Emotional Video..of True Story

[bhooliya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm-jwTSdz2Y

[dalsingh101]

Is anyone (in the UK) actually surprised by this anymore?

[bhooliya]

Girl is only 15 years old as per mother. Guy would have been in prison for having sex with minor in USA.

[dalsingh101]

If you have daughters/sisters in the UK, you have to have certain deep conversations with them, although even this is no guarantee against this happening. It's no use being conservative like many apnay are.

Sometimes parents have absolutely no clue about the 'internal life' of their children, especially the girls. Strange thing is that I've seen/heard of a few similar cases where the person has done this, despite being very high achieving academically.

For 15 years people have been trying to highlight this (to my knowledge), yet still it happens.

Are we still in denial in the UK? Does the shame, embarrassment, loss of izzat involved in such scenarios lead to families generally sweeping matters under the carpet?

Edited May 2, 2010 by dalsingh101

[Mithar]

This is just shocking. I hope that girl and her child comes back to her family.

[bhooliya]

I don't think parents can catch up with the technology? Is there a possibility that Muslim extremist youth is getting money to ruin girls of other faiths? I have read of Love Jihad in India

... I believe that parents may have no choice but send their daughters to school in India under strict supervision? http://www.miripiriacademy.org/

In America, one man is running organization such as http://www.jihadwatch.org/about-robert-spencer.html ...

[dalsingh101]

I believe that parents may have no choice but send their daughters to school in India under strict supervision?

This will not happen.

Firstly many families can't afford it. Secondly, you can only hide from this stuff for so long.

Hows about this for consideration. Imagine if that girls family had 2/3 uncles and 2/3 brothers/cousins, who could fight and proper battered the sullah for taking liberties. And then battered any other 'Muslim heroes' that may come to his later defense.

The family probably couldn't do this because they have been telling the boys in their family to study and stay out of trouble their whole life.

I know some Sikh families would have gone ape shit under these circs and had the converting guy came round with the girl (like the mum describes) would have probably have caused him serious harm and face the prison time. Some families are cool with making sacrifices like that.

[Mithar]

This will not happen.

Firstly many families can't afford it. Secondly, you can only hide from this stuff for so long.

Hows about this for consideration. Imagine if that girls family had 2/3 uncles and 2/3 brothers/cousins, who could fight and proper battered the sullah for taking liberties. And then battered any other 'Muslim heroes' that may come to his later defense.

The family probably couldn't do this because they have been telling the boys in their family to study and stay out of trouble their whole life.

I know some Sikh families would have gone ape shit under these circs and had the converting guy came round with the girl (like the mum describes) would have probably have caused him serious harm and face the prison time. Some families are cool with making sacrifices like that.

Dal Singh Jee, you have a valid point. I think what you are proposing is very difficult for the Punjabi Sikhs living in the UK. As a Punjabi born and raised in India and currently living in Canada my observation of UK Sikhs is that they are 3rd generation Indians living in the UK. They are as Goray as Goray are in terms of their values are concearned. They have very little Punjabi instincts left in them. If a Pakistani had done this in Canada or US, it is very likely that Pakistani would have ended up in the hospital.

I remember a year ago someone posted a news story on this forum about how a young Punjabi man in the UK took revenge when his sister got married to a Hindu guy against the wishes of her family. I remember how everyone, especially the UK folks here began condemning him by calling him all sorts of names which only reflect how distant the Punjabi Sikhs have become from Punjabi culture and traditions. Seeing as how Goray the Punjabi Sikhs have become I don’t see how Punjabi Sikhs in UK can face Pakistanis.

[kdsingh80]

The people that are rich,live in urban cities,educated

do white collar jobs become soft.they use more brain than brawn.

[dalsingh101]

Mithar

I think the softening is as much the result of a community-wide overemphasis of material wealth as becoming gorafied. A minority of families have still kept their anakh however (not nearly enough though).

Another factor to consider is that the sullay themselves maybe specifically targeting families where the menfolk are quite timid or genteel.

There are other important things to grasp too. Like the revaaj or choosing your own partner in the west and the fact that there does seem to be added attraction between people across races/communities, probably down to some inherent exoticism factor at play.

This is where an overemphasis on material/economic success comes to bite you on the arse, when you don't have men who can face off ill intentioned men of other quoms or even those haramis from within our own. I know not all guys are born with the physical or mental qualities that help in katapa situations, but neglecting this thing can cost a family dearly.

[dalsingh101]

The people that are rich,live in urban cities,educated

do white collar jobs become soft.they use more brain than brawn.

That is simply not true. We have masses of 'white collar' Sikhs in the Uk, where are these 'brains' being used to combat antiSikh forces then?

Edited May 4, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

That is simply not true. We have masses of 'white collar' Sikhs in the Uk, where are these 'brains' being used to combat antiSikh forces then?

I think you have misunderstood my post.I am not saying they use brain to counter anti sikh force .What I am saying is they use brain.It means they use it more for their career and education.When a person starts using his Brain then their is hardly any chance he could threaten or Fight physically.He may start thinking more about consequences, like can i really beat him?.What happens if Police arrive? will i have to spend days in prison.etc Also there is good chance that these brainy people adopt feminist ,western liberal values

[bhooliya]

This problem cannot be solved by violence but with good strategies. How many families can go on war against extremists and losers? I don't think many families are there to fight them. If you are tough it may make some difference but it won't have major impact. The problem is media which is just brainwashing masses. There was a time in India when Sikh girls and Hindu girls won't even think about going out with a Muslim man. Now it's very normal because Shahrukh Khan, Aamir Khan and also Salman Khan on the big screen showing how loving they are...

You ask a Sikh girl who is your favorite personality in Sikh history and she has no answer. You ask her who is your favorite star from Indian movies, Shahrukh Khan. I am not against any of these Khans but movies are not for entertainment anymore. They are there to spread propaganda and personal bias. You know once we had this one-on-one talk with this fellow American. He was kind of racist so told us if you live in USA, you should just follow American culture... I told him dude there is only one culture in America and that is Agriculture, rest is not an American culture. We got Scottish, German, Italian, Mexicans, Irish cultures and I am not willing to take their cultures as mine. I love USA as country but it has no one culture. We can respect their cultures but not adopt

We have our own Sikh culture which is more advanced than any of the cultures. You have come to known tobacco is injuries to health now but Sikh Gurus have preached long time ago and warned few hundred years back. Once you start following Sikh culture, you feel proud to have the world's most advanced culture.

[kdsingh80]

The problem is media which is just brainwashing masses. There was a time in India when Sikh girls and Hindu girls won't even think about going out with a Muslim man. Now it's very normal because Shahrukh Khan, Aamir Khan and also Salman Khan on the big screen showing how loving they are...

What about Girls? If Khans dominate the bollywood then Katrina and many other muslim heroines too now dominate

bollywood.How many muslim Girls try to copy them?

[dalsingh101]

Solely blaming Bollywood for this stuff is wrong. Sure it may be a factor in some cases but girls who never watch Bollywood also do the same. Sometimes a more western 'Westside story' syndrome could also drive matters for instance. Poor self esteem, extreme naivety due to excessive sheltering, low IQ or being spoilt (as many Panjabi kids are) can also be strong factors for such things.

One thing I now believe is that academic performance is absolutely no indication of how socially intelligent a girl can be. The amount of high achieving apneean who end up in the most twisted of relationships with older - ill intentioned men is unreal. There are many such cases in the East End.

[dalsingh101]

We have our own Sikh culture which is more advanced than any of the cultures. You have come to known tobacco is injuries to health now but Sikh Gurus have preached long time ago and warned few hundred years back. Once you start following Sikh culture, you feel proud to have the world's most advanced culture.

Whilst I admire your 'maan' at being Sikh I think the more balanced picture isn't so rosey. I agree on paper Sikhi is a very advanced and enlightened way of life, on ground level however the community is home to some of the most backward revaajs going. Female foeticide, alcoholism, materialism, human Guru worship, suicides, girls running off, drug addiction are all visible features of what is going on amongst us now. Our communities current state doesn't reflect our advanced culture one bit in my opinion. We have a lot to do. Plus the amount of our people back home who are living very simple/unsophisticated lives, barely surviving, don't warrant grand statements on our part in my opinion.

No offence intended Bhooliya, just calling it like I see it.

[shaheediyan]

Even in India today, many families abide by the law i.e. they won't take their daughter out of education, give her a beating and get her married off to the next no hoper idiot they see. What is being totally ignored here is secular law, the girl has every right to date/marry who ever she likes, both in India and in the West. Beating up her boyfriend is only going to make him a marytr in her eyes and probably seal the deal.

The 'fight' is right in other circumstances i.e. abduction etc, but not for purely dating, not in the UK.

What is needed is intelligent education, not 'all Muslims are Evil'. I have known families who have tried the 'boogieman' method, and who used to go Paki bashing, and their one sisters still ran away and married Muslims.

Sikhi parchaaar is needed, not once a week trip to the Gurdwara and teaching the names of 10 Gurus, I mean taking up real Sikh learning, Santhiya, Raag Kirtan, high end martial training, involvment in real Seva etc, establishing quality sangat.

Sadly (however much people deny it or sight the odd rare exception) the large part of cases happen in modernist or pindu Punjabi households where Sikhi plays little role.

People forget that many girls also run away with kalai, security types/drug dealers, all sorts, who treat them as little more than additional whores.

The large part of educated Sikh girls who marry outside Sikhi, I notice marry gorai (well to do/educated). So the 'girl' problem is much wider than people think. I haven't even touched on the single most largest ethnic group that abuse and use our girls, apne.

Prevention is the cure, bring your girls up to have knowledge, of Sikhi and of worldly ways, so nothing comes as a surprise to them, its usually the unexpected that draws girls away from their homes.

[shaheediyan]

Dalsingh touches on some valid points, the amount of alchoholic household in our Panth is sickening. When a girl meets a guy who doesn't drink, in fact a guy who hates alcholol, she sees this as a God-send. These real core reasons for why girls leave the home are seldom spoken of, because as per the rest of the human race, blame always lies with someone else.

[dalsingh101]

Beating up her boyfriend is only going to make him a marytr in her eyes and probably seal the deal.

Depends how well you do the job I guess. In any case, if she is going anyway, at least you get the (albeit minor) comfort of knowing you made a strong point to romeo beforehand. It might not mean much to you, but it would to a lot of other Panjabis. lol. Anyway, your post may well highlight how spot on Mithar was with his earlier post on how gorafied many apnay have become in the UK.

If you watch the video, the mom says the girl wasn't unaware of her culture, so your post isn't really valid. Besides I know of umpteen cases of non 'modern' apneean from 'respectable' families which regularly go Gurdwara, do nitnem as a norm. Go Sikhi camp etc. etc. have loving supportive families and still do this. If that mom is telling the truth, then it is a true example of a 'Muslim boogieman', as you put it.

By the way, I like the way you use some foolish apnay having negative relationships with apneean as some sort of justification for underhand targeting and grooming by others. Like some (yes some!) Sikh boys acting stupid gives a green light for other blokes to take liberties. You talk like we have a disproportionate amount of Sikh boys that want to run around and abuse apneean. This is bullshit.

Asides from the more insidious moves by sullay, the other factor we should be aware of is the perspective that women are essentially programmed to look for the best security for their offspring. The reason so many may be running off with goray today could be the fact that these people often have an advantage over others in a subtly racist business world. By taking a successful gora partner, the girl may have access to better resources and security, and more freedom in certain ways. In other cases a girl will go for some 'tough guy'because she perceives him as being able to provide her physical security better than others.

I'm not blaming pakis for everything, but believe you me, MANY of the types that target apnnean specifically exist. Detracting from this, with other matters, like you do, is plain wrong Shaheediyan.

Edited May 29, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

One thing I now believe is that academic performance is absolutely no indication of how socially intelligent a girl can be. The amount of high achieving apneean who end up in the most twisted of relationships with older - ill intentioned men is unreal. There are many such cases in the East End.

You are absolutely right academic on any acheivement of Girl is no indication how intelligent a Girl is.Infact in India high acheiving girls are the one that are marrying outside religion much more than less acheiving.

Well many traditions have written different things

about mentality of women which is nearly impossible to understand.What goes in their mind only they know on the other hand boys are quite straight forward.

[dalsingh101]

You are absolutely right academic on any acheivement of Girl is no indication how intelligent a Girl is.Infact in India high acheiving girls are the one that are marrying outside religion much more than less acheiving.

Well many traditions have written different things

about mentality of women which is nearly impossible to understand.What goes in their mind only they know on the other hand boys are quite straight forward.

Chatrio pakyaan mate. Helps a lot to explain these things!

[shaheediyan]

Calm down, I did not say fanatic/romeo Muslims do not exist, I simply said that their agenda is not the single issue, Punjabi lifestyle (sharabi), lack of Dharma and umpteen other things are also a factor in many cases.

Your claim that you know umpteen practicing Sikhs that run off is the admin cut and bull story matey. There has only been less than a handful of these that have happened, and that is well known, speak to the promoters i.e. Shere Punjab if you don't believe me.

You are pretty much saying that a Gursikh lifestyle isn't enough to secure bibek budhi and respect in a girl, get your head out of the sand.

It's this scaremongering, trying to put all people in one boat and not disecting the issue and looking for the real causes that is going to ensure there is no improvement in this area.

Go to any Uni bhangra gig to see how apne treat our girls, nothing has changed in 20 years. This is the same territory that the fanatics or advantage takers 'look and learn' from apne.

The fact of the matter is that many Muslim youth, just like kalai, gorai and apne, live in a hip hop culture, and try and emulate their MTV heroes by becoming "players" (however its spelt). Add to this some historic national and religious hate in some cases and hey presto.

I have seen hundreds of apne target and treat goriyan the same way, that's ok I suppose, maybe because they apparently 'ask for it'...?

You can beat up the villains, but it ain't gonna bring the girl back home.

This isn't about being a man, the historic cases of abduction in Khalsa times cannot be compared to girls today willingly choosing to date Muslims, gorai or kalai what have you, hence the same historic approach is invalid.

Your unaware of culture point is useless, I am talking about Dharma being the key, not rvaaj. Rvaaj in all honesty means jack, unless it is based around Dharma.

Anyway, I am not interested in having a punch and judy show with my fan club, I was actually trying to highlight some issues which generally get ignored. Don't mistake my lack of Neanderthal/testostrone overdrive approach as being some sort of indicator of ignorance or weakness, it is not. I am more interested in actually talking about the subtle truths than getting a pat on my back from the popularist vote.

If you are going to take the historic Punjabi/sterotype Jatt approach, you may as well advocate honor killings whilst your at it, that will really ensure you don't get mistaken for a 'gora'. You see, this is something the aforementioned on both sides of the border have in common.

[dalsingh101]

If you didn't jump on the 'horse of superciliousness' so quickly Shaheediyan, you might even realise that maybe our respective positions aren't so different. Both of us recognise that the causal factors for the issue under discussion are both internal and external. Did I not mention a host of other factors I believe influence matters above? Wake up, I'm not trying to blame pakis for everything. But I do point out what they are responsible for and you keep playing it down? I spent a lot of time around Walthamstow years ago, and got to see quite a bit of the predominant Pakistani society there. I know them well, especially the fundo types. Quite a few guys went that way in the area.

You are totally off the mark with your assertions about apnay though. If some apnay and apneean are having less than wholesome relationships that doesn't give the green light to others to jump in. By your logic, white men with their general permissiveness towards sex/relationships towards their women means that predatory sullay are justified in targeting gorian then? In any case I'm not trying to defend any apnay targeting gorian, but even when they do this, they are usually kaam driven and not on some mission to strike at an enemy community like you know who do. You're talking about chalk and cheese mate. Those brothers need education and restraint, but asides from fulfilling their kaam, they don't have a wider agenda. Not that this makes what they do right, but get the difference. It is like you struggle with nuances?

And your other point about girls from religious backgrounds not doing such things is bullshit. It may not be an epidemic but it is certainly more than a handful of cases. Those types of families are the ones that hide it the most anyway. Their are a few cases in East London, and these girls don't just run off with sullay but kalay also. Just because these stories don't reach the wider sangats or SPs notice, doesn't mean they aren't happening. This is no slur on Sikhi either! More so conservative, inert 'neo-Sikhi' that many families practice which doesn't resonate internally with their children. Maybe this is related to that dharam thing you mention.

Anyway, I am not interested in having a punch and judy show with my fan club, I was actually trying to highlight some issues which generally get ignored. Don't mistake my lack of Neanderthal/testostrone overdrive approach as being some sort of indicator of ignorance or weakness, it is not. I am more interested in actually talking about the subtle truths than getting a pat on my back from the popularist vote.

What fan club are you talking about? This site has a handful of regulars, and most of those seem strongly independent minded. If anyone was looking for a populist pat on the back, this would be the last place to fish for it. Stop making silly statements like that.

I do think you are being ignorant and apathetic by the way. Not all of us are trying to shift all blame on pakis but at the same time, I won't play down what some of them are doing. There are other factors at play, I mentioned some above so please don't try and make out anyone highlighting this stuff is some 'Pakiphobe' or Islamophobe.

If you are going to take the historic Punjabi/sterotype Jatt approach, you may as well advocate honor killings whilst your at it, that will really ensure you don't get mistaken for a 'gora'. You see, this is something the aforementioned on both sides of the border have in common.

There is nothing wrong with differentiating ourselves from goray - or more accurately goray revaajes. Although I can't believe I'm saying this, there are times when that stereotypical Jatt/Panjabi response is appropriate, warranted and a damn good idea! Sadly, the brothers only seem to use it to keep a grip of Gurdwara resources and other foolish materialistic purposes these day, like settling theological differences with others.

PS - We are majorly different from those across the border, even people with the same caste history and historical family lineage.

We can't be arguing between ourselves like this dude. It's weak. We have to learn to meet in the middle. In any case you seem to argue points even when we are largely in agreement. You need to check that.

[laalsingh]

Everybody has own priorities

Mother: worried about girl's future like a mother should be. She is hurt. Somebody stole piece of her heart and treating it like dirt.

Girl: just turned 16. She is javaan now. Body has requirements. Like a typical teenager, her mind too wanders around.

Paki Sullah: Typical player. He knows how to play young naive teenager girls. Plus big bonus is she is Sikh. Historical grievances, inferiority complex add to masala. She is like a trophy.

Me and some forum members: Sikh pride got hurt. Want to kick some paki ass, but this is a country with rule of law. We must find other ways to settle score with pakis.

[tonyhp32]

I agree with Dalsingh101, the Punjabi/Jat type response is probably what is missing in most of these cases. If the predatory Musla knew that the girl had brothers/cousin brothers who would kick his arse then he wouldn't have made the girl a target. We can go on about how a girl might be attracted by a Musla not drinking but a musla knowing that his life might be at risk if he messes with a Sikh girl would put an end to over 50% of these cases. Our friend is quick to bring out a case when some anti-Musla Sikhs' sister ran off with a Musla but how many sisters of Sikhs who thought Muslay are great people ran off with Muslay?

Another problem is the Muslaphile Sikhs who whenever Muslims are criticised, they leap to their defence and bring out the same rehash of 'not all muslay are like that' 'my muslay friends aren't like that' 'my mate mohammed said islam is a religion of peace' blah blah blah. These Muslaphiles forget that our ancestors survived only because they knew what the musla mindset is like. Some might want to restrict these common sense notions of what a Musla is like to be time specific but they are there for all time.

Edited May 4, 2010 by tonyhp32