Dasam Granth Bir Prior To 1740S?

[Guest zulu]

I figured that you would do something like this. This pic is only one ang, you have given no proof of what bir this is from, or what other banis are written in that bir. It doesn't constitute any sort of proof.

May I ask what grade you are in?

hes a 15 year old kid, grade 10 on an ego trip.

[singh2]

There is a saying in punjab that says during rainy season many worms sprout from earth and with passage of rains these bugs die their natural death.This is applicable to chelas of kala afghnana and ragi darshan.They will fade out into oblivion with time but bani of our father will remain same.

Now coming to so called kid scholar's claims.Rattan Jaggi is not perfect. He is a hoax who gave one thesis and then changed it to say that Dasam Granth is by Guru sahib.In short such people work with ulterior motives.

Jaggi is lying as for as Beer patna is concerned.There are two beers at Patna one of 1698.Jaggi has not seen that beer.So your ridiculous claims about beer patna is nothing but nonsense.Beer of 1698 is there and there is no Zafarnama in that.Check from Jaggi and collect some money from kala afghana chelas to buy ticket to India and accompany me so that you shut your mouth after seeing the reality at Patna.I can arrange it.

Jaggi's bogus writings have been trashed by dr Harbhaja singh's new book that came out on Dec 5,2008.Jaggi even is giving print of fake patras in his thesis.Stay tune with current news.

Now coming to Bhai Nand lal ji's writing.Bhai nand lal ji's rehtanama specifically states

Waheguru pun mantar so jaap

kar ishanan parhe Jap, jaap

You need to know that there is a difference between the meaning of rehatnama and tankahnama.

[singh2]

belIt is Dasam Granth that says God has no name, then you slander us of saying there is no naam simran = hyprocrites? I fully believe in NAam Simran and waking up early in morning to recite Bani, as Guru says in 'Gur Satgur Ka Jo Sikh Akhae, So Bhalke Uth Har Naam Dhiavey'.

Then you are not following your guru kala afghana who says naam simran is useless.he says that there is no soul.Missionaries ridicule naam simran and also gurmantar.

Most of us don't read DG Bani's. Sikhs from one Gurdwara particularly are anti Dasam Granth to the core, and they are the oldest and most known Gurughar in Belgium. Akal Takht? Yeah right.

I have been to belgium.There are very few sikhs there.You are certainly not their representative.There are gurudwaras from Belgium whose names appeared in an advertisement in Ajit supportng akal takhat awarding punishment to ragi.

If you do not follow dasam bani then you need to form a separate sect.

Edited March 10, 2010 by singh2

[singh2]

Oh don't worry. I got pics of Zafarnama in 1698 Bir, no need to spend money and go India. Betting is bad, did you know that?

You need to grow up.There is no zafarnama in Patna beer of 1698.Your picture is fake. Take some money from kala afghana Gurudwara and put it on the line.Are you ready?

Which source say DASAM GRANTH was lost, not Vidya Sagar etc?

That so called Mani Singh Granth is fake, it has been proved earlier, and also in this post.

DG was written later and dates in the end are put as earlier than they were

You are so ignorant about sikh history.Read bansawalnama and suraj parkash.

It is your gang of akirtghans and traitros that is fake.

Why do you bother about Dasam granth sahib since you do not believe in it.How does it matter as for as you are concerned.You people are shameless who have no point to argue and yet go on arguing.

[singh2]

Suggestion to Gupt1699

Before spreading bukwas here check your sources about zafarnama being in 1698 beer.Let me say that there is no Zafarnama in Patna beer of 1698.I have seen digitized copy of this beer with a friend of mine.

Do not tout a wrong ang of Dasam granth sahib here to spread misinformation.

Edited March 10, 2010 by singh2

[singh2]

Anakh? I am not some illiterate fool like you, I won't ruin my future. We are winning case anyway. Why show sikhs as people who break law ? We can solve it peacefull way too.

The literacy level of sikhs of belgium manifests when you meet them.You are only 15 years yet.

Edited March 10, 2010 by singh2

[Satgyan-pujari]

Gupt ji

you need understand Dasam Bani of Maharaj Guru Gobind Singh ji, and not be led by the Gur nindaks. You say,

[]

(It is Dasam Granth that says God has no name, then you slander us ofsaying there is no naam simran = hyprocrites? I fully believe in NAamSimran and waking up early in morning to recite Bani, as Guru says in'Gur Satgur Ka Jo Sikh Akhae, So Bhalke Uth Har Naam Dhiavey'.)

Guru Mahraj is teaching that Wahiguru ji in the Nirgun Ek state is without any attributes of the created universes, as He is One without a second, Timeless, Boundless,Formless,Nirnamey (nameless) as in attributive names ,as He is the only One. He continues as Nirgun even when He is Sargun as mentioned in Sukhmani Sahib, as He is Omnipotent and beyond the limited budhi to understand . In Samsara we use His attributive names to worship and praise Him, this is His karam names as mentioned in Jaap Sahib. Jaap sahib IS Naam simran,but as you never have darshan of this bani, you are truly deluded.The only way we can meet/absorb, lose our haumai is to worship the Sargun swarup Shabad Bani in order to lose ourselves and become immersed absorbed in the Nirgun swarup Wahiguru.

You seriously need to study the Bani before you slander it on the opinions of nindaks and Panth dusht.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Satgyan-pujari

[chatanga1]

Which source say DASAM GRANTH was lost, not Vidya Sagar etc?

so you accept the existence of Vidya Sagar then?

[GuptSingh1699]

You guys are blind. I showed so much proof and you guys ignored it.

Guru Nanak Sahib Maharaaj was right. MOORKHAN NAAL NA LUJHIAI. You haven't read Dasam Granth or all Charitropakhyan (I read all 405 tales myself but you guys still won't believe it) yet are so blind about it.

If you can't discuss then I won't waste my time posting stuff. I proved Mani Singh Bir/Delhi Bir etc wrong. ALl you guys could say is no its not blabla... Instead of giving some reasons. You can't defend it and you know it.

Vidya Sagar granth is quite a fairy tale. I don't think Guru Ji would have compiled something to then have it lost, Guru Ji were antaryami. Why need for a secondary Granth if Guru Ji himself got our only Granth and Guru SGGS written down at Damdama Sahib?

[Xylitol]

It's quite clear that you are very young. I've noticed that when (most) very young people debate, they take something that is hardly at the level of evidence and raise it up to the level of proof in their minds. How do we know which bir that picture of just one ang is from? How can we take you at your word for it? That's not good enough in this kind of debate.

[GuptSingh1699]

Okay. I will provide more pages. But what if I do?

Fer tusi ki karonge?

[amardeep]

What is your proof that the above picture with the zafarnama comes from the 1698 bir? Have you seen the bir yourself????

And did you watch the video clip of Gurinder Singh Mann where he talks about the various early birs and editions of Dasam Bani???

[Xylitol]

What is your proof that the above picture with the zafarnama comes from the 1698 bir? Have you seen the bir yourself????

And did you watch the video clip of Gurinder Singh Mann where he talks about the various early birs and editions of Dasam Bani???

exactly, to post several pics of various angs from a granth does not prove that all the pics are from the same granth. for all we know, there could have been a newer version of the granth from which the pics are taken, and you're saying they come from an older granth.

[GuptSingh1699]

Here it is brothers and sisters:

http://thekhalsapanth.blogspot.com/2010/03/fake-so-called-dasam-granth-bir-of-1698.html

[singh2]

This guy is like a frog in a well who knows nothing about world in general.He has read distorted articles from site of phony scholar Jasbir mann about manuscripts.The truth is that this jasbir mann knows only spelling of manuscript and himself has not seen any manuscript of Dasam granth.

This phony scolar does not know how many additions and deletions were done in manuscript of SGGS ji before it was standarized? Does this chela of akirtghan kala afghana who is posting nonsense material from jasbir mann's site knows this.If not he should learn this and then post here.

There is nothing wrong with either of beers of Dasam Granth.These are genuine beers.If you look at tatkara of Beer patna of 1698 there is no zafarnama in that.

This is a group of heretics and anti sikh agents whose only work is to malign sikh history.This started with dasam granth and the main culprit was kala afghana and spokesman editor.The same editor is disowning SGGS also completely.he is saying that Beer of SGGS is fake.

So do not believe such strays.

[singh2]

see the link below of spokesman newspaper and you will see that these nastik chelas of kala afghana, darshan ragi etc are disputing SGGS also

http://rozanaspokesman.com/fullpage.aspx?view=main&yview=2010&mview=Mar&dview=16&pview=1

[singh2]

Here it is brothers and sisters:

An akirtghan and a traitor is no brother of ours.

[laalsingh]

see the link below of spokesman newspaper and you will see that these nastik chelas of kala afghana, darshan ragi etc are disputing SGGS also

http://rozanaspokesman.com/fullpage.aspx?view=main&yview=2010&mview=Mar&dview=16&pview=1

His words on Page 6 are, "Clearly these (Nirmalas and Udasis) modified Guru Granth Sahib again and again and started bad tradition of burning old birs."

This guy is a nastik. He is worse than Raagi Darshan Singh. Problem is, he owns a media and large number of people read what he says.

Anybody who makes claims of Gurbani being changed is biggest nindak of Guru. Some Vaishnavs here cliam that Singh Sabhias changed Gurbani, on the other hand these nastiks are blaming Nirmalas. Problem is they don't want to listen what Guru says and want to fit Gurbani into their own twisted ideas.

[singh2]

He was never and is not alone.He was in company with kala afghana, gurtej singh IAS, khalsa panchat and missionaries.They started with dasam granth and then sikh history.

Now they are creating doubts on authenticity of SGGS ji.That was their final mission.Now rogue organizations like Dal khalsa are condemning spokesman.When he was abusing bani of Dasam granth they were happy and rejoicing.This is the end result of these akirtghans mission.

[Mithar]

His words on Page 6 are, "Clearly these (Nirmalas and Udasis) modified Guru Granth Sahib again and again and started bad tradition of burning old birs."

This guy is a nastik. He is worse than Raagi Darshan Singh. Problem is, he owns a media and large number of people read what he says.

Anybody who makes claims of Gurbani being changed is biggest nindak of Guru. Some Vaishnavs here cliam that Singh Sabhias changed Gurbani, on the other hand these nastiks are blaming Nirmalas. Problem is they don't want to listen what Guru says and want to fit Gurbani into their own twisted ideas.

Very true for Kala Afghanists and some of the Vaishnavas here. Instead of these people trying to follow Gurbani, they are trying to discard or change any portion of Gurbani which is not in agreement with their views and predisposition. Only Guru Sahib can save his Panth from these innovators and deviators.

[GuptSingh1699]

We don't support spokesman. Joginder is as bad as you Lakhwinder. Both Guru Nindaks. One do by labelling Dasam Granth as Bani others by discarding (parts of) Guru Granth Sahib.

Inder, are you paid by post or by person you harassed? I guess its the former.

Spokesman guy wrote against Prof Darshan Singh. Shows how much they love each other.

By the way, check this:

http://khalsanews.org/

Fateh

Edited March 18, 2010 by GuptSingh1699

[singh2]

This is started by spokesman and govt agents represented by kala afghana. The gang now includes Ragi darshan lal.

These traitors are condemning banis of SGGS ji.Sikhs with common sense knew that it will eventually happen.Dumbs followed these traitors.Some out of ignorance and some for petty monetary gains.

Darshan lal had made a lot of money by singing bani of tenth master.85 percent of his recordings are from Dasam bani.But akirtghan was never satisfied and he sold himself.He is a sharabi and kababi who will change his views any time.

Enemy within is more dangerous than enemy identified. So vaishnavs who are propagating against SGGS ji are identifiable and none takes their propaganda seriously.On the otehr hand kala afghana elements are acting like fifth columnists.They are not sikhs anymore.They need to be stamped out.

[singh2]

I did not come abroad as a fake khalistani on forged documents.My parents invested in me enabling me to get professional education to be eligible for a job abroad.May be i can pay back kala afghanis masquerading as sikhs on various internet forums.

Mr lamba is a professional lawyer and was instrumental in getting akal takhat Hukamnama against RSS and getting them banned from sikh institutions.

Read below

http://santsipahi.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=112:rss-exposed-by-sant-sipahi-magazine&catid=60:rss&Itemid=85

In July 2004 Sri Akal Takhat Sahib issued a Hukamnama branding Rashtriya Sikh Sangat (RSS) as an anti-Sikh organisation and ordered the Sikhs around the world not to cooperate with this anti-Sikh organisation.

A few months later an alleged letter in the name of Sri Akal Takhat Sahib appeared where RSS was exonerated from being an anti-Sikh organisation. Sant Sipahi Magazine exposed this letter as fake and after talking to the Jathedar, Sri Akal Takhat Sahib, it became clear that no such letter was issued from the highest temporal authority of the Sikhs.

Appreciating the role of Sant Sipahi Magazine and its editor Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba, in exposing the lies being propagated by RSS, Sri Akal Takhat Sahib issued a letter of appreciation to Sant Sipahi Magazine.

Sri Akal Takhat Sahib Hukamnama on RSS

AT Hukamnana RSS 2004

Fake Letter in the name of Sri Akal Takhat Sahib

RSS Fake Letter 1

RSS Fake Letter 2

Sri Akal Takhat Sahib appreciates the role of Sant Sipahi Magazine

AT Thanks Sant Sipahi

unquote

You reject jap sahib.That disqualifies you as a sikh.What are you doing on a sikh forum?

You need to grow up first before writing bukwas here.Your guru kala afghna was implicated as a thief in India while posted as a sub inspector at jandiala Guru station. he was jailed for that. he was made to run away to canada while on bail.Then he was made a writer of so many books and propped as anti sikh icon.

Many writings were written on the pattern of a book by Rajinder Bhaiya late RSS chief " Hum Hindu hain"

Read this book and writings of kala afghana. It will not take time to know for you to be identified as a RSS agent.

Edited March 18, 2010 by singh2

[singh2]

We don't support spokesman. Joginder is as bad as you Lakhwinder. Both Guru Nindaks. One do by labelling Dasam Granth as Bani others by discarding (parts of) Guru Granth Sahib.

Joginder was the originator of this movement. He does not believe in any bani of dasam granth.You too do not believe in any bani. So in essence you are his follower.

Heretics will remain heretis.Today it is Dasam granth tomorrow it is SGGS ji.

[chatanga1]

You haven't read Dasam Granth or all Charitropakhyan (I read all 405 tales myself but you guys still won't believe it) yet are so blind about it.

You havent read it all either, if you think the 405th is a tale.