Coming Soon: Burqa Fine In France

[kdsingh80]

France is formulating a strict new law under which women who wear full-length veils (burqa) in public places will have to pay a fine of over 750 Euro.

The amount could be doubled for Muslim men who force their wives or other female members of their to cover their faces, The Daily Mail has reported.

Jean-Francois Cope, president of Nicolas Sarkozy's ruling UMP Party in the French parliament, said the new was intended to protect the 'dignity' and 'security' of women.

He is set to file the draft law in the National Assembly after Sarkozy said veils are 'not welcome' as they intimidate and alienate non-Muslims, especially in a secular country like France.

"We want a ban in public areas," said Cope, making clear that the veil would not be allowed in public buildings, or on the streets of France, as it encourages extremism.

Cope said, "The wearing of the burqas will be subject to a fine, probably of the 4th class, which is to say 750 Euros."

He said the fine would apply to 'all people on the public street whose face is entirely covered'.

A parliamentary inquiry into the wearing of all-body burqas and naqabs is due to publish its recommendations next month, the report said.

__________________

[shaheediyan]

Bunch of idiots:

"Jean-Francois Cope, president of Nicolas Sarkozy's ruling UMP Party in the French parliament, said the new was intended to protect the 'dignity' and 'security' of women."

Then

"He is set to file the draft law in the National Assembly after Sarkozy said veils are 'not welcome' as they intimidate and alienate non-Muslims, especially in a secular country like France."

Make up your mind...

These people are a disgrace to Napoleons revolution. Yes, Napoleon brought secularist/democratical rule to Europe, but at the same time, he brought freedom of worship for all practicing faiths, these Nazis selectively choose aspects of Napoleons ideas to justify their hatred/ignorance.

France was responsible for freeing the Jews from the Vatican created ghettos after hundreds of years of slavery/abuse/discrimination, Napoleon himself became a great admirer of Muhammed Sahib after studing the Quran during his stay in Egypt.

These people spit on the amazing changes that France brought to the world, whilst at the same time standing proud of the same.

[dalsingh101]

I think we may see a slow rightward crawl in more and more of Europe over time. The EU is still in its infancy, I wonder what character it will take when it matures a bit?

[kdsingh80]

I think we may see a slow rightward crawl in more and more of Europe over time. The EU is still in its infancy, I wonder what character it will take when it matures a bit?

Gegun ke saath ghun bh pista haio

Well the condition of sikh will be like like ghun.

[dalsingh101]

Gegun ke saath ghun bh pista haio

Don't understand this?

Besides, if Sikhs fail to navigate themselves into a position that matters at the table, they will deserve what they have coming to them.

[kdsingh80]

Don't understand this?

Besides, if Sikhs fail to navigate themselves into a position that matters at the table, they will deserve what they have coming to them.

Well That is famous Indian kahavat

Literal - Creatures infesting the wheat are ground along with it (on the grind stone).

anyway what i am trying to say is that they will impose restrictions to curtail islam and its practices

and they will also impose them on sikhs too Like Turban ban which mainly directed at muslims headscarf

but because they cannot impose it on muslims so they will impose condtions on religious symbols and indirectly mkany turbaned sikhs will find themself in difficult situation

[dalsingh101]

It will differ from country to country unless a Pan-European policy comes about. Whether this changes depends on a number of things. Personally I feel much of the west is currently way too dependent on sullay, specifically Arabs to go too too far at the moment. I don't think people are really aware of how much Arab money is pumped into the UK right now, both through formal investment and retail.

The current situation demands we meet things bravely. We haven't got much of a voice or power right now, that is our big issue.

[dalsingh101]

I have to add, so much has changed in the UK panth now I think of it. When the campaign to wear paghs on motorbikes (1976) or as a bus conductor (1966) started in the UK, masses of Sikhs from all backgrounds mobilised to support it.

I wonder if this community wide support would happen today?

Plus Sikh symbols seem to get a lot of bad press these days. The incident with the girl wearing a kara at school was majorly reported and seemed to upset a lot of wasps. The recent portrayal of dastaars has also appeared farcical, with accounts of bullet proof turbans and turbans wrapped over helmets.

Edited January 9, 2010 by dalsingh101

[amardeep]

the biggest threat to european democracy is not islamists. Its right wing governments that undermine the democracy in their hunt to protect it

[Mithar]

As mentioned earlier, I’m no fan of Islam and neither do I act politically correct when it comes to Islam. I personally don’t care what these laws will mean to the Muslims, but I know one thing that these right wing laws cannot be positive for the Sikhs either.

[dsd108]

the biggest threat to european democracy is not islamists. Its right wing governments that undermine the democracy in their hunt to protect it

But in the city where Jesus was born, relations between Christians and Muslims are more complicated than they appear.

Christians are no longer the majority of the 30,000 inhabitants of the city, as they always were in the past The Muslims are now more numerous than the Christians in the same proportion that the mosques exceed the churches, by a margin of 15 to 10.

The mayor of Bethlehem is still a Christian, as always. Eight out of the fifteen seats on the city council are still reserved for Christians. But in the latest municipal elections, which took place in May of 2005, a coalition with crucial support from the Muslims of Hamas emerged victorious.

[amardeep]

I personally don’t care what these laws will mean to the Muslims, but I know one thing that these right wing laws cannot be positive for the Sikhs either.

Yeah that's the spirit!

[amardeep]

dsd:

Im referring to right wing governments here in Europe

[shaheediyan]

"I personally don’t care what these laws will mean to the Muslims".

This attitude is the exact problem, this is the reason why freedom of worship is going to eventually be curtailed across Europe. I am glad our Gurus didn't have this sick, inhumane and selfish attitude, otherwise... as shown by Nauven Paatshahs shaheedi (defending ones right to practice their faith).

The same people are also thinking the same with regards to Sikhs (as has been seen in France, Germany, Belgium etc).

Eventually all people with think the same with regards to everyone else (we are not far from this now), and what a wonderful world we will then live in...

But then...

"but I know one thing that these right wing laws cannot be positive for the Sikhs either."

Bingo Einstein!!

[ishvar2]

'First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out.'

Pastor Martin Niemöller

[shaheediyan]

Exactly. Thank you.

[Kaljug]

The difference between the dastaar and the burqa is that the burqa is no part of anyone's religion. It's simply a tool used in predominantly tribal and patriarchal Arab societies to suppress their women.

Given that thousands of women in the Muslim world are regularly raped and subjected to sexual harrassment for not wearing a burqa, I hope that those of you who are so swift to ensure these women are kept dressed in binbags will act with equal righteous indignation for the rights of those who do not want to be subjected to such revolting customs forced upon them by the Muslim world.

Regards,

K.

[Matheen]

Bear in mind that when the French banned the burqa from schools (and head scarves too), they also banned the Dastar - it's still banned in public schools.

I doubt this will pass through their parliament, but if it does, things will kick off for sure.

In any case, if someone wants to wear a burqa, santa claus costume or anything else, it is not the place of the state to stop them.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Matheen

[Kaljug]

Bear in mind that when the French banned the burqa from schools (and head scarves too), they also banned the Dastar - it's still banned in public schools.

I doubt this will pass through their parliament, but if it does, things will kick off for sure.

In any case, if someone wants to wear a burqa, santa claus costume or anything else, it is not the place of the state to stop them.

I don't agree with the French government's decision, but it's simply wrong to suggest that the Gurus would have approved of a practice meant to force women to completely wipe out their individuality by making them invisible to the rest of the world.

The objection of the Gurus to the purdah is clear in this sakhi:

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Purdah

Regards,

K.

[amardeep]

Given that thousands of women in the Muslim world are regularly raped and subjected to sexual harrassment for not wearing a burqa, I hope that those of you who are so swift to ensure these women are kept dressed in binbags will act with equal righteous indignation for the rights of those who do not want to be subjected to such revolting customs forced upon them by the Muslim world.

please provide some sources for the above claim. Still I dont see why muslim opression in the middle east should result in a ban on burkas in the west. Thats like saying "because women are raped in the middle east we should ban people from having sex in the west". its the same faulty logic.

Regarding the sakhi of Guru Amardas and the purda i think the rani was a hindu wearing the purd. If I remember correctly this sakhi illustrates Maharajs dissaproval of a downtrodden people adopting the lifestyle of their oppressor... Same way you see Guru Nanak criticising the khastriyas in Asa di vaar for adopting the language and customs of their muslim opressors.

please correct me if im wrong

[dalsingh101]

A friend just today said how she found it really strange that a student of hers wears a full shabang ninja suit and on her college pass, her picture has her wearing the face mask thing. She was wondering if it was worth it? Does a security guard have to carefully study the eyes to see if it is an imposter?

[shaheediyan]

The Burqa is and can be seen as part of the Islamic faith - as we have different maryada and interpretations, so do Muslims, regarding modesty, some schools intepret that women should be covered completely.

A rational person would have taken into account anthropological studies undertaken in the west and would have realised that there is actually a phenomena in the west - whereby many modern Muslim females have out of personal choice, decided to adopt the Burqa, the reasons behind this (there are more than one) are irrelevant - the only thing that matters is that they see it as dignified/religious and a sign/hukum of their faith, as the dastaar is of ours.

Many kids in India are forced to keep joorai and patkai/dastaars and anyone with recent knowledge of India knows that 'Sikh' boys get bullied and picked on through out Punjab, let alone the rest of India, most hate their kes and can't wait for the opportunity to cut them, but there are still many srtict parents i.e. Kashmiri sangat, who will beat you silly in public for such an act.

Because of this, should we ban the Dastaar in the west?

Misguided and forceful adoption of rvaaj (both wrong) does not justify a 3rd uneducated party to pass judgement on anothers faith, its simply dictatorial.

[dalsingh101]

I personally have no problems with the ninja suits. Doesn't bother me. It is infact a good response to the incessant objectification of women's physical form with sexuality that takes place in the west.

I just don't like the whole idea of telling other socities how to live when it isn't bothering you or any of your concern. That judgemental, nosey, interferring style belongs to the wasps, not Singhs.

[kdsingh80]

Many kids in India are forced to keep joorai and patkai/dastaars and anyone with recent knowledge of India knows that 'Sikh' boys get bullied and picked on through out Punjab, let alone the rest of India, most hate their kes and can't wait for the opportunity to cut them, but there are still many srtict parents i.e. Kashmiri sangat, who will beat you silly in public for such an act.

I think if sikh society Give option to boys then 80-95%

will opt for haircut

[dalsingh101]

Have you ever wondered?