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I am not aware of it, nor is something written 2 years back more important than things written in 1700s.

Now say; Is Bachittar Natak right or Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Written two years back does not invalidate anything.He has simply consolidated his research from past archives and reproduced it.

You claim to be well read in sikh history yet you do not know rehtanamas, bhat vahis and literaure of that time.Yet you come here and utter nonsense.

What type of history you have read? or read at all?

Since you only beleive in SGGS ji it is possible you do not consider rehatnamas and sikh history as part of sikh ethos.

Edited by singh2
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Gupt Singh, you aren't asking any questions that haven't already been asked and answered on this forum. Use the search function. Every few months a new member appears and reiterates stuff. Anyhow...

Give sources.

"Sri Gur Katha" - Bhai Jaita Ji, pre 1708. The same Bhai Jaita who brought Guru Tegh Bahadur ji's head from Delhi.

Waheguru creates and destroys everything.

......Raam in Bani is used for God. If you name your son Waheguru, it doesn't make him Waheguru. Same way Raam Chander was named after lord Raam, doesn't make him Raam.

Why can't you apply the same logic to Mahakal. Or even look at the literal meaning of the word. As you said above, Waheguru destroys everything.

If you think you know it all, then you are already lost. If you have an open mind and are willing to learn for yourself, then study the languages Guru Ji used, study the Granth and make up your own mind instead of acting as the mouthpiece for heretical self-appointed scholars.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Matheen ji

These people are dumb and hence unable to understand the meaning of mahakal.

God is formless and has no name. But he has been given functional names both in

SGGs ji and dasam Granth.

Guru ji makes it amply clear when he writes in dasam granth that it is God who is known as kal.

ਕਾਲ ਤੁਹੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੇਗ ਅਰੁ ਤੀਰ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕੀ ਆਜੁ ਤੁਹੀ ਜਗਬੀਰ ॥੫॥

काल तुही काली तुही तुही तेग अरु तीर ॥ तुही निशानी जीत की आजु तुही जगबीर ॥५॥

Thou art the KAL (death), thou art the goddess Kali, Thou art the saber and arrow, Thou art the sign of victory today and Thou art the Hero of the world.5.

Dasam Granth sahib

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Do simran of God. Ghagga was wrong on his title. He admited his mistake and changed the contents in his book. Check it out online..

GuptSingh is from Europe. Don't make a scene here Inder.

I don't have 20 different locations where I can get internet at.I got only my own IP. Read Guru Granth Sahib Ji with arths to understand what is naam.

Medni is just a word used for earth. It has nothing to do with the mythical story linked to it. Why do you people want to drag Sikh faith into false stories? Do arths of Gurbani according to Gurmat, not by putting on goggles of stories told by Pandits or Brahmanis and kesadhari Brahmans.

Inder, you mentioned Bhatt Vahis. Bhatt Vahis also say that Guru Gobind Rai (Singh) Ji was born in 1662. Do you agree? It also says Sahibzada Ajit Singh married some lady and had a child. Do you agree? You love to hate on Dilgeer but he said some things, which you don't like, based on bhatt vahis.

If these were the banis that were read, why do all rehatnamas and granth say different? Are you aware of that?

We consider literature to be literature and Gurbani to be Gurbani. We don't try to turn literature into Gurbani to make it as authentic as Gurbani.

Inder, you call others dumb but you haven't been able to show me the word Mahakaal being used for GOD in Gurbani. Please show me where it is used for God in Gurbani.

Understand who mahakaal is in DG and then understand who God is in Gurbani. You will know the difference.

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Well read in Sikh history? You don't know me so don't pass personal comments on me.

Bhatt Vahis, give me exact quotes of them. And name me which Rehatnamas you are talking of.

Get me that article. By whom is it?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Read Sakhi number 59 of Gur Kiyaan Sakhiyaan (Bhat Vahis). This is probably the most authentic history written of our Gurus form the puraatan sources. You need to read up on history from puraatan primary sources rather than from Kala Afghanist sources. I myself a few years ago also began having doubts on Dasam Granth. Then I read Giani Harbans Singh's book on Dasam granth Banis which eventually convinced me that Dasam Granth is the bani of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. You need read and study Dasam Granth in proper context. Kala Afghanists know nothing. All they do is a 2 year correspondence course from Sikh missionary college and they think they are Gianis.

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Written two years back does not invalidate anything.He has simply consolidated his research from past archives and reproduced it.

You claim to be well read in sikh history yet you do not know rehtanamas, bhat vahis and literaure of that time.Yet you come here and utter nonsense.

What type of history you have read? or read at all?

Since you only beleive in SGGS ji it is possible you do not consider rehatnamas and sikh history as part of sikh ethos.

You are a big time joke. I ask you to give me their names. I know of their existence. I don't believe in Rehatnamas that contradict GurBani (kachehra came from Hanuman, etc). Since you are such a staunch believer of Bhatt Vahis, do you agree that Guru Gobind Singh had a grandson named Hathi Singh (son of Sahibzada Ajit Singh)? If you don't then same logic can be applied (from my part) on the 'banis recited during Amrit Sanchaar 1699'.

Gupt Singh, you aren't asking any questions that haven't already been asked and answered on this forum. Use the search function. Every few months a new member appears and reiterates stuff. Anyhow...

"Sri Gur Katha" - Bhai Jaita Ji, pre 1708. The same Bhai Jaita who brought Guru Tegh Bahadur ji's head from Delhi.

Why can't you apply the same logic to Mahakal. Or even look at the literal meaning of the word. As you said above, Waheguru destroys everything.

If you think you know it all, then you are already lost. If you have an open mind and are willing to learn for yourself, then study the languages Guru Ji used, study the Granth and make up your own mind instead of acting as the mouthpiece for heretical self-appointed scholars.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sri Gur Katha was discovered only recently. Any research has been conducted upon its authenticity? NO, so don't talk about that document to me. There is much chance that you never ever have seen it yourself, but your talking of it because of some posts of Bijla Singh.

Same logic WILL BE APPLIED on Mahakaal, once you show me ATLEAST 1 PLACE IN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI that uses MAHAKAAL for Waheguru.

I have an open mind, that why I am anti DG. I am not the mouthpiece of anyone.

Matheen ji

These people are dumb and hence unable to understand the meaning of mahakal.

God is formless and has no name. But he has been given functional names both in

SGGs ji and dasam Granth.

Guru ji makes it amply clear when he writes in dasam granth that it is God who is known as kal.

ਕਾਲ ਤੁਹੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੇਗ ਅਰੁ ਤੀਰ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕੀ ਆਜੁ ਤੁਹੀ ਜਗਬੀਰ ॥੫॥

काल तुही काली तुही तुही तेग अरु तीर ॥ तुही निशानी जीत की आजु तुही जगबीर ॥५॥

Thou art the KAL (death), thou art the goddess Kali, Thou art the saber and arrow, Thou art the sign of victory today and Thou art the Hero of the world.5.

Dasam Granth sahib

Lakhwinder; "Fareeda Je Tun Akal Lateef, Tan Kaley Lekh Na Lekh, Apnarey Girehvaan Mein Sir Nivan Kar Dekh"... But you only remember "ਕੈ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਾਟਿ ਕਰੈ ਸਤ ਖੰਡਾ। ਕੈ ਦੈ ਮੋਰਿ ਭਗ ਬਿਖੈ ਲੰਡਾ। - Either I will cut you into seven pieces or place your penis (lundaa) into my vagina (bhug) - Chariter 312, Dasam Granth)

And this is what your Mahakaal looks like;

ਚਮਕਹਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੰ। ਅਭੂਤੰ ਭਯਾਣੰ। ਧੁਣੰ ਨੇਵਰਾਯੰ। ਘੁਰੰ ਘੁੰਘ੍ਰਯਾਣੰ। ੩੧। ਚਤੁਰ ਬਾਹ ਚਾਰੰ। ਨਿਜੂਟੰ ਸੁਧਾਰੰ। ਗਦਾ ਪਾਸ ਸੋਹੰ। ਜਮੰ ਮਾਨ ਮੋਹੰ। ੩੨। ਸੁਭੰ ਜੀਭ ਜੁਆਲੰ। ਸੁ ਦਾੜਾ ਕਰਾਲੰ। ਬਜੀ ਬੰਬ ਸੰਖੰ। ਉਠੇ ਨਾਦੰ ਬੰਖੰ। ੩੩। ਸੁਭੰ ਰੂਪ ਸਿਆਮੰ। ਮਹਾ ਸੋਭ ਧਾਮੰ। ਛਬੇ ਚਾਰੁ ਚਿੰਤ੍ਰੰ। ਪਰੇਅੰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੰ। ੩੪।

He has four beautiful arms. The hair is tied in a knot on head. The mace which he has is astonishing. It intrigues the hearts of messengers of death. 32. His tongue is red; resembling fire from a volcano. His grinding teeth are scary. Drums and conches are sounding. They produce a whistling sound similar to the high tide waves in oceans. 33. His dark face looks befitting. It is the house of honorable. His look is beautiful. It is purer than it can be imagined. 34.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Edited by GuptSingh1699
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Read Sakhi number 59 of Gur Kiyaan Sakhiyaan (Bhat Vahis). This is probably the most authentic history written of our Gurus form the puraatan sources. You need to read up on history from puraatan primary sources rather than from Kala Afghanist sources. I myself a few years ago also began having doubts on Dasam Granth. Then I read Giani Harbans Singh's book on Dasam granth Banis which eventually convinced me that Dasam Granth is the bani of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. You need read and study Dasam Granth in proper context. Kala Afghanists know nothing. All they do is a 2 year correspondence course from Sikh missionary college and they think they are Gianis.

If Bhatt Vahis are authentic then you believe that Sahibzada Ajit Singh had a son?

Gur Kian Sakhian was written in 1790, 91 years after Amrit Sanchar. Tell me what other sources between those 91 years tell about the Bani's recited during the Amrit Sanchar? I can also take Bansawalinama, and say that the author's family were Diwans in Guru Ji's court and thus his account of Japji Sahib and Anand Sahib being read during Amrit Sanchar is correct. But I do not make such foolish statements.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Inder:

Devi ustat karee chal. Teri marjee.

Gurbani says though:

Devi Devaa Mool Hai Maayaa

I read Harbans Singh's book. If he were alive, I would have given him live talk option. Too bad he is dead now.

Mithar, instead of relying on Harbans Singh. Rely on own intellect. Think about contents of DG. Understand them and test them on Gurmat principles.

Missionary course varies from 2 years to 6-8 years I think. It isn't only two years. At least they don't give brahmgyani degree in 4 years.

Other than that, we will expose more bhatt vahis later.

Regarding sri gur katha granth, give us original document and we will analyze it. We will test its contents based on GUrmat.

From what I have read, it says only wear 4 colors which is obviously anti-Gurmat. All colors are parvaan in Gurmat. All colors are made by God.

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Guptsingh, I suggest you take a course in poetry or literature which will help you interpret Guru Sahib's writings.

Sri Gur Katha is not a newly discovered text. However, in addition to it are the traditions of traditional sampardas such as the Nihangs etc who have been following the same routine at Amrit Sanchars since 1699. ALL traditional sampardas read and have always read 5 BAnis during Amrit Sanchar. They developed in different parts of India yet the Maryada is vrtually the same.

The oral traditions passed down over the generations (only a few in 300 years) also back this up.

Can you show me a written reference to Guru Ji giving authority to the panth to change this? Why would they change it anyway - the power comes from the BAnis that are read? If you are in the UK, there is going to be a Dasam Bani Darbar to celebrate the parkash divas of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, you are welcome to bring any questions or if you feel so strongly about it, to try and stop the parkash of Sri Dasam Granth on that day. See the poster put up by 'Shaheediyan' earlier today for details.

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GuptSingh,

Mata Sundar Kaur Ji adopted a son and called him Ajit Singh, to remind her of Shaheed Baba Ajit Singh Ji.

This adopted Ajit Singh had a son named Hathi Singh.

Adopted son Ajit Singh died a bemukh for turning his back on MataJi, cutting his kesh, and declaring himself the Guru.

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GuptSingh,

Mata Sundar Kaur Ji adopted a son and called him Ajit Singh, to remind her of Shaheed Baba Ajit Singh Ji.

This adopted Ajit Singh had a son named Hathi Singh.

Adopted son Ajit Singh died a bemukh for turning his back on MataJi, cutting his kesh, and declaring himself the Guru.

I know there was an adopted son called Ajit Singh Paalit. But Bhatt Vahis said SAHIBZADA Ajit Singh had a son. Ajit Singh Palit was never a Sahibzada. Only 4 sons of Guru Ji were Sahibzada's. Other adopted sons like Zorawar Singh Palit (martyred in battle) and Ajit Singh Palit weren't Sahibzadas.

Guptsingh, I suggest you take a course in poetry or literature which will help you interpret Guru Sahib's writings.

Sri Gur Katha is not a newly discovered text. However, in addition to it are the traditions of traditional sampardas such as the Nihangs etc who have been following the same routine at Amrit Sanchars since 1699. ALL traditional sampardas read and have always read 5 BAnis during Amrit Sanchar. They developed in different parts of India yet the Maryada is vrtually the same.

The oral traditions passed down over the generations (only a few in 300 years) also back this up.

Can you show me a written reference to Guru Ji giving authority to the panth to change this? Why would they change it anyway - the power comes from the BAnis that are read? If you are in the UK, there is going to be a Dasam Bani Darbar to celebrate the parkash divas of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, you are welcome to bring any questions or if you feel so strongly about it, to try and stop the parkash of Sri Dasam Granth on that day. See the poster put up by 'Shaheediyan' earlier today for details.

I don't want to take a course in poetry or literature to understand Poet Ram and Shyam's poetry.

When was Sri Gur Katha discovered then? Traditional sampardas such as Nihangs also drink Mahakaal drink (cannabis) and their oral traditions are not very reliable. How do you know they have been following same routine since 1699?

Yes, DO read 5 Banis in Amrit Sanchaar, but don't include Dasam Granth compositions. Read 5 Bani's from Guru Granth Sahib.

Oral tradition are not academically accepted in a debate.

Panth is Guru. 5 Singhs ordered Guru Ji to get out of Chamkaur Garhi, and Guru Ji obeyed that. As long as Panthic decisions are on line of Gurmat they are equal to Hukams of Guru Ji.

I am not based in UK, and I am lucky that I'm not living in a country full of DG worshippers. When time comes we will remove DG from Gurdwaras all over the world, just like we removed the idols some decades back !

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Edited by GuptSingh1699
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Yes, DO read 5 Banis in Amrit Sanchaar, but don't include Dasam Granth compositions. Read 5 Bani's from Guru Granth Sahib.

Oral tradition are not academically accepted in a debate

Panth is Guru.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

What about all the other puratan sampardas? What are your academic qualifications to state that oral tradition is not acceptable in a debate? In some cultures, they have only oral sources. If groups in different areas, but originating from the same source, all preach the same thing then it points to the validity of the claim. There are groups of Sikhs who left India in the 1800s and settled in parts of Africa etc and they follow the same.

Who is the panth? The majority of our community drink and cut their kesh. If they used the power of numbers to come to power and declare themselves the panth and say it is ok to cut kesh and there is no need for Amrit, then is that a decision by 'Guru Panth'?

No Sikh who loves his Guru would even think of challanging his hukam.

By the way, what is your reference that shows Panth has the same status as Guru? So you're saying you have two Gurus - Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the Panth?

In Dasam Bani, Guru Ji has given maan to his Sikhs, especially 5 Singhs, but they must be true Singhs. In th elast 300 years, we have true Mahapurkhs ( wouldn't be much of a religion if following it didn't lead to higher avasthas)and scholars and none have ever said anything against Dasam Bani. Now we get fools who haven't studied the languages used in Gurbani or how to interpret them and they have the nerve to challange Guru Sahib's institutions.

Where do you live, we'll come do a Dasam Darbar program there as well? Then you can come stop us. Better still, next time you're in India, visit a Nihang Chaunni or HAzur Sahib and tell them what they should be doing. B)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Edited by Matheen
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What about all the other puratan sampardas? What are your academic qualifications to state that oral tradition is not acceptable in a debate? In some cultures, they have only oral sources. If groups in different areas, but originating from the same source, all preach the same thing then it points to the validity of the claim. There are groups of Sikhs who left India in the 1800s and settled in parts of Africa etc and they follow the same.

Who is the panth? The majority of our community drink and cut their kesh. If they used the power of numbers to come to power and declare themselves the panth and say it is ok to cut kesh and there is no need for Amrit, then is that a decision by 'Guru Panth'?

No Sikh who loves his Guru would even think of challanging his hukam.

By the way, what is your reference that shows Panth has the same status as Guru? So you're saying you have two Gurus - Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the Panth?

In Dasam Bani, Guru Ji has given maan to his Sikhs, especially 5 Singhs, but they must be true Singhs. In th elast 300 years, we have true Mahapurkhs ( wouldn't be much of a religion if following it didn't lead to higher avasthas)and scholars and none have ever said anything against Dasam Bani. Now we get fools who haven't studied the languages used in Gurbani or how to interpret them and they have the nerve to challange Guru Sahib's institutions.

Where do you live, we'll come do a Dasam Darbar program there as well? Then you can come stop us. Better still, next time you're in India, visit a Nihang Chaunni or HAzur Sahib and tell them what they should be doing. B)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Oral sources say a lot of stuff. Give me Puratan WRITTEN sources. I don't care about other cultures, for me only thing that matters is Sikhi and Sikh Itihas. Group of Sikhs in Africa doing same since 1900s? Which country, city and give their Gurdwara(s) address.

You make no sense. Community is not equal to Panth. I think you are talking about the Punjabi community rather than Sikh Panth.

Yes. Guru's hukam is IKA BANI IK GUR IKO SHABAD VEECHAR. SHABAD GURU SURAT DHUN CHELA. BANI GURU GURU HAI BANI. ~~ You do not seem to follow that.

Aren't the 5 Pyaras form of Guru?

Mahapurkhs? Some of your MahaPurkhs were pro Raagmala some were Anti. Many other differences. Who was right? "MahaPurkhs" aren't my Guru, Guru is Guru Granth Sahib. DG contradicting Guru Granth Sahib can NOT be 10th Nanak's writings.

Yes next time and I get oppertunity, I'll surely meet Nihangs. No need to do here. You won't get many DG Chelas.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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I am deeply disturbed with this debate, there is nothing wrong in debating but I just wonder that we have given priority to something which can not be resolved in the current climate.

already 25 years to delhi massacre no one punished but who cares....we can not afford to fight amongst each other when we are being attacked from outside..

In my opinion prof darshan singh started this topic just like another topic and it has gone out of hands now. why I say that because I have been influenced by his katha before. I once attended diwan at shepherds bush gurdwara where the topic was kachi bani , i couldnt have agreed more. I was reading anand sahib but ignoring that some pracharaks will come and do kirtan by mixing gurbani and poems. Like i said i was influenced by what he said, than he also had a discussion with baba ranjit singh on radio. Recently i again heard him at southfields gurdwara and asked him that why does he keep raising new topics but

Now the kachi bani or other issues he has raised before still remain unresolved and a new issue where people have strong belief has been raised.since he was a akal takth jathedar people will give his views importance. Lot of people would have identified with lot of things he said before. But it is hard to understand the motives this time.The rochester katha was certainly pick and mix.

Everyone has taken a position pro or anti but is it black and white. Again we need to go back to basics of sikhi and have faith in our Guru , we are afraid of something what i dont know .but this fear is forcing us to take such hardline.

In india sikhs are still classified as hindus, indian court doesnt consider sikhs as a minority in punjab, 84 riots no justice *25yrs etc.. and our energy is going where, please get priority right.

than again when it comes to respecting guru granth sahib we could do one thing initially

1) Establish a group under akal takht which approves all the gurbani cd's so as to make sure it doesnt use bollywood tunes and is in nirdharit rags.

2) make sure that kirtan and paath dont occur same time .( this is always a distraction)

In addition we should Create world class technical , research and medical institutes outside punjab in india so that sikhs can avoid the caste based indian reservation system.

Revisit sikh history and engage in welfare programs not just for sikhs but all those who need help.

as far as dasam granth is concerned it will be going too far if we allow it to be called dasam sri guru granth sahib , i mean this is certainly an extreme case and such a mention should be avoided.

We are giving an oppurtunity to people to exploit us. remember it is hard to follow gurbani although everyone claims to do that, but the guru talks to us if we go with a pure heart.

all this strugle that sikhs are going thru today , I hope Guruji have something in mind that is why he is preparing us. you never know when guru asks for heads again that time it will be hard for us to hide behind personalities. Let us improve our lives , read gurbani do nitnem if we dont want to go beyond that than atlest this much.

Guru sahib has a plan for each life and he is guiding us towards him , we need to understand that.I have firm belief sikhi is not so weak that it can be divided. Believe in guru not xyz ,it doesnt matter how intelligent that person is , believe in guru , only than you will never be misled.

waheguru

Edited by gursj
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Oral sources say a lot of stuff. Give me Puratan WRITTEN sources.

Given our history, it is inevitable that a large part of our traditions were preserved through oral means.

Group of Sikhs in Africa doing same since 1900s? Which country, city and give their Gurdwara(s) address.

Since 1800s. Visit remote towns in East Africa e.g. Kitale, Morogoro etc and you'll come across them - they follow the traditions passed down through generations, which of course includes 5 Banis as we know them.

You make no sense. Community is not equal to Panth. I think you are talking about the Punjabi community rather than Sikh Panth.

Yes. Guru's hukam is IKA BANI IK GUR IKO SHABAD VEECHAR. SHABAD GURU SURAT DHUN CHELA. BANI GURU GURU HAI BANI. ~~ .

My point exactly. Nobody has ever questioned the fact that our Gurgaddi was given to Guru Granth Sahib ji. The panth celebrated the 300th anniversary of the event at Hazur Sahib, where they do parkash of Dasam Granth as well.

Aren't the 5 Pyaras form of Guru?

Yes they are (provided they are real Sikhs and not just 5 random people), and don't they read Dasam Bani to make water Amrit? However, where is it written that 5 Pyare are a form of Guru?

Mahapurkhs? Some of your MahaPurkhs were pro Raagmala some were Anti. Many other differences. Who was right? "MahaPurkhs" aren't my Guru, Guru is Guru Granth Sahib. DG contradicting Guru Granth Sahib can NOT be 10th Nanak's writings.

NO Mahapurkh has said anything against Ragmala, ever. Dasam Granth doesn't contradict anything in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. That's the beauty of it all - it's all in your interpretation of Guru Sahib's poetry in both Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasam Granth.

Poetry is like music, you can't take everything literally or you would find contradictions in Guru Sahib as well.

Change yourself to follow Gurbani, don't try to change Gurbani to fit your preconceived ideas of you think Gurbani should say.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Gupt

You wrote that you do not believe 200 percent in Dasam Granth. Then what are you debating for.

sangat ji,

this is heretic out here for propaganda. He does not believe in Dg and i think there is no need

to make him to believe that.

It is for admin to decide whether they want to give him free hand to indulge in propaganda.

They need to keep in mind that there are young sikhs who visit this forum and the purpose of such propagandists

is to create confusion among vulnerable.

Edited by singh2
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If we are going to read translations of markandeya puran as GUrbani, we will be labelled Hindus without a doubt. If we accept these translatiosn as Gurbani, we have no reason to oppose Hindus saying we are an offshoot of Hinduism or a sect of Hinduism. Amee raulee paon daa kee faidaa? Recently, Ashutosh gave challenge again. He said he doesn't call SIkhs anything. He said I am not the one saying Sikhs are children of Luv Kush. He said it was Giani Pooran SIngh and Dasam Granth. Do I need to say more?

Question to INder:

Is ashutosh a pakka Gursikh since he believes in your beloved poet Shyam's Dasam Granth which was originally Bachitter Natak Granth?

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If we are going to read translations of markandeya puran as GUrbani, we will be labelled Hindus without a doubt. If we accept these translatiosn as Gurbani, we have no reason to oppose Hindus saying we are an offshoot of Hinduism or a sect of Hinduism. Amee raulee paon daa kee faidaa? Recently, Ashutosh gave challenge again. He said he doesn't call SIkhs anything. He said I am not the one saying Sikhs are children of Luv Kush. He said it was Giani Pooran SIngh and Dasam Granth. Do I need to say more?

Question to INder:

Is ashutosh a pakka Gursikh since he believes in your beloved poet Shyam's Dasam Granth which was originally Bachitter Natak Granth?

It is not translation.It is adaptation.

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