohol or tobacco ?

SIngh, it is all about the person intent; like you have said. To sell alcohol drinks for an Sikh is an straight forward answer and it is wrong. The intent of selling this alcohol is wrong as it will be used for getting a buzz or drunk.

Taking medical drugs for medical reason has nothing wrong with it. Because the intent is to take the medicine to heal the peron. But if your sitting at your moms house taking medical drugs for kicks then it is wrong.

And the last scenrio is an interesting one. But again the answer is simple. IT is wrong since that alcohol will be consumed for the wrong reasons. Now if that alcohol would be used for medical reason and delivered to a medical faculty then I see nothing wrong with it.

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Say if a Sikh owns a Gas station in the west. They will have to sell cigarettes. Can a Sikh do that?

That's true if you own/run a franchise branch gas station you will have too sell cigarettes. So the SIkh has to decide is money more important to him/her or following Guru Sahib. The answer comes simple, but some Sikhs have a tough time deciding and at the end some choose the first and end up selling cigarettes. Alternative here would be to open a gas station that is privately owned by the SIkh, which isn't always easy in a highly competitive market.

Do we as SIkh forget about our moral and values that we have been taught and go for money or make less money and hold Guru Sahib teaching above everything.

To solve this problem SIkhs should open a franchise of gas stations. Could be just in UK first or in Canada.

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i (personally) think that its bad for those who are buying rather than the ones selling, as long as they arent being forced or encouraged to buy things like that. banning these things will just encourage more bad actions as people expect others to stop them rather than developing the self-will to not do these things.

HSD, if your the one selling then you also are contributing to the problem. If your gas station wasn't selling then maybe there is a chance the person wouldn't buy alcohol that day. Sure they can go to the other gast station or whatever, but there is a cost attached to getting there. In some cases the cost can be high and in others it'll be low. Whether the person gets it from another source should be really out of the picture because as Sikhs we don't consume alcohol and neither do we provide others alcohol. IT comes down to making an honest living.

Edited by Only five
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so what next then? we dont live in purely sikh countries. we can deter them, but if its what they want, what right do we have to force our beliefs on them? next we will have sikhs who work in tescos saying they cant touch meat packets or alcohol bottles or tobacco is not allowed within ten metres of every sikh. what is actually wrong with it? if it said in gurbani that we shouldnt supply, then fair enough, otherwise we have to be realistic.

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so what next then? we dont live in purely sikh countries. we can deter them, but if its what they want, what right do we have to force our beliefs on them? next we will have sikhs who work in tescos saying they cant touch meat packets or alcohol bottles or tobacco is not allowed within ten metres of every sikh. what is actually wrong with it? if it said in gurbani that we shouldnt supply, then fair enough, otherwise we have to be realistic.

That employment thing is a strong point. I mean, you don't get Muslims working the tills in Asda refusing to handle the Walls Pork sausages when people buy them.

But when I was talking, I was talking about Sikhs who go out to buy an Off License, where the whole aim is to sell booze (and fags). It is not just a small part of what else goes on their but the main purpose.

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That employment thing is a strong point. I mean, you don't get Muslims working the tills in Asda refusing to handle the Walls Pork sausages when people buy them.

But when I was talking, I was talking about Sikhs who go out to buy an Off License, where the whole aim is to sell booze (and fags). It is not just a small part of what else goes on their but the main purpose.

well they are trying to achieve that status: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...ry-alcohol.html

i might go and buy some sausages and see what muslim staff say at the checkout.

as for buying offlicences, well it is bad to buy one just to sell those 2, but so is setting up a gurudwara just to pocket the money, like people often do now.

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Fair point. I must confess though. I grew up around some of those Off Licence wallay Sikhs. My first job was in a warehouse supplying most of the Panjabi owned Offies in London. I know most of the owners are straight forward, simple types. The common man from Panjab type thing. I have nothing against them.

When I was younger, they would sometimes impress me with the way the would defend their businesses from attacks...hehehehe

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so what next then? we dont live in purely sikh countries. we can deter them, but if its what they want, what right do we have to force our beliefs on them? next we will have sikhs who work in tescos saying they cant touch meat packets or alcohol bottles or tobacco is not allowed within ten metres of every sikh. what is actually wrong with it? if it said in gurbani that we shouldnt supply, then fair enough, otherwise we have to be realistic.

so what next then? we dont live in purely sikh countries. we can deter them, but if its what they want, what right do we have to force our beliefs on them?

Relax man no one is saying we force SIkhi on anyone.

On the rest what you wrote I have this to say about it. One of the three pillars of SIkhi is making an honest living. Now lets just explore what this means. What do we as Sikhs consider as honest. Not taking advantage of another, no tricking, fooling, or lying to another. And also not harming another in the process of making an honest living. When we provide someone with alcohol that we know is harmful mentally and physically we know it is wrong. Now lets change alcohol to cocaine. Both are drugs and since its alright to sell alcohol its just as right for a SIkh to sell cocaine to make a living. Here is a shabad that tackles the provider and user. THe drinker is struck down by the Lord what do you think will happen to the guy that provided the alcohol. Read this shabad carefully and it's clear the drinker and provider are punished equally if not the provider gets more.

slok mÚ 3 ]

salok ma 3 ||

Salok, Third Mehla:

mwxsu BirAw AwixAw mwxsu BirAw Awie ]

maanas bhariaa aaniaa maanas bhariaa aae ||

One person brings a full bottle, and another fills his cup.

ijqu pIqY miq dUir hoie brlu pvY ivic Awie ]

jith peethai math dhoor hoe baral pavai vich aae ||

Drinking the wine, his intelligence departs, and madness enters his mind;

Awpxw prwieAw n pCwxeI Ksmhu Dky Kwie ]

aapanaa paraaeiaa n pashhaanee khasamahu dhhakae khaae ||

he cannot distinguish between his own and others, and he is struck down by his Lord and Master.

ijqu pIqY Ksmu ivsrY drgh imlY sjwie ]

jith peethai khasam visarai dharageh milai sajaae ||

Drinking it, he forgets his Lord and Master, and he is punished in the Court of the Lord.

JUTw mdu mUil n pIceI jy kw pwir vswie ]

jhoot(h)aa madh mool n peechee jae kaa paar vasaae ||

Do not drink the false wine at all, if it is in your power.

nwnk ndrI scu mdu pweIAY siqguru imlY ijsu Awie ]

naanak nadharee sach madh paaeeai sathigur milai jis aae ||

O Nanak, the True Guru comes and meets the mortal; by His Grace, one obtains the True Wine.

sdw swihb kY rMig rhY mhlI pwvY Qwau ]1]

sadhaa saahib kai ra(n)g rehai mehalee paavai thhaao ||1||

He shall dwell forever in the Love of the Lord Master, and obtain a seat in the Mansion of His Presence. ||1|| ang sung 554

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That employment thing is a strong point. I mean, you don't get Muslims working the tills in Asda refusing to handle the Walls Pork sausages when people buy them.

But when I was talking, I was talking about Sikhs who go out to buy an Off License, where the whole aim is to sell booze (and fags). It is not just a small part of what else goes on their but the main purpose.

What Muslims do is as apart of there religion and it is NOT an example of a Sikh.

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  • 12 years later...
On 8/7/2009 at 12:59 AM, Only five said:

Well the question is simple. But the answer here seems very simple to me aswell, but instead of just answering yes or no. Given reasons why it is right/wrong or quote Gurbani for either side. I was having a discussion with the spn team at spn and they didn't like the fact that i said it is wrong. And they closed the thread. :rolleyes: Give me your opinion whether you agree with me or not.

 

On 8/7/2009 at 1:46 AM, SAadmin said:

Answer is pretty straight forward but lets play devil's advocate- is selling medical drug which contains drugs mentioned above for a sikh right or wrong? how do you differentiate the above scenario with this one- is selling medical drug which contains drugs mentioned above for a sikh? right or wrong?

 

Is answers to both scenarios is wrong/right or is right and other one is wrong?? which drives this right or wrong answers, is it soceity or intent? Gurbani is not a rule book. It's agad bodh atma gyan.

 

Here is another one, amritdhari singh is a truck driver, he gets all different types of load because he is stand by on dispatch, should he refuse to take the load which carries packaged beef/meat or packaged alcohol or tobacco ?

 

On 8/7/2009 at 1:37 PM, Mithar said:

Say if a Sikh owns a Gas station in the west. They will have to sell cigarettes. Can a Sikh do that?

 

On 8/7/2009 at 2:24 PM, dalsingh101 said:

You know, the amount of people from Sikh backgrounds that own Off Licences in the UK is HUGE. A few decades ago you could say they cornered the market.

 

If selling booze/cigarettes is wrong for Sikhs (I can imagine selling cigarettes/tobacco being prohibited), than someone never told a whole heap of people. Or they don't care.

 

Funny(??!) thing a few years ago I went to an Off Licence in Southall and there was a old Singh (who actually looked Amritdhari), sitting behind the till, watching a video of kirtan on a TV next to him, selling fags and booze. I'm not being judgemental but it seemed strange in a way I couldn't describe.

Tobacco and alcohol - big no-no for me. But it's true some people have little other option to make a living

BUT, those who DO have an option (e.g. those politicians in India who control these trades) - it's very wrong. 

I agree to some point that in Panjabi/Indian culture there is lack of morality when it comes to making money though. 

And if you want to own a gas station (which means you had a lot of money to start with) then if you really have morals, you would find a way of being unique and NOT sell cigarette and alcohol. Don't franchise, but be an independent gas station. 

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