25 Year Anniversary Of The Air India Attack

[vancouverite]

Vahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vahiguru Ji i Fateh

Today is the 25th anniversary of the terrorist attack that brought down Air India flight 182. I'm posting to remind all the Sangat to keep the innocent victim's families in their Ardas and ask Guruji to one day bless them with a sense of justice and peace. This terrorist attack has brought so much suffering to all people regardless of religion, race, or nationality. The actions of a few deranged fanatics has also cast a black cloud over the image of the entire Sikh nation worldwide for way too long. It is time that we, the younger Sikh generation, take a stand against fanaticism/shariavaad of the past and the present in the name of humanity. Gurfateh

http://www.cbc.ca/news/airindia/

Edited June 23, 2010 by vancouverite

[Guest]

Hopefully Gurdwara's across Canada are holding some sort of remembrance either through akhand patt or in ardas. It was cowardice act of terrorism regardless of whoever did it.

Also on that note: I believe Canadian gov't should compensate victims at least 1 million dollar each for screwing the investigations by CSIS. It is already been established CSIS knew about the attack before, but refused to do anything probably because of racist attitude of that time- oh two tribals fighting with each other who cares, let them die.

It is true that Canada is not guilty as libya where libya secret service agent was responsible forbombing of pan amm flight but Canadian gov't agencies are also guilty for failing to prevent this attack, along with sikh terrorist/ fascist extermist like talvinder singh parmar and inderjit singh reyat.

Libya have already admitted and accepted moral responsibility of this attack gave the victims- 230 million dollars together, Canada should accept partial blame as well and compensate the victims fully.

[dalsingh101]

This is one of those situations where no one comes out looking clean. Even our lot.

I pray Sikhs never take the route of terrorism to achieve political objectives. They are counter productive, and in a world where we have almost no sway in how we are presented by mass media, very foolish in terms of PR.

Yes, we have big problems in our homeland, but we should be using our intellect and choices to overcome these.

[tonyhp32]

Let me take a counterview. There is no evidence that a conspiracy by Sikhs brought down that plane. Yes, one Sikh was convicted of assembling an explosive device which was used in the bombing but where is the evidence of a conspiracy? If there were Sikhs involved in the conspiracy then why did the multi-million dollar prosecution fail? We all know that it's well nigh impossible to keep a small secret among our people but keeping mum over the worst case of airline terrorism prior to 9/11 takes some believing. Also the families seem to want revenge rather than justice, not one organisation of these has asked for the enquiry to be widened to include Indian government activities (if not involvement) in this case. According to the recent Inquiry the GOI gave a very accurate warning of the type of attack, one which then actually took place. If you think that the GOI is that good that it can give such an accurate warning and yet could not forsee the attacks on Mumbai then that also takes some believing. I'm not into conspiracy theories but the GOI is capable of killing 329 passengers in an aircraft to malign the Sikh movement.

Rathar than pine over the loss of 329 people who made the decision to use the national carrier of India after the GOi had just murdered thousands of Sikhs and destroyed the Akal Takht, then arranged for the pogrom of more thousands of Sikh in Delhi then sorry but you made the decision and whether it was Sikh terrorists or the GOI that brought down your plane, live with the consequences of your decision.

Edited June 24, 2010 by tonyhp32

[Guest]

I also beleive GOI might be responsible for this attack. I am in view of either parmar was GOI agent as mentioned in soft target or terrorist who had part in the attack.

Some of our sikhs have double standards when it comes to Canadian justice system, they agree with Canadian justice system- judge of air india case when two people- malik and bagri were found not guilty of this mass murder, but if same judge without any reasonable doubt held inderjit reyat as a bomb maker, vicious liar and talvinder singh parmar as main conspirator, then all of sudden- same judge becomes bias or is wrong in judgement.

Same thing can be seen with some of our sikhs quoting soft target book right, left and center as credible source, when it comes talk about the contents of book ie- shady life of parmar and other so called chardi-kalah sikhs, they go in denial and refuse to accept the contents of the same book which they think its reliable.

Victims of terrorism are victims regardless who they are, there shouldn't be partiality, sikhs suffering through state govt terrorism and air india victims suffered through sikh terrorism or undercover raw agents who happen to be sell out sikhs, all the suffering is one and same, they have every right to feel bitter as they are victims.

We as community failed to acknowledge victims suffering or condemn this attack at the strong terms, our leaders are too busy to play politics between themselves, if our leaders have any sympathy or regret over loss of lives in air india bombing regardless if sikhs involved in this horrendous act were raw agents or cold blooded terrorist, they would have came out and excommunicated reyat and parmar from the panth but no our leaders at akaal tatkth were incomptent and lacked a backbone, didn't even issue an statement on this attack let alone excommunciate, just to please an self interested group in the panth who still deem inderjit reyat an hero and parmar as martyr because previous jatha affiliations.

We talk about hindu community who didn't openly denounce delhi riots of mass murder of sikhs, but forget to clean our house where sikh vatican failed to denounce air india bombing done by who happen to be sikhs regardless if they were undercover raw agents or effected with fascism. Two wrongs does not make it right.

Amount of damage was down to Canadian Sikhs via media were some of it were self inflicted by our own community and others were done by the biased media.

[jaikaara]

well said N30 singh veer ji !

[amardeep]

How is it that everytime you (Tony)) writes something good , you conclude your post by saying something BS nonsense.

Most people on earth are NOT political consumers. They buy goods for their own happines and pleasure, and unfortunately do not think much about politics involved. This is reality unfortunately, but to say that these civilians somehow "had it coming" is absolutely BS. The civilians on board went to india to visit their family they missed, or as tourists,- they did'n go to finance indian opression of minorities!!

I dont buy into the blaming of sikhs either. It was a pure political act of GOI to demonise Sikhs in world media after 1984.

There is a investigating article by BBC on india's role in the bombing. I think it can be found online somewhere...

Edited June 24, 2010 by amardeep

[SURYADEV]

Thanks for that Neo. Your piece really clarified this sorry saga for me. Could never get my head round who was doing what, where and why.

Tony, in addition to amardeep. The statement you said is just an echo of what we've been hearing for decades from the like of PLO, LTTE and other terrorist organisations. 'Guilt by association' is a weak argument used by the weak.

[jaikaara]

had this been done to jagdish tytler or sajjan kumar i perhaps would haev agreed, but this was done to those innocent people who had nothing to do with what happened in delhi.

we have blamed indira all the time , i agree we should, but the other side too needs to be looked in. what abt bhindranwale ? what happened to his senses ? why did he let the first bullet go through our holy place? he bloddy well knew they were after him, dint he ?

[Guest]

Jaikara,

Please let not bring sant jarnail singh bhindranwale into this topic as its un-related, kindly create another thread.

[jvalasingh]

Rathar than pine over the loss of 329 people who made the decision to use the national carrier of India after the GOi had just murdered thousands of Sikhs and destroyed the Akal Takht, then arranged for the pogrom of more thousands of Sikh in Delhi then sorry but you made the decision and whether it was Sikh terrorists or the GOI that brought down your plane, live with the consequences of your decision.

That's some really scary logic

[Guest]

Indeed, jwala singh.

Rathar than pine over the loss of 329 people who made the decision to use the national carrier of India after the GOi had just murdered thousands of Sikhs and destroyed the Akal Takht, then arranged for the pogrom of more thousands of Sikh in Delhi then sorry but you made the decision and whether it was Sikh terrorists or the GOI that brought down your plane, live with the consequences of your decision.

It's bit unfortunate that this thread is been dragged to pretty much cham of the victims and decision of victims to use the national carrier of india, then may i ask what about innocent children died in the flight? what was their fault? 30% of the victims were children. it must be their karma i guess or was it their parents fault? what a pile of bullocks..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder if your responses would be the same, if one of your children or parent was in that flight.

[Mithar]

Just to clarify, Reyat was accused of man slaughter and he got the maximum sentence for man slaughter which is about 5 years in prison. He pleaded guilty voluntarily because the prosecution gave him a choice to either accept the man slaughter charge or to remain in jail more many more years until the trial would be over. Reyat chose the man slaughter charge as a tactical move to get out to jail faster and be with his family. The prosecution had nothing against him. The prosecution paid witnesses to lie against the Sikhs in trial, all the false witnesses were completely proven wrong by the defense team. The other two Sikhs Bhai Malik/Bagri eventually got out which is a testament to their innocence. The tragedy of the trial is the highly biased media reporting of this case by the likes of Terry Melewsky of CBC and that obnoxious fat woman Kim Bolan of Vancouver Sun.

A government(GOI) which had no problem slaughtering it's own citizens in operation blue star and later the Kristallnacht of the Sikhs in which thousands Sikhs were murdered in cold blood all over India after the death of Indira Gandhi, do you actually think such a government would have an ethical problem in killing a few hundred more of it's own citizens on air planes in order to destroy the image of the Khalistani movement in North America? In my opinion the GOI at that time was capable of any horrendous act.

[Guest]

Inderjit Reyat himself admitted making of an bomb, his bridge story is complete fabricated. He is been labelled as unmitigated liar by an judge (same judge who acquitted bagri and malik) and he is now faces various charges of perjury.

Yeah thats a type of chardi-kalah ideal youths really need to look up to....!! what a farce...!

[vancouverite]

QUOTE "Rathar than pine over the loss of 329 people who made the decision to use the national carrier of India after the GOi had just murdered thousands of Sikhs and destroyed the Akal Takht, then arranged for the pogrom of more thousands of Sikh in Delhi then sorry but you made the decision and whether it was Sikh terrorists or the GOI that brought down your plane, live with the consequences of your decision."

Wow. Stone cold response, my friend. Scary indeed

[tonyhp32]

I know that most if not all of you found my statement cold and heartless but then I assume that none of you guys were either around in 1984-85 or were of an age where you could understand the events of 1984 and the impact it had on Sikhs in India as well as abroad. Statements had been made by Sikh leaders for the boycott of all Indian government enterprises and Air India was the one that was targetted for boycott. Whether any threats had been made against Air India I don't recall but everyone would have been aware that by travelling on Air India they are showing support for the Indian establishment. I have been to India over 15 times and have never travelled on Air India. Now it's easy to look at the events of 1985 through post-9/11 mindset. Consider the following scenario. US attacks Mecca killing thousands of Muslim pilgrims. Let's say it was because they thought Bin Laden was there. I am not for one monent equating Bin Laden with Sant Bhindranwale but let's just for the sake of argument make that the reason for the attack. Muslims then around the world make threats against US airlines such as United. Now if Neo after his trek through the Canadian Rockies choose to take a United Airlines flight and that flight gets bombed then nothing personal to Neo but he made a choice to take that flight when others not under threat would have been available and whether or not he supported the US attack on Mecca my sympathy would be tampered by the fact that he made an unwise choice.

The 1984 situation can in no way be equated with Arab-Israeli problem, or the Sri Lanka situation. I would in no way use the same logic if say the Arabs bombed an El Al plane because of that flotilla thing, or if LTTE bombed a Sri Lankan Airlines plane because of the massacres of Tamils by the Sri Lankan army. 1984 situation was unique, only the scenario given above or something similar could be equated with 1984.

Edited June 25, 2010 by tonyhp32

[amardeep]

TOny: Do you belive the victims of the London bombings had it coming since Al Qaeda had warned UK for years prior to the attacks?

[dalsingh101]

Tony

The moment Singhs lost the moral high ground in their conflict, the movement was doomed. Okay terrorism, might work as a tool for some movements but it didn't for Khalistan. On reflection, given the patent inability of Singhs to grasp the use of propaganda against them, they were fighting a losing battle from the get go.

Back then India played no big part in the global economy like now. So they had no bargaining chip with other nations. Sikhs had an arguably enviable reputation in some parts of the west like Britain, yet still, Khalistanis couldn't use this to their advantage. Looking at it in hindsight, the lack of diplomatic skills and inability to present their case to the wider world characterises the movement. Discipline and coordination between kharkoos was practically non-existent and they suffered from the typical infighting that now characterises our quom. There was no Internet back then so information containment was easier. Do you remember how this essentially led to smuggled photos of dead Singhs and kharkoos being published in Des Pardes. The rest of the world either didn't know or frankly didn't care.

I guess we have to put all this down to experience. I don't know how anyone can justify the random killing of Joe Public. But remembering the anger felt back then, yes, there was a hardening of hearts with what went on.

Lesson to be learnt. Any movement needs intelligent restrained leadership. Bravery alone doesn't cut it in this day and age.

Edited June 25, 2010 by dalsingh101

[tonyhp32]

TOny: Do you belive the victims of the London bombings had it coming since Al Qaeda had warned UK for years prior to the attacks?

You didn't read my post. The answer is already given.

[Guest]

I know that most if not all of you found my statement cold and heartless but then I assume that none of you guys were either around in 1984-85 or were of an age where you could understand the events of 1984 and the impact it had on Sikhs in India as well as abroad. Statements had been made by Sikh leaders for the boycott of all Indian government enterprises and Air India was the one that was targetted for boycott. Whether any threats had been made against Air India I don't recall but everyone would have been aware that by travelling on Air India they are showing support for the Indian establishment. I have been to India over 15 times and have never travelled on Air India. Now it's easy to look at the events of 1985 through post-9/11 mindset. Consider the following scenario. US attacks Mecca killing thousands of Muslim pilgrims. Let's say it was because they thought Bin Laden was there. I am not for one monent equating Bin Laden with Sant Bhindranwale but let's just for the sake of argument make that the reason for the attack. Muslims then around the world make threats against US airlines such as United. Now if Neo after his trek through the Canadian Rockies choose to take a United Airlines flight and that flight gets bombed then nothing personal to Neo but he made a choice to take that flight when others not under threat would have been available and whether or not he supported the US attack on Mecca my sympathy would be tampered by the fact that he made an unwise choice.

The 1984 situation can in no way be equated with Arab-Israeli problem, or the Sri Lanka situation. I would in no way use the same logic if say the Arabs bombed an El Al plane because of that flotilla thing, or if LTTE bombed a Sri Lankan Airlines plane because of the massacres of Tamils by the Sri Lankan army. 1984 situation was unique, only the scenario given above or something similar could be equated with 1984.

Tony,

What right sikh leaders had to dictate hindus, christians, muslims, atheist etc in that doomed airline living abroad what airline should they take or shouldn't?

Fine, its a great parchar to peacefully protest and request in radio shows to boycott air india but to dictate in a way where you imply an statement you be responsible for your own safety including children or you had it coming implies a great deal of violent intimidation/shariavaad/atvaad and shows lack of remorse on victims.

Why stop there? What next? Did our sikh leaders made statements like- don't use vegetables from india, you be responsible for your own safety?

Your post really shows why khalistan movement failed, all we need is your fanatical post and gov't tatus like dave hayer or dosanjh to capitalize and exploit the situation in the article or news paper.

[tonyhp32]

Neo

Like Amardeep you also didn't read my post properly. What have vegetables from India to do with this? Air India is an organ of the Indian state, it is virtually a govt department and part of it's publicity machine. What I said is that the passengers made a choice to fly Air India at a time when there was a perceived threat to the airline and the perception of that airline as part of the Indian government. Maybe they thought the Indian intelligence and Air India were so good that there would be no attack. Maybe they also relied on the Canadian intelligence to keep them safe. They might even have held the naive view that their government would not bomb the plane themselves. As it is there was a bombing and they lost their lives. All I'm saying is that they have some responsibility for the choice they made on that day.

What right sikh leaders had to dictate hindus, christians, muslims, atheist etc in that doomed airline living abroad what airline should they take or shouldn't?

In the example I gave, if the US attacked Mecca, I would avoid taking US airlines, wouldn't you? Is that common sense?

Your post really shows why khalistan movement failed, all we need is your fanatical post and gov't tatus like dave hayer or dosanjh to capitalize and exploit the situation in the article or news paper.

Considering the fact that they both believe that Bhagat Singh was a freedom fighter even though he killed the wrong gora police inspector as well as a Sikh policeman, I think they wouldn't be able to take the moral high ground in this case.