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57 Pakistani Hindus Convert To Islam 'under Pressure'


kdsingh80

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Veer, that source seems like a typical Christian American reaction to the ever growing Sufi popularity in the US (and worldwide for that matter).

If I saw anything but a totally negative and one sided demonisation of Sufism (Islam), I may have taken it just a little more seriously.

Baba Farid Ji was of the same Chisti order your American article demonises. There are said to be tens of millions of followers of Baba Farids in China, Africa, Arabia, Pakistan and not to mention India.

This is the danger when we try and interpret worldy hate, propoganda, history, interpretation and personal bias in confliction with our own faith, of which Baba Farid Ji Maharaj is an integral part.

Rather than reading one sided reactionery propoganda on Sufis, I would highly recommend reading Sufi readings, just as our very own Seva Panthi Sampryada used to do.

With due respect, your response is the typical dhimmi attitude of "Islam means Peace and all evidence to the contrary is Islamophobia!". Did you even read the Sufi quotes IN THEIR OWN WORDS about jihad against the unbelievers? How can you possibly dismiss as a typical Christian American reaction this proof of the same old jihad threats in Sufi writings?

Your precious Chisti order today teaches that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was nothing but a Muslim follower of Sheikh Farid. For all your pro-Sufi talk, it is clear that they have no such respect for Sikhi. Sure, your Sufi mate Jelaluddin Abdul may speak highly of "Hadrat Nanak" but he still has in his heart the same contempt for non-Muslims as your average Talibani sullah.

Edit: Here's the thing that you are not getting: it DOES NOT MATTER how pretty the words that some Sufi spouts at you, if he still believes that actions of a child-molesting, murdering rapist are divinely approved, if he teaches that such things are A OK because that it what it says in the Quran, then he is a malechh pure and simple. He can dhikr as much as he likes, talk about fana and nafs till hell freezes over, but the moment he teaches anti-semitism and sexual slavery as actions sanctioned by God, he is going straight to narak.

K.

Edited by Kaljug
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Through Gurbani, friendships of our Gurus, Muslim Bhagat Bani, ithihaas such as Banda Bahadur not allowing Masjids to be destroyed, actions of Khalsai re mosques in India etc... do you really not think Sikhi teaches tolerance of Islam to say the least? Do you think you accord with this?

And I am not talking about being a 'paying' dhimmi.

Believe it or not, my tolerance and lack of insulting Islam comes from my Sikhi (gurbani), not some naive, euphoric world view.

If Islam and the prophet Muhammed were evil, bhagat bani would not have been included in Gurbani and the numerous references to Islamic names of God would not have been so beautifully portrayed either.

Gurbani talks about Islam and Snaatn dharm in the same light, hundreds of times, saying Khudda and Ram are one, the Mandhir and Masjid is the same, this is what Mahapursh teach too, that the dharams are not bad, just that they have lost their light over time (in the mainstream part). Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji was known to give copies of the quran sharif (and its arth) to his Muslim followers.

Again, I would suggest looking into the reason why Sevapanthis recited the Ghazali’s Keemiya-i-sa’adat.

Of course horrendous acts have been commited in the name of Islam, but so have some of the most amazing - in terms of propogation of science, arts, music and spirituality.

Edited by shaheediyan
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Of course horrendous acts have been commited in the name of Islam, but so have some of the most amazing - in terms of propogation of science, arts, music and spirituality.

That is conceded, but that doesn't answer the question regarding the actual actions of the founder of the faith, more specifically if they were dharmic or adharmic.

You do have an important point in the above statement though and so does Kaljug when he mentions the lifestyle and decisions made by Mohammad. This isn't a case of saying certain followers are doing negative actions but that the original founder was himself. It is a point worth pondering. Further to this, is there a direct link between the actions of Mohammad and the undeniable actions of some Muslims today that compels them to convert others in ways considered brutal or underhand by many Sikhs?

As a side note, years ago a practicing Muslim fellow uni student told me that music was haram in their religion (other than a battle drum). Is this not true?

Edited by dalsingh101
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"Your precious Chisti order today teaches that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was nothing but a Muslim follower of Sheikh Farid."

Today? Isn't that what Sufis have always believed, that Baba Nanak Shah was Hazrat, both in his lifetime (which is why he was excepted in the Middle East and had a following there) and during his deathbed! No mystery there Veer. The Pir Sahib sitting on Mian Mirs gaddi who retains his unresearched diary and tells amazing sakhai of 6th Master, had no issue admitting Guru Nanak Dev Ji is a Muslim when asked straight out. Any open minded spiritual Muslim would think the same, not so different from Sikhs believing Dru Prehlad were Gurmukhs as revealed in Gurbani.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji is 'offically' also claimed by the Sri Chaitnya school, the Ismailis and some Buddist schools - as he is recorded in their holy texts. This is not something to worry about, but celebrate, for it provides evidence of Gurus Jis far reaching communication and following within all schools. To slag off those who believe in Guru Nanak Dev Ji as divine is foolhardy (with all due respect).

Dalsingh, Sufis - the original propogators of Islam in Indian and beyond have played an integral part in the development and evolution of Hindustani sangeet, in fact it is there contribution that today seperates Hindustani (North Indian classical) sangeet and Karnatic sangeet (South Indian Classical).

The Sufi and Vaishnav raags were placed in highly strategic places in the Goindval Pothis, signifying a deep message, but thats a topic for another day.

Don't forget Mughals like Akhbar propogated Indian Music to its highest levels (look up the sakhi of Tansen), which again is another reason why constantly harp on about not throwing all 'Muhals' into the same basket. You need to seperate the cultures of the Shia and Sunni Mughals rulers.

The main incident that you are refering to was Aurengzabs ban on the performing arts, in which some of the biggest victims were (believe it or not) Muslims - both Sufis and Mirasis (the traditional music performing low caste - as per Bhai Mardana).

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Another factor to consider is like it or not, Islam is here to stay.

Nothing is here to stay. Keep watching. In our tiny lifetimes, this 'Bachitar Natak' will bring in those twists, we can't even imagine.

Would you like to be an actor in this 'jagat tamasha' or would just love to watch it sitting on sidelines?

Edited by laalsingh
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