Dasam Granth?

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and 'Y' Baabaa Jee!

It seems you have spent a lot of time studying 'The Dasam Granth'. Many questions have thus come up, that you go on asking. I got some curiosity after reading your questions. I hope you will answer those time to time and satisfy the quest.

Here is the seeker's first quest.

You mentioned that the poet Shyaam wrote the Bachittar Naatak. The beginning of Bachittar Naatak is this.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥

ੴ satigur prasaadi.

ਅਥ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਲਿਖਯਤੇ ॥

अथ बचित्र नाटक ग्रंथ लिखयते ॥

ath bachitra naatak granth likhyate.

ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

त्वप्रसादि ॥

twaprasaadi.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਬਾਕ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥

स्री मुखबाक पातशाही १०॥

sri mukhvaak paatshahi 10.

May I ask why the poet Shyaam did not write 'Mukhvaak poet Shyaam' in the beginning? Please explain this. I will be grateful.

*****

I do Naam Simran and pray for further development of the consciousness when I cannot understand Gurdev's Vaak.

Strange, you start imagining the end of DG. Why?

Balbir Singh

[Maha Singh]

A question to the anti dasam granth brigade, If it could be established without a shadow of a doubt that Sri Dasam Granth was the 100% rachna of Sri Guru Gobind Singh, would you accept it? Including the Pakhyan Chritrar. If not, then these debates are pointless and you guys are not interested in finding the truth out, rather your own mindsets prevent you from truely seeking the truth and you wish to spread conjecture in order to make people follow your view.

If you would accept it, what is the current evidence you have regarding the compiling of Sri Dasam Granth [in terms of historical fact and dates] and what is the earliest Dasam Granth you have come accross?

Your main arguement is that "Guru Gobind Singh couldnt have written this", since when did your own minds become the touchstone of truth for your own Guru, are you higher then your own Guru? People of the Gurus times called the Guru a madman when he demanded heads in 1699, people from the times of Guru Hargobind Sahibs times questioned the taking up of arms and hunting, and now in our time we have people casting doubt upon the accepted writings of the tenth nanak.

If your own minds feel ashamed or are aroused by reading Charitrars, then that must be a furna caused by your own vikars. If you question the worshipping of weapons, then you obviously have no idea how much obedience a warrior would require when he learns the art of war. How can a soldier use a sword when he does not care for it, clean it, sharpen it, and namaskar it ontop of his own physical training. That sword which protects your life and your dharam in battle is worthy of worship.

[Matheen]

Excellent post Maha Singh. I think they wouldn't accept it if Guru Sahib stood in front of them and said He wrote it.

You would think they were all born of immaculate conceptions.

[shaheediyan]

To the Sikh Pilospee brigade:

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

Yoda - Jedi Grand Master

[singh2]

Sarbat da pala ji

Since this Gurunindak is mentioning about intoxicants written in Dasam granth sahib, please let him know that Charitopkahyan is in dialogue form between a Minister and his king. Minister is telling stories( Many of them but not all) of bad women and bad men.These intoxicants are written in that context. It in no way means that Dasam granth promotes these intoxicants. Story is a story. let this fool know this.

Coming to charitras 21,22 and 23 he is referring again and again. See below

At the start of charitropakhayan Guru sahib writes

ਅਥ ਪਖ੍ਯਾਨ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਲਿਖ੍ਯਤੇ ॥

अथ पख्यान चरित्र लिख्यते ॥

Pakhayan means Story coming out of existing story

Charitra= Character

ਲਿਖ੍ਯਤੇ= writing

In charitra 2 where the plot of charitra starts, it is Raja Chittar singh of town chittarwati

ਚਿਤ੍ਰਵਤੀ ਨਗਰੀ ਬਿਖੈ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਏਕ ॥ ਤੇ ਕੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਸੰਪਤਿ ਘਨੀ ਰਥ ਗਜ ਬਾਜ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧॥

चित्रवती नगरी बिखै चित्र सिंघ न्रिप एक ॥ ते के ग्रिह स्मपति घनी रथ गज बाज अनेक ॥१॥

ਏਕ ਅਪਸਰਾ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਕੇ ਜਾਤ ਸਿੰਗਾਰ ਬਨਾਇ ॥ ਨਿਰਖ ਰਾਇ ਅਟਕਤਿ ਭਈ ਕੰਜ ਭਵਰ ਕੇ ਭਾਇ ॥੩॥

एक अपसरा इंद्र के जात सिंगार बनाइ ॥ निरख राइ अटकति भई कंज भवर के भाइ ॥

Rai means king and not Guru.

Then in the end of every charitra is written

ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਖ੍ਯਾਨੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੀ ਭੂਪ ਸੰਬਾਦੇ ਦੁਤਿਯ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਮਾਪਤਮ ਸਤੁ ਸੁਭਮ ਸਤੁ ॥੨॥੭੮॥ਅਫਜੂੰ॥

इति स्री चरित्र पख्याने त्रिया चरित्रे मंत्री भूप स्मबादे दुतिय चरित्र समापतम सतु सुभम सतु

That means that a story from an existing story is being told by a minister to king Chittar singh whose setting is ancient period.

Then charitra 15 we come across

ਏਕ ਬਿਮਾਤ੍ਰਾ ਭਾਨ ਕੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਪੁਰ ਬੀਚ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਪੁਰਖਨ ਸੌ ਰਤਿ ਕਰੈ ਊਚ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ਨੀਚ ॥੨॥

एक बिमात्रा भान की रामदास पुर बीच ॥ बहु पुरखन सौ रति करै ऊच न जानै नीच ॥२॥

ਭਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਕਰਤੇ ਬਡੋ ਸੁਪਨ ਦਿਯੋ ਪਤਿ ਆਇ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਹੌ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ਕੇ ਜਰਤ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਪੁਰ ਜਾਇ ॥੮॥

भान करो करते बडो सुपन दियो पति आइ ॥ ता ते हौ हरि राइ के जरत कीरति पुर जाइ ॥८॥

In the above charitra name of Ramdass pur( Amritsar) is mentioned. It is also mentioned that lady brought her son to kirtapur.

When Guru ji writes that now i am going to write pakhyan that itself says that it is a story coming out of another story.

Secondly the story is being recited by a minister to his king.That itself proves that settings are fictional. It is art of story telling to take story to greater height. Story is a story and not history.

Coming charitra 21, in charitra 20 it is written

ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬੰਦ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਮਾਝ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਪੂਤ ਡਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਭਈ ਭੋਰ ਬਹੁਰੌ ਨਿਕਟ ਕੋ ਹਕਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਤਬੈ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਯੋ ਰਾਇ ਸੋ ਬੈਨ ਭਾਖ੍ਯੋ ॥ ਚਿਤਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਕੇ ਪੂਤ ਕੌ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਰਾਖ੍ਯੋ ॥੧॥

बहुरि बंद ग्रिह माझ न्रिप पूत डारियो ॥ भई भोर बहुरौ निकट को हकारियो ॥ तबै मंत्र यो राइ सो बैन भाख्यो ॥ चितर सिंघ के पूत कौ प्रान राख्यो ॥१॥

See the word Rai used for King chittra singh and story being told to him.

Coming to word sikh in charitra 21,word sikh has multiple meanings . Here sikh means servant. The same word is used for the servants of lady Noop Koer.see below

ਸੁਨਤ ਰਾਵ ਕੋ ਬਚ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਯ ਮਨਿ ਅਧਿਕ ਰਿਸਾਇ ॥ ਚੋਰ ਚੋਰ ਕਹਿ ਕੈ ਉਠੀ ਸਿਖ੍ਯਨ ਦਿਯੋ ਜਗਾਇ ॥੫੯॥

सुनत राव को बच स्रवन त्रिय मनि अधिक रिसाइ ॥ चोर चोर कहि कै उठी सिख्यन दियो जगाइ ॥५९॥

Esssence of understanding these stories is given at concluding part of Charitropakhayan after chaupai sahib where Guru ji writes

ਸੁਨੈ ਗੁੰਗ ਜੋ ਯਾਹਿ ਸੁ ਰਸਨਾ ਪਾਵਈ ॥ ਸੁਨੈ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਇ ਚਤੁਰਤਾ ਆਵਈ ॥

सुनै गुंग जो याहि सु रसना पावई ॥ सुनै मूड़्ह चित लाइ चतुरता आवई ॥

The dumb, who will listen to it, will be blessed with the tongue to speak; the fool, who will listen to it attentively, will get wisdom;

It is sheer ignorance to infer our own meanings when at end of every charitra it is written that story is being recited by a minister to his king.There are many other stories where name of towns come such as lahore,sialkot, bank of river Sutlej.It does not mean these are real incidents. If we understand the meaning of word pakhyan coupled with third person narration and setting of Charitras plot in Charitra 2 (which no one bothers to look at)we will not be making our own interpretations .

Let this heretic know above

[Mr Sardar]

x

Heres a question for you, If it could be established without a shadow of a doubt that Sri Dasam Granth was the 100% rachna of Sri Guru Gobind Singh, would you accept it? Including the Pakhyan Chritrar. If not, then these debates are pointless and you guys are not interested in finding the truth out, rather your own mindsets prevent you from truely seeking the truth and you wish to spread conjecture in order to make people follow your view.

Your main arguement is that "Guru Gobind Singh couldnt have written this", since when did your own mind become the touchstone of truth for your own Guru, are you higher then your own Guru? People of the Gurus times called the Guru a madman when he demanded heads in 1699, people from the times of Guru Hargobind Sahibs times questioned the taking up of arms and hunting, and now in our time we have people casting doubt upon the accepted writings of the tenth nanak.

If your own mind feels ashamed or are aroused by reading Charitrars, then that must be a furna caused by your own vikars. If you question the worshipping of weapons, then you obviously have no idea how much obedience a warrior would require when he learns the art of war. How can a soldier use a sword when he does not care for it, clean it, sharpen it, and namaskar it ontop of his own physical training. That sword which protects your life and your dharam in battle is worthy of worship.

y

These people have been making excuses, twisting things, basically everything to promote and declare DG as writing of Guru Gobind Singh Ji but haven't been able to. They won't be able to either. It promotes too many anti-Gurmat things. Also, they aren't my own mindsets. Were Gurbani quotes not given in the videos? Multiple slides.

Once again, not my mindset but Gurbani's. Gurbani's language, structure and message is what determines what is according to Gurmat. I am no one to invent own things. Could you please show me Nanak being used for writer in DG? You said a very good phrase in 'tenth nanak'. Think about it. Ninth Nanak came after 6th Nanak, he also wrote under name of Nanak. WHy? Panth belongs to Nanak. Nanak Nirmal Panth Chalaya. Not 'Dharam Chlavan'. Please understand and you will realize. Don't be fooled by blind faith.

DG is ashleel is due to my own vikaars? What a lame excuse. Was chamkila singing dirty songs or was that own vikaars of listeners too? Do answer this question. Lame excuses after lame excuses. By the way, CP debate will be over in 2 mins. I don't even need to get to the KK part. Regarding weapon worship, nations that have brain and know how to use weapons rule and ruled. E.g. British. What did our Sikhs do? Kept fighting each other. Bowing to weapons in manmat. They are to be practiced and used, not worshipped. Weapon worship is devi poojaa. It is condemned in Gurmat. Weapon is a lifeless weapon, the user determines its power and skill.

I play hockey, it lets me score goals. Should I start singing:

"Koho Tuhee. Sherwood Tuhee. Tuhee Nike Aur Bauer.

Fury Tuhee. Montreal Tuhee. Tuhee Reebok and DR.

Would you be singing the following these days:

You are AK. You are M16. You are Cannon on Tank.

You are the reason, empty is a country's bank.

or how about?

You are Gauri. You are Agnee. You are Fire.

Without fighting in a battle, many soldiers retire.

How would that help me play hockey better? It won't. Neither will it help me improve my skill. Making pictorial diagrams and describing how these weapons need to be used and how to block would have been much better than writing foolish tales. First part of Sastarnaam maalaa is devi ustat. Rest of the content is repetitive tales and there isn't any gyan in there.

How often do you do devi poojaa? DG sure says Devi Joo Kee Ustat Kathnung.

x

Charitopkahyan is in dialogue form between a Minister and his king. Minister is telling stories( Many of them but not all) of bad women and bad men.These intoxicants are written in that context. It in no way means that Dasam granth promotes these intoxicants. Story is a story.

Coming to charitras 21,22 and 23 See below

At the start of charitropakhayan Guru sahib writes

ਅਥ ਪਖ੍ਯਾਨ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਲਿਖ੍ਯਤੇ ॥

अथ पख्यान चरित्र लिख्यते ॥

Pakhayan means Story coming out of existing story

Charitra= Character

ਲਿਖ੍ਯਤੇ= writing

In charitra 2 where the plot of charitra starts, it is Raja Chittar singh of town chittarwati

ਚਿਤ੍ਰਵਤੀ ਨਗਰੀ ਬਿਖੈ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਏਕ ॥ ਤੇ ਕੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਸੰਪਤਿ ਘਨੀ ਰਥ ਗਜ ਬਾਜ ਅਨੇਕ ॥੧॥

चित्रवती नगरी बिखै चित्र सिंघ न्रिप एक ॥ ते के ग्रिह स्मपति घनी रथ गज बाज अनेक ॥१॥

ਏਕ ਅਪਸਰਾ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਕੇ ਜਾਤ ਸਿੰਗਾਰ ਬਨਾਇ ॥ ਨਿਰਖ ਰਾਇ ਅਟਕਤਿ ਭਈ ਕੰਜ ਭਵਰ ਕੇ ਭਾਇ ॥੩॥

एक अपसरा इंद्र के जात सिंगार बनाइ ॥ निरख राइ अटकति भई कंज भवर के भाइ ॥

Rai means king and not Guru.

Then in the end of every charitra is written

ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਖ੍ਯਾਨੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੀ ਭੂਪ ਸੰਬਾਦੇ ਦੁਤਿਯ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਮਾਪਤਮ ਸਤੁ ਸੁਭਮ ਸਤੁ ॥੨॥੭੮॥ਅਫਜੂੰ॥

इति स्री चरित्र पख्याने त्रिया चरित्रे मंत्री भूप स्मबादे दुतिय चरित्र समापतम सतु सुभम सतु

That means that a story from an existing story is being told by a minister to king Chittar singh whose setting is ancient period.

Then charitra 15 we come across

ਏਕ ਬਿਮਾਤ੍ਰਾ ਭਾਨ ਕੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਪੁਰ ਬੀਚ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਪੁਰਖਨ ਸੌ ਰਤਿ ਕਰੈ ਊਚ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ਨੀਚ ॥੨॥

एक बिमात्रा भान की रामदास पुर बीच ॥ बहु पुरखन सौ रति करै ऊच न जानै नीच ॥२॥

ਭਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਕਰਤੇ ਬਡੋ ਸੁਪਨ ਦਿਯੋ ਪਤਿ ਆਇ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਹੌ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ਕੇ ਜਰਤ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਪੁਰ ਜਾਇ ॥੮॥

भान करो करते बडो सुपन दियो पति आइ ॥ ता ते हौ हरि राइ के जरत कीरति पुर जाइ ॥८॥

In the above charitra name of Ramdass pur( Amritsar) is mentioned. It is also mentioned that lady brought her son to kirtapur.

When Guru ji writes that now i am going to write pakhyan that itself says that it is a story coming out of another story.

Secondly the story is being recited by a minister to his king.That itself proves that settings are fictional. It is art of story telling to take story to greater height. Story is a story and not history.

Coming charitra 21, in charitra 20 it is written

ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬੰਦ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਮਾਝ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਪੂਤ ਡਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਭਈ ਭੋਰ ਬਹੁਰੌ ਨਿਕਟ ਕੋ ਹਕਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਤਬੈ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਯੋ ਰਾਇ ਸੋ ਬੈਨ ਭਾਖ੍ਯੋ ॥ ਚਿਤਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਕੇ ਪੂਤ ਕੌ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਰਾਖ੍ਯੋ ॥੧॥

बहुरि बंद ग्रिह माझ न्रिप पूत डारियो ॥ भई भोर बहुरौ निकट को हकारियो ॥ तबै मंत्र यो राइ सो बैन भाख्यो ॥ चितर सिंघ के पूत कौ प्रान राख्यो ॥१॥

See the word Rai used for King chittra singh and story being told to him.

Coming to word sikh in charitra 21,word sikh has multiple meanings . Here sikh means servant. The same word is used for the servants of lady Noop Koer.see below

ਸੁਨਤ ਰਾਵ ਕੋ ਬਚ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਯ ਮਨਿ ਅਧਿਕ ਰਿਸਾਇ ॥ ਚੋਰ ਚੋਰ ਕਹਿ ਕੈ ਉਠੀ ਸਿਖ੍ਯਨ ਦਿਯੋ ਜਗਾਇ ॥੫੯॥

सुनत राव को बच स्रवन त्रिय मनि अधिक रिसाइ ॥ चोर चोर कहि कै उठी सिख्यन दियो जगाइ ॥५९॥

Esssence of understanding these stories is given at concluding part of Charitropakhayan after chaupai sahib where Guru ji writes

ਸੁਨੈ ਗੁੰਗ ਜੋ ਯਾਹਿ ਸੁ ਰਸਨਾ ਪਾਵਈ ॥ ਸੁਨੈ ਮੂੜ੍ਹ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਇ ਚਤੁਰਤਾ ਆਵਈ ॥

सुनै गुंग जो याहि सु रसना पावई ॥ सुनै मूड़्ह चित लाइ चतुरता आवई ॥

The dumb, who will listen to it, will be blessed with the tongue to speak; the fool, who will listen to it attentively, will get wisdom;

It is sheer ignorance to infer our own meanings when at end of every charitra it is written that story is being recited by a minister to his king.There are many other stories where name of towns come such as lahore,sialkot, bank of river Sutlej.It does not mean these are real incidents. If we understand the meaning of word pakhyan coupled with third person narration and setting of Charitras plot in Charitra 2 (which no one bothers to look at)we will not be making our own interpretations .

Lamba states that the Anoop Caeur Sakhi is originally from Rig Veda.

It seems you have spent a lot of time studying 'The Dasam Granth'. Many questions have thus come up, that you go on asking. I got some curiosity after reading your questions. I hope you will answer those time to time and satisfy the quest.

You mentioned that the poet Shyaam wrote the Bachittar Naatak. The beginning of Bachittar Naatak is this.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥

ੴ satigur prasaadi.

ਅਥ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਲਿਖਯਤੇ ॥

अथ बचित्र नाटक ग्रंथ लिखयते ॥

ath bachitra naatak granth likhyate.

ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

त्वप्रसादि ॥

twaprasaadi.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਬਾਕ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥

स्री मुखबाक पातशाही १०॥

sri mukhvaak paatshahi 10.

May I ask why the poet Shyaam did not write 'Mukhvaak poet Shyaam' in the beginning? Please explain this. I will be grateful.

Strange, you start imagining the end of DG. Why?

y

That is what Lamba says. Instead of being brainwashed by lamba, read CP yourself. I read it myself and know its reality and who it promotes. It starts with devi ustat. Lamba can lie all he wants. He is nothing more than a liar who only knows how to edit videos to fool Sikhs.

Also, who was minister and who was king? They sure weren't Sikhs. How does it become Gurbani then?

Story is a story. Not Gurbani.

You said these stories are existing. COuld you show me where the story about stealing turbans was taken from. COuld you tell me where story 15 was taken from? Also, show me mention of ramdaspur and kiratpur in the original story. You won't because kiratpur was established by Guru and so was Ramdaspur. Stop slandering Guru on name of stories.

Rai sure means king. Go read CP 21-23 and know where it talks about Guru. You havne't even read CP and are out here to try to convince me? Don't make a scene here. Did you know Guru Gobind Singh Ji's name before Gobind Singh was Gobind Raaye?

Regarding apasras and inder. I am not interested in them.

I write chariters too. They are just stories and sambaad between mantree and bhoop. Do you want a sample? I write leader chariters, not istree. Are you interested in reading Lamba chariter?

Stories between king and minister have nothing to do with Gurmat. A Sikh seeks Guru gyan. Not stories from third party mantrees and bhoops.

Like I said before, read CP 21-23 yourself or watch these youtube videos.

Dasam Granth Issue 1 a

Dasam Granth Issue 1 b

Dasam Granth Issue 2

Dasam Granth Issue 3

Dasam Granth Issue 4

Could lamba also show me Anoop Kuar in vedas?

Looks like he reads more vedas than Gurbani. No wonder he thinks DG is Gurbani.

He is blinded by maayaa in vedas so he can't tell difference between Gurmat and manmat.

Tell Lamba to get to Toronto and discuss. Making excuses online isn't Gurmat.

By admitting that it is conversation between mantree and bhoop, lamba admits it isn't GUrbani.

Gurbani comes from Guru or mantree and bhoop?

Mukhbaak Pt. 10 is written by anti-DG people to fool Sikhs. Not hard to write something in heading. Too bad they were fools to leave kab shyam, kab raam and kab kaal in the main writings. Would have been a problem if they had written kab nanak. Thank God for not making them too smart. Also, since you brought up CP. Add up its stanza numbers and see what you get. Even that is messed up. How much could one do to defend DG?

By the way, Natak was proven wrong based on history and Gurbani in the videos. How could you still defend it? So weird.

Even bible of Christians has more Gurmat than DG. Your God drinks? 4 arms? Bells? Anklets? Snakes?

x

Brahma vishnu, shiv and other dieties are mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib do you want to declare Guru Granth Sahib as against Gurmat aswell, just because you havent understood the context of the dieties doesnt mean we can go all for what semetics would declare as monotheism as your idea of Gurmat.

Edited December 8, 2009 by sarbatdapala

[Mr Sardar]

y

Have you read what Gurbani says about them? Gurbani says:

Brahmaa Bisan Mahadeo Traiguon Roagee

Wich Haumai Kaar Kmaaee

Gurbani says:

Devi Devaaa Mool Hai Mayaaa

Gurbani says:

Jugah Jugah Ke Raajay Keeayee Gaaveh Kar Avtaaree

These so called devi devtas were nothing more than kings.

I have understood DG more than its promoters. Don't think I don't understand because you got no clue.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is what teaches us Gurmat.

Why do you keep dragging me into pictures? Are you a fan of bhaniarawala? He loves to take and post pictures.

x

And just like Guru Granth Sahib Dasam Granth makes the same point

ਤੇ ਭੁਜ ਬਲ ਬਵਰੇ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗਏ ॥ ਪੂਜਤ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਰਹਿ ਗਏ ॥੬॥

Te bhuj bal bavre hvai gad|| Poojat Param Purakh raih gad||6||

Who became mad with power and abandoned the worship of Supreme Purusha.6.

ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥

Te ham tamak(i) tanak mo khaape|| Tin koo thaur devtaa thaape||

I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥

Te bhoo bal(i) poojaa urjhaae|| aapan hoo Parmesar kahaae||7||

They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7.

ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥

Mahaadev achutt kahnyo|| Bisan aap hoo ko thahiraayo||

Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥

Brahmaa aap Paarbrahm bakhaanaa|| Prabh ko Prabhoo na kinhoon jaanaa||8||

Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8.

y

You know what tamak means? Check out dictionary. Then tell me if that is according to Gurmat. Also, I asked you before too. Does God make mistakes that he later has to correct? Read the whole set and then send your message back. Why don't you read the whole thing? Please do that and send the message back. Do you have anything to say about those videos? Can you prove them wrong? No you can't. Then why do you still try to promote DG? Continue reading the above set of quotes and you get to the ramanand and mohammed part discussed in the video.

x

Your statements are likely a child saying 1 + 1 = 11. Its a fools statement why prove it wrong, there isnt a matter of fallacy in your statements it is just foolish. You have taken things and twisted them.

Why are you sitting infront of pictures of Baba Jarnail Singh? He spent most of his life teaching Dasam Granth to others.

y

Why are you sitting infront of pictures of Baba Jarnail Singh? He spent most of his life teaching Dasam Granth to others.

I am also sitting in front of Sukha and Jinda pictures. Doesn't mean I agree with what they did before in their life. E.g. cut hair, etc.

Same way, I don't agree with Jarnail Singh on DG.

I respect them for their political work and opposing opression and their shaheedis.

Becoming shaheed is one thing. Doing study on a subject is another. Simple as that.

////////Photo then posted/////////////////////

x

This is Harmanjit he came from a village from Doaba, goes to canada with a picture of a great sikh preacher in the back Sant Jarnail Singh, they start slandering the whole sikh faith, starting with Sri Dasam Granth, then amrit, then Sikh ardas, then sikh history, great Saints and Sikh scholars after kala afgana and prof darshan Singh

y

I request removal of above picture. Why are you out to defame me? We don't slander anyone. We also don't oppose Khanday kee Pahul or Ardass. Why do you make up lies to spread propaganda? You haven't got a clue about Gurmat but are out to spread hatred? What a scene.

x

you called the dasam granth a pornographic book

y

a spade is a spade

I called it what it is. You tell me if it is KK. Will you read it with family with sangat and do arths? If not, then don't accuse me of anything.

Either remove the derogatory comment or I will have to report this picture. Thanks.

Instead of doing propaganda here and spreading hatred, send your best scholars to talk in Toronto. Thanks.

x

The images have been blured

y

So? Doesn't give you the right to talk smack about me and make false allegations. Is that Gurmat paath or is that DG path? Framing, lying and cheating isn't Gurmat.

Edited December 9, 2009 by sarbatdapala

[singh2]

Sarbat da pala ji

He is a paid propagandist for doing propaganda against Dasam Granth. He lacks in good education as most of his arguments are silly. For example he does not understand what is meant by third person narration.

It is useless to argue with such a fool as he is here for propaganda and will not be convinced by logic.

He is a complete retard.

[Only five]

Take the theory that Brahmins wanted to place Sri Dasam Granth on us or the British or whoever this Harmanjit Singh Mann says. Then why in the world would they use the names Raam and Shyam. If it was put on us to distort Sikhi then they would have used NANAK. This way then they can say look it says Nanak it is the Guru of the Sikhs.

Using Raam or Shyam only takes away from their agenda to distort Sikhi. So in this sense the words Raam and Shyam have a deeper meaning which was already been explained by Sarbatdapala.

[singh2]

Take the theory that Brahmins wanted to place Sri Dasam Granth on us or the British or whoever this Harmanjit Singh Mann says. Then why in the world would they use the names Raam and Shyam. If it was put on us to distort Sikhi then they would have used NANAK. This way then they can say look it says Nanak it is the Guru of the Sikhs.

Using Raam or Shyam only takes away from their agenda to distort Sikhi. So in this sense the words Raam and Shyam have a deeper meaning which was already been explained by Sarbatdapala.

Ram and shyam are pen names of Guru gobind singh ji. In one of the charitras both names appear together thereby establishing it is one person.

This fool does not know that. Challenge him on that and he will not be able to answer.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Ram and shyam are pen names of Guru gobind singh ji. In one of the charitras both names appear together thereby establishing it is one person.

This fool does not know that. Challenge him on that and he will not be able to answer.

Come to live talk and we can do some sambaad between bhoop and mantree.

We will determine who was bhoop and who was mantree.

Before coming, you can read teva and consult a brahman's jantree.

If you like, you can even dress in santree.

Inder Singh, I keep forgetting you. I need to add you into leader chariter granth. I will do so now.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Another thing, there was no derogatory mark against black color. Host just brought up the point about Mahakal being black colored. He said he seems African or South Indian. That isn't racism or anything like that. It is just learning about Mahakal. Dalsingh, also, all I said was I don't know. I didn't say anything bad. What are you on about then? DOn't make a scene. Listen again. Inder Singh Ji, we have other Singhs here, they want to debate you on Dasam Granth. Will you debate them? I will stay out. There will be no jeonwala or me or anyone like that. Just singhs who don't even come online or make videos to put on youtube. What do you say?

[Bundha]

Here is a sobering thought, the following are some of the panths foremost Gursikhs (past and present) , all have the highest regard of Dasam Granth Bani and regard it as Gurbani.

Jathedars :

Bhai Gurbachan Singh – Akaal Takhat Sahib.

Bhai Balwant Singh – Takhat Damdama Sahib.

Bhai Tarlochan Singh – Tkhat Kesgahar Sahib.

Bhai Iqbal Singh – Takhat Patna Sahib.

Bhai Kulwant Singh – Takhat Hazoor Sahib

Gursikhs :

Baba Nand Singh Ji Nanaksar

Sant Ishar Singh Rara Sahib

Sant Jawala Singh Harkowal

Sant Sant Attar Singh Mastwana

Gurbachan Singh Bhindra

Sant Harnam Singh Rampur

Sant Ishar Singh Nanaksar

Sant Kartar Singh Bhindra

Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindra

Bhagat Pooran singh

Sant Poran Singh Karichow

Sant Jeevan Singh AKJ

Baba Takhur Singh Bhindra

Sant Jabjit Singh Harkowal

Sant Sarbjot Singh Bedhi

Sant Hari singh Randhawa

Baba Labh Singh Anandghar

Baba Sewa Singh Khadoor Sahib

Baba Kashmir Singh Booriwale

Baba Shisha Singh Nanded Sahib

Baba Balwinder Singh Nanded

Sant Ranjit Singh

Scholars :

Bhai Vir Singh

Akali Kaur Singh

Prof. Teja Singh

Bhai Randhir Singh

Sardar Kapoor Singh

Bhai Kaan Singh Nabha

Bhai Santokh Singh

Sant Singh Maskeen

Giani Pinderpal Singh

Akali :

Baba Keertan Singh Tarana Dal

Baba Prem Singh Buddha Dal

Baba Nihal Singh Harian Belan Tarana Dal

Baba Makahn Singh Tarana Dal

Baba Joginder Singh Buddha Dal

Baba Daya Singh Bidhi Chand Dal

Baba Avatar Singh Bidhi Chand Dal

Kirtanis :

Bhai Avatar Singh

Bhai Balbir Singh

Bhai Jasbir Singh Khannan

Bhai Amirk Singh Zakhmi

Bhai Harjinder Singh Sirinagar

Bhai Naranjan Singh Jwadi

Bhai Nirmal singh Darbar Sahib

Sant Anoop Singh

Bhai Gurdial Singh Rehsia

Panth dhay Shaheed :

Bhai Fauja Singh

Bhai Amrik Singh

Bhai Harjinder Singh Jinda

Bhai Sukhdev Singh

Bhai Avatar Singh Brahma

Bhai Sukhdev Singh Babbar

Bhai Gurbachan Singh Monchal

General Shubheg Singh

Bhai Kulwant Singh Nagokay

The following are the anti-Dasam Granth brigade:

Gurtej Singh , lost his voice, could not speak for nearly a year.

Harinder Mehboob contracted bone cancer.

Kala Afghna has gone mental, checked into a mental institution.

Baldev Singh died of brain tumour.

Darshan Singh ragi has been rendered an apostate by Akaal Takhat Sahib.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Bundha

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Some claim. They have understood 'The Dasam Granth'. There is no need to criticize the translations then. At least they may refrain from using foul words and thus avoid later clarifications.

In my view, fighting on translations is not going to give enlightenment.

In the fast growing media world, also sick preachers and Baabaas are getting exposed. Please give them a chance to explain. Why Sikhs are unhappy with their spiritual growth?

At the same time readers may contemplate. Is criticizing The Dasam Granth, the right way on a spiritual path?

Better seek Naam Simran and live in peace following the Sabad Guru.

Balbir Singh

Edited December 9, 2009 by Balbir Singh

[Mr Sardar]

y

I see that you have been taking my posts to www.sikhawareness.com. Haahahaha! You are relying on people like Inder Singh who refused to accept debate? He was saying how I don't use logic and stuff. I always use logic or Gurbani quote. What does he use? Nothing more than excuses. His biggest excuse: Shyam, Raam and Kaal are pen names. Biggest bull ever. No one will buy that excuse in the real world. Neither will those who have read GUru Granth Sahib Ji. He calls me a paid agent. He is the one himself. His name was the one that was floating around on the list of RSS along with his Lamba. He knows he can't prove anything, that is why him and his thug associates cry for my ban on websites. He won't even come online for a one on one debate because he knows he has no gyan. One time he asked what does Ramanand or Mohammed have to do with Sikhism. He would have known if he had read DG at that time. What a brainless dadoo he is. Just a couple of days ago, he refused to accept live talk in email. He knows he can't prove DG right because he knows it is wrong. Unfortunately, he has been assigned a task to promote that anti-Gurmat book.

x

We really finished this conversation a long time ago, just your going around in circles because you don't get the point, the charitarpakhain is not Guru Gobind Singh's own narration. Next your going to say we should stop sex education in schools because its pornographic, theres a way to teach the side effects of adultery and in this day and age it is required more.

The following are the anti-Dasam Granth brigade:

Gurtej Singh , lost his voice, could not speak for nearly a year.

Harinder Mehboob contracted bone cancer.

Kala Afghna has gone mental, checked into a mental institution.

Baldev Singh died of brain tumour.

Darshan Singh ragi has been rendered an apostate by Akaal Takhat Sahib.

If you sincerly feel Sri Dasam Granth is not gurbani I do you a favour by asking someone to put this convo up for me, as they will delete your nonsense.

*own 1st person narration, it is 3rd person narration

[singh2]

sarabt da pala

This man is a lying machine. He sends some stupid PMs to me asking to listen some bhangra songs etc. tell him if he does not believe in Dasam Granth then he need to take kirpan off, remove all kakkars.

Take a hair cut also. There is no khalsa without SDG.

One can get people dime a dozen. if you read soft target you will know how many people were on payroll of anti sikh forces for petty sum.

Edited December 10, 2009 by singh2

[Mr Sardar]

y

We are finished this talk because you and your crew are manmukhs and bemukhs from Guru Granth Sahib Ji. There is a huge difference between sex education and CP. CP isn't only sex talk. Did you know? It contains ideas on how to fool others. Regarding first person and third person, bring live talk and we will show you what is third person and who is first person. It isn't possible online because I don't time to write 2 pages explaining one thing. What about anti-DG brigade? Trying to speak bad about someone's health is really low life. Jo Upjeo So Binas Hai, Paro Aaj Ke Kaal. I am sure all kinds of people die due to various diseases. Cancer is really common these days. By the way, doctors discovering medications for these diseases are many times atheists or don't believe in organized religion. Does it mean what they do is right? What a lame and pathetic excuse to talk bad about someone. May God bless all with good health. Even pro-DG.

If Gurbani doesn't stop a person from doing bajjar kurehits, I don't know how CP will. Submit to Guru and have faith. All you people are doing is trying to belittle Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Shame on you people. Bring live talk and I will prove that CP isn't GUrbani is 2 minutes. You lame moral or sex education excuses will be exposed too. I have been sending inder some emails about moral lessons. He hasn't replied because he knows CP is wrong. Vecharay nu fund milday CP promote karan laee or he is dumb enough to do it for free. I do service to Guru. Not to some group made by man or RSS.

Why don't you people admit that you don't have answers according to Gurbani?

Who is Inder Singh to tell me to cut hair? Shows his true character. He wants people to become monas or accept CP and do taij ustara stuff like it says in CP. Either way, he wants people to become anti-religion and cut hairs and do bajjar kurehits.

Inder talks DG bla bla bla, did he drink liqor and cannabis to become Sikh of Mahakal like DG says? Don't give me mantree bhoop sambaad crap. Mantree bhoop in ending of story doesn't give you right to talk crap.

[Parchand]

reciting Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji will only help erase the boundaries, knock down the walls of illusion, re-energise your conscience, blow your mind and open the door for the soul.

this Bani is not for everyone - in the same way a nuclear reactor may be very powerful in the hands of a scientist, but to others it will remain just a shiny block of metal.

those who allow their minds to misread, misquote, misunderstand, misabsorb or misuse this Bani are no different to those who seek the nuclear bomb.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Parchand

[singh2]

Srabat da pala ji

let this fake know that we will conduct an International seminar on Dasam granth sahib in Toronto in due course of time. Tell him to bring his gang of jackals there.

[Mr Sardar]

y is Harmanjit Mann (akali) also The Khalsa Fauj on sikhawarness, The canadian sangat really needs a Sri Dasam Granth seminar alot of the anti movement is rooted in Canada at present moment. Kala afgana, Darshan Singh and mann are all in Canada really why is there propogation of such idea there?

[The Khalsa Fauj]

y is Harmanjit Mann (akali) also The Khalsa Fauj on sikhawarness, The canadian sangat really needs a Sri Dasam Granth seminar alot of the anti movement is rooted in Canada at present moment. Kala afgana, Darshan Singh and mann are all in Canada really why is there propogation of such idea there?

Make the seminar open and make sure questions can be asked live. Not on a paper. It would be best to hold discussion with anti-DG people.

[Mithar]

Make the seminar open and make sure questions can be asked live. Not on a paper. It would be best to hold discussion with anti-DG people.

Khalsa Fauj, are you the man wearing the black dastar in those Dasam Granth youtube videos?

in this one:

Edited December 11, 2009 by Mithar

[DTF]

Khalsa Fauj, are you the man wearing the black dastar in those Dasam Granth youtube videos?

in this one:

Ironically, the host and Harmanjit sit in front giant posters of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and Bhai Sukhdev Singh BHai Harjinder Singh. The very personalities they adorn their walls with would have given them a sound thrashing for opposing Dasam Patshah's Bani. I guess the Panth didn't have any learned Gursikhs for the past 300 years and only now these mahaan vidhvaans have shown us the truth of Dasam Granth.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Ironically, the host and Harmanjit sit in front giant posters of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and Bhai Sukhdev Singh BHai Harjinder Singh. The very personalities they adorn their walls with would have given them a sound thrashing for opposing Dasam Patshah's Bani. I guess the Panth didn't have any learned Gursikhs for the past 300 years and only now these mahaan vidhvaans have shown us the truth of Dasam Granth.

How do you know that sukha and jinda were pro DG? How do you know that Bhai Jarnail Singh Ji would still be pro DG today? Lets not assume things and learn from Gurbani. My dad was pro DG until some years back. You learn with time and age. It is all about Guru's blessings. When Guru showers more Gurmat gyan, person learns more.

[Parchand]

Ironically, the host and Harmanjit sit in front giant posters of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and Bhai Sukhdev Singh BHai Harjinder Singh. The very personalities they adorn their walls with would have given them a sound thrashing for opposing Dasam Patshah's Bani. I guess the Panth didn't have any learned Gursikhs for the past 300 years and only now these mahaan vidhvaans have shown us the truth of Dasam Granth.

lol true