Eka Maaee Jugat Viaaee

[The Khalsa Fauj]

ਏਕਾ ਮਾਈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵਿਆਈ ਤਿਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ ਇਕੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਭੰਡਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਲਾਏ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ॥ ਜਿਵ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਚਲਾਵੈ ਜਿਵ ਹੋਵੈ ਫੁਰਮਾਣੁ ॥ ਓਹੁ ਵੇਖੈ ਓਨਾ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਬਹੁਤਾ ਏਹੁ ਵਿਡਾਣੁ ॥ ਆਦੇਸੁ ਤਿਸੈ ਆਦੇਸੁ ॥ ਆਦਿ ਅਨੀਲੁ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਨਾਹਤਿ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਏਕੋ ਵੇਸੁ ॥ ੩੦॥

Meanings of some words:

Ekaa means one // Maaee means maayaa // Jugat means way, form // Veaaee means to join or connect // Tin means three // Chaylay means followers // Parvann means known or acceptable // Tin Chaylay means three qualities of maayaa // Parvaann means accepted // Ik means One but it refers to God here because there is an aunkar underneath the kakka // Sansaree means Creator // Bhandaaree means Provider // Deebaann means Court Holder

Tis means He // Vidaann means wonderful //

How do we know maee means maayaa?

ਮੁਈ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਈ ਹਉ ਖਰਾ ਸੁਖਾਲਾ ॥ (੪੭੬-੮, ਆਸਾ, ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)

My maaee (maaya within me) is dead; I am relieved.

ਮਾਇਆ ਮਾਈ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਪਰਸੂਤਿ ਜਮਾਇਆ ॥ (੧੦੬੬-੨, ਮਾਰੂ, ਮ: ੩)

Maayaa, the mother, gave birth to the three gunas, the three qualities.

God is the creator based on Gurbani and not Brahma.

ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੇ ਕੀ ਸਾਚੀ ਕਾਰ ॥ (੭-੫, ਜਪੁ, ਮ: ੧)

Having created the creation, the Creator God watches over it. Nanak, True is the creation of the True Lord.

ਤੂੰ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ਮੈਡਾ ਸਾਂਈ ॥ (੧੧-੧੪, ਆਸਾ, ਮ: ੪)

Oh my Master Lord! You are the True Creator.

God is the only provider as per Gurbani. How do we know what ik refers to God here? There is an aunkar below the kakka in Ik. It is the same as the quotes below:

ਸਭਨਾ ਜੀਆ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸੋ ਮੈ ਵਿਸਰਿ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥ ੫॥ (੨-੧੦, ਜਪੁ, ਮ: ੧)

One God is the only provider of all beings; May I never forget Him. 5.

ਦਦਾ ਦਾਤਾ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਕਉ ਦੇਵਨਹਾਰ ॥ (੨੫੭-੧੦, ਗਉੜੀ, ਮ: ੫)

Dadda: God is the only provider; God gives to all.

Deebaann is sometimes translated as destroyer but that is not true. Deebaann means court.

Gurbani says there is only one court of God. Gurbani quote below gives further proof that the Ika Sansari, Ika Bhandari, Ik Laaye Deebaann quote is referring to God.

ਹਰਿ ਇਕੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਇਕੁ ਇਕੋ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ਹਰਿ ॥ (੮੩-੬, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, ਮ: ੩)

All-pervading God is the Sole Creator; there is only one Court of the One All-pervading Lord.

One maaya gave way / form to three gunas (attributes of maayaa) came into existence; they have been accepted (by the world over God meaning humans have given more preference to maayaa than God). God is the Sole Creator, God is the Sole Provider for all and God is the Sole Evaluator in His Court. God operates according to His liking based on His Divine Command. (Had it been three deities controlling the creation, it would have been jiv tin bhaavai but the word is Tis with an aunkar underneath). God sees all but he isn’t seen by others; this is the great wonder! I bow, I bow to Him. The Primal One, the Pure Light, without beginning, without end; throughout time, He is the One and the Same. 30

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Khalsa Fauj Jee!

You explained "Maaee means maayaa"

Please ponder. Guru Raam Daas Jee is singing.

ਮਾਈ ਮੋਰੋ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ ਰਾਮੁ ਬਤਾਵਹੁ ਰੀ ਮਾਈ ॥

माई मोरो प्रीतमु रामु बतावहु री माई ॥

maaee moro preetamu raamu bataavahu ree maaee. sggs ang 369

Is Gurdev asking Maayaa the address or whereabouts of Raam?

*****

Also, you explained "Ik means One but it refers to God here because there is an aunkar underneath the kakka"

Please listen. Guru Naanak Dev Jee is singing.

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਇਕ ਦੂ ਇਕੁ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥

नानक आखणि सभु को आखै इक दू इकु सिआणा ॥

naanak aakhan sabhu kao aakhai ik doo iku siaaNaa. sggs ang 5

Is Gurdev referring here One God or many?

*****

ਏਕਾ ਮਾਈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵਿਆਈ ਤਿਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ ਇਕੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਭੰਡਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਲਾਏ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ॥

In the last paragraph you explained "One maaya gave way / form to three gunas (attributes of maayaa) came into existence; they have been accepted (by the world over God meaning humans have given more preference to maayaa than God). God is the Sole Creator, God is the Sole Provider for all and God is the Sole Evaluator in His Court."

Did one maaee (maayaa) gave way to three Gods the Sole Creator, the Sole Provider and the Sole Evaluator in His Court?

Please elaborate and oblige.

Balbir Singh

[Matheen]

.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Matheen

[Kam1825]

What a joke, it was a joke initially when you put this on your blog let alone post it here.

Your Hangta makes only your arths right and all others wrong!

So for the last 305 years all the arths were wrong and now you have had the divine revelation to lead us down your righteous path saving us from damnation.

I suggest when Prof Sahib appears before the takhats to prove the dasam granth wrong in front of the 11 member committee which are readuy and waiting, can you also go along and explain how you came to your conclusion and how the sampardai arths for the last 305 years have mislead us.

Do you not understand that Jap Ji sahib is a question and answer between Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and the Sidhs. Where is the question asked between each pangti and before the pauri? I think you should post those so the arths you have done may fit into the contaxt!

[shaheediyan]

In other contexts within Gurbani, ਦੀਬਾਣੁ means ਇਨਸਾਫ਼ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ (also per Bhai Kahn Singh).

This easily equates with destroyer.

KF, its perfectly fine to accept the trinity as the creative, sustaining and destroying 'personalities/aspects/characteristics' of Parmatma, no Sikh is implying that they are multi-faceted, conch blowing, trident waving giants sitting on clouds hovering about Himaaliya somewhere...

I have seen that many Neophytes have a particluar aversion to accepting Parmatma as all encompassing i.e. being destructions as well as creation.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Points have been backed up by other quotes given in the original post. Instead of being jealous, maybe take time to learn and understand. Balbir Singh, I don't know what you are on about. Why should I accept trimoorti of Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh when Gurbani doesnt't? Who should I listen to? Gurbani or man made sampardaa?

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Is Gurdev asking Maayaa the address or whereabouts of Raam?

Maayaa is inside you. You are full of maayaa.

Maaee has many meaning. Depends on where it is used.

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਖਣਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਇਕ ਦੂ ਇਕੁ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥

Gurdev is saying that everyone is claiming to be the highest. That is why there is aunkar there. Logica is still the same. You just have to understand and use your naam simran if you have done some.

You will not become truthful by praying to truth. You will become truthful by following truth.

So now take the next step and start following the truth by implementing it into your life.

What a joke, it was a joke initially when you put this on your blog let alone post it here.

Your Hangta makes only your arths right and all others wrong!

So for the last 305 years all the arths were wrong and now you have had the divine revelation to lead us down your righteous path saving us from damnation.

I suggest when Prof Sahib appears before the takhats to prove the dasam granth wrong in front of the 11 member committee which are readuy and waiting, can you also go along and explain how you came to your conclusion and how the sampardai arths for the last 305 years have mislead us.

Do you not understand that Jap Ji sahib is a question and answer between Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and the Sidhs. Where is the question asked between each pangti and before the pauri? I think you should post those so the arths you have done may fit into the contaxt!

Bhai jealous keo karee jaanaa? You probably had same thing to say when Prof. Sahib Singh did aarths. No one knew aarths before Sahib Singh? When time comes, we will explain arths to 11 membree committee but will they be able to explain their karamkaand and durmat? However, where did Dasam Granth come from in this thread? Is it that whenever you see my post, you start having nightmares of Dasam Granth being removed from Sikh dharam? Lets not bring in Dasam Granth into this thread. Bring live talk if you want to talk Dasam Granth. By the way, there was no written teekaa before the Faridkoat one. Prof. Gurmukh Singh refused to participate to help them make it because he knew they wouldn't make it according to Gurmat. That wasn't 305 years ago; was it?

How are those arths anti-Gurmat? You like aarths which give authority to brahman's brahma, vishnu and mahesh?

Samprdaa believes in trinity of Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh to be running this creation. Gurmat doesn't accept this trinity to be of any power. I will go with Gurmat and not trinity being forced down throats of Sikhs by karamkaandis and vedantis.

Gurbani says these devtas were kings of previous times and nothing more.

Why should I take aarth of Faridkoat teeka then? Aarths of many shabads will be done properly in the future even after me and you are gone. Arths of Gurbani will always be understood better as time goes on and more study is put into Gurbani to understand arths.

KF, its perfectly fine to accept the trinity as the creative, sustaining and destroying 'personalities/aspects/characteristics' of Parmatma, no Sikh is implying that they are multi-faceted, conch blowing, trident waving giants sitting on clouds hovering about Himaaliya somewhere...

It is not fine to accept trimurti of Brahma Vishnu Mahesh because Gurbani didn't accept them to be creator, sustainer and destroyer. I have given quotes to backup what has been said. Please read them again. Sikhs can never accept Vishnu to be the provider because Gurbani says God is provider. Brahma can never be accepted as Creator because God is kartaa Purakh. Please don't ignore core Gurmat philosophy when going arths. Spend more time to understand the shabad better instead of doing arths which don't fit Gurmat.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and The Khalsa Fauj Jee!

You wrote "Maayaa is inside you. You are full of maayaa."

Does this technique work in all? Watch Maayaa in others and find God within.

Quote "Maaee has many meaning. Depends on where it is used."

Funny folk replace many words from the reverend Gurus with the word 'Waheguru'.

Strange, the same folk are convinced that the same word 'maaee' has many meaning.

Quote "Gurdev is saying that everyone is claiming to be the highest. That is why there is aunkar there. Logica is still the same. You just have to understand and use your naam simran if you have done some."

Are children allowed to ask questions in your class, teacher jee?

Quote "You will not become truthful by praying to truth. You will become truthful by following truth.

So now take the next step and start following the truth by implementing it into your life."

Thanks.

Quote "It is not fine to accept trimurti of Brahma Vishnu Mahesh because Gurbani didn't accept them to be creator, sustainer and destroyer."

Did Gurdev ever say? "It is not fine to accept trimurti of Brahma Vishnu Mahesh."

Please provide one reference from Gurdev to back up the above statement.

*****

The Khalsa Fauj Jee,

You wrote "Maaee has many meaning. Depends on where it is used."

Please provide other meanings also.

Balbir Singh

[Kam1825]

Khalsa Fauj Ji to say no one knew arths before prof sahib is absurd. The running sampardas from Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji have preserved the arths as said by Guru Gobind Singh Ji at Damdama Sahib.

The Thing is the pauri in bani shows that all is in accordance to the will of God. God creates Maya as a parkirti and from this creats roop and naam so the trimurti can be created. The three work in creation, sustinance and destruction according to the will of god. they do not work independant. They look for the Lord but are unable to see him.

The trimurti do not work independantly of the Lord and are shown no to be blessed with the vision of the divine. It shows how akal purkh is the being we worship and regard with reverance and that the trimurti are inferior.

What i dont understand is the need to make up your own arths just to take the trimurti out of this as they are not shown in the same light as the Lord. It seems to be the case that the trimurti are taken out due to the sanghsabhacanada just hating the mention of any devte in gurbani arths!

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Gurbani rejects trimurti of Brahma Vishnu Mashesh. Arths are done based on that. That is all. Trimurti doesn't exist so them working under someone makes no sense. If you like the arths, fine, if not, then fine.

[Kam1825]

So what Arths do you do for bani such as Sunniai Eesar Brahma Ind or Gur Isar Gur Gorakh Brahma Gur Parbati Maee from Jap Ji Sahib?

If they do not exists why are mentioned?

Bani is the exonerated truth so why have fictional characters, does that not throw the foundation of which the lines of bani are written cemented on lies and falsehood?

[Matheen]

One arth I've heard of "Ik Lae Di Baan", is that "Di" and "Baan" are two words, so:

Baan: Habit / 'adhath'

Lae: to hit/beat/destroy (as in teht Punjabi)

hence, the who's duty is to destroy/wipe out.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

So what Arths do you do for bani such as Sunniai Eesar Brahma Ind or Gur Isar Gur Gorakh Brahma Gur Parbati Maee from Jap Ji Sahib?

If they do not exists why are mentioned?

Bani is the exonerated truth so why have fictional characters, does that not throw the foundation of which the lines of bani are written cemented on lies and falsehood?

We will also get aarths of that shabad at some point. There are many other shabads like that. Some have been translated already, some aren't and some will be in future. We just have to keep patience.

[laalsingh]

Ang 476

ਆਸਾ ॥ਬਾਪਿ ਦਿਲਾਸਾ ਮੇਰੋ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ॥ਸੇਜ ਸੁਖਾਲੀ ਮੁਖਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਦੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ॥ਤਿਸੁ ਬਾਪ ਕਉ ਕਿਉ ਮਨਹੁ ਵਿਸਾਰੀ ॥ਆਗੈ ਗਇਆ ਨ ਬਾਜੀ ॥੧॥ਮੁਈ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਈ ਹਉ ਖਰਾ ਸੁਖਾਲਾ ॥ਪਹਿਰਉ ਨਹੀ ਦਗਲੀ ਲਗੈ ਨ ਪਾਲਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ਬਲਿ ਤਿਸੁ ਬਾਪੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਹਉ ਜਾਇਆ ॥ਪੰਚਾ ਤੇ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੰਗੁ ਚੁਕਾਇਆ ॥ਪੰਚ ਮਾਰਿ ਪਾਵਾ ਤਲਿ ਦੀਨੇ ॥ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਭੀਨੇ ॥੨॥ਪਿਤਾ ਹਮਾਰੋ ਵਡ ਗੋਸਾਈ ॥ਤਿਸੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਪਹਿ ਹਉ ਕਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਈ ॥ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੇ ਤ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥ਜਗਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਮੇਰੈ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ਹਉ ਪੂਤੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੂੰ ਬਾਪੁ ਮੇਰਾ ॥ਏਕੈ ਠਾਹਰ ਦੁਹਾ ਬਸੇਰਾ ॥ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਜਨਿ ਏਕੋ ਬੂਝਿਆ ॥ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਮੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੂਝਿਆ ॥੪॥੩॥

In this Shabad, Lord is called father and Mayee is called mother. Love is shown towards father but Bhagat ji got relieved on death of Mayee or Maya. So is father addressed here is Sargun roop of Nirankar? Let's continue with following shabad.

Ang 1066

ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥ਆਪੇ ਖੇਲ ਕਰੇ ਸਭਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਸੁਣਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਇਦਾ ॥੧॥ਮਾਇਆ ਮਾਈ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਪਰਸੂਤਿ ਜਮਾਇਆ ॥ਚਾਰੇ ਬੇਦ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਨੋ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਆ ॥ਵਰ੍ਹੇ ਮਾਹ ਵਾਰ ਥਿਤੀ ਕਰਿ ਇਸੁ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਇਦਾ ॥੨॥ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤੇ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਾਰ ॥ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰ ॥ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਵਰਤੀ ਜਗ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਇਸੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਾਇਦਾ ॥੩॥

Again first two tuks. Nirankar created Sargun roop. Then with His command Maya and attachments came into being. Then in fourth tuk, Mayee gave birth to three gunas (representing union of Sargun roop with Mayee to result in this Jagat).

Note to Khalsa Fauj: Tuk is highlighted to show that Brahama is one of ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਚੇਲਾ.

[laalsingh]

Here are more refrences of this union.

ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ ॥ Ang 21 by Guru Nanak.

ਤਬ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਿਤੁ ਠਾਇ ॥ Ang 291 by Guru Arjun Dev.

ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ ॥ Ang 920 by Third Master

ਪੰਨਾ 1037, ਸਤਰ 3

ਹੁਕਮੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਹੁਕਮੇ ਖੇਲ ਖੇਲਾਇਦਾ ॥੧੧॥ Ang 1037 by Guru Nanak Dev.

So is Shakti in this union is same Mayee, which is called Mai Parvati by Saivites, Mai Laxmi by Vaishnavs and simply Mayee or Maya by Gurus and Bhgats? Word 'Mai Laxmi' literally means wealth.

And does Siv in this union represent Sargun aspect of Nirankar?

Attachment is the picture I saw at one of the Savites home (similar pic came on google search).

I am not advocating worshiping these Devis or Devtas or other lesser gods or sargun aspects of Brahamn, but we must know what is background of these words and what really these words represent.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Laalsingh

Three guons of maayaa are rajo, tamo and sato

Not Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh

[laalsingh]

Gurbani condemns Shatkas, who worship Shakti (representation of Maya). On same Ang where Shiv Shakti appears, Guru Nanak Saheb condemns practice of worshipping Shakti by Shaktas.

ਸਬਦਿ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਸਾਕਤਾ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਆਵਨੁ ਜਾਨੁ ॥ ਸਾਧੂ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਜੇ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਣੀ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥੧॥

Then again on Ang 986

ਨਿਤ ਚਰਨ ਸੇਵਹੁ ਸਾਧ ਕੇ ਤਜਿ ਲੋਭ ਮੋਹ ਬਿਕਾਰ ॥ਸਭ ਤਜਹੁ ਦੂਜੀ ਆਸੜੀ ਰਖੁ ਆਸ ਇਕ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥੨॥ਇਕਿ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੂਲੇ ਸਾਕਤਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਅੰਧ ਅੰਧਾਰ ॥

[laalsingh]

Laalsingh

Three guons of maayaa are rajo, tamo and sato

Not Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh

When did I say three gunas are Brahama, Vishnu and Shiva. Tuk I am talking about is ਚਾਰੇ ਬੇਦ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਨੋ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਆ ॥

[laalsingh]

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ਮਾਥੈ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁਟੀ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਕਰੂਰਿ ॥ਬੋਲੈ ਕਉੜਾ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਕੀ ਫੂੜਿ ॥ਸਦਾ ਭੂਖੀ ਪਿਰੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥੧॥ਐਸੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਇਕ ਰਾਮਿ ਉਪਾਈ ॥ਉਨਿ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਖਾਇਆ ਹਮ ਗੁਰਿ ਰਾਖੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ਪਾਇ ਠਗਉਲੀ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਜੋਹਿਆ ॥ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਮੋਹਿਆ ॥ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਗੇ ਸੇ ਸੋਹਿਆ ॥੨॥ਵਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਕੇ ਪੁਨਹਚਰਨਾ ॥ਤਟ ਤੀਰਥ ਭਵੇ ਸਭ ਧਰਨਾ ॥ਸੇ ਉਬਰੇ ਜਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਨਾ ॥੩॥ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿ ਸਭੋ ਜਗੁ ਬਾਧਾ ॥ਹਉਮੈ ਪਚੈ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਮੂਰਾਖਾ ॥ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਾਹ ਪਕਰਿ ਹਮ ਰਾਖਾ ॥੪॥੨॥੯੬॥

Isn't this woman described in red is Mayee or Maya?

So who are these chelas (ਮੋਹਿਆ ones) in blue letters?

As Shaheediyan wrote,"KF, its perfectly fine to accept the trinity as the creative, sustaining and destroying 'personalities/aspects/characteristics' of Parmatma, no Sikh is implying that they are multi-faceted, conch blowing, trident waving giants sitting on clouds hovering about Himaaliya somewhere..."

[The Khalsa Fauj]

When did I say three gunas are Brahama, Vishnu and Shiva. Tuk I am talking about is ਚਾਰੇ ਬੇਦ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਨੋ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਆ ॥

Oh ok. I appreciate you clarifying.

You are right about Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh falling into trap of maayaa.

Side Note: I never said Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh didn't exist.

Edited August 18, 2009 by The Khalsa Fauj

[laalsingh]

Bhagat Kabir ji on Ang 480

ਆਸਾ ਇਕਤੁਕੇ ੪ ॥ਸਰਪਨੀ ਤੇ ਊਪਰਿ ਨਹੀ ਬਲੀਆ ॥ਜਿਨਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਛਲੀਆ ॥੧॥ਮਾਰੁ ਮਾਰੁ ਸ੍ਰਪਨੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜਲਿ ਪੈਠੀ ॥ਜਿਨਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਡਸੀਅਲੇ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਡੀਠੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ਸ੍ਰਪਨੀ ਸ੍ਰਪਨੀ ਕਿਆ ਕਹਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥ਜਿਨਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਪਛਾਨਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਸ੍ਰਪਨੀ ਖਾਈ ॥੨॥ਸ੍ਰਪਨੀ ਤੇ ਆਨ ਛੂਛ ਨਹੀ ਅਵਰਾ ॥ਸ੍ਰਪਨੀ ਜੀਤੀ ਕਹਾ ਕਰੈ ਜਮਰਾ ॥੩॥ ਇਹ ਸ੍ਰਪਨੀ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੋਈ ॥ਬਲੁ ਅਬਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਇਸ ਤੇ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥ਇਹ ਬਸਤੀ ਤਾ ਬਸਤ ਸਰੀਰਾ ॥ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਤਰੇ ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥੫॥੬॥੧੯॥

Who is this ਸਰਪਨੀ (in red)?

Who are the chelas (not offsprings of Maya but ਛਲੀਏ or ਮੋਹੇ ones)?

Who created this ਸਰਪਨੀ (in green)?

[laalsingh]

Bhagat Kabir on Ang 872

ਗੋਂਡ ॥ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਿ ਸੋਭਾ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਰੇ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ ਆਵਤ ਪਹੀਆ ਖੂਧੇ ਜਾਹਿ ॥ ਵਾ ਕੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਨਹੀ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਸੋਹਾਗਨਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਦੋਖੁ ॥੧॥ ਧਨੁ ਸੋਹਾਗਨਿ ਮਹਾ ਪਵੀਤ ॥ ਤਪੇ ਤਪੀਸਰ ਡੋਲੈ ਚੀਤ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ਸੋਹਾਗਨਿ ਕਿਰਪਨ ਕੀ ਪੂਤੀ ॥ ਸੇਵਕ ਤਜਿ ਜਗਤ ਸਿਉ ਸੂਤੀ ॥ ਸਾਧੂ ਕੈ ਠਾਢੀ ਦਰਬਾਰਿ ॥ ਸਰਨਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਿ ॥੨॥

ਸੋਹਾਗਨਿ ਹੈ ਅਤਿ ਸੁੰਦਰੀ ॥ ਪਗ ਨੇਵਰ ਛਨਕ ਛਨਹਰੀ ॥ ਜਉ ਲਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਤਊ ਲਗੁ ਸੰਗੇ ॥ ਨਾਹਿ ਤ ਚਲੀ ਬੇਗਿ ਉਠਿ ਨੰਗੇ ॥੩॥ ਸੋਹਾਗਨਿ ਭਵਨ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਲੀਆ ॥ ਦਸ ਅਠ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਤੀਰਥ ਰਸ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬੇਧੇ ॥ ਬਡੇ ਭੂਪਤਿ ਰਾਜੇ ਹੈ ਛੇਧੇ ॥੪॥

Who is this Sohagan, who has even Brahama, Vishnu and Mahesh as chelas? Three gunas are offsprings or qualities of Maya, not chelas.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

What does a teacher create? A student.

Who did maayaa create? Trai Guon.

Quotes have been given in original article.

Laalsingh ji, Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh were trapped into three gunas of maayaa. That is why they were also chelas of maaya. They weren't the only chelas of maaya. There were others and are others. There was nothing special about Brahma, Vishnu or Mahesh. That is why Gurbani says there were many like them and there are many like them.

Sarpanee is maayaa.

Let me post some quotes:

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਰੋਗੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਈ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਏ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਚੇਤਹਿ ਬਪੁੜੇ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ॥ ੨॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੭੩੫}

ਸਦਾ ਸਹਜੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਸਚੇ ਸਿਉ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਭੁਲੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਇਆ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੮੫੨}

ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਨ ਰੰਗੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਿੰਨ ॥ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ॥ ੧॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੨੮੩}

Chela means follower. The three qualities of maayaa follow the principles of maayaa.

Those who are trapped in trai guon are trapped in maayaa. Do you agree?

Laal Singh Ji, please give a good explanation of Pauri 30 then because based on quotes from Gurbani posted by you and me, it is clear that Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh aren't the Creator, Provider and Evaluator.

How would you translate three chelas in Japuji quote then?

Also, maayaa only lured Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh?

All the leaders of our kaum who sell religion for self aren't lured by maayaa?

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Laal Singh Ji,

Do you agree with Gurbani that God is the Only Creator, the Only Provider and the Only Evaluator?

Gurbani quotes are below once again:

ਸਭਨਾ ਜੀਆ ਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸੋ ਮੈ ਵਿਸਰਿ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥ ੫॥ (੨-੧੦, ਜਪੁ, ਮ: ੧)

One God is the only provider of all beings; May I never forget Him. 5.

ਦਦਾ ਦਾਤਾ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਕਉ ਦੇਵਨਹਾਰ ॥ (੨੫੭-੧੦, ਗਉੜੀ, ਮ: ੫)

Dadda: God is the only provider; God gives to all.

ਹਰਿ ਇਕੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਇਕੁ ਇਕੋ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ਹਰਿ ॥ (੮੩-੬, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, ਮ: ੩)

All-pervading God is the Sole Creator; there is only one Court of the One All-pervading Lord.

ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੇ ਕੀ ਸਾਚੀ ਕਾਰ ॥ (੭-੫, ਜਪੁ, ਮ: ੧)

Having created the creation, the Creator God watches over it. Nanak, True is the creation of the True Lord.

ਤੂੰ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ਮੈਡਾ ਸਾਂਈ ॥ (੧੧-੧੪, ਆਸਾ, ਮ: ੪)

Oh my Master Lord! You are the True Creator.

ਮਾਇਆ ਮਾਈ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਪਰਸੂਤਿ ਜਮਾਇਆ ॥ (੧੦੬੬-੨, ਮਾਰੂ, ਮ: ੩)

Maayaa, the mother, gave birth to the three gunas, the three qualities.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਜਨਮੇ ਗਵਨੁ ਮਿਟਾਇਆ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੯੪੦}

ਕਬੀਰ ਸਿਖ ਸਾਖਾ ਬਹੁਤੇ ਕੀਏ ਕੇਸੋ ਕੀਓ ਨ ਮੀਤੁ ॥ ਚਾਲੇ ਥੇ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲਨ ਕਉ ਬੀਚੈ ਅਟਕਿਓ ਚੀਤੁ ॥੯੬॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੬੯}

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਾਇ ਮੂੰਡਉ ਤਿਹ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਭਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਆਪ ਡੁਬੇ ਚਹੁ ਬੇਦ ਮਹਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਦੀਏ ਬਹਾਇ ॥੧੦੪॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੬੯}

ਪੜਿਐ ਨਾਹੀ ਭੇਦੁ ਬੁਝਿਐ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੮}

Just like we can have janam in Guru's house and be chelas of Guru.

Maayaa gives way to three qualities which are also her chelas.

We can be chelas of 5 vikaars or 5 vikaars can be our chelas.

Creation is from same elements.

Edited August 18, 2009 by The Khalsa Fauj

[singh2]

You are right about Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh falling into trap of maayaa.

Side Note: I never said Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh didn't exist.

Fauji

See below what you said. Why lie now

Gurbani rejects trimurti of Brahma Vishnu Mashesh. Arths are done based on that. That is all. Trimurti doesn't exist