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Whaeguru Ji Ka Khalsa Whaeguru Ji Ke Fateh Ji

Dear all, I would like to ask what motivates you to pray (whence what should one use to motivate self), perhaps from gurmat someone could answer this and elborate on such a thing, do we pray because we suffer and desire happiness- but does this not conflict itself because a GurSikh should accept dukh and sukh as the same, and sukh is a rog it will make us forget God. Do we pray because we desire to go to heaven, is that not greed in itself? Or do we pray for wordly things, xbox360, girls, good grades, money, cars, offspring, houses, prosperity (maya) which in effect will break us away from God? Do we pray because someone has forced us to, if such a thing happens is it really prayer if its not from the heart? I was once quote a line from either Baba Farid ji or Baba Kabir ji on how desire brings us close, so by offering food in langar it brings people closer to come for God, so by giving food in Gurdwara its not a bad thing (bribery), please could someone give that line of gurbani or similar. Please give personal and impersonal answers. Is the idea of gain the opposite of what Sikhs should be doing should we not be perusing sacrifice instead, if such a case what brings one to do such. How does one accept the true will of God (satgur da panne)?

Thanks

Bhul Chuk maaf Karna

Whaeguru Ji Ka Khalsa Whaeguru Ji Ke Fateh Ji

Edited by sarbatdapala
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almost any motivation is ok, as per Gurmat. I believe it was Bhagat Kabir ji who prays for food etc. signifying asking for our needs is ok. I think it's even ok to ask for things we want but don't need.

But the highest thing in Gurmat is asking for God.

There's a shabad, Gauri M. 5, Thir Ghar Baisho Har Jun Pyare, Satgur Tumare Kaaj Savare - I have heard abhyaas of this shabad helps makes a person's works complete.

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Personally I think asking for maya sort of defeats the purpose of bhagti.

What one should ask for instead is the strength to persevere in the face of challenges - and that means when you have to go without luxuries.

I think GGS ji's 'Mitar pyaray nu' is a good example of this.

Edited by dalsingh101
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There are different levels of spirituality.

He is the greatest giver. There is nothing wrong with asking from Lord.

It is Bhagat Dhanna asking for daily stuff.

ਦਾਲਿ ਸੀਧਾ ਮਾਗਉ ਘੀਉ ॥Lentils, flour and ghee - these things, I beg of You.

ਹਮਰਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਕਰੈ ਨਿਤ ਜੀਉ ॥My mind shall ever be pleased.

ਪਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀਆ ਛਾਦਨੁ ਨੀਕਾ ॥Shoes, fine clothes,

ਅਨਾਜੁ ਮਗਉ ਸਤ ਸੀ ਕਾ ॥੧॥and grain of seven kinds - I beg of You. ||1||

ਗਊ ਭੈਸ ਮਗਉ ਲਾਵੇਰੀ ॥A milk cow, and a water buffalo, I beg of You,

ਇਕ ਤਾਜਨਿ ਤੁਰੀ ਚੰਗੇਰੀ ॥and a fine Turkestani horse.

ਘਰ ਕੀ ਗੀਹਨਿ ਚੰਗੀ ॥A good wife to care for my home -

ਜਨੁ ਧੰਨਾ ਲੇਵੈ ਮੰਗੀ ॥੨॥੪॥Your humble servant Dhanna begs for these things, Lord. ||2||4||

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Just read news that Nikki Haley won primary. B1tch sold her soul to succeed in politics. I don't know why Jesus should save opportunist like her. This is exactly what Dasam Pita is talking about in 'Mittar Pyare Nu'.

ਸੂਲ ਸੁਰਾਹੀ ਖੰਜਰ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਬਿੰਗ ਕਸਾਈਆਂ ਦਾ ਸਹਿਣਾ।Their water pitchers are like stakes, drikinking cup edges are like daggers, it is like suffering from butchers.

ਯਾਰੜੇ ਦਾ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਸੱਥਰੁ ਚੰਗਾ ਭਠ ਖੇੜਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਰਹਿਣਾ।Death bed from Beloved is pleasing, (but) flower like bed (from other) is like furnace.

Edited by laalsingh
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Just read news that Nikki Haley won primary. B1tch sold her soul to succeed in politics. I don't know why Jesus should save opportunist like her.

I don't know about Jesus but those evangelicals want converts. Many of our Panjabi brothers and sisters are also heavily driven by material wealth and success. In Nikki's case, the two needs seem to have coalesced.

I can't see us do anything but expect more of the same under the current circs.

At least she still believes in God I guess. But this is one women most Sikh fathers would not want their daughter emulating.

And I get your point about Bhagat Dhanna's bani. Still, I was always taught to avoid making prayers a personal 'wish list'. As an adult I can understand why better.

I have seen so many people pray for stuff and get angry with God for not getting it. Better to pray for fortitude and strength I think. But each to their own I guess.

Edited by dalsingh101
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I had a leaflet once from a gurdwara on full arth of ardas where it came from the words araj and das. And the lists of wrong things to ask and right things. Is it wrong to pray to meet a girl who can become a wife (bearing in mind I am approaching age of marriage) or would One just go about leaving everything to maharaj, is the desire not wrong.

I have used that as an example ofcourse in life the wishlist grows but thats just a typical example where I can see there being conflict. Do you believe that praying for something not happen may take effect when in fact we should pray for the opposite, so negative prayers such as "god take away my pain" may not go answered where "god give me good health" may come to be. Maybe if anyone has the leaflet it can help. I have seen these videos on the idea of prayer repackaged and rebranded as something called "the law of attraction" its really huge in america due to the fear of religion in the modern world now.

Edited by sarbatdapala
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Maybe each jeev comes into the world with prior sanskars. Seeds of Karma which according to the law of God must manifest and cause the jeev to experience certain things in accordance with his spiritual evolution. To pray for your lawful desires to be fulfilled is not bad there is nothing wrong with this. But if you have commited actions that will cause you to suffer and you do path and use Ardas to avoid or delay these karmas this is wrong. The aim is to be free of the taint of maya but this is not a purely mental operation that can be done by anyone with a mind to do so. What has been written on your forehead by your past actions and actions of your ancestors has to be you have to experience it, unless you get the highest form of anugraha and your karmas are wiped clean. But then you have to meet a great saint and gain his blessing.

It may be useful to divide a human into personality and essence. Personality is the persona the mask the act. It is the purely external side of the person the showoff part. This part is subject to change and dissolution it can change very quickly dpending on external situations. Essence is the true part of the Individual it is more solid and unchangeable then personality. It is in essence where an individuals desires and capabilities are latent. Beyond these two is the atma or true self. Through correct vichaar an individual sifts off the false part of himself and understands his essence and why he has incarnated. Then he must do the work he has been set.

Edited by Mekhane'ch Jannat
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Maybe each jeev comes into the world with prior sanskars. Seeds of Karma which according to the law of God must manifest and cause the jeev to experience certain things in accordance with his spiritual evolution. To pray for your lawful desires to be fulfilled is not bad there is nothing wrong with this. But if you have commited actions that will cause you to suffer and you do path and use Ardas to avoid or delay these karmas this is wrong. The aim is to be free of the taint of maya but this is not a purely mental operation that can be done by anyone with a mind to do so. What has been written on your forehead by your past actions and actions of your ancestors has to be you have to experience it, unless you get the highest form of anugraha and your karmas are wiped clean. But then you have to meet a great saint and gain his blessing.

It may be useful to divide a human into personality and essence. Personality is the persona the mask the act. It is the purely external side of the person the showoff part. This part is subject to change and dissolution it can change very quickly dpending on external situations. Essence is the true part of the Individual it is more solid and unchangeable then personality. It is in essence where an individuals desires and capabilities are latent. Beyond these two is the atma or true self. Through correct vichaar an individual sifts off the false part of himself and understands his essence and why he has incarnated. Then he must do the work he has been set.

The ancestors thing really caught my attention, do you have gurbani like evidence or source, I wish to look more into this. Also, I thought dharma cancels out karma, we all generally do ardas when we are not well, but if it is so as our karam should we just leave it and just do ardas saying to accept the will of god.

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But if you have commited actions that will cause you to suffer and you do path and use Ardas to avoid or delay these karmas this is wrong. The aim is to be free of the taint of maya but this is not a purely mental operation that can be done by anyone with a mind to do so. What has been written on your forehead by your past actions and actions of your ancestors has to be you have to experience it, unless you get the highest form of anugraha and your karmas are wiped clean. But then you have to meet a great saint and gain his blessing.

reading this the sakhi of the woman who held the reins of 6th Guru's horse and asked for the boon of a son comes to mind. There, Guru Ji said it is not is your karm to have son, and Bibi said "mahraj if it isnt written there write it here..."

So can this Karam can be wiped clean by meeting Guru Ji, and asking for forgiveness/mercy?

Edited by chatanga1
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What I understand is that Karam cannot be wiped clean. As even every thought is recorded and stored in the universe, karams can only be transferred. So a saint may be willing to bear certain bad Karams of others out of his grace.

'Also, I thought dharma cancels out karma, we all generally do ardas when we are not well, but if it is so as our karam should we just leave it and just do ardas saying to accept the will of god.'

If you do not ask you do not get. Imagine a King ruling over a country but the King never leaves the inner sanctum. He has millions of diamonds and all other things to give out. He sends those nearest to him to watch and hear if anyone below asks for something from the King, and when the King is informed by his watchers and hearers that someone has asked for something he sends some others to give that person that thing. The King never goes himself. Every thing comes from his storeroom but by asking correctly the King is made happy because the people in the country below always ask for wrong things and cause strife and suffering to multiply in the country below. The King has to give to any who ask, but those who ask for things in accordance with his plans that his ministers have drawn up are blessed. The funny thing is the King does not force the plan of his ministers on the country below because the King is also a -Teacher- and he likes people to do the plan from their own will.

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Also apart from what has been mentioned there are external factors that affect individuals. A car that is going along the road of sanskars and karams can be hit and bashed off its course by a manaic driver. The driver may have just done an accident or he could have been on a mission to disrupt someones journey on the said road. Because in this road system are some drivers that have no insurance and MOTs and drive around to cause chaos and smash up cars and prevent them from going on the road. Basically it is better to let the Devtay service your car the Asur will rip you off and cheat you. Also be aware of potholes and other obstacles that have been -artificially- created in the road

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ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇ ਸੁਣਿ ਸਭਨਾ ਨੋ ਕਰਿ ਦਾਨੁ ॥

ਜਨਮ ਕਰਮ ਮਲੁ ਉਤਰੈ ਮਨ ਤੇ ਜਾਇ ਗੁਮਾਨੁ ॥

Guru Ji teachess that Karam are sown by us and thus, we bear the fruit also.

But through Dharmic actions, we can certainly perfect/improve our karam.

Through perfect bhakti, that rare individual rises above Karma and the game.

We should at the very least strive to improve karma through good actions - IMHO the how, when and why is not important, all that is important is the purity of our thoughts and actions.

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  • 10 years later...
On 6/22/2010 at 12:53 AM, Mr Sardar said:

Whaeguru Ji Ka Khalsa Whaeguru Ji Ke Fateh Ji

Dear all, I would like to ask what motivates you to pray

(whence what should one use to motivate self), perhaps from gurmat someone could answer this and elborate on such a thing, do we pray because we suffer and desire happiness- but does this not conflict itself because a GurSikh should accept dukh and sukh as the same, and sukh is a rog it will make us forget God. Do we pray because we desire to go to heaven, is that not greed in itself? Or do we pray for wordly things, xbox360, girls, good grades, money, cars, offspring, houses, prosperity (maya) which in effect will break us away from God? Do we pray because someone has forced us to, if such a thing happens is it really prayer if its not from the heart? I was once quote a line from either Baba Farid ji or Baba Kabir ji on how desire brings us close, so by offering food in langar it brings people closer to come for God, so by giving food in Gurdwara its not a bad thing (bribery), please could someone give that line of gurbani or similar. Please give personal and impersonal answers. Is the idea of gain the opposite of what Sikhs should be doing should we not be perusing sacrifice instead, if such a case what brings one to do such. How does one accept the true will of God (satgur da panne)?

 

Brother Sardar Jee,

prayer in essence is just enabling conversation with our heavenly beloved Father Waheguru Akal Purukh. And the real prayer accodrding to Gurmat, is His simran. 

Just as a child calls his father, then the father comes running to the child, in a similar way, with our Simran, we are expressing our love, our devotion, and our dirty mind at His Lotus feet, in essence, we become mindless, and just as  a lover forgets its identity in the presence of the beloved, so does the soul/surtee, with His simran, becomes mindless as said above, becomes pure, paviter, and ulimately merges in Him.

Now, if instead of loving Him through the prem bhakti of His simran,  we ask any other thing than Him from Him; for sure He will give it to us, but in it lies our failure, for we will endlessly keep running into the wheel of 84, in order to get our desires satisfied, this means more desires, and in consequence, strongly remain in the endless cycle of births and deaths.

So brother, it is we who need to love Him through our prayer/simran, in order to please Him, and get the blessings of His apaar kirpa, to get ferried across this horrible mahabhavsagar of pain and agyanta.

A baby without its mother even for a few seconds, starts crying because of misssing her from his/her sight.  

And so what about us?

Have we ever cried for being away from Him since so long? 

Have we ever expressed our pain and agony of being away from Him?

Most of the answers will be no for sure, because we are so much engrossed in the marketplace of maya, that we hardly have any time for Him.

Yet, He never ever loses hope for us, for He wants us to recover our sight through practice of the teachings of Gurbani, which is nothing than:  Ikoankar Satnam   Satgur parsad Jap.  Which means, there is only One creator Lord, who is found by the jap of the parsad Guru Sahiban gave us, and which is His Nao. 

So, the real prayer is the Simran of His holy Name. For in it, we call upon Him lovingly, and that is what pleases Him the most.

 

SSA.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This video is the best one i have seen so far in english especially as the young gursikh can do 106 jap ji sahib paaths at the age of 13 is the best thing i have seen especially in todays kalyug.

 

Interview with a Young Inspiring Sikh | Khalsa Podcast #3 | English Series

 

 

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