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Cut hair Seevadaars?


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In April we had a family Akhand Path to celebrate my fathers 50th :D , and as with most large Gurdwarea now-a-days, there were several Akand Paths in progress, hence many sevadaars....

I was helping serve langar, when one of the Gurdwara guys called me to aside.. he took me to where they were making the Kara Parshaad, and asked me to help make the Parshaad - That was the cool part, but, then he said (in Punjabi)

"This guy will tell you what to do. Hes not allowed to make it because hes a Mouna"...

I was a little confused, however I just got on with it. But the fact he said that upset me. Why do the older folk not let Moune sevadaars do certain things?? At the end of the day, I didnt have a clue what I was doing, and Bhaji obviously knew how to make some lovely Parshaad... so why wasnt he allowed to prepare it?

I dont want to start an arguement or anything, but it just seems to me that once again we have an issue of certain individuals imposing their own laws at the Gurdwara. Why does this happen?? because I havnt seen anybody say anything like that to a Bhanji who had cut hair (I dont mean to point fingers at people)..

I vaguely remember when I was around 3-4 years old, our family lived in Horely/Crawley area, the community had a small local Gurdwara - however, due to there not being many Sikhs in the area, the Guru Granth Sahib Ji was sometimes recited by a Mouna etc... Ok, so the community didnt have a choice in that particular situation, but I cant see how/why others should stop people doing seva if they are willing and capable?

Any ideas/comments... or am I completely wrong to question that?

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my guess would be simply becuz he has comitted a kurehit (visibly obvious)

for example, if u saw a singh standing outside the gurdwara with a fag in his mouth, then he came in after, i wudnt let him make karah parshad

i heard when u get 2 high spiritual levels u can "feel" a difference in food depending on who its prepared by. i know someone who vomits up their food if a non-amritdhari prepares it.

but it is still a bit unfair, he shud have just said amritdharis only, not kesadharis only.

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i personally think it's kind of off when people don't eat from non-amritdharees, but i can understand when they don't want to eat from people who drink alcohol/eat meat/do other things as such which go against sikh maryada... because you might feel like you can't *trust* that person's food - but i don't think all non-amritdharee people are 'non-trustable' - some non-amritdharee people are extremely pure - and even other religious people, for example, buddhists, are really really health/food concious... so it really depends on the individual - that's with general food though.. degh is different..

when it comes to the preparation of degh (parshaad) people say that only amritdharees should prepare it - it seems more *proper* but i don't know the exact reason of why - perhaps because some people don't feel comfortable when degh is prepared by non-amritdharees... degh is like a gift from the guru, something you get from guru jee after being in sangat and visiting the gurdwara... it's like a representation of the guru.. generally the most pure sikhs who follow rehat are those who have taken khande kee paul (amrit), because when people are TRULY devoted to sikhi, they get up and take amrit, proclaiming that they are prepared to give their HEAD to guru jee... it's mostly the amritdharee sikhs that are more pure and learned and devoted to sikhi.. that doesn't mean they're "better" or more superior, but sometimes it makes more sense for them to prepare stuff like degh because it's reflecting and representing the guru - it's basically coming from the guru... only someone who has A LOTTTT of devotion should be able to do seva like that..

it's the same thing with the 5 pyare - non-amritdharee people can't be in the 5 pyare because in order to be a part of the panj, you have to be one of the most pure and strong sikhs - who really really really obeys rehat and has a lot of knowledge and love for sikhi - someone who has given their head to guru jee...and it has been said that amrit is the first rehat that makes you a sikh..

I still think it's wrong, however, to say that kesdharee people can make degh but non-kesdharee people can't - i think its about amrit not kes... what do you guys think?

I also think its true that people don't discriminate against woman who cut their hair as much as they do with men who cut their hair.. Perhaps this is because with men who cut their hair, it's more noticible.. Many amritdharee girls only wear chunis, just like non-amritdharee girls, so its hard to tell the difference.. If most amritdharee girls wore keskis, it would be a different story. :wink:

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trust the non amritdhari thing is def not fake it is def a tradition of the guru.......read max arther macaulliffes books he briefly touches on it......and there are alot of rehitnamas which say dont eat from the monnay or the patits.

at our low manmukh spiritual stage it wont make a difference, but once ur at bramgyani stage, eg baba ishar singh, u will definately feel a difference.

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trust the non amritdhari thing is def not fake it is def a tradition of the guru.......read max arther macaulliffes books he briefly touches on it......and there are alot of rehitnamas which say dont eat from the monnay or the patits.

at our low manmukh spiritual stage it wont make a difference, but once ur at bramgyani stage, eg baba ishar singh, u will definately feel a difference.

so what about people who bring mahapurshes to their home to do langar di seva for them.... if they are monay they will say "oh i aint eating from ur hands" :roll:

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this whole thing of not eating food prepared by a mona is bullshit.

the whole world is fully of Jhoot, only one thing is Sach and that is Akal Purak. and if your at a bramgyni stage, i doubt they look at you apperance much, they look at you heart, eyes.

Critising a man is like critising the creation of god. (Bhagat Kabir Ji)

Live and let live.

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this whole thing of not eating food prepared by a mona is bullshit.

the whole world is fully of Jhoot, only one thing is Sach and that is Akal Purak. and if your at a bramgyni stage, i doubt they look at you apperance much, they look at you heart, eyes.

Critising a man is like critising the creation of god. (Bhagat Kabir Ji)

Live and let live.

very well said

hmm a question to da rest

yup i think i agree qwith GAbroo Khalistan da

dat when Amritdhaarisdont eat Langar prepared by a non-amrit dhari

is like pakhand or

BRAMAN BIRTI

a Brahman wont eat from da hands of a low csted

N i think the Amritdhari with such thoughts have BRAHMAN BIRTI

innit?

coz

in our Gurdwara A family wwhich is Amritdhaari doesn't eat DEgh

coz its not prepared by ne 1 in THIER family

even though a Amritdahri has prepared it

n i think its all pakhand

but i can be wrong

coz:

hum khin khin bhullan har

what u all think?

//BHULLA CHUKKA MAAF

WJKK WJKF

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Im glad Im not the only one who feels like this.

Im not too clued up on stories in Sikh :oops: , but I swear I can remember a story when Guru-ji visited a town, in which a rich guy invited Guru-ji to his palace for a meal. Guru-ji refused to go and ate at a common lady's house. etc... you know how it goes, the rich guys roti was made of blood, whilst the common lady's was of pure white milk..

Would that common lady not have been a non-amritdhari lady? Im not to sure, but I honestly doubt that guru-ji would have refused food from non-amritdhari people...

At the most, like anybody else, I would of assumed that hygiene is the only real issue?

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at our low manmukh spiritual stage it wont make a difference, but once ur at bramgyani stage, eg baba ishar singh, u will definately feel a difference.

Baba ishar singh ji rara sahib or any bhramgyanis even ate from un-touchables.....

Bhramgyanis suppose to see god in every being....the claim you just made got no base.....

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i agree with r k bhanji

langar still seems ok, cuz it truly demonstrates the fact that langar is for everyone by everyone....kinda like FUBU...but more like.. FEBE...or smoething

but yeah, Degh is questionable in my opinion..i'm not sure why... it just seems like something so much more..official..i dunno... imho, it just seems different

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The seva of Degh is usually given to Singhs who have a strong bibek and their prepared food is acceptable to all Singhs. In Bibeksar RaN Sabaaiees this seva is given to Malleeaa(n) valay Singhs because of their "babbar bibek" ie. hardcore bibek.

First the Singhs preparing Degh must do full ishnaan and wear fresh clothes. No pyjaamee should be worn when preparing degh. The KaRas must be scrubbed clean as well as the kirpaan. Then the area in which degh is to be prepared must be throughly cleaned. All utensils to prepare degh must be of only Sarbloh and not have any kind of rust on them. The Sarbloh utensils should "shine like silver". The area in which Degh is prepared should be aside and not open to the public eyes or traffic. Preferabbly the whole area should be open to the degh sevaadaars alone.

I won't go into the recipe for degh, but when preparing degh, the Singhs should keep their mouths and noses covered and recite either gurbaaNee or gurmantar.

When Degh is ready, if possible, it should be transferred to a sarbloh bata and then covered with a thin white cloth and taken into sangat, where a cleaned table/khaRaunchee is present. If there is too much degh for it to fit in any baTa, ie. at a big smaagam, it should be carried into sangat in the kaRaahee it was prepared in, still covered in white cloth. In some places degh is carried in buckets into the divaan which is wrong.

The Singhs who prepared the degh should themselves sit at pehraa of the degh or appoint another tyaar-bar tyaar Khalsa to do so. The degh should be cooled, if at all possible, before bringing it into sangat. It's not desirable to openly cool it in sangat.

When it is time to for ardaas and bhog, the kirpaan which has been scrubbed should again be rinsed in water and dried. Bhog can then be done after ardaas has be done for it.

When it is time to distribute the degh, these sevadaars should also be tyaar-bar tyaar khalsas with strong bibek. They too should not wear pyjamees. The first 5 servings go to the first 5 Khalsa in sangat, then a bata is set aside for the Granthi once s/he is done their duties.

All batas used for distributing should be only sarbloh and covered with white cloth. The sevadaars should also cover their nose and mouth when doing this seva. The sevaadaars should distribute all the degh and then take whatever is left over, but it should not be more than the servings given to the sangat, although in such a circumstance as a lot of sangat, it can be less.

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"One of the edicts given at the Baptismal ceremony is:

Gursikh di roti beti di saanjh Gursikh naal.

The Gursikhs have to share food and establish marital relationships with Gursikhs only "

"Jay Kurahtieye Jag Darsaawat.

Pahul Peeay Kukaram Kamaavat.

Tin So Vartan Nahe Milaawey.

Rahey Nirlep Param Sukh Paavey.

(Rahitnamaa Bhai Desa Singh Ji)

Gursikhs are not to socialize or associate with those who have become apostates. Only then will they lead unaffected and happy lives."

"Bhai Daya Singh rehitnaama contains the following bachans: "Bhojanaad Moundit naal chhakey, Tankhaiyaa" or One who eats food with a Mona/non-Sikh, is guilty of a breach of conduct (Piara Singh Padam’s Rehitnamay pg. 72)"

"The Rehitnama Hazooree by Chaupa Singh says "Guru kaa Sikh...apaNy langar rasoee vich Sikh rakhey. Hukaie, Topeeaa, BhaadNee, chor, yaar, jooaybaaz, kurehiteeyaa na rakhai" meaining "A Guru ka Sikh...should keep only a Sikh in his langar and kitchen. Smokers, hat-wearers, shaven people, theieves, gamblers, kurehitees should not be kept" (Padam, 85)."

"In Sau Sakhee, sakhee #8’s rehitnama it says clearly "So Sikh gur ka janeeay, Monay ann na khai" meaning: such is a Sikh of The Guru who does not eat the food of Monay/Non-Sikhs."

"Choraan, Jaaran, Randiaan, Kuttaneeya Di Baan.

Vedinaa Ki Dosti Vedinaa Ka Khaann

Sifti Saar Naa Jannani, Sada Vasey Shaitaan. (ang 790)

It is the habit of thieves, adulterers, prostitutes, and pimps that they contract friendship with the irreligious or faithless and eat their food; they know not the worth of God's praise and Satan ever abides within them. "

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mugemach singh- wot u said is completely right.

so if a amritdhari person for example was telling lies all day and then a non amritdhari who's heart was pure and was a good person had the chance of making langar or parshaad who would you pick? i'm not amritdhari but my mumiji is and she still eats at our house. i do paath, i dont cut my hair nor do i drink, i eat meat though. Someone said previously that a meat eater may not be trusted to make food? i have ultimate respect for my mumiji for making such a sacrifice for guru ji, i would never even think of ever putting meat in her food or any thing like that! everyone has the right to serve their guruji no matter what!

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One who eats food with a Mona/non-Sikh, is guilty of a breach of conduct

Once again - I dont mean to be picky or anything, but isnt Langar supposed to be communal kitchen?? everybody is treated as equals and eat together?

I know its going a little off the topic, but just asking.

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the whole world is full of jhoot except SACH, and sach is always sucha, not jhootha, so really it shouldn't matter who you share your food from. But out of hygiene and warfare tactics, sikhs adopts this concept of not eating from the same plate.

Do you realise how hurt someone could get if you said to them, "i cant eat is because it your jhoot".(i repeat the whole world is full of jhoot except SACH, and sach is always sucha) If you are really unhappy with this jhoot thing, don't tell them that its jhoota, just ask them for something else, like a orange and kela (banana), because in theory, you have to peel it so that means that it is 'appatently Sucha'.... (but nothing is sucha except Sach.

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