chatanga1 Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 PS certainly has some very interesting pieces in it. It has some which seem peculiar, because you would think, would Guru ever practice this? i will give one example to begin with and add some more later. The PS is a tranlation by mcleod, and it states: on the birth of a boy, a hole should be bored through the ear and a gold or steel hoop inserted... more later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Yes i've read it and I love it. Compared to other rehitnama litterature it is very in line with Sikhi most of the way 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 We should keep all info on Prem Sumarag in the existing thread about it, no? Admin can you do the honours? http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=5110&view=&hl=prem%20sumarag&fromsearch=1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Its funny how your typical punjabi ideas from that time could just have easily have been said by any one of today. That really is very strange though isn't it. There is no doubt that is one of the most confused periods of sikh history, if not the most. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Its funny how your typical punjabi ideas from that time could just have easily have been said by any one of today Can you elaborate on this Silence. I personally found the granth generally very 'modernish' in outlook myself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 (edited) Can you elaborate on this Silence. I personally found the granth generally very 'modernish' in outlook myself. I think Silence ji meant that a lot of the weird practices like the ear-piercing babies stuff in PS could just as easily be repeated by a modern day Punjabi who believes that such things are part of Sikhi rather than traditional cultural practices from Punjabi village folk. K. Edited June 8, 2010 by Kaljug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Here are some of my comments on Prem Sumarag when i read it some 2 years http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=10564 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 (edited) I think Silence ji meant that a lot of the weird practices like the ear-piercing babies stuff in PS could just as easily be repeated by a modern day Punjabi who believes that such things are part of Sikhi rather than traditional cultural practices from Punjabi village folk. K. Yeah pretty much, sorry I can't offer any deeper insight! lol But would like to hear your thoughts dalsingh Edited June 8, 2010 by Silence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 (edited) i have finished PS, and i have to say on the whole it was very boring, uninspiring and largely forgetable. There are snippets of gems but these are rarely remembered when the burden of "dharma" is placed on one's shoulders in the way that PS advocates. On the cover it says this is testimony of a sanatan sikh, and if this is so, then good luck to the sanatanis, cos they gonna need it. Reading this largely made m feel that the procedures laid out were exactly the kind of stuff that Guru Nanak wanted us to forget, largely worship or karam which is meaningless. there is a great focus on numbers and amounts which dont really mean anything. Some of the things that i find objectionable to the teachings of the Gurus: On the birth of a boy, the proscribed rehit is to take place after 7 days, but for girls after 9 days. why 2 extra days? The wedding cost has been set to 25% of the brides father's assets. why 25 %? Widows remarriage is ideally avoided, according to PS, whereas Guru Amardas favoured remarriage. why should widows have to jump through fire to get remarried? Who made these guys Ram Chander? why are widows told their remarriage will be disgraceful? The bride groom should wear gold ankle chains? why ? to look like a gay? A bridegroom should have for his bride on the wedding day, a burka, tight pants. why? it says after a body has been cremated, khande ki pahul should be sprinkled on the ashes and unburnt bones of the deceased. for what? widows should only eat once every day, and salt is to be avoided. the singing of kirtan for the deceased varies from age to age. a man who has relations with woman other than his wife(or wives) should be fined 500 rupees. why so excessive? 500 rupees in that time, who could pay that kind of money? It gives license to keep people as slaves whereas the history that runs parallel to this PS bears witness to the contrary. also saying that Kings should encourage brothels to avoid unmarried relationships. I could add more. On the plus side of this PS : techniques of Simran. the responsibilites of caring for the body is excellent. the way of sahaj yog gives valuable information on living. you can find these in any good book on gurmat so apart from these i can see why this granth was forgotten. Edited June 10, 2010 by chatanga1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 (edited) The bride groom should wear gold ankle chains? why ? to look like a gay? LOL! I'd probably fall over laughing if ever I saw a Shastardhari Soorbir Dumalla-plus-Chakra wearing Singh sporting ankle bracelets on his wedding day. I feel a lot of the examples above are just Punjabi customs elevated to the state of divine laws and Sikhi rehat. Reminds me of some auntie ji telling my sister-in-law that she couldn't go out for 40 days after she had her kid (what the hell are new mothers supposed to do indoors for 40 days?), or old buddhia saying that you shouldn't eat meat on Tuesdays, or saying that someone is thinking bad thoughts about you if you feel warmth in your earlobes, or not to sneeze while you are peeing. K. Edited June 10, 2010 by Kaljug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 (edited) or not to sneeze while you are peeing. This one makes perfect sense lest you piss all over the place! PS - Silence I'll post some thoughts after I revisit the work. Edited June 10, 2010 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 I think the book requires advanced knowledge on politics and government in order for one to truly appreciate the last two chapters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 This one makes perfect sense lest you piss all over the place! LOL, it's pretty much impossible to do hence it's redundant advice. K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 (edited) LOL, it's pretty much impossible to do hence it's redundant advice. K. Even other more 'traditional' rehats have redundant stuff like don't put out candles with your breathe, use water. It is just part and parcel of their nature. For us, the task is to extract the useful ideas from them for our current times and the future, as well as learn what sort of worldview some of our ancestors had for historical reasons. I don't share Chatanga's view on the granth and I believe it is a very important document. Edited June 10, 2010 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 What is the reason that Bhai Nand Lal tankhanamah mentions how to put out candles? was it a big problem back then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 What is the reason that Bhai Nand Lal tankhanamah mentions how to put out candles? was it a big problem back then? Yes, putting candles out by blowing on them was making Kalyug (not you) worse...lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 Why would it make kalyug worse? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 reading this granth leads me to beleive that hindu-mat had grown in sikhi by this time. i can see why the sanatani hindusikh brothers love it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 (edited) reading this granth leads me to beleive that hindu-mat had grown in sikhi by this time. i can see why the sanatani hindusikh brothers love it. I understand where you are coming from but I still think there are good ideas within that we could distill. There is still much of value after we remove the 'Hindu-mat'. But that is a longer discussion for another day. Amardeep: I was being sarcastic dude! lol Edited June 11, 2010 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 What is the reason that Bhai Nand Lal tankhanamah mentions how to put out candles? was it a big problem back then? This principle isn't so redundent these days. Where it says candles, read jot made of ghee. I have been told that the reason you dont blow out divas, jots and agarbati dhoops (incense) etc is that by doing so you doing are not respecting agni-dev. A sort of beadbi to Agni. However I cant see how this works when you blow into a choola with a phookna when cooking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 This principle isn't so redundent these days. Where it says candles, read jot made of ghee. I have been told that the reason you dont blow out divas, jots and agarbati dhoops (incense) etc is that by doing so you doing are not respecting agni-dev. A sort of beadbi to Agni. However I cant see how this works when you blow into a choola with a phookna when cooking. Is Sikhi really about such things? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 This principle isn't so redundent these days. Where it says candles, read jot made of ghee. I have been told that the reason you dont blow out divas, jots and agarbati dhoops (incense) shouldn't jots dhoops and divas etc be allowed to burn out naturally? why wold someone want to end them b4 their time? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 Is Sikhi really about such things? Yes it is, just look around you! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 shouldn't jots dhoops and divas etc be allowed to burn out naturally? why wold someone want to end them b4 their time? Yes they should , however if you're leaving the house, you shouldn't really leave anything burning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 11, 2010 Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 Yes it is, just look around you! That is debatable, but for another time. I haven't got the stomach for it right now. lol I would like to go with the tenor of Bhai Gurdas's general warning against superstitions myself though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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