Renegade Afghan Soldier Kills Three British Troops In Gurkha Regiment

[dalsingh101]

Right at the end, it says less than 2000 Nato soldiers have died since 2001. As wars go, this one is surprisingly light in casualties on the western side. I wonder how many Afghan civilians have died in that time?

Three British soldiers were killed today in an attack by a renegade Afghan soldier at a military base in Afghanistan.

The soldiers, who have not yet been named, belonged to the 1st Battalion, Royal Gurkha Rifles. They died at an outlying joint British-Afghan base in the Nahr-e Saraj district of Helmand province.

The Ministry of Defence said they had been "killed in a suspected premeditated attack by a member of the Afghan national army using a combination of weapons."

The Afghan soldier is believed to have shot one soldier with a machine gun and killed two more with a rocket-propelled grenade during the attack at around 2.45am.

Four other British troops were also reported to have been injured by the gunman who is believed to be on the run.

David Cameron, the prime minister, described the killings as "appalling" but insisted they should not change the strategy of British troops working alongside and training the Afghan army.

He said that they had discussed the need for an "immediate and urgent investigation" with the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, who has sent a letter of apology to the British government.

The incident took place at a base known as Patrol Base 3, located west of the village Golan Dastak. The Gurkhas have been operating there for the last three months.

The gunman mounted the attack when most troops on the base were asleep, shooting one dead in his sleeping quarters and killing the other two in the base's command centre using a shoulder-mounted rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

Troops swept the base after the attack and a roll-call was taken. All of the Afghan National Army soldiers, except one, were present.

An International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) spokesman said: "It is suspected but not confirmed that it was an ANA soldier who attacked. It is possible that he may have had additional help, but our initial understanding is that it was one person acting alone. This could change later."

Lieutenant Colonel James Carr-Smith, spokesman for Task Force Helmand, said: "We believe these were the actions of a lone individual who has betrayed his ISAF and Afghan comrades. His whereabouts are currently unknown but we are making strenuous efforts to find him.

The MoD said it was carrying out an investigation into the attack.

The families of the soldiers involved in the incident are being informed, but anyone worried about relatives serving in Afghanistan can call a special helpline on 08457 800 900.

Liam Fox, the defence secretary, also said: "Training and developing the Afghan National Security Forces is vital to the international mission in Afghanistan and today's events will not undermine the real progress we continue to make."

However, others warned of the wider ramifications of the attack beyond the training of Afghan security forces, which is a key part of the government's exit strategy.

Professor Michael Clarke, director of the Royal United Services Institute think-tank, said that while the killings would make UK forces more wary about working closely with Afghan soldiers, they would have a greater impact on the British public.

"It doesn't change things in practical terms, but it may change things in political terms. It makes the strategy that much harder to sell to the public," he said.

"From a military point of view it's like an IED (improvised explosive device) - the troops accept the risks. But the political effect of this is greater than an IED because it goes to the public's perception about why we're there."

British troops have been involved in preparing Afghan troops for combat, and the two forces have been working side by side in Helmand, where 9,000 British troops are based as part of the Nato-led force targeting Taliban insurgents.

Each fortnight, up to 600 Afghan national army recruits arrive at Camp Bastion after completing basic training at a military training centre in Kabul.

Captain Anthony Clark-Jones, part of the operational mentoring and liaison team at Camp Bastion, said Afghan troops were being trained to find potential IEDs as well as in other skills. "We take them through skill-at-arms and live firing, among many other subjects," he said.

In November, a rogue Afghan policeman killed five British troops. In December, an Afghan soldier shot dead one US soldier and wounded two Italian troops at a base in Badghis.

After today's attack, ISAF said that although the incident was a breach of trust, it would continue to work in harness with Afghan security forces. The Nato commander in Afghanistan, General David Petraeus, reiterated the message.

"This is a combined, joint mission, Afghan and Alliance troopers fighting shoulder to shoulder against the Taliban and other extremists," Petraeus said in a statement. "We have sacrificed greatly together, and we must ensure that the trust between our forces remains solid in order to defeat our common enemies."

The deputy commander of ISAF forces, Lieutenant General Sir Nick Parker, sought to rally troops still working with Afghan colleagues. "In that patrol base, this will be a traumatic event," he said. "What I say to them is: 'Keep on working. You're doing a fantastic job, and you must continue to do it, and the vast majority of your Afghan partners are real, genuine partners, and you will know that because you work together every day.'"

The attack brings the death toll of British forces and MoD personnel to 317 since operations began in October 2001 – 276 of these through hostile action. In total, 1,925 Nato troops have been killed since 2001.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/13/renegade-soldier-afghanistan-british-troops

Edited July 14, 2010 by dalsingh101

[amardeep]

What does it mean that its a gurkha regiment? you have units based on ethnicity in british army?

Edited July 13, 2010 by amardeep

[SURYADEV]

Sort of . its a remenant of the old british Raj regiments. Highly respected bunch of lads.

[kdsingh80]

What does it mean that its a gurkha regiment? you have units based on ethnicity in british army?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurkha#Post-independence_.281947.E2.80.93present.29

Post-independence (1947–present)

THE GURKHA

SOLDIER

Bravest of the brave,

most generous of the generous,

never had country

more faithful friends

than you.

Professor Sir Ralph Turner MC[29]

After Indian independence—and partition—in 1947 and under the Tripartite Agreement, the original ten Gurkha regiments consisting of the twenty pre-war battalions were split between the British Army and the newly independent Indian Army.[23] Six Gurkha regiments (twelve battalions) were transferred to the post-independence Indian Army, while four regiments (eight battalions) were transferred to the British Army.[30]

To the disappointment of their British officers the majority of Gurkhas given a choice between British or Indian Army service opted for the latter. The reason appears to have been the pragmatic one that the Gurkha regiments of the Indian Army would continue to serve in their existing roles in familiar territory and under terms and conditions that were well established.[31] The only substantial change was the substitution of Indian officers for British. By contrast the four regiments selected for British service faced an uncertain future in (initially) Malaya—a region where relatively few Gurkhas had previously served. The four regiments (or eight battalions) in British service have since been reduced to a single (two battalion) regiment while the Indian units have been expanded beyond their pre-Independence establishment of twelve battalions.[32]

The principal aim of the Tripartite Agreement was to ensure that Gurkhas serving under the Crown would be paid on the same scale as those serving in the new Indian Army.[33] This was significantly lower than the standard British rates of pay. While the difference is made up through cost of living and location allowances during a Gurkha's actual period of service, the pension payable on his return to Nepal is much lower than would be the case for his British counterparts.[34]

With the abolition of the Nepalese monarchy, the future recruitment of Gurkhas for British and Indian service has been put into doubt. A spokesperson for the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), which is expected to play a major role in the new secular republic, has stated that recruitment as mercenaries is degrading to the Nepalese people and will be banned.[35]

[edit]

British Army Gurkhas

Main article Brigade of Gurkhas for details of British Gurkhas since 1948

Four Gurkha regiments joined the British Army on January 1, 1948:

2nd King Edward VII's Own Gurkha Rifles (The Sirmoor Rifles)

6th Queen Elizabeth's Own Gurkha Rifles

7th Duke of Edinburgh's Own Gurkha Rifles

10th Princess Mary's Own Gurkha Rifles

They formed the Brigade of Gurkhas and were initially stationed in Malaya. There were also a number of additional Gurkha regiments including the 69th Gurkha Field Squadron and the 70th Gurkha Field Support Squadron, both of which were included in the 36th Engineer Regiment. Since then, British Gurkhas have served in Borneo during the Confrontation with Indonesia, in the Falklands conflict, and on various peacekeeping missions in Sierra Leone, East Timor, Bosnia and Kosovo.[36] They are currently serving in Afghanistan.

As of November 2006, the "Brigade of Gurkhas" in the British Army has the following units:

1st Battalion, The Royal Gurkha Rifles (1RGR)

2nd Battalion, The Royal Gurkha Rifles (2RGR)

3rd Battalion, The Royal Gurkha Rifles (3RGR) (abandoned in 1995)

Queen's Gurkha Signals which includes:

250 Gurkha Signal Squadron

246 Gurkha Signal Squadron

248 Gurkha Signal Squadron

Queen's Own Gurkha Logistics Regiment

Queen's Gurkha Engineers which includes:

69th Gurkha Field Squadron

70th Gurkha Field Squadron

In addition to these Regiments, the Brigade of Gurkhas has its own clerks and chefs who are posted among the above mentioned units.

Gurkhas in Hong Kong:

26th Gurkha Brigade (1948–1950)

51st Infantry Brigade (disbanded 1976)

48th Gurkha Infantry Brigade (1957–1976; renamed Gurkha Field Force 1976–97; returned to old title 1987–ca.1992)

[dalsingh101]

It is eye opening to see that Afghans, using traditional guerilla warfare methods, are managing to give a run for their money and demoralise the cream of western soldiery.

The periodical incidents like the above, with infiltration and desertions taking place reminds me of the story about the Pathans that were enlisted into Guru Gobind Singh's force only to desert on the eve of a battle. I think they were recommended by Buddhan Pir if I recall rightly. Point is, this seems to be an age old and very effective tactic of the Afghanis.

Does anyone think that the Europeans and Yankees will actually manage to 'tame' Afghanistan in the long run or are we witnessing another Vietnam?

Edited July 14, 2010 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

Addition:

Will the region have to contend with yet more western trained Islamic militants in future? Are some of those being trained today by goray, the terrorist leaders of tomorrow? Are some of them likely to end up in Kashmir, if and when the west leave? Are Anglos essentially stoking up yet more problems for the future like they did when they trained the Mujahadeen?

Edited July 14, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

Does anyone think that the Europeans and Yankees will actually manage to 'tame' Afghanistan in the long run or are we witnessing another Vietnam?

I don't think anyone can tame afghanistan.look at India they are trying thier level best to tame kashmiris but they are failing again and again.Last year election were held in Kashmir with very good turnout,everybody thought that Kashmir problem may end now,but suddenly in last 1-2 months valley is on boil.

India again has to deploy army

Afghanis and other jihadis are not afraid of death,they have nothing to loose now so they are the deadliest people.On the other hand american and european soldiers are just fighting for money

[tonyhp32]

The West went into Afghanistan and Iraq without any understanding of what the culture and religion is all about in these countries. Trying to 'stabilise' the country by holding elections and supporting the govt will never work in these countries. Islam and democracy are incompatible. Only a dictatorship can work in an Islamic society. Along with the troops fighting with one hand tried behind their backs with regard to not being able to engage until they are attacked. Also the liberal media does not help when it's aim is to work towards a withdrawal of western troops in order to prove that they were correct in their anti-war position. The West is in an impossible position in Afghanistan. They are training upwards to 230,000 troops who have not been vetted properly and who could at any time turn on them. When the troops use their superior firepower, the taliban will claim that 'civilians' have been killed and the coalition loses more support in the west.

With regard to the so-called unconquerable status of Afghanistan, that is essentially a myth used by opponents of the war. Afghanistan has been conquered like other countries. It has been conquered by Alexander the Great, The Persians, The Arabs, the Turks and the Mughals. Our ancestors were able to put astop to the constant invasions that the Afghans undertook into India. The British could have stayed on in Afghanistan during the 19th century but it suited their interests to have a buffer state between them and the Russian empire. The Russian could have stayed but the combination of western supplied stinger missiles and their own economy forced them to leave. Had the CIA not supported the Mujahadin and supplied them with modern weapons as well as training support the Mujahadin would have not been able to carry out their campaign until the Russians left.

[dalsingh101]

The West went into Afghanistan and Iraq without any understanding of what the culture and religion is all about in these countries. Trying to 'stabilise' the country by holding elections and supporting the govt will never work in these countries. Islam and democracy are incompatible. Only a dictatorship can work in an Islamic society. Along with the troops fighting with one hand tried behind their backs with regard to not being able to engage until they are attacked. Also the liberal media does not help when it's aim is to work towards a withdrawal of western troops in order to prove that they were correct in their anti-war position. The West is in an impossible position in Afghanistan. They are training upwards to 230,000 troops who have not been vetted properly and who could at any time turn on them. When the troops use their superior firepower, the taliban will claim that 'civilians' have been killed and the coalition loses more support in the west.

With regard to the so-called unconquerable status of Afghanistan, that is essentially a myth used by opponents of the war. Afghanistan has been conquered like other countries. It has been conquered by Alexander the Great, The Persians, The Arabs, the Turks and the Mughals. Our ancestors were able to put astop to the constant invasions that the Afghans undertook into India. The British could have stayed on in Afghanistan during the 19th century but it suited their interests to have a buffer state between them and the Russian empire. The Russian could have stayed but the combination of western supplied stinger missiles and their own economy forced them to leave. Had the CIA not supported the Mujahadin and supplied them with modern weapons as well as training support the Mujahadin would have not been able to carry out their campaign until the Russians left.

Moral of the story. Goray should stay the f out of other people's country, the bast@rds should have had enough of that with their recent imperialist jaunt over the last few centuries.

Tony if you are any sort of bundha you should respect bravery, military competence and strategy when you see it. As big a bunch of gilje those Afghans are, hats off for taking on a bigger, more modern and supposedly better prepared coalition of imperialists. They are a true warrior nation, and no one can take that away from them. And yes they are savage and would slit a kafirs neck no problem.

As you point out, goray playing politics can easily blow up in not only their own, but other nations faces as well. Like it did before with the CIA. Those against the war were right. Plus who gives a flying fart about democracy. What works for the people works. Democracy isn't suitable for everyone now is it. Look at India with her democracy, really great isn't it.......

More wilder people maybe need an autocratic leader, look at what achievements our own lot made under Ranjit Singh. Even Saddam, as crazy as he may have been, had Iraq looking good, despite all the sanctions, in comparison with India with it's bottomless begging bowl.

"baksheesh! baksheesh!" as the beggers in the old movies went.....

That all being said, all of this is a true Godsend, whilst the arseholes are busy killing each other out there, they aren't in a position to cause more problems elsewhere. May this war last a 100 years if it keeps supremacist white jerks on the one side, and savage fanatic jihadis on the other, busy with each other.

Edited July 14, 2010 by dalsingh101

[tonyhp32]

Tony if you are any sort of bundha you should respect bravery, military competence and strategy when you see it. As big a bunch of gilje those Afghans are, hats off for taking on a bigger, more modern and supposedly better prepared coalition of imperialists. They are a true warrior nation, and no one can take that away from them. And yes they are savage and would slit a kafirs neck no problem.

You seem to have a fixation with these Jehadis. To me they are basically savages who are getting the upper hand because their opponents the coalition has tied its hands up by trying to fight a war whilst respecting the 'human rights' of their opponents! Anytime the airpower of the coalition comes to play, it invariably gets presented as an attack on an Afghan 'marriage party', as if the missiles on the drones are on the 'marriage party' setting! The coalition needs a free hand to chase the Taliban into Pakistan. Obama promised this would happen but he's backed up since he became President. If they had a political and military leadership which would recognise the double game of both the Pakistani govt and army and force both to mend their ways then they might have a fighting chance of winning the war. It would require a Bush and the way he handled Mushie when he threatened him with an attack on Pakistan if he didn't join the US effort against the Taliban. Unfortunately the troops in Afghanistan have a thin skinned community organiser left wing idiot as their commander in chief! It might also help if they stopped the access they grant to the left wing media which then uses the access to write stories insinuating that the war is pretty much lost.

Moral of the story. Goray should stay the f out of other people's country, the bast@rds should have had enough of that with their recent imperialist jaunt over the last few centuries.

They are in Afghanistan to stop the country from again becoming a base for planning attacks against the west, unless of course you are a 'troother'and believe that 9/11 was an inside job to justify the Iraq and Afghanistan adventures. What can the west do apart from being in Afghanistan? If it pulls out and in order to stop the attacks puts a stop to or racially profiles anyone coming from Afghanistan or Pakistan you can imagine the left wing cries of racism and violation of human rights! It's damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. I think your 80s sterotyping of the white man is getting a bit old now. Not everything the west does has to do with controlling other peoples lands. You seem to have a very simplistic view of the west and not much understanding of the Muslim mentality. The west would love to get the f out of Afghanistan and Iraq if it wasn't for the fact that any withdrawal under the present conditions would be seen as a Muslim victory and the Afghan savages could then make another tall claim of having now beaten the other superpower.

[dalsingh101]

You seem to have a very simplistic view of the west and not much understanding of the Muslim mentality.

I could easily say the converse for you.

I'm no fan of Islam, but to fail to recognise the differences between say Iranians and Pakistanis, or say Gujeratis and Afghanistanis is simple to the point of blindness. Significant corporate differences exist like they do between Afghan Sikhs and Panjabi ones. I taught a number of Pathan students even, and some of them were pro-taliban, some anti. Plus I think I know that mentality you speak of very well, been around it a lot.

Is that what it boils down to anyway, "he who haveth the greatest military technology shall inherit the earth"?

As much as that strain of Islam we know too well seeks to dominate and dictate, so does the Anglosphere i.e. the west. Their attempts to hide this by dragging in other wannabe Europeans like the Polish would only fool the most gullible. You know yourself, if the CIA hadn't jumped in with their anti-Russian bullsh1t, things were likely to be very different in Afghanistan now. But again, that need to dominate, control etc. meant they couldn't resist interfering. Look where that has taken us now. Was not 9/11 their own chickens coming home to roost? What 'blowback' is to come in future from the current bewakoofi?

If you are (rightly) going to condemn sullay for their own strain of imperialism and attempts at the domination of others, for God's sake don't turn a blind eye to similar being done by whitey - even if they coat it with sugar. Our own people just about managed to throw that form of subjugation off their necks, even if we have ended up in another shite situation for us to work our way out of in future. A big part of the latter problem was/is due to our own clueless leadership in the recent past.

Besides, what I am suggesting to you is recognise bravery where you see it, like the Afghan who wrote Jangnama after witnessing Baba Gurbaksh Singh and his 30 Singh's shaheedi at the Akal Bunga. I'm no fan of them, but they are conducting a good campaign from a military perspective. People could learn a lot from observation.

Plus I think the policy of 'an enemy of my enemy is my friend' is the dumbest policy ever. Just because sullay may not be our yaar dost, doesn't make their vairees our mithars either. Last time sadi quom, chaal maared into the 'Hindustani' bed around partition due to sharing a common vair, didn't work out too well did it?

[tonyhp32]

The CIA wasn't interfaring as you state, it was the cold war then. Just as the Russians supported the North Vietnamese and before that the North Koreans, so the USA was supporting the Afghans in their fight against the Russians. Whether they were right in their belief that the Russian invasion was a prelude to an attack on Pakistan and a grab for a warm sea port is a matter for conjecture. The fact is that both superpowers were doing their best to dislodge each other from their areas of influence as well as stopping each other acquiring new influence in other countries. To call the 9/11 attacks blowback for the CIA helping the Afghans in the 80s is an idiotic notion put forward by the liberal left wing media. Recently there has been media reports that the 26/11 attacks on Mumbai had a connection with Islamic terrorists from Bangladesh. There are also reports that Bangladesh is becoming the next extremist Islam stronghold. Now if there are terror attacks all over India by these Bangladeshi terrorists does this become blowback for 1971 liberation of East Pakistan?

I have no great love for what the coalition is doing in Afghanistan, the British were the ones who facilitated and helped the Jehad of the wahabi Syed Ahmed against the Lahore durbar. They are getting their just desserts from another bunch of wahabi fanatics! But to claim that blowing up innocent people through suicide bomb attacks and fighting an army whose leadership has tied it up with concerns for human rights etc is not bravery. Do you think that just because some moron has been convinced through brainwashing that if he blows himself up he will end up with 72 virgins in heaven shows that he is brave or that his leaders have a war winning strategy is foolish to the extreme.

Edited July 14, 2010 by tonyhp32

[SURYADEV]

Generally related to this thread.

[dalsingh101]

The CIA wasn't interfaring as you state, it was the cold war then. Just as the Russians supported the North Vietnamese and before that the North Koreans, so the USA was supporting the Afghans in their fight against the Russians.

That is what you need to grasp. They (the west) are always 'othering' someone to make it into their nemesis. It is a feature of their society. If there is no problem they make one up or exaggerate a little one.

The fact is that both superpowers were doing their best to dislodge each other from their areas of influence as well as stopping each other acquiring new influence in other countries.

So you admit that they were both preoccupied with dominating others. That's a start.

To call the 9/11 attacks blowback for the CIA helping the Afghans in the 80s is an idiotic notion put forward by the liberal left wing media.

No it isn't. American 'hawks' concede as much.

Recently there has been media reports that the 26/11 attacks on Mumbai had a connection with Islamic terrorists from Bangladesh. There are also reports that Bangladesh is becoming the next extremist Islam stronghold. Now if there are terror attacks all over India by these Bangladeshi terrorists does this become blowback for 1971 liberation of East Pakistan?

At least India had the excuse of being neighbours and being potentially effected by outcomes there, how the eff do these white states justify interfering in places miles away from them.

I have no great love for what the coalition is doing in Afghanistan, the British were the ones who facilitated and helped the Jehad of the wahabi Syed Ahmed against the Lahore durbar. They are getting their just desserts from another bunch of wahabi fanatics!

Good, and the sooner our people realise the role of Anglos in bolstering wahabism, the better.

But to claim that blowing up innocent people through suicide bomb attacks and fighting an army whose leadership has tied it up with concerns for human rights etc is not bravery. Do you think that just because some moron has been convinced through brainwashing that if he blows himself up he will end up with 72 virgins in heaven shows that he is brave or that his leaders have a war winning strategy is foolish to the extreme.

It is also extremely foolish to imagine all of the fighters on the sullah side are motivated in this way. Not all of them are seeking their version of shaheedi and yes, they are making a much better job of their war than our lot managed in the 80s. That guy who did the attack in the OP, he wasn't a 'sooside pataka', your just simplifying it to kindergarten level. That suicide thing is one strategy in their repertoire. Plus, what you say could easily be said about say the K'stanis who blew up Beant Singh in that they were brainwashed into thinking they were going to get mukti.

Addition: If the west have their 'hands tied' by human rights concerns, it is right that they do! They are ones framing this conflict as one of progress and civility against barbarism and savageness. Given that, they can't go in heavy handed. They made their bed....

Edited July 15, 2010 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

Anyway - This is an interesting development. Turns out the suspected assassin may be affiliated to Shia Islam not Taleban Sunni flavor?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/taliban-claims-over-soldier-deaths-in-doubt-as-killer-is-linked-to-iran-2026864.html

[kdsingh80]

I think we should make difference between Iraq and Afghanistan.Iraq was/is a pure victim of american

supremacy.But presence of allied forces is a must for

Afghanistan.In dec 1999 we witnessed Indian plane hijacked to Afghanistan.Now if Allied forces leave Afghanistan and Taliban again take control of it then

how many planes from all over the world will be Hijacked to Afghanistan?

[Mithar]

I think we should make difference between Iraq and Afghanistan.Iraq was/is a pure victim of american

supremacy.But presence of allied forces is a must for

Afghanistan.In dec 1999 we witnessed Indian plane hijacked to Afghanistan.Now if Allied forces leave Afghanistan and Taliban again take control of it then

how many planes from all over the world will be Hijacked to Afghanistan?

That is also true. I agree that unlike Afghanistan, the nation of Iraq is purely a victim of American imperialism. That nation was invaded and destroyed for no reason. But afghanistan is a different case. They gave shelter to Al Qaida which brought down the twin towers, because of this they were just asking for an invasion. I don't blame America for invading Afghanistan initially. But I do blame them for not conducting the war properly.

Although Pathans are a brave people, but to say that they cannot be conquered is also not true. Before Ahmad Shah Abdali they were always an occupied nation, mostly under various Turkic warlords from Central Asia or Persians from Iran. Then Sikhs occupied the NW Frontier, and the British managed to bind Sikhs in so many treaties that prevented Sikhs from making further conquests into Afghanistan. When the British took over the NW frontier, they or the Russians from the north could have easily taken over Afghanistan, but Afghanistan was agreed upon as a buffer state between the two European Empires, this is the great game. When Russians invaded in the 80s, they had almost eliminated the entire Mujahideen rebellion, but the American then began supplying the stinger missiles which decisively turned the war in favour of the rebels. Muslim lands can be conquered and occupied, Russians have done it in Central Asia, the Spanish did it in Spain, the Chinese did it(and still doing it) in Xingiang, Sikhs and Marathas did it in India. The Sikh Kingdom for example was a majority Muslim state. Sikhs were no more than 15% of the population of the Sikh state.

[dalsingh101]

I think we should make difference between Iraq and Afghanistan.Iraq was/is a pure victim of american

supremacy.But presence of allied forces is a must for

Afghanistan.In dec 1999 we witnessed Indian plane hijacked to Afghanistan.Now if Allied forces leave Afghanistan and Taliban again take control of it then

how many planes from all over the world will be Hijacked to Afghanistan?

How long does India expect to hide behind the west to stop it being pushed around?

[kdsingh80]

How long does India expect to hide behind the west to stop it being pushed around?

So what do you think India should do? Attack Pakistan and get nuked.Recently there was a report that pakistan has more nuclear warheads Than India,.A full scale war between India and pakistan will mean that entire North

India and pakistan get wiped out and massive destruction.

[chatanga1]

When the British took over the NW frontier, they or the Russians from the north could have easily taken over Afghanistan, but Afghanistan was agreed upon as a buffer state between the two European Empires, this is the great game.

this agreement between the brits and the russians created the artifical boundaries of todays afghanistan, lumping tajiks and uzbeks with the pashtuns.

[SURYADEV]

An example of fighting with one hand tied behind your back:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1295617/Gurkha-ordered-UK-beheading-dead-Taliban-fighter.html?ITO=1708&referrer=yahoo#

Gurkha ordered back to UK after beheading dead Taliban fighter

By Christopher Leake

Last updated at 5:58 PM on 18th July 2010

A Gurkha soldier has been flown back to the UK after hacking the head off a dead Taliban commander with his ceremonial knife to prove the dead man’s identity.

The private, from 1st Battalion, Royal Gurkha Rifles, was involved in a fierce firefight with insurgents in the Babaji area of central Helmand Province when the incident took place earlier this month.

His unit had been told that they were seeking a ‘high value target,’ a Taliban commander, and that they must prove they had killed the right man.

The Gurkhas had intended to remove the Taliban leader’s body from the battlefield for identification purposes.

But they came under heavy fire as their tried to do so. Military sources said that in the heat of battle, the Gurkha took out his curved kukri knife and beheaded the dead insurgent.

He is understood to have removed the man’s head from the area, leaving the rest of his body on the battlefield.

This is considered a gross insult to the Muslims of Afghanistan, who bury the entire body of their dead even if parts have to be retrieved.

British soldiers often return missing body parts once a battle has ended so the dead can be buried in one piece.

A source said: ‘Removing the head in this way was totally inappropriate.’

Army sources said that the soldier, who is in his early 20s, initially told investigators that he unsheathed his kukri – the symbolic weapon of the Gurkhas – after running out of ammunition.

But later the Taliban fighter was mutilated so his identity could be verified through DNA tests.

The source said: ‘The soldier has been removed from duty and flown home. There is no sense of glory involved here, more a sense of shame. He should not have done what he did.’

The incident, which is being investigated by senior commanders, is hugely embarrassing to the British Army, which is trying to build bridges with local Afghan communities who have spent decades under Taliban rule.

It comes just days after a rogue Afghan soldier murdered three British troops from the same Gurkha regiment.

If the Gurkha being investigated by the Army is found guilty of beheading the dead enemy soldier, he will have contravened the Geneva Conventions which dictate the rules of war. Soldiers are banned from demeaning their enemies.

The Gurkha now faces disciplinary action and a possible court martial. If found guilty, he could be jailed.

He is now confined to barracks at the Shorncliffe garrison, near Folkestone, Kent.

The incident happened as the Gurkha troop was advancing towards a hostile area before engaging the enemy in battle.

Colonel Richard Kemp, a former commander of British forces in Afghanistan, said: ‘In this case, it appears that the soldier was not acting maliciously, but his actions were clearly ill-judged.

‘The Gurkhas are a very fine regiment with a proud tradition of service in the British forces and have fought very bravely in Afghanistan.

'I have no doubt that this behaviour would be as strongly condemned by the other members of that regiment, as it would by all soldiers in the British forces.’

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: ‘We are aware of an incident and have informed the Afghan authorities. An inves-t igation is underway and it would not be appropriate to comment further until this is concluded.’

The Ministry also revealed yesterday that four British servicemen had been killed in Afghanistan in 24 hours.

An airman from the RAF Regiment died in a road accident near Camp Bastion in Helmand and a marine from 40 Commando Royal Marines was killed in an explosion in Sangin on Friday.

A Royal Dragoon Guard died in a blast in the Nahr-e Saraj district of Helmand Province yesterday. The fourth serviceman also died in an explosion.

The British death toll in the Afghan campaign since 2001 is now 322.

Afghan troops trained by the British Army recently led a major operation into a Taliban stronghold.

It was one of the first operations organised by the Afghan National Army.

Regiment’s proud symbol of valour

The iconic kukri knife used by the Gurkhas can be a weapon or a tool. It is the traditional utility knife of the Nepalese people, but is mainly known as a symbolic weapon for Gurkha regiments all over the world.

The kukri signifies courage and valour on the battlefield and is sometimes worn by bridegrooms during their wedding ceremony.

The kukri’s heavy blade enables the user to inflict deep wounds and to cut muscle and bone with one stroke.

It can also be used in stealth operations to slash an enemy’s throat, killing him instantly and silently.

[Mithar]

An example of fighting with one hand tied behind your back:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1295617/Gurkha-ordered-UK-beheading-dead-Taliban-fighter.html?ITO=1708&referrer=yahoo#

Gurkha ordered back to UK after beheading dead Taliban fighter

By Christopher Leake

Last updated at 5:58 PM on 18th July 2010

A Gurkha soldier has been flown back to the UK after hacking the head off a dead Taliban commander with his ceremonial knife to prove the dead man’s identity.

The private, from 1st Battalion, Royal Gurkha Rifles, was involved in a fierce firefight with insurgents in the Babaji area of central Helmand Province when the incident took place earlier this month.

His unit had been told that they were seeking a ‘high value target,’ a Taliban commander, and that they must prove they had killed the right man.

The Gurkhas had intended to remove the Taliban leader’s body from the battlefield for identification purposes.

But they came under heavy fire as their tried to do so. Military sources said that in the heat of battle, the Gurkha took out his curved kukri knife and beheaded the dead insurgent.

He is understood to have removed the man’s head from the area, leaving the rest of his body on the battlefield.

This is considered a gross insult to the Muslims of Afghanistan, who bury the entire body of their dead even if parts have to be retrieved.

British soldiers often return missing body parts once a battle has ended so the dead can be buried in one piece.

A source said: ‘Removing the head in this way was totally inappropriate.’

Army sources said that the soldier, who is in his early 20s, initially told investigators that he unsheathed his kukri – the symbolic weapon of the Gurkhas – after running out of ammunition.

But later the Taliban fighter was mutilated so his identity could be verified through DNA tests.

The source said: ‘The soldier has been removed from duty and flown home. There is no sense of glory involved here, more a sense of shame. He should not have done what he did.’

The incident, which is being investigated by senior commanders, is hugely embarrassing to the British Army, which is trying to build bridges with local Afghan communities who have spent decades under Taliban rule.

It comes just days after a rogue Afghan soldier murdered three British troops from the same Gurkha regiment.

If the Gurkha being investigated by the Army is found guilty of beheading the dead enemy soldier, he will have contravened the Geneva Conventions which dictate the rules of war. Soldiers are banned from demeaning their enemies.

The Gurkha now faces disciplinary action and a possible court martial. If found guilty, he could be jailed.

He is now confined to barracks at the Shorncliffe garrison, near Folkestone, Kent.

The incident happened as the Gurkha troop was advancing towards a hostile area before engaging the enemy in battle.

Colonel Richard Kemp, a former commander of British forces in Afghanistan, said: ‘In this case, it appears that the soldier was not acting maliciously, but his actions were clearly ill-judged.

‘The Gurkhas are a very fine regiment with a proud tradition of service in the British forces and have fought very bravely in Afghanistan.

'I have no doubt that this behaviour would be as strongly condemned by the other members of that regiment, as it would by all soldiers in the British forces.’

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: ‘We are aware of an incident and have informed the Afghan authorities. An inves-t igation is underway and it would not be appropriate to comment further until this is concluded.’

The Ministry also revealed yesterday that four British servicemen had been killed in Afghanistan in 24 hours.

An airman from the RAF Regiment died in a road accident near Camp Bastion in Helmand and a marine from 40 Commando Royal Marines was killed in an explosion in Sangin on Friday.

A Royal Dragoon Guard died in a blast in the Nahr-e Saraj district of Helmand Province yesterday. The fourth serviceman also died in an explosion.

The British death toll in the Afghan campaign since 2001 is now 322.

Afghan troops trained by the British Army recently led a major operation into a Taliban stronghold.

It was one of the first operations organised by the Afghan National Army.

Regiment’s proud symbol of valour

The iconic kukri knife used by the Gurkhas can be a weapon or a tool. It is the traditional utility knife of the Nepalese people, but is mainly known as a symbolic weapon for Gurkha regiments all over the world.

The kukri signifies courage and valour on the battlefield and is sometimes worn by bridegrooms during their wedding ceremony.

The kukri’s heavy blade enables the user to inflict deep wounds and to cut muscle and bone with one stroke.

It can also be used in stealth operations to slash an enemy’s throat, killing him instantly and silently.

Someone on that site wrote on the comments section:

"This is considered a gross insult to the Muslims of Afghanistan, who bury the entire body of their dead even if parts have to be retrieved.

Political correctness and the battlefield really don't go together. If they are so concerned about being buried in one piece why do they blow themselves to bits?"

- David, London UK, 18/7/2010 08:38