Deadliest Warrior 2X06 Roman Centurion Vs. Rajput

[bhooliya]

It's available at the following website.

http://www.ninjavideo.net/cat/1795

[Guest zulu]

gatka an ancient martial art? whatever

[Mithar]

gatka an ancient martial art? whatever

Perhaps you would like to check out Rajput martial arts videos on youtube or take a trip to Rajasthan. I hate to burst your bubble, but it looks identical to Gatka.

[Guest zulu]

Perhaps you would like to check out Rajput martial arts videos on youtube or take a trip to Rajasthan. I hate to burst your bubble, but it looks identical to Gatka.

That's great.

So how long has gatka been around for?

[shaheediyan]

Mithar, swinging swords or sticks around as fast as you can in a dance or exhibition does not equate to a martial art.

Please post a video/info of training/fighting techniques or any sort of sparring from the Rajput camp so that we can make a proper assesment.

Thanks.

[Maha Singh]

Great example of Gatka

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnRoAhojxQY

[shaheediyan]

Maybe we should open a seperate gatka thread.

Some more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6JBRinzz7U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h74Jd68idrg&feature=related

Here is one of a formal club:

Thanks for that Maha Singh.

So whats the theory re gatka baazi in Pakistan...?

Many of the pentra are the same, ritual/nuances are the same, vaaran, namaskaran are the same etc etc.

So how does this fit with the long held theory that gatka is the unique 'Sikh' martial art given by Guru Hargobind Sahib?

[SAadmin]

Orginal video between roman vs rajputs was great..where are these guys located? Do they have academy where they teach shastarvidya?

[dalsingh101]

That sword/whip thing sucked. Plus did you see the 'expert'? He was knackered after a few minutes! That weapon seemed to have no precision and was potentially a danger to those standing around the wielder, be they friend or foe. Plus it seemed like you'd be screwed at close quarters with that shaster. Has anyone actually come across any old reference to the use or existence of such a weapon?

Kattar was badass though...I thought those scissor ones were supposed to be opened after they had penetrated the body?

Another thing I'm thinking is that those tiny dhals (shields) used in gatka, are fake. No surviving shield I've seen has been that size. Most extant 'pre-British invasion' images and descriptions mention Singhs wearing a shields on their backs. I'm sure those weren't the miniscule ones we see today.

[Guest zulu]

with the bit of understanding I know I am sure you dont swing a khanda like that, within shastar vidiya its not used how that 'master' was swinging around, if your going to swing around like that you forget one thing....battle formations, when your fighting you would have your own fauj around you along with the enemy so how could you swing 30inch - 40inch khanda around you would kill your own. when your at close quarter thats when you pull out the katar's pesh kabz and khyber's knifes, and katti's.

That katar blade was quite big width wise, the thicker the tip the easier it is to pierce chain mail.

I think there are references in historical granth's maybe suraj parkash granth? could be a reference in Sri Sarbloh Granth?

Well you did get madhu sheild's are smallish similar to the gatka ones,

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2135

also you do get smallish buckler's such as http://www.asianarms.com/productdetails.aspx?pid=121

My personal view is that if they were going to 'show' people shastar vidiya they should have used someone who actually knows it! rather than using the name but showing gatka, people with half a brain will know what they showed wasnt shastar vidiya and was gatka.

Do they have academy where they teach shastarvidya?

I dont think they have a shastar vidiya academy well if they do they would teach gatka im assuming. Anyone with any information on them?

Edited May 30, 2010 by zulu

[Laadli Fauj]

singhs were from California Gatka Dal, Los Angeles division. i agree though, the show did not do shastar vidiya much justice at all. even in terms of gatka, the whole emphasis on circular motion and whatnot was waay over done

Edited May 30, 2010 by Laadli Fauj

[dalsingh101]

When I posted earlier, I was talking about this thing, not the khanda

[Guest zulu]

my bad dalsingh

Edited May 30, 2010 by zulu

[Silence]

it might be gatka, but rajput still won!

Edited May 30, 2010 by Silence

[Kaljug]

When I posted earlier, I was talking about this thing, not the khanda

It's called an arra. I think the one that the Singh was using was longer than they usually are.

K.

[shaheediyan]

Thanks for sharing the video Bhooliya.

Shame it was nothing more than a gatka demo, the chakkar throw, Khanda use, aara expertise and even katari use were all off the mark.

They would have been better off using Kalari experts.

Also, they were not comparing like for like, similar Indian shastar should have used i.e. bow (holding 4 arrows in one hand and firing one after another), spear (barj), any number of shorter swords and plethora of axes (tabbars).

Sadly, the massive vidya around usage of formations in Indian warfare was totally ignored also (even a mention in passing). The gatka guys convinced the panel that Rajputs simply fought randomly, or like 'awkward sissies' as the Roman experts put it.

This show would most definately have benefited from Nihang Nidar Singhs input, esp in terms of the correct weapons techniques, strategies and formations of Indian fighting.

The panel also made a great point which attacks the nucleus of the 'gatka is a war science' theory, just how quicky out of breath one gets after jumping around in circles or swinging a sword around.

In battle, the successful warrior knows how to kill effiently and intelligently, using minimum effort... this is what the Romans did, as did any true Warrior race including Rajputs and Khalsai.

Jumping around in cirles or doing figure of 8s only looks good in demos, these exhibitionist performances will also get mocked by real weapons and battle experts. Battle isn't about keeping enemies at a distance for 10 mins (or however long your energy lasts) its about getting as close to them as possible and finishing as many of them as you can quick as you can.

[Mithar]

That’s true. Niddar’s Kung Fu skills would have been much more appreciated and look much more impressive on that ducumentory.

[Guest zulu]

Pretty shocking the centurion didnt kick the rajput's ass, the gatka guys will get boosted over the video, but martial artists know exactly gatka isnt a martial art just guys jumping around swinging usually blunt weapons aimlessly.

I forgot who said this on a previous post it could have been 'shaheediyan' but whoever it was they said something on the lines of 'swinging a stick aimlessly and chanting waheguru out loud doesn't prepare anyone for jung'.

[Maha Singh]

That’s true. Niddar’s Kung Fu skills would have been much more appreciated and look much more impressive on that ducumentory.

Have a look at the video on the above channel, or the Shastarvidiya channel and tell us what part is copied from Kung Fu. Also put up other Kung Fu videos and show how Niddar Singh has used the exact same movement, technique, and strikes.

If in your belief Niddar Singh is merely doing Kung Fu, Martial Arts experts would see right through his facade, however in the recent demonstrations to the western world, Niddar Singh has astounded and gained high respect amongst Ninjitsu, Philipino and Samurai swordsmen. Or is it that your knowledge of martial arts is much greater then those practitioners who are world renowned masters with over 40 yrs experience in the field of martial arts?

Edited May 31, 2010 by Maha Singh

[Guest zulu]

I was watching 'Ancient Discoveries' on the History Channel (530 sky) today at 10am and Niddar Singh Nihang appeared! It was one of the documentary's he has helped with. He was showing technique's on how to use the chakhar and talked briefly about Akali Nihangs. Also he showed a little bit of the vidiya, having a katti in one hand and a katar and choora in the other! amazing!. (A different documentary to weapon master's which Niddar Singh also appeared on).

Anyway kalhari master came on and they talked about how that weapon aara? and killed 9 men, and they told a story from the 16th C about a brother and another man who engaged in battle. The account goes that the man went after the brother again at night and apparently he killed 9men with one attack.

They tried it out and they came to the conclusion that it can actually be possible that the man from the 16th C story could have killed the men at one attack.

It was pretty good and also shocking how I randomly put the channel on as there wasn't anything else to watch and Niddar Singh appeared .

Edited June 4, 2010 by zulu

[Maha Singh]

I believe the episode will be repeated again on History Channel at 9:00pm tonight.

[shaheediyan]

Checked, not on tonight.

[amardeep]

The one katar attack in the beginning was awesome!!!!!

Though many of the moves was gatka, its impressive that they still managed to beat the romans!!!

What episode of ancient discoveries was he on? you can watch the episodes online here:

http://www.yidio.com/show/ancient-discoveries

Edited June 13, 2010 by amardeep

[amardeep]

are any of you amazed by the moves seen on the above video of Nihang Niddar Singh posted by Maha Singh ? To me it looks like very normal and logical moves that everyone would do if they were attacked (just dodging) , I dont see anything extra ordinary ?

were anyone amazed by it at the exhibition? Most of the opponents stand stil, if they were moving they would have many chances to strike him as his back is clear at most times

[Maha Singh]

Amardeep, if effective fighting to you means banging swords, jumping and huge movements then that's why you cant appreciate what is being shown on the video. SV is subtle and kills come instantly, rushing in will get you sliced open as every single weapon there is live and razor sharp, if the students are freezing its because they have accepted already that their attempt has been countered and in reality they would have been killed. In short, the angles are being cut so finely that maybe you cant appreciate it, it was a martial arts seminar with other martial artists there who could. I believe the only non-biased member of this board who has a good understanding of martial arts and knife/sword work is Shaheediyan, maybe he would like to provide his comments.

The best way for you to see how hard it is to do this art is to have a go yourself at the Akharas.