Ravidass Followers Declare Separate Religion, Released Separate Religious Granth

[kdsingh80]

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/22953/38/

Ravidass followers declare separate religion, released separate religious granth

Punjab Newsline Network

Sunday, 31 January 2010

JALANDHAR: Taking a leaf out of Sikh religion, the followers of Bhagat Ravidass have declared 'Ravidassia', a separate religion and affirmed Guru Ravidass their sole master. They have also released a separate religious granth 'Amrit Bani Guru Ravidass' which will replace Guru Granth Sahib in all Ravidass temples.

The Ravidass followers made this announcement in Ravidass temple in Kashi in Banaras district of Uttar Pardesh which would serve as highest temporal seat for the community. The community as sought recognition of Ravidassia's a sepearate community.

The new holy granth which contains the 'Bani' of only Bhagat Ravidass (included in Guru Granmth Sahib) was released by Sant Niranjan Dass head of dera Sach Khand Ballan in Jalandhar district. The Balla dera had came to lime light when last year few Sikh miscreants attacked on Ravidass temple in Viana in Austria and dera preacher Swami Rama Nand of Balla dera was killed. The Sikhs had objected that due respect was not given to Guru Grnath Sahib in the Ravidass temple.

Cerain sections of Ravidass community were opposing to domination of Sikhs over them and were trying to eastablish separate identity for their community. Recently, a famous Punjabi singer Miss Pooja had also released a song on these lines for setting up separate religion for Ravidassias.

The reports reaching here said that the community leaders at Kashi have also released the logo of community on which word 'Hari is written. The slogan to address Ravidassia will be 'Jai Gurudev'.

The declaration of separate religion by Ravidassia is bound to have its impact on Sikh politics particularly in context of Punjab. It is considered a majoir set back for the Shiromani Gurdawara parbahandak Committee (SGPC) supreme Sikh body which was trying to keep Ravidassia community in the Sikh fold. The critics of SGPC blamed it on SGPC for their failure to give due respect to Ravidassia community.

Meanwhile, Sandeep Singh national general secretary of youth wing of SAD (Panch Pardhani) on Sunday said that agents of Hindu forces in the Ravidass community have taken such decision to disintegrate followers of Guru Ravidass from Sikh religion. He said that there is no place for communalism and casteism in Sikh religion. He warned of consequences of such steps which would be harmful for the dalits. He hoped that the awakened dalits of Punjab would not fall prey to motives of people working against their interests.

[dalsingh101]

You could see this coming a mile off.

Fact is we have 'turfed them off' Sikhism, whether people want to admit it or not.

Now the Sikh 'minority' is about to get smaller!

Surely we are one of the dumbest quoms about?

Edited January 31, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

You could see this coming a mile off.

Fact is we have 'turfed them off' Sikhism, whether people want to admit it or not.

Now the Sikh 'minority' is about to get smaller!

Surely we are one of the dumbest quoms about?

The discrimination lower caste faced in sikhism in nothing compared to sikhism still large number of lower caste are within the fold of Hinduism.The declaration of a new religion clearly shows that how much faith these Ravidasia's have in sikh Guru's .These days it is trend that leave sikhism and blame discrimination.

[dalsingh101]

KDS

You can't ignore the rampant discrimination by so called Sikhs towards so called lower castes, I've seen so much of it, it would take an age to tell you. At some point Sikhs have to face up to these things. There is discrimination. It isn't a figment of people's imagination.

Just because it goes on in Hinduism, doesn't excuse it for Sikhs.

Plus how much are Sikh institutes Jatt nepotistic affairs. The problem is endemic.

Edited January 31, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

KDS

You can't ignore the rampant discrimination by so called Sikhs towards so called lower castes, I've seen so much of it, it would take an age to tell you. At some point Sikhs have to face up to these things. There is discrimination. It isn't a figment of people's imagination.

Just because it goes on in Hinduism, doesn't excuse it for Sikhs.

Plus how much are Sikh institutes Jatt nepotistic affairs. The problem is endemic.

I agree that there is discrimination and it should be eliminated but the question is why only sikhism? Arabs still consider themself superior in islam and treat muslim workers from other countries as trash.they go to poor muslim countries marrytheir under age girls and then leave them .But i never heard any case of poor downtrodden muslims leaving islam because of discrimination

[bhooliya]

Surinder Singh Jodhka has been doing research on Ravidas community for so long.

http://kafila.org/2009/05/26/making-sense-of-the-ravi-dasis-surinder-s-jodhka/

Google his name and you will find plenty of information to have educated guess on Ravidas community.

Edited January 31, 2010 by bhooliya

[Xylitol]

lack of sharda + fed up + greener pastures elsewhere

[DSG]

I believe the biggest problem is people dont want to make the effort , get out of their comfort zones , discipline themselves , to read what is in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for themselves and practice it , they rather hear someone with a "bit" of knowledge may have some status , rather than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, because from the little I understand from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , it is praising Almighty God , telling you how to live your life , if they read sir Guru Hranth Sahib Ji , and practice it , they cant go wrong ----- sadly its all politics .

If you read and practice what our guru is saying it abolishes caste , low class etc.. altogether but we should be ready to listen to our guru.

[bhooliya]

Punjabi Chamar is very rich and this is political move on their part.

[dalsingh101]

I agree that there is discrimination and it should be eliminated but the question is why only sikhism? Arabs still consider themself superior in islam and treat muslim workers from other countries as trash.they go to poor muslim countries marrytheir under age girls and then leave them .But i never heard any case of poor downtrodden muslims leaving islam because of discrimination

Because we are Sikhs, not camel jockeys. I don't think it is good for us to model ourselves on Johnny Arab in anycase. We have a newer, fresher faith. Plus we need to get our act together and become majorities and stop being minorities!

What others do is their business, we should be focusing on improving our own samajh.

[laalsingh]

Punjabi Chamar is very rich and this is political move on their part.

I agree. This is a political move. Sgpc and Akali Dal tried their best to make amends. Sgpc chief even went to dera to see dera head, who refused to meet him. There was even a Akhand paath on Akal Takhat in memory of killed Sant. Anti Sikh forces wanted this to happen.

Dera has consolidated vote bank. Calling themselves different Dharam and making own maryada is a stunt to free themselves from any kind of objection from Sikhs. Now dera head can sit higher than book or lower than book. He can get matha tek as much he wants.

How can they blame others of casteism, when they are starting a new religion based on caste? They are following Bhagat Ravidas just because he happen to be from chamar background.

[dalsingh101]

The way I see it. If you are generally being treated like shite in a organised society you have three options.

(1) Try to change the society from within be this overtly as through a militant movemnet or subtley.

(2) Leave the society and join another or try and form a better one yourselves.

(3) Sit there and take the shite like a punch bag.

I don't blame the Ravidasias for what they plan to do. If I was one of them, I'd propbably do the same under the circumstances. I wish them every success.

Punjabi Chamar is very rich and this is political move on their part.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=baVizg7S2KE

What was the point of posting that video? What does it prove other than Jat stupidity is contagious? Those guys are only doing what farmers have been doing for ages? Or is it people think that 'non-Scythian, pure bloods' shouldn't be allowed? lol

Edited February 1, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

Because we are Sikhs, not camel jockeys. I don't think it is good for us to model ourselves on Johnny Arab in anycase. We have a newer, fresher faith. Plus we need to get our act together and become majorities and stop being minorities!

What others do is their business, we should be focusing on improving our own samajh.

But we are Humans too and we suffer from same problems

as all human societies suffer.I am not saying that we should moder ourselves as arabs or Hindu's.I am just showing example that despite strong islamic brotherhood concept Arabs never gave up their superiority in islam.

The creation of Ravidasia religion has more to do with radical dalitism that is practiced by Parties like BSP.

[kdsingh80]

(2) Leave the society and join another or try and form a better one yourselves.

Leaving a society and leaving a religion are 2 different things.sometimes there are many societies

within a single religion

[dalsingh101]

But we are Humans too and we suffer from same problems

as all human societies suffer.I am not saying that we should moder ourselves as arabs or Hindu's.I am just showing example that despite strong islamic brotherhood concept Arabs never gave up their superiority in islam.

The creation of Ravidasia religion has more to do with radical dalitism that is practiced by Parties like BSP.

I don't buy this at all KDS. That is a policy of low expectations for Sikhs. The type of hypocrisy and outright nastiness that characterises the behaviour of some of our brothers towards other brothers doesn't fly. If any sane person is treated like crap they will rightfully question their 'belongingness'.

Sikhs need moral authority in this world but the actions of certain Jatt supremacists and their influence on the panth p1sses that into the wind.

Leaving a society and leaving a religion are 2 different things.sometimes there are many societies

within a single religion

Yes but we do have a Sikh society. We need less excusing and more condemnation.

[tonyhp32]

Let's be honest here and not fall for the same old excuse of casteism. These chamars have received all the benefits of reservation and yet even the richest chamars will still want more and more. Educated Jat girls with B.Ed and M.ed degrees in the villages can't get jobs as teachers but chamar girls even ones who have failed their degrees through reservation can get jobs as teachers. The chamars get their education free and school books free but Jat girls have to pay for their books. Chamars on the birth of a daughter get a shagun on rs 5100 but Jats do not. Isn't that real discrimination? Jats arent all big farmers, majority eek out a bare existence and get no help from the state. If the electricity is free then the govt puts up the cost of fertiliser. I think people like Dalsingh101 need to take their blinkers off or at least take time out to know the facts before using the same old lame excuse about chamars being discriminated against. A few years ago I too would have put it down to discrimination but when you see chamars taking most of the reservation pie even to the detriment of other lower castes like Mazhabis and others then you understand that the reason is altogether different. This is a political act mostly led by chamars from Jullundur with money from NRI chamars. In Malwa the chamars have no such political aim although some may go with this religion here but mostly it will be chamars of doaba who will leave. To be honest most of these people had already declared themselves to be Hindus and Ad Dharmis in the last few censuses so it is unlikely that Sikh percentage will fall much.

These chamars want their cake and eat it. The Sikh leadership if it had any sense should make sure that any chamar declaring himself as belonging to the Ravidass religion is now not eligible for reservation and other benefits because he is neither a Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist as these are the only religions for which reservations can be given. Lets see how long these chamars remain in theri new religion once the money stops flowing!

[dalsingh101]

Not all all Tony. How comes I never hear Bhatra, Tarkhans or lohars crying about reservations or chamars to the extent Jatts go on about it. The real issue is jealousy and the fact that things are turning Jatt pretentions of being a superior race on its head. They have the Akali Dal and the SGPC which clearly favours Jatts over others, but you keep that quiet. Like all of the massive donations to Gurdwaras in Panjab circulating in the Jatt community isn't enough?

Jatts had a good bunk up from the wasps with all the laws they passed in relation to land ownership. I'm sure you know about the laws passed to Jatts advantage disallowing others to buy land under the goray. But now similar bunk ups are going to others, all you hear is wailing and anger.

Plus you're a really dishonest cat. If you don't know about the shameful behaviour of Jatts towards Churah/Chamar, your either in cloud cuckoo land or you know and want to sweep it under the rug like all the others.

What do you do when you see all the videos CLEARLY showing serious aparteid type behaviour in pinds? Blank them from your mind? I have plenty of relatives back home in towns and pinds who tell me what is going on. Plus you even get the odd honest Jatt who owns up to it.

You just got inhumane standards in your heesa of the panth. You need to address that and not try and excuse it. Good that those people are getting a hand up after being depressed for so long.

Thing you people don't understand is, the more Jatts act like a55holes towards others, the less empathy others will have towards Jatt problems like water allocation etc. If you want people to listen to your issues, try listening to theirs too. Anything that gets a more level society in Panjab is a good thing in my eyes. But some people want to keep the old status quo for their obvious advanatage. Let's be frank, these issues between Jatts and Chuhray/Chamars are just part of an ongoing legacy between these communities that in all likelyhood predates the arrival of Sikhi. Thing is watch this discrimination sh1te blow up in our face back home real soon. What makes me sick is the talk from one quarter is never about equality or fairness and trying to shape our society to embody those values inherent in Sikhi. It just all boils down to caste based self serving in the end. In that respect these 'lower castes' are simply doing the same as those 'above' them and mobilising to their own advantage.

[kdsingh80]

I don't buy this at all KDS. That is a policy of low expectations for Sikhs. The type of hypocrisy and outright nastiness that characterises the behaviour of some of our brothers towards other brothers doesn't fly

May be this is low expectation but the fact is we humans always divide ourself.Just look at thread student visa someone stated that UK sikhs should help

migrant sikhs and immdiately blame game started they are worse we are better.

To be I honest I belive that majority of us have this

caste/racist mentality by which we always try to prove superior than others.

If any sane person is treated like crap they will rightfully question their 'belongingness'.

You are right a person will rightfully question his belongingness but the question will he create a new religion because he is discriminated? Lower caste sikhs can create their own Gurdwara's they can read bani.all these things are justified if they are discriminated

.But in no way they can justify creating a new religion and that too of a Guru which just belong to their own caste.Jatt domination is wrong but sikhism is universal faith.the creation of a new religion only shows that they have no love for sikhism ,or sikh guru's or the teachings of Guru granth sahib.

Dalsingh do you really think that by creating a new religion all that discrimination will end? The answer is no.The only people who will benefit from it are their sants who don't have to follow akal takhat maryada now.

[dalsingh101]

May be this is low expectation but the fact is we humans always divide ourself.Just look at thread student visa someone stated that UK sikhs should help migrant sikhs and immdiately blame game started they are worse we are better.

When we don't regularly question and evaluate our corporate behaviour we go downhill as a society. Simple fact. Some brothers on that thread went too far in my opinion, I said as much. But that doesn't detract from the fact that certain behaviour from some of our, shall we say, more amorous incoming brothers don't need addressing.

To be I honest I belive that majority of us have this caste/racist mentality by which we always try to prove superior than others.

Then we need to talk about it, especially how to minimise it. Not keep quiet until it runs rampant in our quom. No? That's our problem also, putting up with sh1te we really shouldn't. At the very least we should push for some degree of civilised behaviour between ourselves. I don't expect us to be some idealistic hippy community, but the abuse, physical, verbal and even sexual that some d1ckhead brothers take part in needs to be knocked on the head, sharpish. It will be better for our society as a whole.

You are right a person will rightfully question his belongingness but the question will he create a new religion because he is discriminated? Lower caste sikhs can create their own Gurdwara's they can read bani.all these things are justified if they are discriminated

.But in no way they can justify creating a new religion and that too of a Guru which just belong to their own caste.Jatt domination is wrong but sikhism is universal faith.the creation of a new religion only shows that they have no love for sikhism ,or sikh guru's or the teachings of Guru granth sahib.

Sikhi is both personal (spiritually) and corporate (politically/socially) KDS. Whilst we experience the beauty of Sikhi on a very personal level through nam simran/bhagti, the importance of corporate life is equally highlighted through the concept of sangat. If meeting this sangat results in negativity and a general supercillious attitude (as it frequently does for so called low castes), then of course this will impact on their perception of panth. Just generally how they are talked about and talked too is pretty disgusting, and people are in denial. I've seen my own family do it.

Dalsingh do you really think that by creating a new religion all that discrimination will end? The answer is no.The only people who will benefit from it are their sants who don't have to follow akal takhat maryada now.

I don't know. Maybe they will have a better chance with their own platform, who knows? One thing is for certain though, unless prevailing attitudes change (which is highly unlikely), they will essentially remain 2nd class members of the panth. What can I say? To me anyone not fighting discrimination directed towards them are not men. To be straight up, if they settled for third rate membership of the panth, which is what is being foisted on them, I would be more disappointed than with what they have done. However all of this just distracts from the causal factor of knob headed behaviour by a hell of a lot of our brothers. That is what we need to address, then the likelyhood of this type of crap happening sharply decreases. I feel sad that they have left the panth, but I honestly don't know how I would react if I was on the receiving end like I have seen them be?

What I realise is that people like Tony harbour deeply embedded hatred and suspicion of these other communities, probably as teh result of generational brainwashing that has taken place in his family. Frequently the Jatt Chamar relationship is framed in terms of "they are getting above themselves", "they don't know their place". There is a genuine fear of being usurped by chamars.

I don't know why anyone who considers themselves as Singhs would want to perpetuate oppression myself? And a lot of that seems to be coming from certain quarters more than others. This is all about Jatt domination of Panjab politics in the end I guess? farmers need to realise, we can all do well but their identity has become so hinged on being 'high caste' now that they fall over themselves to keep that perceived position.

Edited February 1, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

One thing is for certain though, unless prevailing attitudes change (which is highly unlikely), they will essentially remain 2nd class members of the panth. What can I say? To me anyone not fighting discrimination directed towards them are not men. To be straight up, if they settled for third rate membership of the panth, which is what is being foisted on them

That's the point they are not fighting discrimination.

They are running from discrimination by creating a new religion.If they really has spine they should fight caste discrimination by remaining within sikhism but they are choosing easy route and that is creating a new religion.

And Btw the census of India is going to happen in 2011

will they ask GOI to recognise them as new religion.GOI still don't recognise new religions.They will put them under the bracket of Hinduism and soon they will become 4th class citizen of Hindu society .

so the main question is that the creation of new religion is really a fighting oppression or just they are reverting back to hinduism

[kdsingh80]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/rssfeed/punjab/New-Punjab-sect-lays-down-code/Article1-504200.aspx

New Punjab sect lays down code

Kamaljeet Paul, Hindustan Times

Print

The Dera Sachkhand Ballan released a code of conduct for its followers on Monday after formally severing its ties with Sikhism.

While Sachkhand means the abode of God, Ballan is the village where the dera (the congregation) is located on the outskirts of Jalandhar.

The dera, where devotees of Ravidas come together, announced on Saturday its distinct faith on the 633rd birth anniversary of its patron saint.

“We will respect all religions, love mankind, and lead a virtuous life,” the code declares, adding that the followers will recite texts from the new holy book of the faith.

According to sources, Sikh holy book Guru Granth Sahib, which thus far had a place of honour at Ravidas shrines, is now likely to be replaced with a newly released Amritbani Satguru Ravidas Maharaj-ji — though in a phased manner.

The new code lays down the objectives of the Ravidassia Dharam — primarily propagating Ravidas’ teachings. Besides, the teachings of Namdev and Kabir — Bhakti saints of the 15th and 16th centuries — will also be propagated. There is no mention, however, of any of the 10 Sikh gurus.

Relations between Ravidassias and Sikhs were strained following the assassination of Dera Sachkhand deputy chief Sant Ramanand in Vienna in May last year. Dera chief Sant Niranjan Dass had sustained bullet injuries. Sikh hardliners are suspected to have been behind the attack.

[kdsingh80]

So from now onwards bani of 10 sikh Guru's is not even acceptable to them.The same bani which they used to read and respected.Is this the way they are fighting oppression?

[dalsingh101]

So from now onwards bani of 10 sikh Guru's is not even acceptable to them.The same bani which they used to read and respected.Is this the way they are fighting oppression?

It is a sad state of affairs. Trust me, this may cause the panth problems in the long run if it takes off. We need a much more representative SGPC and Akali Dal. There should be quotas there. Plus we need to stop this aparteid in the pinds.

If America can have a black president, I'm sure we can do a lot better in our polity. We need change to the existing order, it has become corrupt.

[kdsingh80]

It is a sad state of affairs. Trust me, this may cause the panth problems in the long run if it takes off. We need a much more representative SGPC and Akali Dal. There should be quotas there. Plus we need to stop this aparteid in the pinds.

If America can have a black president, I'm sure we can do a lot better in our polity. We need change to the existing order, it has become corrupt.

Agree with it we need representation of lower caste sikhs.But those sikhs should only be one who have respect for sikhism and not puppets of radical dalits.

[dalsingh101]

Agree with it we need representation of lower caste sikhs.But those sikhs should only be one who have respect for sikhism and not puppets of radical dalits.

We also need to eject the closet Jatt pillocks also. But the problem is, if we do that we'd have no one in our institutions. Plus a lot more of them will be killing themselves because their livelihoods have been taken away. Have you noticed how they have no shame with jumping into bed with the RSS when it suits them?

Seeing all this, I'm glad we never got Khalistan now.

Edited February 2, 2010 by dalsingh101