SAadmin Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 I just wanted to share rara sahib and hotimardan stance on mool mantar in this thread and it seems pretty interesting and unique- sants from those samparda's beleive in mool mantar is up to Gurparsad and rest is shalok but then it ask jaigaso to jap until - nanak hosi bhi sach ||. I am bit curious about this myself. My take is because to reduce intensity of mool mantar itself? What you guys think? Anyway, here is portion of atamik bachan divan of sant isher singh ji rara sahib talking about this- i was looking for this for long time, finally found it as i was requested multiple times to post it up on the internet some time ago on the forum. www.2shared.com/audio/dAAHQzgA/Sant_Maharaj_ji_view_on_mool_m.html? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amritkhalsa Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) Listen to Baba Hari Singh (Randhawe wale) Katha, he uses Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindran wale, Sant baba thakur singh ji khalsa, Bhai Manni Singh Taksal and Baba Deep Singhs Taksaal and other varoius samparda's to prove that Mool Mantar is to Naanak Hosee Bhee Sach. Right click on the link below and save target as: http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio/katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Hari_Singh_%28Randhawe_wale%29/Baba.Hari.Singh--Mool.Mantar.Nirna.mp3 Edited February 16, 2010 by amritkhalsa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) I also have a few tapes of Sant Isher Singh Ji Rarewale saying that Mool Mantar is up to 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach'. In the link you post, they are talking of 'Maha Mantar' or Mool Mantar as given by Akaal Purakh to Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Guru Sahib then gave Mool Mantar to Sikhs - up to 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach'. Just as Japji Sahib is incomplete without the Salok, Mool Mantar is incomplete unless we read up to 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach' The old sewadars of Sant Ji have confirmed this with me, but there is one guy in the UK who insists that they said it was up to 'Gurparsad', even after he was given the tape! Edited February 16, 2010 by Matheen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 sorry singh i m not getting it, sant baba isher singh ji rara sahib wale clearly states in the tape above- Ikongkar satnaam kartapurkh nirbhau nirvaier akaal moraat ajoni saibhang Gurparsad || Ehna mool mantar kahuenda hai. He clearly stated it. He is not talking about maha mantar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) Yes, they said 'kahaundey' ah. Maybe they were speaking of people who say that, I don't know. However, they did say to recite up to 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach'. Let me see if the tapes I have are on gurmatveechar - I will post a link here. I don't think the reason for reciting up to 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach' is to reduce the intensity. It's the form that Guru Sahib gave to his Sikhs, after adding Ustat of Akaal Purakh. Edited February 16, 2010 by Matheen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 A few weeks ago someone on this site posted the mukat marag granth said to be written by Guru Gobind Singh. on the first page it had the mool mantar which ended at gurparsaad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 or maybe it was the sharda pooran granth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Mool Mantar or Mangalacharan? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji instructs to read till "Nanak Hose Bhe Sach", but HE says that Moo-Mantar is till "Gurprashad" but Mahapurakhs asks people to do till "Nanak Hose Bhe Sach". For me: It is we have to read till "Nanak Hose Bhe Sach" but Mool-Mantar is till "Gurprashad". Secondly, there is another link where BabaJi explained this as follows: "Sacha Sauda -Vaiyeen Neddi Wala Prasang" starting at time: 59.20. ---- "Ikonkar till Gurparshad" - Mool-Mantar; ---- "Waheguru" - Gurmantar ---- "Ikonkar" - Maha-Mantar ---- "Satnam" - Parpurbha-Mantar ---- "Japji Sahib" - Mala-Mantar Edited February 17, 2010 by das 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Punjab Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 harkowal wale sants say it is up to gurparsad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Yeah harkhowale mahapursh says up to gurparsad. Please note: Harkhowale samparda and rara sahib samparda are like gur bhai samparda as both goes to baba karam singh ji maharaj hotimardan wale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Interesting. I have some research on this, I will dig it up. As far as I have seen, all traditional sampryada teach Mool Mantar is to Hosi Bi Sach i.e. Nihangs, Nirmalai, Taksals, Udasis. All Panj Pyare (apart from Singh Sabiya and AKJ) also give Mool Mantar rehit up to Hosi Bi Sach. Das, I have the Mantars understood in the following order: Beej Mantar = Ik Onkaar Maha Mantar = Gurprsaad Mool Mantar = Nanak Hosi Bi Sach Mala Mantar = Japji Sahib I am sure in one the Janam Sakhis, Maha Mantar is given by Akaal Purkh to Guru Nanak Dev Ji (to Gurprsaad) and Guru Maharajs reply is the Aad Sach up to Hosi Bi Sach - which then constituted the divine conversation - the Mool Mantar for Sikhs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Also, I am sure I have heard Sant Jagjit Singh Ji relaying that Hosi Bi Sach is Mool Mantar. May be someone familiar with their kathaa can dig the audio up for this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 We can discuss this topic, but everyone should take a step back and abhyaas of mool mantar until gurparsad or until nanak hosi bhi sach if topic get out of hand. In my opinion, this topic is not worth debating because abhyaas of mool mantar is more than debate over it. I just wanted to know different view points of scholars and saints. I remember sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale telling the sangat, how he was discussing this topic with sant hari singh randhwale for hours but at end, decided to agree to disagree respectfully. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 So Sant Jagjit Singh Jis view is to Gurprsaad? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Punjab Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Also, I am sure I have heard Sant Jagjit Singh Ji relaying that Hosi Bi Sach is Mool Mantar. May be someone familiar with their kathaa can dig the audio up for this. I am talking about sant baba jawala singh (spelling?), the mahapursh after them sant baba mohinder singh and current harkowal sant , sant baba didar singh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 haan ji consistent with rara sahib. On a side note: does anyone want to research bit more on this by reading sant isher singh ji rara sahib dairy- ishvar amolak lal? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Secondly, there is another link where BabaJi explained this as follows: "Sacha Sauda -Vaiyeen Neddi Wala Prasang" starting at time: 59.20. Where can i download or listen to that parsang? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 haan ji consistent with rara sahib. On a side note: does anyone want to research bit more on this by reading sant isher singh ji rara sahib dairy- ishvar amolak lal? I will read it tonight. I've checked my tapes (bachan with Sangat in UK) and they definitely tell the sangat to recite up to 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach'. These might be on ik13.com, when the audio section is updated. I can also confirm that when they had Amrit Sanchars, they taught 'Waheguru' as Gurmantar and Mool Mantar upto 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach'. N30, I think this is more an argument over semantics - none of the Mahapursh or Sampardas mentioned ask their students to recite up to 'Gurparsad', but up to the end, as your first link shows. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Bhai Gurdas Ji Diyan Vaaran: Vaar 39 ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ਇਕਾਂਗ ਲਿਖਿ ਊੜਾ ਓਅੰਕਾਰੁ ਲਿਖਾਇਆ । ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ । ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਨਾਉ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਭਾਇਆ । ਗੁਰਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਹ ਜੁਗੰਤਰਿ ਹੋਂਦਾ ਆਇਆ । ਹੈਭੀ ਹੋਸੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਉ ਸਚੁ ਦਰਸਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ । ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਲਿਵਲੀਣੁ ਹੋਇ ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਪਰਚਾ ਪਰਚਾਇਆ । ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੀਹ ਇਕੀਹ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਉ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਇਆ । ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲੁ ਅਲਖੁ ਲਖਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Baba Hari Singh Ji kathaa mentions (in the earlier attached kathaa) that all the Rara Sahib and Hoti Mardaan Mahapursh including the aforementioned all taught Mool Mantar to Hosi Bi Sach. The mention all the Puratan Sampryada starting from the 5 Singhs who went to Kashi (Nirmalai), Bhai Daya Singh Ji, Baba Deep Singh/Bhai Manni Singh Ji etc and the traditions passed down. Its actually a very good kathaa, very well researched and complete. This basic research also touches on the same sort of topics: http://www.scribd.com/doc/2182658/The-Mool-Mantar-Controversy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) Where can i download or listen to that parsang? It's on GurmatVeechar.com: http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio/katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_%28Rara_Sahib_wale%29/051-100/087--Sant.Isher.Singh.%28Rara.Sahib.wale%29--Sacha.Sauda.-Vaiyeen.Neddi.Wala.Prasang.mp3 Edited February 17, 2010 by das 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji generally asks in Deewan to recite "Mool Mantar" till "Nanak Hose Bhe Sach", in other words to guide normal persons HE tells to do the abyahas of Mool-Mantar using Mala till "Nanak Hose Bhe Sach", but technically HE mentioned Mool-Mantar till "Gurprashad"..... The following are the screen shots of Baba Ji's Diary. Some person might see these screen shots from Diary as contradications, but it is NOT. I have NOT heard any traditional Samparda Sant asking to do Mool-Mantar till "Gurparshad", every Mahapurash asks to do it till "Nanak Hose Bhe Sach". Edited February 19, 2010 by das 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Signature of Satguru has to be there. Bhul chuk Maf. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Thanks for the screen shots das ji. In the first one, mool mantar is quoted as being up to 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach'. The first page of the diary also has mool mantar up to 'Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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