Does Sikh Sidhant Believes In Both Free Will And Hakum?

[SAadmin]

Does sikh sidhant believes in both free will and hakum?

In my opinion, sikhi believes in both free will and hakum. There are certain karams- i believe sanchit, which this human is given power an free-will. But there are karams which are pre-ordained - parlabda karam.

Anyway, some may call it contradictory but its not contradictory at all, gurbani give updesh of both free will and following hakum to this jev-

In asa di var maharaj sings( please correct me if mistakes forgive me if any mistakes, reading it top of my head):

Apaie haithaie apaie apaie hi kaj savaraie ||

In shalok nauvan maharaj sings:

ਚਿੰਤਾ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕੀਜੀਐ ਜੋ ਅਨਹੋਨੀ ਹੋਇ ॥

chinthaa thaa kee keejeeai jo anehonee hoe ||

ਇਹੁ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਕੋ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥੫੧॥

eihu maarag sansaar ko naanak thhir nehee koe ||51||

Please discuss. State your reasons with may be gurbani quotes and sakhiya from gurughar.

[GuptSingh1699]

True. We often say everything is His will and leave to him, nowadays.

But is poverty, rapes, killings, genocide etc His Hukam? NO.

There is the Free Will too.

[Xylitol]

The more bhagti we do, the more space there is between the stimulus habits/thoughts/emotions arising from our karams and our action. This is the free will. Most people are for the most part, imo, automatons. There is very little space for free will. Those who have good karam, they have more space to act within free will.

[dalsingh101]

I've been following this ongoing 'arths' of Japji Sahib on Sikhchic.com lately.

The translater makes reference to the importance giving to listening and absorbing (the pauris starting 'suniya'.) This requires effort on our part, implying free will.

What is Sikhi other than a way of life (or vehicle) that can be used to enable us to get closer to Waheguru? Suggesting that people are preprogrammed to attain mukhti sort of diminishes the whole purpose of the dharam. Does it not?

What is the position?

There is a wider hukam but within that do we not generally have the ability for choices?

[Del Piero]

No free will would make life pointless

[laalsingh]

ਜੋਗੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਜੋਗੀਆ ॥ ਤੂੰ ਭੋਗੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਭੋਗੀਆ ॥

Difference is, Yogi realizes, it is only Him, nothing 'me'. Bhogi is mast in his false ego, ignorant of his mool, but still within Hukam. Even the pleasure seeking nature of Bhogi is within divine will. Satguru says ਇਕਨਾ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਬਖਸੀਸ ਇਕਿ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਦਾ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ॥

No free will would make life pointless

No, it wont. Hardest battle to fight is to overcome haumai. Accepting Hukam is lethal blow to haumai.

Life is not pointless. In this realm of Dharma, we jeev are here to earn Dharma. Our actions will be judged. That needs effort on our part (but again, only with His grace).

Don't mix these two levels of understanding. First Hukam, then effort with Hukam. In short, effort without accepting Hukam will only add to our haumai.

[Matheen]

This is a complex issue and seemingly, a paradox.

If Waheguru knows the future, which He does, then that implies that the future is fixed - there is only one possible outcome, because it is already known. Yet, there is karma, reaping what you sow, etc.

Waheguru is beant!

Edited March 3, 2010 by Matheen

[amritkhalsa]

Baba Hari Singh (Randhawe wale) does katha on our Karams it is about 10 hrs long. But it is very informative and goes in to great detail about free will, hakum and ones own karams. Its to much work to keep pasting the links for all 18 links so here is the main link. He does Katha from Souraj Parkash, its worth listening to it all.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio/katha/katha.php?q=f&f=%2F02_Present_Day_Katha%2FBaba_Hari_Singh_%28Randhawe_wale%29%2FLive_From_Surrey%2F03_Surrey_April_2008%2FKaram_Katha

[das]

I've copied the following from another thread on Sikhawareness:

Do we really have a "Free Will" or Kriyamana/Udham Karma?

There are three basic positions we can adopt on the question of "Free Will":

• Either we have absolute free will, or

• We have no free will at all, or

• We have a certain measure of free will.

Our "Free Will" is like the very limited freedom of a dog on a leash/chain. In other words, there is "Free Will", although its range is somewhat dictated by the past. It is because the environments around us, the relatives around us, and the situation in which we are at the moment are controlled by our past karmas. GOD created such atmosphere (based upon our karmas) and then gave us the choice: sometimes easy enough to decide and sometimes hard to decide. Our whole thinking process, habits etc. are made up from the subconscious mind and which in turns is based upon the impressions from the past karmas. In other words, the choices and decisions we make are greatly influenced by the habitual patterns of thought, feeling, and behavior arising from our past.

Actually "Free Will" is a delusion as long as one is a slave to the ego's fears and desires. As long as individuality/ego lasts there is "Free Will". "Free Will" can be exercised only when one is aware and unattached to desires, and the dualities of life, and has no ego. By cultivating vairagya (detachment) one sees beyond liking and disliking, success and failure, loss and gain, pleasure and pain, to the Truth of things. Abiding in the awareness of the Truth, one can act "freely," no longer a slave to fear or desire. Otherwise, "Free Will" is a delusion, merely a servant of egoistic desires and preferences. If karmas ("Free Will") are done without the ego, then this "Free Will" is actually the GOD's will and therefore we do NOT have to bear the results of that “Free Will”.

Any change in karma will have an influence on the ego, since what the ego can or cannot do has changed. Any change in the ego will thereby influence karma, since how such limitations are handled has changed; this effect emphasizes the idea of free will. The existence of "Free Will" is only in relationship with ego. The more egotistic a person, the more he asserts the existence of "Free Will". At the other extreme, God realized persons are the ones who have totally surrendered their ego to God and they assert there is nothing like "Free Will" and whatever exists is God's will.

God reciprocates with everyone according to their desires (good or bad) and allows them to fulfill desires generated by "Free Will". Lord uses His illusory kinetic energy called Maya to engage the living entities in good and bad acts according to their desires and their previously accumulated good and bad Karma.

[Mystical]

I believe Free Will exists but I believe its more to do with freedom of choice, the choice to choose a particular action, either good or bad. Whatever action you take takes you down a different path. Making wrong choice can lead to you down a negative path. If you can make an educated prediction of what action will lead to where, then you can avoid the "sting". Hukam would be the effects of a taken action, like a parent slapping their child when their being mischievous or not listening to them.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Mystical

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

we are all servants, free will is choosing who you wish to serve. but to choose you have to know and to know first we have to understand.