Banda Singh Bahadur Commemorations

[singh2]

It is a deiversion of thread.still basic info is provided.

http://www.thesikhencyclopedia.com/sikh-political-figures/bandai.html

BANDAI, Posted in Biographical - Sikh Political figures

BANDAI, name given to the followers of the Sikh hero, Banda Singh Bahadur (1670-1716), who regarded him not only as a military leader but also as Guru next to Guru Gobind Singh in spiritual succession. They were opposed and ultimately expelled in 1721 by the mainstream of the Sikhs, the Tatt Khalsa. A small number of Bandai Sikhs still survive. They reverence the Guru Granfh Sahib as their Scripture and most of them also undergo the Khalsa initiatory rites, but Banda Singh Bahadur is for them their eleventh Guru against the common Sikh belief of the spiritual line having ended with Guru Gobind Singh, the Tenth Master.

References :

1. Gian Singh, Giani, TwarUch Guru Kha/sa. Patiala, 1970

2. Cunningham, Joseph Davey, A History of the Sikhs. London, 1849

3. Ganda Singh, Life of Banda Singh Bahadur. Amritsar, 1935

4. Nripinder Singh, The Sikh Moral Tradition. Delhi, 1990

[singh2]

Bandai sikhs formation was in life time of Banda.That is why there was a Hukamnama from mata sunder kaur.

One need to see unsikh practices in the dera of Baba Banda bahadar in kashmir. That is why some Hindu organizations

project him as Beer bairagi which is injustice to him as he was an amritdhari sikh.

Chatanaga ji, there is no fire without fuel.

[amardeep]

I agree with Chatanga. Having a chaur sahib over his head does not mean that he considered himself to be Guru, nor does changing the bana or advocating veggie diet. What are the reasons given in Mata jis hukamnamas against Baba ji?

[singh2]

I agree with Chatanga. Having a chaur sahib over his head does not mean that he considered himself to be Guru, nor does changing the bana or advocating veggie diet. What are the reasons given in Mata jis hukamnamas against Baba ji?

You need to read the link given above.The reason is given in the reference of the link to sikh encyclopedia in my previous post.

http://www.thesikhencyclopedia.com/sikh-political-figures/bandai.html

BANDAI, Posted in Biographical - Sikh Political figures

BANDAI, name given to the followers of the Sikh hero, Banda Singh Bahadur (1670-1716), who regarded him not only as a military leader but also as Guru next to Guru Gobind Singh in spiritual succession. They were opposed and ultimately expelled in 1721 by the mainstream of the Sikhs, the Tatt Khalsa. A small number of Bandai Sikhs still survive. They reverence the Guru Granfh Sahib as their Scripture and most of them also undergo the Khalsa initiatory rites, but Banda Singh Bahadur is for them their eleventh Guru against the common Sikh belief of the spiritual line having ended with Guru Gobind Singh, the Tenth Master.

References :

1. Gian Singh, Giani, TwarUch Guru Kha/sa. Patiala, 1970

2. Cunningham, Joseph Davey, A History of the Sikhs. London, 1849

3. Ganda Singh, Life of Banda Singh Bahadur. Amritsar, 1935

4. Nripinder Singh, The Sikh Moral Tradition. Delhi, 1990

Edited May 23, 2010 by singh2

[SAadmin]

I agree with Chatanga. Having a chaur sahib over his head does not mean that he considered himself to be Guru, nor does changing the bana or advocating veggie diet. What are the reasons given in Mata jis hukamnamas against Baba ji?

Why is it chaur sahib over baba banda singh bahudar ji is acceptable and chaur sahib over baba khem singh bedi all of sudden becomes ghor maha beadhi?

[amardeep]

I never said it was beadbi in the case of Baba Khem Singh bedi?

However, using Chaur Sahibs, matha dekh etc. are all cultural actions, not religious. It was the way to greet and respect kings and leaders of the past which is why i would'n nescesarely say it was a problem to chaur sahib Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and other leaders... To do it today, where we dont chaur sahib our leaders anymore could be a problem in the eyes of some, as it is not a part of our contemporary culture to chaur sahib leaders in panjab and delhi etc.

[dalsingh101]

SO Baj Singh had become a Bandai Khalsa hence his remaining with Banda Singh to the end and Binod Singh was a Tat Khalsa. Interesting.

The issue with the supposed 'vaisnav' diet is also curious. Banning onions and garlic for instance. Plus the Persian reference to all animal slaughter being banned after a conquest of a town (if I recall rightly).

That being said, his bravery and the way he shook up Moghul authority, as well as his stoicism at death are no small things. I think it was him who caused the switch from Sikhs being considered a relatively minor problem in the Mog empire to their being considered a serious military threat.

[amardeep]

When it comes to the satvic tatvic diet is'nt it said that onions and garlic promotes demonic behavior? Being in war it is important to be saintly (sant sipahi). Would'n it make sense that Banda Singh Bahadur would encourage people to stop eating these things, so that he could recruit them as soldiers once he got to Panjab some months later, and prevent huge major massacres on civilians.

Edited May 23, 2010 by amardeep

[dalsingh101]

When it comes to the satvic tatvic diet is'nt it said that onions and garlic promotes demonic behavior? Being in war it is important to be saintly (sant sipahi). Would'n it make sense that Banda Singh Bahadur would encourage people to stop eating these things, so that he could recruit them as soldiers once he got to Panjab some months later, and prevent huge major massacres on civilians.

If the Gurus never appeared to have any issues with Sikhs eating onions and garlic, it's hard to explain, no?

Edited May 23, 2010 by dalsingh101

[singh2]

However, using Chaur Sahibs, matha dekh etc. are all cultural actions, not religious. It was the way to greet and respect kings and leaders of the past which is why i would'n nescesarely say it was a problem to chaur sahib Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and other leaders... To do it today, where we dont chaur sahib our leaders anymore could be a problem in the eyes of some, as it is not a part of our contemporary culture to chaur sahib leaders in panjab and delhi etc.

Amardeep

Banda singh was sent under a supreme council by Guru sahib.

Gursikhs are gurbhais and they do not make otehrs to do chaur over their head.

Maharaja was king whereas Banda was not a king. Moreover Maharaja did not change

Khalsa salutation which we still have legacy of our Guru sahib. Banda did change that.

Edited May 24, 2010 by singh2

[Xylitol]

onion and garlic increase vikaars. the ban has nothign else to do wiht anything.

[amardeep]

Ok so we can agree he changed the salution hence he is not perfect, however I still need to see evidence that he claimed Guruship.

Bad mouthing him in the sense that he changed some innocent aspects of the rehit makes me ask what we do with groups such as AKJ, Nanaksar etc that also has a seperate rehit...

Edited May 24, 2010 by amardeep

[dalsingh101]

Bad mouthing him in the sense that he changed some innocent aspects of the rehit makes me ask what we do with groups such as AKJ, Nanaksar etc that also has a seperate rehit...

Who is bad mouthing him?

Entertaining the thought that some aspects of his leadership might have been complicated or even controversial within the panth at that time is no sin, inspite of overzealousness on the part of some brothers who claim contrary. Especially as old granths based on oral traditions seem to suggest as much (I'm not saying they are infallible).

Edited May 24, 2010 by dalsingh101

[amardeep]

Early sikh literature does'nt seem to be very fond of him due to these small and minor changes

[amardeep]

On a site note, where did he get his military training from? Did he participate in the battles himself or was he a commander making tactics etc.

[dalsingh101]

Early sikh literature does'nt seem to be very fond of him due to these small and minor changes

Maybe they just reflect or project Tat Khalsa perspectives of the time?

Anyway, it shouldn't shock us. Look at Sant Jarnail Singh. Do you know how many Sikhs (including pacifist Amritdharis) I have heard slagging him off over the years. Think a few generations down the line when everyone contemporary or near contemporary to him will have died and he will be another addition to the long lines of unflinching warrior saints with less raw emotion attached to his name than now. There is some parallel with BSB.

[amardeep]

interesting comparison. true

[chatanga1]

BSB was a Rajput and his early life was spent in acquiring the lifestyle of Kshatriya. He renounced this to become a bairagi.

Edited May 24, 2010 by chatanga1

[chatanga1]

Why is it chaur sahib over baba banda singh bahudar ji is acceptable and chaur sahib over baba khem singh bedi all of sudden becomes ghor maha beadhi?

this migght be another topic but was either of them having chaur waved over them in the presence of Aad Guru Darbar? Neo can you clarify please on the Baba Khem Singh Bedi?

what i have read of Khem Singh Bedi is that he is supposed to have had requested a cushion to sit elevated from sangat in Guru Darbar, by virtue of ancestry of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Maybe you can shed some light on this as well.

[dalsingh101]

BSB was a Rajput and his early life was spent in acquiring the lifestyle of Kshatriya. He renounced this to become a bairagi.

That is similar to what I've heard. Plus the sakhi regarding the pregnant deer from his early life show he wasn't unfamiliar with shasters or hunting.

[chatanga1]

SO Baj Singh had become a Bandai Khalsa hence his remaining with Banda Singh to the end and Binod Singh was a Tat Khalsa.

Binod Singh still left Darbar Sahib with BSB, so I wouldnt say that he wasn't a Bandai Khalsa. But the thing is, that the term Bandai Khalsa was not until the death of BSB. He had his followers, but they were not known formally or informally as Bandai. One thing is sure that 2 of the 5 singhs Binod Singh and Baaj Singh, sent with BSB to advise him were with him pretty much upto his last battle.

The term Bandai came into being after BSB execution in Delhi, where some of his followers at large claimed that he had not died, biut lived through the torture that Farrukhsiyar put him through by use of yoga, and then with his followers escaped to Jammu, where this sect still exists.

My vidya Guru interestingly told me that during this "new" BSB is accredited with a gurdwara on one of the rivers which he crossed sitting on a big stone slab to prove that he was the original BSB and also signed his name on that stone, which is still supposed to exist today at that Gurdwara.

Edited May 24, 2010 by chatanga1