Euopean Travellers To Punjab During Sikh Rule

[singh2]

V. Jacquemont was a French who toured Punjab in 1831.He was a scientist who wrote his observations in the form of letters that were tarnslated in English.

During his travel he met Ranjit singh in person on two days.The following is from his writings

"After a mile or so around the city( Lahore) over bad roads and through gardens, fields and ruins, we arrived at a camp of regular infantry ; this was Ranjit's bodyguard. We alighted near some beds of poppies, larkspurs and wall flowers which surrounded a cottage made of straw in the Chinese style with a little tent of red and white stripes in front of it; this was rajah's headquarters. Group of sikh officers and servants were seated in this rustic garden; we were conducted to the seat of the King which was no more magnificent than that of the rest. Ranjit was seated on a cushion in the sun on one of the garden paths; a servant standing behind him chased away the flies with the end of his waistband. on His right and left were a dozen of sardars squatting on a persian carpet near rajah. I saluted him when some paces away raising my hand to my forehead and he replied in the same manner but with rising.I advanced to the carpet and prsenting a nazzar of 21 ducats was commencing a complimentary speech, when he bade me sit down quite near him; and, without waiting for the end of my discourse, asked me how i was and if i was not tired by the journey, and assured me how pleased he was to see me. He spoke in Hindustani which understood very well, and he quite understood all the frowning pharases which i had prepared for the commencement of the interview e.g." i had often heard of his renown, his courage, and his wisdom. i had often seen Bonaparte and i for some time i had desired to see Bonaparte of the east( here ranjit bowed most affably) . All my desires were fulfilled in finding myself in his presence."

Excerpts from :The Punjab a 100 years ago

[singh2]

V. Jacquemon On Nihung singhs in Amritsar whom he calls akalis

" the akalis, or immortals, are properly speaking sikh faqirs. Their rule compels them to be dressed in blue and always to carry arms. The sacred pol at Amritsar is their headquarters, but they often spread themselves over the punjab in large and formidable parties. Ranjit wisely turns their ferocity to his own advantage. He enlists them in his armies and employs them preferably against Mussalman enemies. He has at the moment 4,000-5,000 of them in the army. which he maintains at Attock, ready to march against another fanatic Syed. I have only seen two of them in the streets of Amritsar; it was evening and the matches of their muskets hung ready lighted. I had never seen more sinister looking figures."

Excerpts from :The Punjab a 100 years ago

[shaheediyan]

Interesting to read his comment 'Bonaparte of the East'.

Napoleon was an amazing man and legendary Leader and Commander. If he had passed Egypt and made it to India, one can only wonder what the most likey friendship of these 2 great generals would have accomplished...

"I had never seen more sinister looking figures."

LOL, somethings/views never change!

Edited September 6, 2009 by shaheediyan

[Matheen]

Napoleon wasn't all he's made out to be by the French....but coming from a Frenchman, it is good praise.

[singh2]

Interesting to read his comment 'Bonaparte of the East'.

Napoleon was an amazing man and legendary Leader and Commander. If he had passed Egypt and made it to India, one can only wonder what the most likey friendship of these 2 great generals would have accomplished...

"I had never seen more sinister looking figures."

LOL, somethings/views never change!

Nihungs were most feared by Europeans. He writes that they did not allow him to visit Golden temple. at one place he writes that Nihungs used to travel night time.

[singh2]

Napoleon wasn't all he's made out to be by the French....but coming from a Frenchman, it is good praise.

Ranjit singh was more wise than him. He put very intelligent questions to the visitor that i will write in another post.

[shaheediyan]

Matheen, have you studied Napoleons life - as per non-French historians...

[Matheen]

Matheen, have you studied Napoleons life - as per non-French historians...

Yes, and the views of his own soldiers as well.

[shaheediyan]

Not sure what you have read, but he is renowned to be one of the greatest military stategists and commanders in history, his achievments in the areas of religious freedom (freeing Jews from the Vatican Ghettos), Art, Science, Law, Literature, Infrastructure, Politics (creating a secular Europe, destroying feudalism, creating Educations systems, Hospitals... he is also reputed to have started the deciphering of Egyption via the discovery of the Rosseta stone (though I would throw that one in).

Of course the man was not divine nor perfect, neither was Shere Punjab, but having studied the lives of both great men, I can certainly confidently say there are many similarities...

One thing I love about Napoleon is that he was a true frontline Commander.

[dalsingh101]

I've been reading Jacquemont's account recently and thought I'd add to the excerpts by Inder Singh.

Allard's battalion's uniform and battle instructions.

On March 2nd I left Ludhiana and crossed the Sutlej. I rode on an elephant and was escorted by some Sikh troopers from Ludhiana. My elephant was ferried across on a very small boat and my escort crossed in similar ones. On reaching the right bank I was received by military honours by a troop of cavalry, clothed and armed in a uniform half French half Sikh. What struck me most about them was that the words of command were given in French. These men belonged to Allard's own corps.

Observation on the general physical appearance of Sikhs made on journey between Phagwara and Jullunder

The people are same in appearance as those on the south of the Sutlej, and their manners and customs are similar.

It is easy to distinguish a Sikh from a Muhammadan or Hindu, although one may find that they are descended from a common ancestern not many generations back.

They are not a people but a sect and quite a new sect. Its adherents, however, devoted for two three generations to one profession, that of arms, and united in one brotherhood, have acquired characteristics that they now transmit to their children. The enormous baggy breeches, tight at the knee and fastened around the waist with a cord are peculiar to the Sikhs.

Caste

They [sikhs] retain the customs of caste which they came from and caste prejudices are as strong among them as among the Hindus, less so than in the rest of India but certainly more so than in the Himalayas. Their priests are always of high caste Hindu descent and they have such a contempt for lower castes that Murray does not allow a Chamar or a Mehtar (sweeper) to enter his house. Those of these castes who have a request to make, make it at the door; he then goes out to the veranda to interview them.

Fatteh Singh's Muslim wife.

Kapurthala is the residence of a Sikh Sardar, Fatteh Singh, who is now erecting outside the city a very large and fine mansion. Seeing a mosque near it, I asked who had built it; Sha Uddin [one of the important Fakir brothers], told me it was the wife of the sardar. This princess is a Muhammadan lady. They have two children, as orthodox Sikh as possible, I was informed. The city is small, but appears prosperous.

The population of Amritsar

The population is a mixture of different people and religions. Hindus and Muhammadans are less common than Sikhs, in whose hands is practically all of the business, to the prosperity of which Amritsar owes it flourishing appearance. There are also a large number of Kashmiris and Afghans; the former weave or spin, the latter speculate. There is not a single mosque, and the public practice of the Muhammadan religion is forbidden. The Hindu temples are small and scarce. The religion of Nanak admits no rivals at Amritsar.

Jacquemont prevented from visting Harmandir Sahib

The guardian of the sacred tank at Amritsar is only a rich Sardar and the post is not hereditary in the family. According to my conductor, the present guardian S. Jiwan Singh [anyone have more info on him?] refused to allow me within the enclosure where this celebrated pool has been excavated, for the possession of which so many battles were fought in the Punjab in the last century. Many times the Mussalmans filled it with the ruins of the surrounding houses and soiled it with the victims of their intolerance. But, when victory reopened to the Sikhs the gates of Amritsar, they carried out bloody reprisals and washed the steps of the pool with the blood of Mussalmans.

Will post more in time. This is by far the most detailed account of the Sikh kingdom I have ever come across.

Edited February 18, 2010 by dalsingh101

[Mithar]

After a month of destroyed/hijacked threads I must say it is refreshing to see such a great topic. I just hope this thread does not get hijacked by you know who.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Mithar

[dalsingh101]

Slavery amongst women of the ruling elite

These ladies [talking of Ventura's wives] are guarded and attended by female slaves, bought for Rs. 60-80 from the dealers who bring them from the hills, who are kindly treated by their mistresses. Slavery is very common among the women of Punjab; nearly all the concubines and servants are slaves. It is unknown among men. Sometimes these officers dine with their wives in the zenana, waiting on by the slave girls. But they tell me that these attempts at European manners are not very successful.

Jacquemont's account purports to record a lengthy interview he had during an 'audience' with M. Ranjit Singh translated via Ventura and Fakir Shahuddin. First the maharajah is described thus:

A description of Maharajah Ranjit Singh's appearance

The rajah bore no mark of his rank except his place of the centre of the circle and the cushion on which he was seated. He is a thin little man with an attractive face, though he has lost one eye from smallpox, which has otherwise disfigured him little. His right eye, which remains, is very large, his nose is fine and slightly turned up, his mouth firm, his teeth excellent. He wears a slight moustache which he twists incessantly with his fingers and a long thin beard which falls to his chest. His expression shows nobility of thought, shrewdness and penetration and these indications are correct. He wore a little turban of white muslin rather carelessly tied, a kind of long white tunic with a little cape falling over his shoulders, like a French riding cloak, tight trousers with bare feet.

His clothes were of white Kashmir tissue with a little gold trimming on the collar, cuffs and sleeves; of a very comfortable and old fashioned cut it seemed to me. For ornaments he wore large round gold earrings with pearls in them, a collar of pearls and ruby bracelets almost hidden under his sleeves. At his side hung a sword, the gold hilt of which was encrusted with diamonds and emeralds.

M. Ranjit Singh questions Jacquemont about the British reaction to a possible Russian invasion - very telling

M. Ranjit Singh (RS): "I have heard a good deal about the Russians lately. They have been making conquests in Persia. What do the British in India say about them?

Jacquemont (J): They do not worry much.

RS: But, if a Russian army advanced to attack them, what would they do?

J: I was very much tempted to reply truthfully, that is to say "They would make many excuses to your Majesty for the necessity to which they would be driven to invading your Majesty's territory and carrying their frontier from the Sutlej to the Indus." But I made the reply more agreeable to everybody- "It would not matter to them; would not the Russians, in order to invade India, have to traverse your Majesty's dominions? Would your Majesty quietly allow yourself to be dethroned? With an army well disciplined and commanded by able French generals like these gentlemen (Allard & Ventura) who have already fought against the Russians* under Bonaparte and know their tactics, your Majesty would not leave to the British the trouble of driving them away. Without European discipline which your majesty has introduced into your army, it could not offer any effective resistance to the Russians, but if they came tomorrow, your Majesty would, I am sure, give them a warm reception." Whereupon, not in reply to my words, but to an evil thought which had passed through his mind, he affirmed the sincerity of his friendship for the British. "The British and I, said he, have one heart between us." As I was nervous that my words might be repeated in India, I spoke warmly of the immense power and good faith of the British. I spoke as if I were myself British.....

*Jacquemont was wrong, Ventura had previously fought the Russians but Allard had not.

Edited February 19, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

The population of Amritsar

Quote

The population is a mixture of different people and religions. Hindus and Muhammadans are less common than Sikhs, in whose hands is practically all of the business, to the prosperity of which Amritsar owes it flourishing appearance. There are also a large number of Kashmiris and Afghans; the former weave or spin, the latter speculate. There is not a single mosque, and the public practice of the Muhammadan religion is forbidden. The Hindu temples are small and scarce. The religion of Nanak admits no rivals at Amritsar.

Interesting quote.It means at the time of maharaja ranjit singh Publicaly practicing islam was banned in Amritsar

[Dharma]

There is not a single mosque, and the public practice of the Muhammadan religion is forbidden.

Excellent policy.

[Matheen]

Interesting quote.It means at the time of maharaja ranjit singh Publicaly practicing islam was banned in Amritsar

Many of his advisors were Muslim, so I'm not sure how accurate this is.

'Dharma' - why is it an excellent policy? It flies against Gurbani.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Matheen

[Dharma]

Many of his advisors were Muslim, so I'm not sure how accurate this is.

'Dharma' - why is it an excellent policy? It flies against Gurbani.

Because, IMO, Islam is cruel and is the fatal enemy of all other cultures.

[shaheediyan]

It is definately your opinion Dharma, as it most certainly is not that of Gurmat.

[kdsingh80]

Many of his advisors were Muslim, so I'm not sure how accurate this is.

'Dharma' - why is it an excellent policy? It flies against Gurbani.

I don't think it is inaccurate.Muslims too don't allow non muslim in mecca so may be they don't have problem with it as Amritsar was holy city of sikhs

[dalsingh101]

Interesting quote.It means at the time of maharaja ranjit singh Publicaly practicing islam was banned in Amritsar

I found this more interesting myself:

Sha Uddin [one of the important Fakir brothers], told me it was the wife of the sardar. This princess is a Muhammadan lady. They have two children, as orthodox Sikh as possible, I was informed.

This type of stuff has to make a comeback.

[Mithar]

I found this more interesting myself:

This type of stuff has to make a comeback.

It seems like Sharia in reverse.

[Weedol]

Napoleon was a great man. He respected Islam and exhibited no sexual deviance or public drunkenness.

[dalsingh101]

It seems like Sharia in reverse.

They 'yinged' we 'yanged'.

mod note: please keep the language appropriate. that kind of sick talk is not welcome here.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Xylitol
language

[shaheediyan]

dalsingh, seriously, are you a complete idiot?

You talk about amritvela and try and comment on spiritual matters yet you don't have the commonsense and courtesy to understand that this is a 'SIKH' forum, where people of all backgrounds come to find out about this pristine truth. Not to mention girls of all ages also frequent this forum.

Do you speak like that in front of your mum and sister too?

Mods, please start doing your job and removing vile posts like the one above.

Re marriage to Muslian, there are also cases where Sikhs converted for their love of a Muslim women, this is the core reason Maharaj banned relations with Muslim women. Like it or not, a Muslim women is less likely to give up her faith than any other (one the whole, of course their are exceptions), and more than likely, if she has relations with a man, the man will convert to keep her. I know of gorai, kalai and a few Sikh guys who have converted out of love for a Muslim women.

Instead of banging on about Anti-Muslim sentiment in other threads, better if you actually try and understand the underlying issues/reasons - this is one rehit which I know for a fact is still 100% applicable today.

The singular/rare example you give above of some Sikh royal is hardly a prompt to say we should start marrying Muslim women, when relations with a Musli is one of the 4 Bujjar Kurehits (before the modernised version of adultry).

Don't forget even M Ranjit Singh was punished/brought to account when his relationship with a Musli became public knowledge.

[shaheediyan]

Weedol, Napoleon was a great man because he propogated religious tolerance and freedom of worship (and freedom per se) for all men. The most excellent example being his destruction of the Jewish Ghettos in the Vatican, twice, from what I remember.

He was also a brave warrior, a front line General and great strategist, alongside as you say, having a great sense/respect for civil/moral behaviour. I always wondered what great things may have been achieved if NB had ever gotten past Egypt and reached India and met M Ranjit Singh....

[dalsingh101]

There, I asterixed the offending words my sensitive princess. I don't really think you've actually hung around many real pindu Panjabis btw. But forget that.

Re marriage to Muslian, there are also cases where Sikhs converted for their love of a Muslim women, this is the core reason Maharaj banned relations with Muslim women. Like it or not, a Muslim women is less likely to give up her faith than any other (one the whole, of course their are exceptions), and more than likely, if she has relations with a man, the man will convert to keep her. I know of gorai, kalai and a few Sikh guys who have converted out of love for a Muslim women.

It's only because they have strong social pressures on them to keep in the faith (one of which is the threat of violence). If they were that religious in the first place, they are unlikely to start a relationship with a nonMuslim.

Instead of banging on about Anti-Muslim sentiment in other threads, better if you actually try and understand the underlying issues/reasons - this is one rehit which I know for a fact is still 100% applicable today.

The singular/rare example you give above of some Sikh royal is hardly a prompt to say we should start marrying Muslim women, when relations with a Musli is one of the 4 Bujjar Kurehits (before the modernised version of adultry).

Are you a fool Shaheediyan, seriously? I posted a good number of extracts, including some that go against your made up theories of lovey dovey relationships between Muslims and Sikhs, and that is what you hone in on? Why are you getting so defensive? Anyway, no offence but I'm well read enough to know your reconstruction of Sikh history is complete b***ocks. Seriously, you just adjust facts to your own modern preconceptions. That is SO intellectually weak man.

My point was that mixed marriages will have to become more accepted in light of the disparity between genders. It was your knee jerk 'sullah saviour' reaction that read incorrectly into it......that's just weird Shaheediyan. When I made my comments I never had anyone one particular community in mind.

Don't forget even M Ranjit Singh was punished/brought to account when his relationship with a Musli became public knowledge.

I doubt it was the marrying of the Musli that was the issue. It was probably the flagrant way he went about his romance that upset Nihangs. Read up about it!

Edited February 20, 2010 by dalsingh101