shaheediyan Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Dalsingh, you need to spend time in a chhawnee, once yuo observe the superhuman seva Nihangs do, esp at Gurpurbs, Holla etc, you will see and understand how strong/fit they are. Don't base your opinion on a few photos of Bajurg or PT Nihangs. I was in Hazur Sahib last year and so many Nihang Dals with thousands of young Nihang Singhs, trust me, they were not armed with old weapons only, neither were they unfit. Nihangs prefered shastar of choice today are actually modern rifles/semi-automatics etc, although they still hold high regard for and keep puratan shastar. Nihangs hold in depth vidya of Jung ithihaas, Raj Niti etc etc, so they are not out of touch - strategic priniciples do not change in essence - Sikh have always been good at adopting whatever is needed (as is clear in every part of Sikh culture and faith) - what is core to yudh is the spirit - Nihangs preserve the key to warrior spirit. This is ot to say other Sikhs do not have this key or elements of it. Any T,D or H can learn how to use modern weapons, become fit/strong and follow commands etc - but that does not give them Nirbhau. 1984, did you ever consider that Nihangs may not have agreed with Baba Jarnail (in some aspects at least)? SGPC, Singh Sabha, Akali Dal were the custodians of Gurdwarai, what the heck did they do? They are the ones that displaced the Nihangs, and then they cry and point the finger afterwards when they were not able to 'defend' their source of income. You make 1984 sound so trivial - it was far more complicated than you make out. As you are so interested in blaming the Nihangs, let me ask you, have you actually asked them why they didn't get heavily involved... I guess not. Everything is so black and white in your world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Once again unsubstantiated statements. No one is saying that Nihangs did not fight with the Sikh army so there is no need to bolster your unsubstantiated statement about Dal Khalsa being Nihangs by bringing up another fact that no one has disputed. It is not unsubstantiated. get aquainted with sikh history and you will get enlightenment.Have you read the battle of Attock. If not read it to know the valour of Guru kian ladlian faujan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Some have a tendency to read sikh history through colored lenses. They are inclined to believe more what is written by foreign employees of Maharaja ranjit singh. I have some books of such employees with me. Most of them paint very negative picture about sikh rule in general. So their writings are to not be taken seriously as they indulge in character vilification of sikhs in general and saintly figures in particular.They have a different perspective of life as for as religion is concerned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Shaheediyan, You must be reading the wrong posting if you think that I make 1984 sound so trivial! FYI the non-Nihang Sikhs did a good job protecting the Gurdwaras and the way in the Kharkoos fought both during Bluestar and after bring back the memories of Sikh heroes like Garja Singh, Bota Singh, Mehtab Singh and others. While the Kharkoos were fighting the government Santa Singh was sitting around under guard with a detachment of cigarette smoking and pan chewing Bhaiyas of the CRPF! What more can be said about him at that time? So pray tell me how was 1984 so complicated that the Nihangs did nothing for the Panth? I have heard a number of excuses given by Nihangs about 1984, one was that the whole episode was a government plan to wipe out the Sikhs and had the Nihangs joined in the fray then it would have given the GOI an excuse to kill all Sikhs! This was told to me by an old Nihang during a bus journey from Jagraon to Ludhiana in 1988. Other excuses that I have come across include such things as the Panth did not have a plan and Baba Jarnail Singh should have taken all the Jathebandis into his confidence before launching the movement! What bigger disgrace is there that those who claimed to be the so-called Laadliyan Faujan who had for the last 200 years been living of the achievements of Dal Khalsa, when push came to shove they meekly stood by while thousands of common Sikhs were killed. As I wrote before the Nihangs can spin the events of 1984 and after all they like but their actions or particularly lack of actions will take a great deal of time for Sikhs to forget if they ever forget at all. Singh2, Your posts are a waste of time to respond to as they have no relevance to the topic at hand, you seem to want to write any old bukwas which comes to mind. Therefore this will be my last response to you. Edited November 11, 2009 by tonyhp32 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Acchha Bhai Sahib. Tuhaanu tuhaadi nafrat mubaarak. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 WJKK! WJKF! It isn't fair to say that Nihangs did not fight in 1984. Baba Nihal Singh Ji Harianbelan wale was severely tortured and left for dead by the police. Many of the Singhs under him fought as well, as did Nihangs who were near the 40 odd other Gurudwarey that were attacked. There are a few photos of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji speaking to Baba Nihal Singh Ji shortly before Bluestar. Baba Ji says that Sant ji was a great jodhaa sent to wake up the panth. Point is - you can't generalise, whether speaking of Nihangs or other Sikhs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Singh2, Your posts are a waste of time to respond to as they have no relevance to the topic at hand, you seem to want to write any old bukwas which comes to mind. Therefore this will be my last response to you. When people run out of arguement they forward such excuses. It is you who fabricates stories to defame respected sect of sikhs that command wide respect among sikhs. To say that Nihungs did not contribute in struggle of 1984 is sheer nonsense of an ignorant mind. This also shows the writer is either misinformed, does not know about sikh affairs or has an agenda. When attack on Darbar sahib was enacted a curfew was clamped on Amritsar. Press dometic as well as foreign was banned. So there was hardly any documented news to tell of horrible tragedy that took place there. But we have local knowledge about what happened there. Baba Nihal singh harianwela is a leader of Trana dal Nihung sikhs. After Sant Bhindrewale( I am yet to hear any appreciation for Sant ji from this character) was eliminated Baba Nihal singh was caught and was asked to modify his views. Baba ji was very close to sant Bhindrewale. Baba ji refused to budge. he was severely tortured and remained for a long stint in jail. There is another Nihung Jathebandi known as Baba Bidhi chand Nihung sikhs. They are led by Baba Dya singh ji and are headquartered at Sur singh Jhabal near Amritsar. When Golden temple was encircled Baba ji set out with his followers to Golden temple to assist singhs trapped inside. His followers were strafed by helicopter gunships and scores wee killed. baba ji is still alive. I wonder how can someone who calls himself a sikh follows an agenda to spread lies about a respected sect of sikhs. Edited November 12, 2009 by singh2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 WJKK! WJKF! It isn't fair to say that Nihangs did not fight in 1984. Baba Nihal Singh Ji Harianbelan wale was severely tortured and left for dead by the police. Many of the Singhs under him fought as well, as did Nihangs who were near the 40 odd other Gurudwarey that were attacked. There are a few photos of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji speaking to Baba Nihal Singh Ji shortly before Bluestar. Baba Ji says that Sant ji was a great jodhaa sent to wake up the panth. Point is - you can't generalise, whether speaking of Nihangs or other Sikhs. matheen They were close to each other. in fact there was a rumour that Nihal singh ji will take over leadership of sikh struggle after Sant ji had died. But Baba ji was arrested and severly tortured. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 WJKK! WJKF! It isn't fair to say that Nihangs did not fight in 1984. Baba Nihal Singh Ji Harianbelan wale was severely tortured and left for dead by the police. Many of the Singhs under him fought as well, as did Nihangs who were near the 40 odd other Gurudwarey that were attacked. There are a few photos of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji speaking to Baba Nihal Singh Ji shortly before Bluestar. Baba Ji says that Sant ji was a great jodhaa sent to wake up the panth. Point is - you can't generalise, whether speaking of Nihangs or other Sikhs. The odd Nihang here and there does not mean that the Nihangs made a great contribution to the struggle. It's a bit like saying that the Punjab police made a contribution to the struggle because a few Punjab policemen had joined the struggle as well. What I am referring to is the general body of Nihangs who stood by and did nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) One thing that comes clear from reading Euro accounts of Akalis/Nihungs is that they were always at the forefront of battles and cared little for life or death. They were also the ones who would get in the face of highly placed people frequently. You cannot compare the nihungs that fought in conflicts, such as with the Afghans in NWFP, with the ones of today. The extract below seems to chronicle the demise of the Akalis to the Anglo-Sikh conflict. After which they seem to have lost their military strength and original fervour. I presume this is the time when surviving remnants made their famous exodus to Hazoor Sahib? Does anyone know what Dal Akali Phoola Singh was part of? Did his army constitute the majority of the Nihungs or where other dals around as well? According to contemporary records he had about 3000 to 4000 Akali followers. By the end of the campaign at the NWFP less than 100 remained from the force he took there. It would seem that the number of nihungs in M. Ranjit Singhs time was in the thousands and they served an auxillary function to the main state force. The were comparitively small in number to the main force but helped reverse many battles for the state. Edited November 12, 2009 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 1984, did you ever consider that Nihangs may not have agreed with Baba Jarnail (in some aspects at least)? probably. but they had so much time to say so as the morcha went on for almost 2 years, but they never even opened their mouths to say we do or do not support the panth, but suddenly when the army action has happened Baba Santa Singh, says that he would have done such and such. but for 2 years not a squeak out of him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 The odd Nihang here and there does not mean that the Nihangs made a great contribution to the struggle. It's a bit like saying that the Punjab police made a contribution to the struggle because a few Punjab policemen had joined the struggle as well. What I am referring to is the general body of Nihangs who stood by and did nothing. spot on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zulu Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) was that Baba Santa Singh Ji talking early intha prog? if so, then how long ago was this film made? and didnt a nihang singh shoot a goat? can anyone explain this? chatka can be also done with a gun,awesome dont you think? ifyou read in the masters presence you will read the part about if i remember correctly fromthe top ofmy head how guru ji in nanded told singhs to shoot some goats in the head and prepare them. Edited November 20, 2009 by zulu 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 chatka can be also done with a gun,awesome dont you think? ifyou read in the masters presence you will read the part about if i remember correctly fromthe top ofmy head how guru ji in nanded told singhs to shoot some goats in the head and prepare them. I usually try to stay out of nihang internal affairs but this one i have to comment...never heard of this claim before. Chatka could be done with gun, you sure after goat is shot, can it be called c h a t k a at the first place? Have you shared this part with jathedars of budda dal, nihang dals. I am sure they will learn thing or two from new age nihangs coming out with some shocking revelations. so whats next? chatka can be done by cannon(toop)?? aah nah screw that, lets just drop b52 bombs on these poor goats, don't even have to cook either, all should be fried with the heat. How very convenient and awesome init? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) What if you attach explosives to the goat and blow it up? Instead of a suicide bombing you will call it suicide chatka lol Edited November 20, 2009 by amardeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Neo, You'll be kicking yourself if it turns out that Chatka can be done by a shot to the head because it's mentioned in some secret text that no one by the Nihangs know about! If there's one thing good that Niddar and Parmjit Singh are doing, it's that by bringing out all the obscure beliefs, acts and rituals of the Nihangs is that just how far removed they are from the ideal image of the Khalsa as envisonaged by the majority of Sikhs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 According to mahan kosh and gurmat martand chatka by a gun is considered chatka.... It isn`t contrived or anything...and isn`t obscure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Chatka with a cannon?! What a brilliant idea. Mind you it took us 200 years to think of it. I think nowadays it would have to be chatka by kalashnikov. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Chatka with a cannon?! What a brilliant idea. Mind you it took us 200 years to think of it. I think nowadays it would have to be chatka by kalashnikov. Are you kidding me? That is way too advance for our guys. They have to use WW2 vintage .303 rifles and sten guns. lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zulu Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 According to mahan kosh and gurmat martand chatka by a gun is considered chatka.... It isn`t contrived or anything...and isn`t obscure. thank you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 its da one strike kill thing isnt it. it just looks kinda funny more than anything. what if the blood was needed for tilak of shastar? would you get enough blood from the goat this way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 When this guy said 'Coming soon' was he being funny? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GillAUS Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 (edited) Ha it's "Indian Timing" brother.. coming soon = maybe some time in the next year or two That being said, I would love to see what this guy has managed to produce and am seriously looking forward to its release.. but yes, won't be holding my breath any time soon though Edited May 16, 2010 by GillAUS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 GMT brother. Ginni Murjee Time. I hope it doesn't go the same way as the 'Sarbloh Warriors' project. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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