Is It Acceptable Or Am I Being Crap?

[dalsingh101]

Recently I downloaded the nitnem banis from youtube and turned them into mp3s. I'm just getting into it but I sometimes listen to nitnem prayers (through headphones) whilst doing other stuff. For example, listening to Rehras whilst washing punday, or cooking (a hobby) at sunset for example.

Is this acceptable of just plain being slack? Should one only focus on the prayers and nothing else?

Edited December 12, 2009 by dalsingh101

[Laadli Fauj]

if you're actively listening or reciting with the recording, then i think it's ok. but if you dont even remember what paath u did, waht bani you're on, or having done paath at all, then its definitely not good

i often listen to nitnem recordings in the morning whil i'm getting ready for school, but i a make it a point to recite out loud with it

in the budda dal rehit maryada as published in the khalsa sundar gutka, and i believe in other rehit maryadas as well, about nitnem it says "parhe yaa sunhe". so yeah, just make sure you're actually sunh-ing it

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

What matters is quality of attention. To illustrate with an analogy, when speaking to a woman you are trying to chat up or impress, if you talk half to her and stare half into space ignoring her she will not be flattered. To flatter her you must give her full attention. To give full attention to another person and hang on their every word makes the other person feel good and valued. If reading Gurbani with half attention you are not courting with Gurbani correctly and are insulting Gurbani. Its like someone giving you a gift and you turn your head to the side paying little attention to the giver and just mumble 'thanks'. Its like my old science teacher used to say 'people think knowledge is going to get into their head by osmosis' If you are going to cook then cook focus on one thing, don;t be a prostitute and divide your surti among different things of the world.

[dalsingh101]

That focusing thing is really hard. On some days it seems easier than others. I guess it is a matter of practice. Reading probably helps over listening.

I just pray for some nadar to move me in the right direction.

One thing I have noticed though is that Dasam Amrit bani has a different rhythm/feel to that from the Guru Granth Sahib. Has anyone else noticed this? Is there any significance to the difference. Comparing Jaap Sahib to Japji Sahib sort of demonstrates this well. The former seems more....bouncey?

[Mithar]

I think that one should only do this if you have absolutely no time. Otherwise, take the time to open the Gutka and do the nitnem yourself. When I was a kid I remember a Giani once telling me that:

"Vaheguru gave 24 hours a day with which we spend having fun with family and friends, can we not even spare 1 or 2 hours a day to Vaheguru who was so generous us? Are we that ungrateful to him?"

[dalsingh101]

You are right Mithar.

Where can I get a gutka these days? Sikh Missionary Centre in Southall? How much am I looking at? (times are hard....lol)

Plus, what is rehas sampooran? What does sampooran imply?

[Matheen]

You are right Mithar.

Where can I get a gutka these days? Sikh Missionary Centre in Southall?

There is usually a stall at Havelock Rd Gurudwara on Sundays. Ask for a Taksali Sunder Gutka. Sikh Missionary may have some as well. Only cost a couple of pounds.

[dalsingh101]

Taksali Sunder Gutka

Is that Damdami Taksal? Is the gutka different to others in anyway?

[Matheen]

Is that Damdami Taksal? Is the gutka different to others in anyway?

Usually fewer mistakes and nice printing. The printers always manage to mess up here and there, but less than the SGPC Gutkey. Plus, the Banis are sampooran - complete Chaupai Sahib etc.

[dalsingh101]

Can anyone go into the meaning of sampooran, does this mean some people may be reciting incomplete banis?

[Matheen]

Can anyone go into the meaning of sampooran, does this mean some people may be reciting incomplete banis?

The SGPC decided to shorten the Chaupai Sahib and Rehras Sahib. Nihangs, Nanaksar and Hazur Sahib read even longer versions of Rehras Sahib than the other traditional Sampardas, who all read the same as the Taksali version, which is also found in a Gutka Sahib that belonged to Baba Deep Singh Ji.

More info about the history behind the shortened Chaupai Sahib (they blame the British, but it was the SGPC really): http://www.chaupaisahib.com/

[Mithar]

Usually fewer mistakes and nice printing. The printers always manage to mess up here and there, but less than the SGPC Gutkey. Plus, the Banis are sampooran - complete Chaupai Sahib etc.

I read the Hazuri Rehras Sahib which also read by Nanaksar and is longer than the Sampradhayak (DDT) one. For me that is Sampooran. At the sametime I don't think the other Rehras Sahib read by other traditions (DDT, AKJ, Nihang, SGPC etc) can be considered incomplete or Aadhoori. They are all Sampooran in my opinion.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Mithar

[Mithar]

The SGPC decided to shorten the Chaupai Sahib and Rehras Sahib. Nihangs, Nanaksar and Hazur Sahib read even longer versions of Rehras Sahib than the other traditional Sampardas, who all read the same as the Taksali version, which is also found in a Gutka Sahib that belonged to Baba Deep Singh Ji.

More info about the history behind the shortened Chaupai Sahib (they blame the British, but it was the SGPC really): http://www.chaupaisahib.com/

Personally I read the Sampradayak Choupi and read the Hazuri Rehras Sahib. But I don't really think that the SGPC Choupi or Rehras Sahib can be considered shortened or incomplete. Before the standardised SGPC version, there were many different Rehras Sahibs being read by the Panth. The present Samradayak one was just one of many. The Nihang and Hazuri ones are longer. Many in the Panth even just read the Rehras Sahib in the SGGSJ as they beleived this to be the original one. What the SGPC did was to take the middle ground and try to make everyone happy. For this they made it mandatory to read Choupi, Svaiya-Dohra, 6 Poudis of Anand Sahib and ending it with Mundavni.

Rehras Sahibs change over time. I think originally Rehras Sahib was only the one that we find in SGGSJ. But since Sikhs like to read as much banis as possible, they began adding shabads and other banis. Slowly over time, these became a permanent traditions.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Mithar

[Xylitol]

you can download ddt gutka with english translation here http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=11774&st=0&p=103966&hl=sampooran%20gutka%20sahib&fromsearch=1&#entry103966

you can also find the same banis on youtube which play the bbani and show the accompanying Gurmukhi and translation at the same time.

[chatanga1]

What matters is quality of attention. To illustrate with an analogy, when speaking to a woman you are trying to chat up or impress, if you talk half to her and stare half into space ignoring her she will not be flattered. To flatter her you must give her full attention. To give full attention to another person and hang on their every word makes the other person feel good and valued. If reading Gurbani with half attention you are not courting with Gurbani correctly and are insulting Gurbani. Its like someone giving you a gift and you turn your head to the side paying little attention to the giver and just mumble 'thanks'. Its like my old science teacher used to say 'people think knowledge is going to get into their head by osmosis' If you are going to cook then cook focus on one thing, don;t be a prostitute and divide your surti among different things of the world.

not the kind of analogy you could give in a gurdwara etc is it?

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

Remember Rsi Valmiki who was a bandit and killer, could not say Rama but had to say Mara, you have to speak on the 'level' to get through sometimes. Also the biggest Kanjars have the biggest potential, like the story of Bhagat Naamdev who wanted to 'do' his wife so much he mistook a snake for a rope and among other things.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Remember Rsi Valmiki who was a bandit and killer, could not say Rama but had to say Mara, you have to speak on the 'level' to get through sometimes. Also the biggest Kanjars have the biggest potential, like the story of Bhagat Naamdev who wanted to 'do' his wife so much he mistook a snake for a rope and among other things.

What is this story about Bhagat Namdev? I have never it before. Please enlighten. Who wanted to do who's wife?

Regarding Rehras, what is sampooran is what Guru gave us. I don't know when Sikhs became smarter than Guru to declare something sampooran or adhooran.

[dalsingh101]

Remember Rsi Valmiki who was a bandit and killer, could not say Rama but had to say Mara, you have to speak on the 'level' to get through sometimes. Also the biggest Kanjars have the biggest potential, like the story of Bhagat Naamdev who wanted to 'do' his wife so much he mistook a snake for a rope and among other things.

Hang on! So did you use that analogy because you think I am possibly a big kunjar with potential who needed to spoken to on that 'level'?

ha ha!

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

No no not for you i just took the opportunity to spread things for the other Kanjars who were reading it.

The story goes something like this ,

Before Bhagat Naamdev became a Bhagat he got married to a woman whom he was infatuated with. He was with her all the time playing with her. One day she said that she had to go to her parents house and stay a couple of nights. Naamdev begged her not to go, but she would not have it and went off. Naamdev was in a poor state the first night he just about managed but the second night he could not take it and had to go and play about with his wife. It was a dark stormy night. Naamdev had to cross many dangers and a river to get to his in-laws house. But he had so much power of kaam he forgot all this and left the house. It was raining and thundering and Naamdev set out he come across something first but i forget, next he come to a river it was dark he saw something that looked like a boat he jumped on and paddled across. He then came to the house of his in laws. His wifes room was on the top floor there was tree outside but he could not climb it but then he saw a rope and climbed up and into the window of the house. When he saw his wife she was mad. After she calmed down she told him to look out the window and said that 'boat' you come across the river in was a mans corpse and the rope you used was a deadly cobra but because of your lust you did not see any of these things you just had one thing in your mind, if you had the same devotion to God you would be a saint. So Naamdev became a saint.

[Mithar]

No no not for you i just took the opportunity to spread things for the other Kanjars who were reading it.

The story goes something like this ,

Before Bhagat Naamdev became a Bhagat he got married to a woman whom he was infatuated with. He was with her all the time playing with her. One day she said that she had to go to her parents house and stay a couple of nights. Naamdev begged her not to go, but she would not have it and went off. Naamdev was in a poor state the first night he just about managed but the second night he could not take it and had to go and play about with his wife. It was a dark stormy night. Naamdev had to cross many dangers and a river to get to his in-laws house. But he had so much power of kaam he forgot all this and left the house. It was raining and thundering and Naamdev set out he come across something first but i forget, next he come to a river it was dark he saw something that looked like a boat he jumped on and paddled across. He then came to the house of his in laws. His wifes room was on the top floor there was tree outside but he could not climb it but then he saw a rope and climbed up and into the window of the house. When he saw his wife she was mad. After she calmed down she told him to look out the window and said that 'boat' you come across the river in was a mans corpse and the rope you used was a deadly cobra but because of your lust you did not see any of these things you just had one thing in your mind, if you had the same devotion to God you would be a saint. So Naamdev became a saint.

I think this is the story of Tulsi Das not Bhagat NamDev.

[dalsingh101]

No no not for you i just took the opportunity to spread things for the other Kanjars who were reading it.

Let's just be a little more careful about labeling people as kunjurs. lol

But I do get your point about communicating with people on a common platform. Failure to do this in Gurdwara has resulted in a generation who generally don't know much about their faith.

[dalsingh101]

I got the gutka you guys recommended today. I bought the Singh Bros one and the Taksali one.

[Wicked Warrior]

Personally I have found it much more difficult to bani whilst doing other things. Unless the task in handle is simple or repetitive and doesn't require much attention, I end up forgetting where I am in the paat and have to stop and restart from the last bit I remember. Hence a quiet time is easier.

I have tried experimenting with reciting Bani whilst say the TV is on so I can try and concentrate my mind more. I have a feeling that it will become very important to be able to recite Bani whilst there is the danger and sound of war in the background.

[dalsingh101]

Having tried a few different ways, I have to say that listening to paath whilst doing something else seems to have less fal then solely focusing on it. I don't advise it unless it is unavoidable.

The technique I am currently using involves listening to someone experienced recite bani via mp3 and over the ear headphones, whilst trying to follow with my gutka. If you do this, position the ear pads so they only partially cover your ears so you can hear your own voice also. It seems better that way.

For the record guys, I noticed my taksali gutka is missing the bindhis on certain letters. By this I mean the letters that constitute the 40 line in the Gurmukhi alphabet (the ones covering Persian/Arab sounds). This was in Jaap Sahib.

[Matheen]

For the record guys, I noticed my taksali gutka is missing the bindhis on certain letters. By this I mean the letters that constitute the 40 line in the Gurmukhi alphabet (the ones covering Persian/Arab sounds). This was in Jaap Sahib.

Without bindis is correct.