Sikhi And Non-Deistic Religions

[Kaljug]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

We all know that Sikhi respects the attainments of Bhagats from other religious traditions in India, and, I believe, teaches that these Bhagats attained the supreme goal.

But what is the Sikh perspective on the goals and attainments of non-Deistic religions (i.e., religions which do not necessarily use prema bhakti as their method of realisation)?

For example, Philosophical Daoism teaches a return to the Dao (where the Dao is usually described much the same way as Nirguna Brahman without attempting to anthropomorphise the Dao) and Buddhism urges an aspirant to attain Nirvana without attaching significance to a God-like entity or even nessarily believing in the existence of the atman.

Would a Daoist aiming for the Dao, a Buddhist meditating to obtain Nirvana, and a Sikh doing bhakti to merge with Waheguru achieve the same end result?

Regards,

k.

[amardeep]

In the Bhagavad Gita Krishan maharaj says that people will attain whatever they aim for. I think Budha is also mentioned as an avatar in Dasam Bani so i guess his path is valid to

[Silence]

jin prem kio tin hee prabh payo

[Ragmaala]

jin prem kio tin hee prabh payo

Guru Gobind Singh said everything in that one line.

[amardeep]

There is also a shabad by Baba Kabir and Guru Arjan where they say that whoever meditates with love will reach their end

[amardeep]

Krishan says

The doers of the rituals prescribed in the Vedas, the drinkers of the nectar of devotion, and whose sins are cleansed, worship Me by doing good deeds for gaining heaven. As a result of their meritorious deeds they go to heaven and enjoy celestial sense pleasures. (9.20)

They return to the mortal world ¾ after enjoying the wide world of heavenly pleasures ¾ upon exhaustion of the fruits of their good Karma. Thus following the injunctions of the Vedas, persons working for the fruit of their actions take repeated birth and death. (See also 8.25) (9.21)

[shaheediyan]

Pandit Ghulab Singhs and Bhai Gurdas Jis works cover 'Sikh' perspectives of other schools of thought, thats probably the best place to start. I believe Bhai Tirath Singh is working on a translation of Pandit Ghulab Singh Jis relevant Granth, perhaps he could comment further regarding its relevancy in this discussion.

[Matheen]

An important thing to bear in mind is that we aren't interested in heavens or swarags. Our aim is Waheguru. In fact, for a Sikh, swarag and narak are the same - we don't want to get stuck in swarag while seperated from Akaal Purkh.

[Kaljug]

I should have been more clear, I think.

I mentioned non-Deistic religions because a) their goal is above any kind of swarag, though both Daoists and Buddhists believe that it is possible to enter these levels but that these are not the end goal, the disbelief in any form of Divine Architect of the Universe means that the question of approaching their end results excludes any consideration of prema bhakti (because you need a Beloved for bhakti marg).

Perhaps a better question would have been this one: is there any difference between merging with Akal Purakh, attaining Nirvana and Return to the Dao? (I think it's clear that there is a difference between union with Akal and Hindus ending up in Shivalok, Muslims arriving in Dargah and Vikings ending up in Valhalla.)

I've read Bhai Gurdas Ji's work differentiating Sikhi from the 6 darshanas of Hindu philosophy, but as far as I recall, nothing similar written about non-Deist religions.

Regards,

K.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Kaljug

[Matheen]

It all depends on what they think the 'Dao' is. If it is 'nothingness' then they have no chance, because they have no knowledge of the atma. It is the longing of the atma to return to where it came from that we get tuned into and this leads to bairaag and prem.

Gurbani tells us in quite a few places that any form of bhagti done without prem will not get you anywhere.

[laalsingh]

He is infinite (ਅੰਨਤ) Lord. He is in accessible (ਅਗਮ). Whole range of heavens and hells is within Him. Experience could be 'nothingness', 'shivpuri', 'swarg', 'heaven', 'jannat' or even taste of virgins as per some interpretations.

Consciousness is infinite. Physical consciousness is just a tiny part. Consciousness dictates matter. These heavens and hells are within consciousness. What is gained is result of effort of physical consciousness.

As humans, physical consciousness has access to variety of emotions. It is whole specturm ranging from love, empathy, pity to lower level physical emotions like taste of toungue, sexual pleasures etc. Human birth is precious because we have capability of loving, which is the language of Beloved (ਭਾਖਿਆ ਭਾਉ ਅਪਾਰੁ). Eternal bliss is 'swarag' or avastha a Sikh aim for. Selfless love and longing for Lord (like a newly wed wife for husband or kids for father or rainbird for rain or chukvi duck for dawn or bumble-bee for lotus) is the key to reach Beloved.

Would a Daoist aiming for the Dao, a Buddhist meditating to obtain Nirvana, and a Sikh doing bhakti to merge with Waheguru achieve the same end result?

Approaching Akaal without any emotions at all and longing for Him using human emotion 'love', would it bring same result?

Apparent difference would be 'nothingness' and 'eternal bliss' ( and anything can come out of infinite sub-consciousness). Does 'nothingness' mean Nirgun Brahamn or 'shoonya'? I don't know anything more than that and He knows all. I am very content with that.