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Can Women Be In The Panj Pyare


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On 2/6/2010 at 1:15 AM, Guest said:

Here is my view probably little controversial. I think from panthic maryada point of view- men are only allowed in panj pyares just to keep the maryada of amrit sanchar held in 1699.

 

But from adhyatam aspect, if bibi has reached bhramgyan- i don't see why she cannot give amrit to others in form of panj pyares. There is no black and white rule there. It all comes down to avastha of an individual. Breaking maryada is discouraged because to keep joe blow sikhs like us in intact and discipline. But if an female bhramgyani or soceity of sant mandali sees this issue from bhramgyan perspective not from maryada perspective, this is non issue. So there is no clear cut answer to this. To make it less confusing, lets just put this in context- there are certain maryada or issues in the panth does not apply to the individuals who have reached bhramgyan.

 

At the end, once we start debating which maryada is correct on this issue- taksal, rara sahib, sgpc. We are really beating an dead horse here..shouldn't be concentrating on this issue too much..at the end, bhramgyan, bhramgyanis are above gender because they are merged in with nirgun paratama.

Of course women should be allowed to. Makes have made these rules, not the Gurus. Mai Bhago was Gurujis bodyguard and one of his best and bravest fighters. How can anyone think that women can’t do anything after that. Insane. 

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15 hours ago, kidsama said:

No. Because, when 5 Singhs of utmost rehat and character come together they represent the Guru in his physical form. And all the gurus were male. 

What? Men and women are Equal. You may have been a woman in your previous janam just as I may have been a male. The gender doesn’t matter, it’s the soul. God is One, Humans are Equal. We are One. There is no difference between us.
 

Is that so difficult to understand. The Gurus/ God made Gurbani So Simple, and sexist men seek to complicate and twist it. 

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Just now, Sikhilove said:

What? Men and women are Equal. You may have been a woman in your previous janam just as I may have been a male. The gender doesn’t matter, it’s the soul. God is One, Humans are Equal. We are One. There is no difference between us.
 

Is that so difficult to understand. The Gurus/ God made Gurbani So Simple, and sexist men seek to complicate and twist it. 

God can and may readily make you a woman in your next janam. What then? You need to prepare for the after, not be attached to what you are Now. Your janam now is Temporary. So leave your male pride behind, it’s simply Ego.

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11 hours ago, Sikhilove said:

What? Men and women are Equal. You may have been a woman in your previous janam just as I may have been a male. The gender doesn’t matter, it’s the soul. God is One, Humans are Equal. We are One. There is no difference between us.
 

Is that so difficult to understand. The Gurus/ God made Gurbani So Simple, and sexist men seek to complicate and twist it. 

lol this is Exactly what I meant on that previous post, that your type of thought usually leads to delusion or weakness. Yes, men and women are equal spiritually, but we have different roles. Not very hard to understand. 

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On 10/18/2020 at 10:12 PM, kidsama said:

lol this is Exactly what I meant on that previous post, that your type of thought usually leads to delusion or weakness. Yes, men and women are equal spiritually, but we have different roles. Not very hard to understand. 

Are you serious? 

If Guru Gobind Singh Ji saw Mai Bhago, his bodyguard, as one of his fiercest and most loving warriors and servaks, then why would he want the current panj pyare to be men.
 

The fact that you find it so difficult to swallow is that no woman had offered to give their heads that day. If they had, the panj pyare back then would have consisted of Women. The roles you speak of are BS sexism. Open your mind and leave your brown backwards Punjabi thinking behind. We deal in Truth, not Manmade Culture.

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On 10/18/2020 at 10:12 PM, kidsama said:

lol this is Exactly what I meant on that previous post, that your type of thought usually leads to delusion or weakness. Yes, men and women are equal spiritually, but we have different roles. Not very hard to understand. 

As I said... He will Happily make you a woman in your next janam, what then?

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Bibi ji. You are taking my message the wrong way, although I don't usually reply to get into arguments with someone who can't understand what I am trying to say, but your intentions seem to be good and for anyone else who maybe be reading and wondering about this topic I will explain simply. 

It's not about equality, or women are less than men etc. It's simply that the light of the Guru doesn't come forth when you have 4 singhs and one woman or whatever combination. Only when 5 amritdhari singhs of high rehat come together to administer the amirt does the light of the Guru come forth through them.  
 

Now as for your personal question;

4 minutes ago, Sikhilove said:

As I said... He will Happily make you a woman in your next janam, what then?

I am not taking another janam. 

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21 hours ago, kidsama said:

Bibi ji. You are taking my message the wrong way, although I don't usually reply to get into arguments with someone who can't understand what I am trying to say, but your intentions seem to be good and for anyone else who maybe be reading and wondering about this topic I will explain simply. 

It's not about equality, or women are less than men etc. It's simply that the light of the Guru doesn't come forth when you have 4 singhs and one woman or whatever combination. Only when 5 amritdhari singhs of high rehat come together to administer the amirt does the light of the Guru come forth through them.  
 

Now as for your personal question;

I am not taking another janam. 

Kidsama Bhaji. im not trying to argue with you. I simply spoke the pure Truth. Whether man or woman, it doesn’t matter. Humans are Equal. The Panj Pyare are Equal. Hence their gender doesn’t matter. 
 

As for your reply of not taking another janam. It’s easy to fall, and we cannot know the future, only He does. We can only pray that we stay on the straight and narrow path and never fall. God bless you. 

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On 10/19/2020 at 11:41 PM, kidsama said:

It's not about equality, or women are less than men etc.

It's simply that the light of the Guru doesn't come forth when you have 4 singhs and one woman or whatever combination. Only when 5 amritdhari singhs of high rehat come together to administer the amirt does the light of the Guru come forth through them.  
 

Not wanting to enter into any controversy whether women can be in the Panj Pyare or not,  all this discussion will go on for long time, as long as people are not fair or are sadly being influenced by those who have not realized that Divinity within. This is how the society moves, means in constant conflicts and confusion.

But from there to say, that if there is any combination of genders between them, thus not all men, then the light of the Guru will not come forth?

This is not correct at all, because, whether singhs or singhnis, it is diferentiated at the physical level, which is not real, in the sense that, our true essence is spiritual or soul being, and this is what has to be deeply pure in order for the light of Guru to shine forth, and not because of the body of a particular gender. 

The body which is inert and consciousless by itself, moves and acts as per the purity of the mind and the soul. The light of the Guru is already present in each jeev atma, but it is only felt and seen if purity is there.

For example, the eyes through which we see others is not the same if a sant or a paapee see some other´s spouse.

The seeing of a paapee will have a lustful look, while the seeing of a sant, will have a look of mercy asking Him to shower all with mercy.

So you see, the purity or high consciouss level is not of the body or genders, but, of the mind and soul.

Also when you do abhyaas or bhakti, it is the soul which arises within ito higher spiritual realms, not the body which stays still and unmoved.

So brother, let us not complicate things more than what they already are, let us give a deep careful thought to all that we say or express in rush, without trying to see the situation as a whole in a different and a logical perspective.

The purity lies in the mind and soul, not the physical.  The physical needs skills or training for physical activities just as sports or commiting actions to be carried out, but where spirituality is concerned to transmit the light of the Guru, only purity of mind and soul is needed, which is above any genders.

 

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