Mekhane'ch Jannat Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The european medicinal view is an inverted form of the truth. It is limited only to the effects of the drug on the human body. The view of cannabis from this perspective is a purely materialistic one. The psychological effects of schizophrenia and disturbed states of mind may in different more 'spiritual' cultures and environments may have served useful purposes in orientating individuals with higher realities, the difference between a Bhakta and a Pagle is fine. Rather than blaming cannabis it is the prevalent 'rituals' through which cannabis is imbibed that determines the affect on the mind, positive or negative. Also the plant is a being it has a level of consciousness, the plant must be 'asked' before it is cut and used, the manner in which it is grown, what time of day or night it is harvested will all contribute to the affect of cannabis on the human. In short if cannabis is prepared by conscious people for conscious aims then it is 'good' if it is used negligently for egotistic aims then it is 'evil' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) There is no point comparing Amli Nangs with Nihangs. Nihangs themselves look down upon addicts. I personally never came across green shaheedi degh, you were obviously in all the wrong places! Nihang Singhs do Degh seva - as has always been done. There is nothing for you to question. Very interesting post Mekhane'ch Jannat, thanks for that. Obviously - approach and attitude are key in all actions - that an ardaas is done over the degh to make it parvaan is an example of this, something the neophytes forget. Edited November 11, 2009 by shaheediyan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 ..... something the neophytes forget. Off-topic, but what have neophytes got to do with anything? Maybe my dictionary is wrong but...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhane'ch Jannat Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Off-topic, but what have neophytes got to do with anything? Maybe my dictionary is wrong but...... he means begginers, people starting on the path 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 The european medicinal view is an inverted form of the truth. It is limited only to the effects of the drug on the human body. The view of cannabis from this perspective is a purely materialistic one. The psychological effects of schizophrenia and disturbed states of mind may in different more 'spiritual' cultures and environments may have served useful purposes in orientating individuals with higher realities, the difference between a Bhakta and a Pagle is fine. seems awfully convenient. if a person starts hearing voices, or begins feeling paranoid from cannibus use, it's definitely not b/c they are getting in touch with higher realities. i'm aware that cannibus can open up a persons creative side and get them in touch with their subconscious mind, but that's hardly worthwhile given the side effects over a prolonged period of time. a healthy mind is required to reach higher mystical states, and over a period of time all these shortcuts slowly destroy the health of a persons mind. of course, that doesn't mean that they lack the ability to open up the subconscious etc., but there are other safer means. the use of drugs to reach higher realities is a fallacy. the american mystic Emerson warned against them, claiming they are always a dead end. Even on this thread, the extremely limited rational spiritual use of cannibus, to help deal with pain of prolonged meditation or settle the mind at early stages, does not allow for cannibus to be used to take us to higher levels. instead it's simply another thing that helps stabilise the mind, like diet, and the helps the body deal with pain, like advil. i'm not saying you are seeing it this way, but too many people see drugs as some sort of magical key. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) The way I am seeing it now. Sukha or bhang was most probably used as a relaxant between battles. It can help alleviate anxiety (although it can also do the opposite!) There is no way THC (the active substance of the weed) can actually help a fighter in battle. I read an European extract from the late 1700s that explicitly said that Singhs took bhang AFTER fatigues. Will try and dig that up later and post it. Cannabis itself has no direct analgesic (pain killing) effect so anyone claiming that it was used for this is plain wrong. Although some special conditions do seem to become more bearable with the substance i.e. multiple sclerosis, this doesn't correspond to war injuries. Opium, however does have analgesic effects (hence the use of morphine even today). So this may have been used to suppress pain from battle wounds. But lets be frank here. Knowing Panjabis, a fair proportion of takers (past and present) would be indulging simply for this reason: Edited November 12, 2009 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhane'ch Jannat Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Xylitol i totally agree with you. Use of drugs in modern society to advance spiritually is dangerous and bad for society. Remember Timothy Leary and his buddies in the US experimenting with LSD. After experiencing short periods of mystical consciousness when returning into normal life, because they had not prepared and disciplined themselves according to a correct moral-religious teaching, they twisted what they saw and confused levels of consciousness. They spawned this decadent american culture of party hard and depravity because of this. My point is in relation to Nihangs in the past consuming cannibus, a very different culture and attitude to nature was in Human Beings. To judge why they took it from our modern scientific-rational viewpoint is akin to judging something by standards that the thing has no conception of. The Imago MUndi of the Nihangs is not the Imago Mundi of modern 20th century man. SO to talk about the physical effects of cannibus as a sort of bottom line in judging why Nihangs took cannibus is nonsensical we can never understand why they took it if we contunue to think in the way modern society has conditioned us. And it will get harder and harder to justify certain older practices unless people start coming out of the newtonian slumber western rationalistic science has imposed upon them. THC the active ingredient of cannibus is not an objective trigger to create a certain state in every human being. Each persons reaction will vary according to their BEING what they are, and also therefore the influences the Human is under. A human under different influences will react differently to THC. A modern bunner living in a stress society that increases tensions and useless desires in people, will react differently to a Nihang living under the open sky more in tune with nature and not having the same pressures on him as modern society. So to say THC has this affect and therefore NIhangs would not have taken it is an obliteration of the subtelties in human nature that makes us Human. Unfortunately western science has the habit to reduce humans to some sort of prima materia well if you worship matter eventually you will become it - in its pure form of course 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Another great post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Very good point Mr. Jannat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SukhNidhan Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thats exactly what I was saying. You can't compare 'smoking pure cannabis' to the method of preparation and intake for Shaheedi Degh, where Sukha (5 pathhe) is a minor ingredient and induces zero 'ammal', where by women and children can take it to. He clearly says this is 'Gurus maryada'. Its also good thi comes from Baba Nihal Singh, as many western Taksali youth etc misinformed youths usually promote him as a 'real Nihang'. Yes he is. And he respects Chatka tradition, even though I don't think he partakes himself (although members of his Dal do). Good that Baba Ji also explained the seperate usage of Sukha for helping injured Singhs (limbs cut off etc) - whereby no other method of pain relief was available. These are real Nihang traditions and historical records of Yudh and Seva. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 ts also good thi comes from Baba Nihal Singh, as many western Taksali youth etc misinformed youths usually promote him as a 'real Nihang'. Yes he is. And he respects Chatka tradition, even though I don't think he partakes himself (although members of his Dal do). exactly, if above audio is not enough for people who uses baba nihal singh ji as token to promote some of their mindset ie- neela bana, anti meat stance, anti sukha stance then i may have video of amrit sanchar of baba nihal singh ji talking of such maryada for them which i rather not share but only at last resort. Look guys i m against consuming meat/sukha as well but i m not hell bent on making everyone in the panth vegetarians as but i like to see understanding about different level of diets belonging different gunas of khalsa. My claim is- 150 years ago jhatka and sukha topics were non-existent or non issue. It became an issue with right wing-bhausarias. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 There is so much evidence supporting meat eating amongst amritdhari Sikhs from both external and internal sources that I am surprised that anyone still tries to force the vege issue these days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 My claim is- 150 years ago jhatka and sukha topics were non-existent or non issue. It became an issue with right wing-bhausarias. No it was already a problem with the Tat Khalsa and Bandai Khalsa.. you can't blame everything on bhausaria 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 No it was already a problem with the Tat Khalsa and Bandai Khalsa.. you can't blame everything on bhausaria May be in the dal but not whole of panth.?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 May be in the dal but not whole of panth.?? Here is a quote from Bhangu's Panth Prakash on the matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Thanks dalsingh..that was eye opener..i guess i was wrong should have backed up claim with sources.. do we puratan source for consuming sukha difference of opinions as well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Where did you get that book from. beautiful 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Sukh Niddan should only be used in times of war.It should only be a painkiller.What other reason is there to use it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 true bhaji, but doesnt a Sikh practice war everyday? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 What enemies are we facing besides the panj chor?Are we getting bloodied up by people?Are we in injuries everyday?Are we living in jungles?The answer is no.We aren't in any persecution.We in the west live comfortably.Even in India the nihang Singh don't live too hard of a life.They aren't getting killed everyday or any time soon.I seen these things because I stayed in a dal for some time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 i didnt say anything about enemies bhaji, i was talking about practising for war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 i didnt say anything about enemies bhaji, i was talking about practising for war.We should but how is taking Sikh nidan preparing for war? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Take some and then tell us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Degh has pain killing effects , i have tried so have an idea and it also makes the mind concentrate in one direction 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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