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Ragi Darshan Cronies Humbled At Anti Sikh Lehar Center,toronto


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On this issue of Dasam Garanth I asked Prof. Darshan Singh few questions. His one answer was Read it yourself and Decide.

there is a difference between reading and understanding. Do you understand all the Gurbani or Sikh literature you read Manbir Singh Ji?

Did you ask him why if Akal Takht has requested no-one to talk against DG, why he felt he was above this?

Edited by chatanga1
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No one understands everything. One has to try to understand. For a Sikh, Sikhi is a spiritual journey in which we are to keep learning.

Ok. So you quoted this to Prof Darshan Singh and asked him why he felt he didnt need to learn more about DG?

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Ok. So you quoted this to Prof Darshan Singh and asked him why he felt he didnt need to learn more about DG?

I am not there to make Prof. Darshan Singh some learned person or make him forget what he has learned. Thats his problem. Everyone has to solve his problem. I do not want to act like a bunch of donkeys being lead by some Jathedars. I do not want to be part of the puppet show of illiterate bunch of Fools. For those who relish being part of 'Bher Bakri' its their luck.

God has given every human being gray cells in his brain. Some use it, some do not know they have them!

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Guru Granth SAhib ji tells us very explicitly to learn about the Guru's teachings from the sants. All sants in Sikh history and in the present day accept Dasam Granth SAhib in its entirety. See http://khojee.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/vichaar-on-the-role-of-sants-in-sikh-dharm-summary/

Bhai Gurdass ji clearly explains nimrata as the first gunn of a Sikh. Without nimrata to accept the Guru's teachings, where will we get on this marg?

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I am not there to make Prof. Darshan Singh some learned person or make him forget what he has learned.

Nobody is asking you to Manbir Singh Ji.

What I am asking you is that the very good advice the Prof Darshan gave to you, does he act opon it himself?

If he asked you to read it did, you ask him if he has sat down and read the whole granth from beginning to end to reach this conclusion?

Or did you just walk away thinking that you had actually got an answer to your excellent question?

Edited by chatanga1
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lol if darsho rly feels we should read ourselves and decide, why is he still doing parchar? if he is to remain true to his own words, perhaps he should take back every statement against Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, and then in the future, every time he is to speak on it, limit his talks to "read it yourself and decide" and nothing more.

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Nobody is asking you to Manbir Singh Ji.

What I am asking you is that the very good advice the Prof Darshan gave to you, does he act opon it himself?

If he asked you to read it did, you ask him if he has sat down and read the whole granth from beginning to end to reach this conclusion?

Or did you just walk away thinking that you had actually got an answer to your excellent question?

Why should I ask him all this. He has to solve his problem. I am not his chella nor is he mine.

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When one lies, one has to lie to hide that lie, and then lie to hide the lie that is hiding the 1st lie, and thus the motivation of false parchaar is revealed.

You are right. We can see all around us. All organized religions face same fate. They ultimately become pack of lies very craftly decorated by the thekadars of the religion.

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lol if darsho rly feels we should read ourselves and decide, why is he still doing parchar? if he is to remain true to his own words, perhaps he should take back every statement against Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, and then in the future, every time he is to speak on it, limit his talks to "read it yourself and decide" and nothing more.

Prof. Darshan Singh is not our Guru. We do not have to agree and obey his commands. Why should we give him that much importance. We should treat him like any other person. Why should we give his utterances so much 'respect'? Dont we have our own mind ? If he says something does it mean that we have to change ourselves according to his whims?

Our Gurus have taken us out of the slavery of the clergy. We do not have to live a life of the bonded laborers of priest class. If we want to live as slaves of our priests we are still Hindus. High time we realize that our Gurus freed us from the curse of the priest class. Why can't we leave the age old habits of Hindus. Come on use your brain, think yourself and decide what is wrong and and what is not right. Everyone is entitled to his views. Be it Darshan Singh or any other Singh. No one can stop me from reading Bachittar Natak or any other Natak. If I want to read Ramayan, Mahabharat or any other Natak its my wish.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Guruship to Sri Guru Granth Sahibs Ji. So, my Guru is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Everything else is just a reading material, nothing more.

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But the 6th Guru did give us the Akaal Takth and all the organisation that it brings to our kaum.

No certainly NOT. You are absolutely wrong. "Our 6th Guru DID NOT give Akal Takht and all the organisation that it brings to our kaum" Read it carefully what you have mentioned !!

Do you really think so that our Guru gave us the Akal Takht that we have it. Think over with clear mind, you'll get the answer.

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Akaal Takht was created by the 6th Guru and two bhramgyani Sikhs. The takht itself is the platform on which the present Gurdwara stands. Despite all the disasters and attacks over the centuries, this Takht has always stood intact.

The organisational aspects were somewhat different in the post Guru period, as jathedars were made jathedar for life. But the jathedars did have the power of excommunication to enforce dharm. Maharaja Ranjit Singh himself was once almost excommunicated by the jathedar.

Anyways, I'm just responding to you, if you wish to discuss this, feel free to open up a new thread. My apologies for taking the thread off topic.

Edited by Xylitol
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Akaal Takht was created by the 6th Guru and two bhramgyani Sikhs. The takht itself is the platform on which the present Gurdwara stands. Despite all the disasters and attacks over the centuries, this Takht has always stood intact.

The organisational aspects were somewhat different in the post Guru period, as jathedars were made jathedar for life. But the jathedars did have the power of excommunication to enforce dharm. Maharaja Ranjit Singh himself was once almost excommunicated by the jathedar.

Anyways, I'm just responding to you, if you wish to discuss this, feel free to open up a new thread. My apologies for taking the thread off topic.

No where in Guru's philosophy is mentioned that we Sikhs have to dance to the tunes of some individual who happens to be some care taker of some Gurudawara. We need not waste our energy on such useless things which would take us no where. Just reread Sikh history from Guru Nanak onwards and see where this so called Takht stands. Its high time we get rid of such institutions which would land our community to bigger mess. See it where its heading. Just imagine a scenario when a person takes over this institution and declares anything that goes against our basics, like we have no need for Keshas !! What would we do? Agree to it!! because " Akal Takhat Mahan Hai". There is a limit to fooling oneself. In every religion the institutions have failed them. You do not know who would control the institution when and how.

Just see the far sightedness of our Guru, Guru Gobind Singh Ji. His level of thinking was far different than any normal human being. To make things better for us and to avoid future complications He formally gave Guruship to Sri Guru Ganth Sahib Ji. Just imagine if it was not for His great vision we would be killing and eating each other alive.

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mod note:

Precedent for Takht Sahib's superiority is clear and well established. If you wish, Feel free to provide proof for your statement using references to historical sources in a new thread..

Is Akal Takht our Guru? or is it Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ? The argument is already settled! There can be no two opinions on this.

We have to only obey our Guru. Period.

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Where does the Guru says that you have to obey the Guru?

Agree you dont have to follow the Jathedar blindly, he is not superior to Panth, but that does not mean Akal Takht is nothing. It represents the sovereignity of Sikh Panth.

Edited by ///M
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Where does the Guru says that you have to obey the Guru?

Guru does not need us. We need Him. Its up to us, to obey Him or not. Not to worry, He certainly is not going to punish us for disobeying Him. He is always merciful.

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