Punjab Youths' Exodus From Home

[kdsingh80]

CNN IBN has made a documentry about the craze of going abroad in Punjab

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/30-minutes-punjabs-youth-exodus-from-home/110451-3.html

For young men in Punjab, nothing is as appealing than an opportunity go to a developed country. For many, going abroad means an opportunity to earn more money and live a better life. Every year close to 50,000 people leave Punjab to go to a foreign country. Till recently, Australia was the preferred destination. Reason: Almost anyone could get a visa. And after your studies, permanent residency and then citizenship was almost certain. And although the recent attacks in countries like Australia has brought down the total number of migrants to 4,000, the desire to go abroad remains a big goal.

[dalsingh101]

I must say, Panjab is looking better than it has before. At least some half decent roads are up.

It's just a shame Badal can't make the place more attractive for foreign investment. I mean, you have an abundance of cheap labour there.

A few manufacturing plants wouldn't go a miss.

[kdsingh80]

I must say, Panjab is looking better than it has before. At least some half decent roads are up.

It's just a shame Badal can't make the place more attractive for foreign investment. I mean, you have an abundance of cheap labour there.

A few manufacturing plants wouldn't go a miss.

At present North India is no match for South India in Foreign investment.South India has cheap land,educated english speaking population,Cheap labour.On the other hand land prices are sky rocketed in Northern India which is turning real investors off.

I think the best industry for punjab is food processing

because of agriculture their O/W Punjab has hardly anything to offer comapre to other states

[HSD1]

Being so close to pakistan, east punjab would be a good place for arms manufacture too.

[dalsingh101]

Being so close to pakistan, east punjab would be a good place for arms manufacture too.

Wouldn't that make those locations obvious first bombing/missle targets in the event of a clash?

I think this scenario is one of the reasons used by the centre to be lightweight about investing in the region in general.

The place would be good for stuff like car manufacturers but the Akalis are incapable of selling the idea professionally. So investors go elsewhere, where people have the ability to make themselves look like they have an idea about modern commerce instead of shabbily prepared pindus we have sitting on our thrones.

[HSD1]

Wouldn't that make those locations obvious first bombing/missle targets in the event of a clash?

Pakistan can hit anywhere in India. It makes sense to have the supplies where they can get to the troops. I remember being told when i was a kid by some old singh in my local gurudwara that during one war between india/pak, the indian prime minister told the army to fall back to a position behind amritsar, but the sikh army commandeer refused and demanded he get the order in writing. The Sikh Regiment/Punjab Regiment ended up pushing the pakis back so thank god it didnt come to that. Not sure if the old singh was entirely accurate about the story as he didnt tell me which one of the wars its was. Without an arms industry in the punjab, we rely solely on the indian army. If they lose or sod off, the sikh nation would not be able to resist pakistani occupation. That alone is a reason there needs to be some kind of modern arms industry there, even if it is just personal weapons rather than anything like fighter jets, tanks etc.

[Ragmaala]

Pakistan can hit anywhere in India. It makes sense to have the supplies where they can get to the troops. I remember being told when i was a kid by some old singh in my local gurudwara that during one war between india/pak, the indian prime minister told the army to fall back to a position behind amritsar, but the sikh army commandeer refused and demanded he get the order in writing. The Sikh Regiment/Punjab Regiment ended up pushing the pakis back so thank god it didnt come to that. Not sure if the old singh was entirely accurate about the story as he didnt tell me which one of the wars its was. Without an arms industry in the punjab, we rely solely on the indian army. If they lose or sod off, the sikh nation would not be able to resist pakistani occupation. That alone is a reason there needs to be some kind of modern arms industry there, even if it is just personal weapons rather than anything like fighter jets, tanks etc.

i have heard a similar anecdote, the army in the front was madrasis or south indians , they fell back , but yea these sikh troops decided to keep fighting and they refused to fall back, i think it ws 1971 war , i have frgotten all the details

maybe someone can shed some more light ...

[dalsingh101]

Pakistan can hit anywhere in India. It makes sense to have the supplies where they can get to the troops. I remember being told when i was a kid by some old singh in my local gurudwara that during one war between india/pak, the indian prime minister told the army to fall back to a position behind amritsar, but the sikh army commandeer refused and demanded he get the order in writing. The Sikh Regiment/Punjab Regiment ended up pushing the pakis back so thank god it didnt come to that. Not sure if the old singh was entirely accurate about the story as he didnt tell me which one of the wars its was. Without an arms industry in the punjab, we rely solely on the indian army. If they lose or sod off, the sikh nation would not be able to resist pakistani occupation. That alone is a reason there needs to be some kind of modern arms industry there, even if it is just personal weapons rather than anything like fighter jets, tanks etc.

Ludhiana is a natural for that type of firearms industry. They already have quite a heavy mechanical industry there. Thing is, with the proliferation of weapons, we are likely to have a jump in murders (already the figures are high). That is something that needs to be faced. Plus honestly, no one in the centre is going to trust Sikhs with proper shasters. We are quite shabby though, would we even make anything decent?

Also, I think we need to pack in the Khalistan idea for a hundred years or so (lets just say until we number 45/50 Million, whenever that is, we can think about it then). I think spreading in India is a better idea, even if this is mostly in sehajdhari form. I was thinking we still need to access and develop Patna Sahib and Hazoor Sahib. Sikhs spread out make sthem in one way less vulnerable than a concentration, although in certain circs this has its own problems (i.e. Delhi 1984). I'm thinking we need to think of India as ours and operate like Jews in Europe. A powerful minority. We should also champion the people, get them onside instead of being ajeebly insular as we now.

Whatever plans we make have to consider the wider picture over the next 100 years or so. I'm proud to be Panjabi, but for a variety of reasons we can't put all our eggs solely in the Panjab basket right now.

Edited February 24, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

Pakistan can hit anywhere in India. It makes sense to have the supplies where they can get to the troops. I remember being told when i was a kid by some old singh in my local gurudwara that during one war between india/pak, the indian prime minister told the army to fall back to a position behind amritsar, but the sikh army commandeer refused and demanded he get the order in writing. The Sikh Regiment/Punjab Regiment ended up pushing the pakis back so thank god it didnt come to that. Not sure if the old singh was entirely accurate about the story as he didnt tell me which one of the wars its was. Without an arms industry in the punjab, we rely solely on the indian army. If they lose or sod off, the sikh nation would not be able to resist pakistani occupation. That alone is a reason there needs to be some kind of modern arms industry there, even if it is just personal weapons rather than anything like fighter jets, tanks etc.

My mamaji told me that in 1965 war pakistan came with pattan tank and Indian strategy was let them come to Punjab then war should be fought.But sikh regiment refused and war was fought on Pakistani soil.Sikh soldiers took the mines in their hand put it under the point from where it was blown like suicide bombers.War was fought on pakistani soil and Punjab was saved O/W lot damage could had happened to Punjab

[Mithar]

Pakistan can hit anywhere in India. It makes sense to have the supplies where they can get to the troops. I remember being told when i was a kid by some old singh in my local gurudwara that during one war between india/pak, the indian prime minister told the army to fall back to a position behind amritsar, but the sikh army commandeer refused and demanded he get the order in writing. The Sikh Regiment/Punjab Regiment ended up pushing the pakis back so thank god it didnt come to that. Not sure if the old singh was entirely accurate about the story as he didnt tell me which one of the wars its was. Without an arms industry in the punjab, we rely solely on the indian army. If they lose or sod off, the sikh nation would not be able to resist pakistani occupation. That alone is a reason there needs to be some kind of modern arms industry there, even if it is just personal weapons rather than anything like fighter jets, tanks etc.

That is the story of Gen Harbaksh Singh the hero of 65 war. During the 65 war, the Pakistani army was close to winning. The Hindu politicians/generals thought it wise to let the Pakistanis take over I think till river Beas. Gen Harbaksh Singh refused to follow the orders of the Hindu politicians and fought on. As kapoor Singh writes, if that had happened then not a single Sikh girl would have remained a virgin in the land occupied by the Pakistanis. In my opinion Sikhs should remember and honour the memory of Gen Harbaksh Singh. Even though this man displayed such remarkable command skills and bravery and is regarded as the reason for the defeat of the Pakistani army he was never made a full General in the Indian army, he remained a Lieutenant General yet Hindus with less qualification and experience were turned into Generals and field Marshals.

My relatives who are in Amritsar and witnessed the 65 war tell me that the Hindu/Poorbia soldiers were so terrified to face the Pakistani soldiers that many times the Hindu soldiers would come to the villagers asking for soap to eat so they can get sick and be allowed to get sick leave. Sikh soldiers WERE the reason why the 65 War was won by India.

[HSD1]

Ludhiana is a natural for that type of firearms industry. They already have quite a heavy mechanical industry there. Thing is, with the proliferation of weapons, we are likely to have a jump in murders (already the figures are high). That is something that needs to be faced. Plus honestly, no one in the centre is going to trust Sikhs with proper shasters. We are quite shabby though, would we even make anything decent?

Whether its using swords or sticking poison in curries, we sikhs will kill each other. If it's done with firearms then at least we'll know that they know how to use them. As for the quality, with the right knowledge and a few other things I'm sure they will be as good enough as anything our enemies might produce. If the pathans can do it i dont see why we cant. Hell, we were the only decently industrialised state in india before the british showed up. As for the centre, they can try and stop an illegal arms trade, but if their action against drugs is anything to go by, it shouldnt be much of a problem if there is a real demand among east punjabis for weapons. The nihangs would probably want weapons that were a little less 'ferenghi' as well.

Also, I think we need to pack in the Khalistan idea for a hundred years or so (lets just say until we number 45/50 Million, whenever that is, we can think about it then). I think spreading in India is a better idea, even if this is mostly in sehajdhari form. I was thinking we still need to access and develop Patna Sahib and Hazoor Sahib. Sikhs spread out make sthem in one way less vulnerable than a concentration, although in certain circs this has its own problems (i.e. Delhi 1984). I'm thinking we need to think of India as ours and operate like Jews in Europe. A powerful minority. We should also champion the people, get them onside instead of being ajeebly insular as we now.

It is definitely a lot more about survival than nationalism now. And this situation will only get worse. You're right, as well as tooling up we need to develop better relations with others who will end up in the same boat as us, but without bending over backwards for them like we have a habit of doing. The politics and militarisation need to go hand in hand with proselytizing. All in all, there is no one size fits all solution. Winning involves covering every corner and approaching a problem from so many directions that the momentum along with a comprehensive plan end up completely overrunning them. Not this 'shout a jaikara and let the whole world know what your doing before charging to a pointless death' attitude that we have going on at the moment.

[Kaljug]

Whether its using swords or sticking poison in curries, we sikhs will kill each other. If it's done with firearms then at least we'll know that they know how to use them. As for the quality, with the right knowledge and a few other things I'm sure they will be as good enough as anything our enemies might produce.

I think this is a skill every Sikh should have at a theoretical level (since, in practice, it's quite illegal):

http://www.amazon.com/Do-Yourself-Submachine-Gun-Durable/dp/0873648404/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267396138&sr=8-2

This one is good also:

http://www.amazon.com/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-9mm-Submachine/dp/0873649834/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

Here's a vid of a Luty gun based on the above books design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPhbdW9SxEM

Of course, you can go even more low-tech if necessary.

K.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Kaljug

[dalsingh101]

Man, if someone showed me this when I was a kid!!

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[Mithar]

I think this is a skill every Sikh should have at a theoretical level (since, in practice, it's quite illegal):

http://www.amazon.com/Do-Yourself-Submachine-Gun-Durable/dp/0873648404/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267396138&sr=8-2

This one is good also:

http://www.amazon.com/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-9mm-Submachine/dp/0873649834/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

Here's a vid of a Luty gun based on the above books design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPhbdW9SxEM

Of course, you can go even more low-tech if necessary.

K.

Interesting video. Pathans in NW frontier make their own AK47s which means if they can do it, then anyone can.

[dalsingh101]

Man, if someone had shown me this as a kid!!!!!!!

Edited February 28, 2010 by dalsingh101

[GtLoc]

A powerful minority? Someone else has that covered.

http://www.oocities.org/pak_history/brahman.html

http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/3u2QUPuXBEFPaBQXU2R8mJ/When-will-the-BrahminBania-hegemony-end.html

The first link is right about contemporary history but Idk about ancient Ill read more but some saks bs seems to be an attempt to justify pak existence. Anyway, the partition facts are correct such as gandhu getting dalits classified as hindu in order to get India. O well, I've seen Islam classified as the fastest dying religion and India's going with it. The primary core value of existence fir India is as an adversary against Islam. Indopak need each other in a sick, twisted way. Why u think Bhutto betrayed us?

[kdsingh80]

A powerful minority? Someone else has that covered.

http://www.oocities.org/pak_history/brahman.html

http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/3u2QUPuXBEFPaBQXU2R8mJ/When-will-the-BrahminBania-hegemony-end.html

The first link is right about contemporary history but Idk about ancient Ill read more but some saks bs seems to be an attempt to justify pak existence. Anyway, the partition facts are correct such as gandhu getting dalits classified as hindu in order to get India. O well, I've seen Islam classified as the fastest dying religion and India's going with it. The primary core value of existence fir India is as an adversary against Islam. Indopak need each other in a sick, twisted way. Why u think Bhutto betrayed us?

Where Islam is dying? They are now over 0.5 billion in undivided India.There birth rate is highest in entire world..It is the western world along with Japan which is dying.They are aging fast and there birth rate is poor.They will need Indians and muslims in future for cheap labour and menial jobs.

Birth rate of sikhs is also poor and to add in this lot of sikh women are marrying non sikhs and lot of sikhs are assimilating or becoming Atheists or agnostics .Its better to worry about Sikhism rather than thinking that Islam or India is dying

[GtLoc]

Iran had a birthrate drop to below fertility from 7 only decades ago. University educated muslim women have same number of kids as west but without support. Political Islam is only as strong as those who carry its banner.

[chatanga1]

iran experienced a baby boom after the revolution as Khomieni encouraged iranians to get jiggy without contraceptives, and the population rocketed in a decade. 2 years ago, the iranian govt encouraged iranian couple to be more thoughtful about their procreating habits, as the current population and its growth since the revolution was overpowering the country's resources.

[GtLoc]

Since the 1980s, Iran has experienced the largest and fastest drop
in fertility ever recorded — from about seven births per woman to fewer
than two today.

"It confounded all conventional wisdom that it could happen in one of
the world's few Islamic republics," said Jalal Abbasi-Shavazi, a
demographer at the University of Tehran.

It happened largely because of the Islamic government.

In the late 1980s, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, Iran's supreme leader, issued fatwas making birth control widely available and acceptable to conservative Muslims.

Until then, Khomeini had helped foster a baby boom to produce
soldiers for the war against Iraq. After the war, he was persuaded that
the economy could no longer support a rapidly growing population.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, however, has sought to reverse the
trend toward smaller families. Doubling the country's population of 75
million would enable Iran to threaten the West, he said.

He has denounced the contraceptive program as "a prescription for
extinction," called on Iranian girls to marry no later than 16 or 17 and
offered bonuses of more than $950 for each child. So far, he has been
widely ignored.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/population/la-fg-population-iran-20120729-html,0,4861001.htmlstory