Sherni-E-Punjab Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 In this age and era, some surgeries such as those involving brain tumors, require head hair to be cut. What if in that case that person was an amritdhari??..Would waheguru forgive, or is it a sin that can't be erased. Recently, one of my good friends, was involved in an massive accident ( still in coma :cry: :cry: ) ..., well they did some sort of a surgery...which required for the head hair to be removed..luckily, she isn't an amritdhari. but say for an example an amritdhari was in her place, and in coma, and no control over what doctors did to him or her..so in this scenario does life come first or sikhi??.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darshan kaur Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 i believe that if this surgery is a matter of a life and death, then waheguru would allow the removing of hair to take place.... but i think the sikh would have to go to the panj pyaare on some advice before and after the surgery. keeping ur hair is not more important to waheguru, than living or leading a healthy life. He wants wots best for us 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 I would die instead of givin my hair so next life vaheguroo can give me healthy body. If you wish to do darshan of guroo gobind singh ji maharaj you must respect hair as if they are your own organs. Ask the health proffestional "How would you feel if someone is askin you we gotta do your surgery but you gotta give up your organ"? And then explain it to them Hair is my organ simple as that. This wont be sucide because you be refusin the treatment from the temporary world and you relying on vaheguroo ji. Treaments of Treaments... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 if someone is amrit dhari and they need to have surgery, obviously hairs will be cut to operate on certain areas... this is something which is outa the hands of the patient.. they cannot have surgery without havin the area shaved.. this is tottally acceptable, you will not be punished for this in anyway.. im not 100% sure but i think people in this situation retake their amrit?? i agree with neo in a way.. if i had a terminal illness id jus accept the fact that its my time to go :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaur @ gurus feet Posted July 13, 2003 Report Share Posted July 13, 2003 wjkk,wjkf akaal takat quite recently concluded this; there have been many queries reguarding hair removal in operation; 'should i retake amrit?' / 'is taking chulai enough?' / 'should i refuse the operation?' :shock: its been passed that if hair removal is done through a medical reason (operation) then it is excusable. the same goes for medicine. this can be classed as 'nashai valia cheejaa' which is a big NO in sikhi; but if our body requires it & it is being distributed via a professional, medical expert then its ok. we have a responcibility to our religion, but we also have a responcibility to our body which enables us to devote ourselves to our religion. suicide is't allowed in sikhism; well then letting yourself die of something which isn't inevitiable [ie Appendicitis ] can then also be classed as suicide,if you are aware of the situation but don't do anything about it. bhul chuk maaf wjkk,wjkf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K4ur Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 I duno - I like N3os answer best here. mmmmmmm.... dats quite hard....! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pritam Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 When i was young the Dr's at the hospital advised my parents to cut my car due to severe eczema, ok it weren't life-threatening but i wont explain the rest as im sure you can work it out. However my dad said no-chance and it was in Rub de hatha'ch. God bless him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K4ur Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 U KNOW.... for me the thing that opened and elevated Sikhi inside of me was hair... its such a suttle and pristine feature about the body - its the most delicate silk, yet the embodiment of a SIkh!!! These smiley faces shud have hair on them!!!!!!! Fateh JI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukhsingh Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 These smiley faces shud have hair on them!!!!!!! Fateh JI also dastaars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khalsa_007 Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 wahegurujee ka khalsa wahegururjee ki fathe he jee!!! bibijii if mother giving birth then over there also hair removal is there so is it a kuret and we have to be pesh near the panj pyare or we are free pls do answer thank u 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K4ur Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 yeah man - make em into liccle pplw wid Kirpan's and Karas.... Okay - i'll jus calm down then....!!!!!!!!! bub byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee--------------!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pritam Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 I'm goin to attempt making these smilies into Gursikhs this evening once im at home. Watch this space.... 8) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K4ur Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 kooooooool. This shud b interseting!!!!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 I agree with Kaur @ Guru's feet.... Although hair is very sacred...our health is just as sacred... I mean why else would God come up with these cures and surgeries through the doctors unless they were meant to be used for good...remember, that all we do is God's will, we are just His puppets, therefore all of the scientific advances made are through His grace.... If one is told that they have a tumour (God forbid this happen to anyone...) or need some life saving surgery, then they should go for it and try to fight the illness ....after all, are we not supposed to be soormay.... one should have the courage to fight and try all they might, at the end it's up to Him when it is our time... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 why would u need to remove hair from a bibi if she is giving birth? personally i would rather die than cut my hair. it sounds extreme, but true. once i was doing alot of conditioning of my shins on a wooden pole (thai boxing training) and i got a big bruise there, and i noticed there was a tiny patch where there was no hair on me leg :shock: altho most people wouldnt have seen it as a bad/big thing (as it wasnt intentional) i felt guilty for about a week :cry: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darshan kaur Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 i would hope that i would die 4 my religion..i would hope 2 b strong enuf...but i'm nt sure wot would happen if i was put in those circumstances. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r k Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 wasn't it talwinder singh parmar who chose to die rather than have his hair removed? i'm not 100% sure but i heard something about that.. SOMEONE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG i got an e-mail about how removing hair prior to surgery might actually be a BAD thing ... ill post that when i find it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r k Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 ok, read this. From Ishwinder Singh Sent Monday, June 16, 2003 11:26 am To SAI Subject Pre-operative Shaving- A Dispensable Ritual in Surgery -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Abstracts of Sikh Studies- April 1997 Pre-operative Shaving- A Dispensable Ritual in Surgery Dr. Ujagar S.Dhaliwal INTRODUCTION Pre-operative shaving of the operation area is in practice since the dawn of modern surgery in the last century. Although exact origin of this is not well documented, it has been due to: - aesthetic reasons, - to prevent hair fall in the wound, - to prevent hair being entangled in sutures, - inconvenience to give incision, - prevent infection of the wound, - prevent the possibility of formation of sinus, etc., etc. In early seventies, it was observed by Seropian et al that pre-operative hair shaving influences the infection rate of the wounds, and trauma caused by razor is responsible for increased infection rate, because the minor abrasions caused by razor injury were acting as good medium for growth of bacteria at the operation site. Even non-visible razor injuries were found responsible for increased infection rate as compared to those areas which needed no shaving because of natural lack of hair especially in females. Interestingly, it was further observed by Seropian et al that timings of shaving before surgery also had direct effect on wound infection rate, i.e, it was 20% if shaving was done more than 24 hours before surgery, 7.1% if it was done upto 24 hours and 3.1% when it was done immediately before surgery on the operation table after induction of anaesthesia (Powis et al 1976). To eliminate this trauma by shaving, other materials like clipping of hair and depilation of hair by hair removing cream were used which gave tremendously good results reducing the infection rate to 0.6% (Cruse and Foord, 1973; Court Brown, 1981). But inspite of all this, no surgeon has stopped shaving as a routine. It was long back in 1985, when I was personally advised by a saintly person, Sant Kahla Singh of Gurdwara Jyoti Swaroop Jandiala Guru, not to shave his hair for a hernia operation. Hesitantly, I did his operation through quite a good growth of hair and was surprised to see that his wound healed up absolutely without any problem. However, I could not make up my mind to practice this in ordinary patients, although in many Amritdhari Sikhs, I performed operations as such on their request without shaving with good results, which further encouraged me to perform surgery on Amritdhari Sikhs without shaving and with no ill effects. It was in early 1994 that I took up this problem as a research project under a controlled study on scientific principles on 50 male patients undergoing abdominal surgery. This has been completed on August 9, 1996. The patients were advised to take good bath before taking them to the operation table without shaving. The operation field was prepared by Betadine 5%. Incision was given through the growth of hair and wound was closed after surgery as usual and dressing was done. FOLLOWING OBSERVATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE - All the patients were males above 20 years of age with black hair. - Almost all types of operations were done, like Hernia (12), Appendicetomy (9), Cholecystectomy (6), Laparotomy (7), Ureterolithotomy (4), Prostatectomy (6), Spleenectomy (1), Partial Gasterectomy (1), Highly Selective Vagotomy (1), Cystogastrostomy (1) and Varicocele (1). - Only one patient got wound infection and all others had very good wound healing without any sinus or abcess formation. The length and population of hair, site and length of incision and duration of operation also had no specific effects. There was some inconvenience in giving incisions in patients with long and thick growth of hair, but falling of hair in the wound, if any, did not produce any bad effects. Wound closure was also done without any problem. The only problem faced was the removal of sticking plaster on the dressing at the time of stitch removal or change of dressing of wounds, which was quite painful. After the excellent results of this study, I am now performing surgery with the hair intact and without any difficulty. Hundreds of operations have been performed under these conditions. This has many times rewarded me with very good remarks from the Sikh patients especially Amritdharis, and I will strongly recommend to all surgeons not to shave the hair before surgery, especially on Sikhs, to avoid their sentimental trauma which is true as per scientific principles. REFERENCES 1. Seropian R; Reynolds BN. : Wound infection after pre-operative depilatory versus Razor preparation. Am. J. Surg. 121-1971,251-253 2. Powis SJA; Waterworth.; Arkell, CG. : Pre-operative skin preparation : Clinical evaluation of depilatory cream. Br. Med. J. 21166-1168, 1976 3. Cruse, PJE; Ford. R. : A five year prospective study of 23,649 surgical wounds. Arch. Surg. 107.1973-206-210 4. Court-Brown, C.M. : Pre-operative skin depilation and its effects on post-operative wound infection. J.R. Coil. Surg. Edin 26-238-241-1981 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kaur1699 Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Fateh Ji, The post above made by rk Ji goes to show that there is no need to remove kes as far as having any form of surgery is concerned... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Singhni Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh I respect everyone's beliefs, but at the same time I think this decision is more of a personal preference. I know we should all respect our kesh, and N30 singh jee, i respect u immensly for your decision, however just a few questions. What happens when we wear big karras on our wrists and some of the hair comes off in those areas... and what happens if we get rug burn and some hair burns off with that? It is quite common that when a woman goes into labour, hair is removed in the process of child birth. I think personally i wouldn't do pesh for something like child birth. Mahraj has given me a duty to add to our panth, and whatever needs to be done, should be done. Obviously it's wrong to intentionally cut our kesh, but at the same time, in situations that can't be avoided, it should be the individual's choice whether they think it's wrong or right to have the hair removed. Bhul Chuk Muaf, Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 when u wear big kara's i doubt u intend to take your hairs off 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Singhni Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh "when u wear big kara's i doubt u intend to take your hairs off" That's exactly what i mean, Singh Jee, If you dont intend to take hair off, or if you take it off for your health, and you're not purposely trying to destroy your rehit, then is it such a big deal? What do you think? Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh "when u wear big kara's i doubt u intend to take your hairs off" That's exactly what i mean, Singh Jee, If you dont intend to take hair off, or if you take it off for your health, and you're not purposely trying to destroy your rehit, then is it such a big deal? What do you think? Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh if u can prevent it from happening, then i suppose u should do something about it, and prevent such a big deal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simi Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 imho- i agree with the people on this thread that say it is all right to remove hair in extreme cases like surgery. When having surgery such as removing a brain tumor, they sometimes dnt ask your consent because they make think you are incompitent to make the decision- therefore they just do it- the patient sometimes aint got a choice. Also again Guru Ji would want us to be healthy and well and i feel waheguru would forgive us for hair removal in extreme cases. A family member was diagnosed with cancer and they had to have chemotherepy- she was a mother of 2- and an amritdhari and she had the treatment as is now happy and well- would you say she sinned??? she fought like a sighni against a disease that would have destroyed her family and left her children without a mother. She is now growing back her hair and it is already shoulder length. IMHO- waheguru makes our hair grow back to a certain length as a sign of forgiveness- as in everyone can make a clean start- and it aint a sin as it grows back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaur @ gurus feet Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 wjkk,wjkf sikhism is a practical religion; :? ppl need to get away from this 'wrathful god' ideology. bhul chuk maaf wjkk,wjkf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.