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Marrying Your Cousin Not A Good Idea......


dalsingh101

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Learn to respect others views and be a bit more broad minded. Your point of view is not necessarily the truth.

I don't think behaviour such as yours will bring any change at all. This is Sikhi not Wahhabi Islam. Don't bother replying, my last post in this thread.

It isn't a microcosm of Mir Manu's caste ridden Hinduism either but we're getting there thanks to indifferent people.

Edited by dalsingh101
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Learn to respect others views and be a bit more broad minded. Your point of view is not necessarily the truth.

I don't think behaviour such as yours will bring any change at all. This is Sikhi not Wahhabi Islam. Don't bother replying, my last post in this thread.

I believe there are things in Sikhi that are not discussable. This is one of them.

I will not respect any view of pro-casteism.

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One moment you say "we need to tell our people 'wtf!' about how they go on about stuff like this", then when someone does, you come out with the above crap.

Well done.

Judging by how you dealt with londondajatt I dont think you have a clue about how to go about anything. My above quoted statement referred to casteists who are public about their beliefs and actually big it up. LDJ has run rings around most of you and led to the derailing of another thread. Well done.

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Mir Manu??? wasn't he a Muslim?

Yes you are right. Sorry I meant the bloke that wrote Manusmitri.

My bad.

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Judging by how you dealt with londondajatt I dont think you have a clue about how to go about anything. My above quoted statement referred to casteists who are public about their beliefs and actually big it up. LDJ has run rings around most of you and led to the derailing of another thread. Well done.

Well ambiguous posts will do that.

Besides Londondabahmanvadi isn't fooling anyone. If anything he's provided a text book example of the typical casteists agenda and their tactics for all to clearly see.

His post reeks of the desperation people of his ilk must be feeling right now as their carefully constructed caste structure takes a serious battering in the UK. But still they cling to it. As if ignoring all the deep, unnecessary problems jaat paatism has brought to our society wasn't enough, he even closes his eyes to the answer to his dilemma in bani.

The main policy towards casteists should be ridicule and exclusion. They should sod off and form their own insular 'master race' somewhere outside of Sikhi or make serious efforts to overcome their petty ignorance.

Edited by dalsingh101
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Firstly if you all feel so passionate about this issue, go create another thread instead of ruining yet another thread. Have some control in your behaviour!

See, this is a perfect example of how a casteist comes along and instead of trying to discuss anything lofty regarding the faith, or anything that might help us better ourselves - wants to find justification for their casteism. Even when you post bani that unequivocally explains why they shouldn't they are still trying to find some 'technical clause'. lol You see this frequently, next he'll be pulling the 'it's an ethnicity not caste' card in desperation.

Giving these people ANY leeway is a mistake because they only have one purpose which is to find some way of justifying what they do.

Ok now explain to me how I have been casteist, and which caste have I been casteist against?

It won't take a day or two or a month, it will probably take decades. But there's no guarantee that we can bring a positive change in the Panth, but we can try. Rome wasn't built in a day either.

At the end of the day, people who didn't give up trying to abolish the caste system amongst Sikhs, those who did parchaar and spend time to educate people can at least say that they tried to change it.

lol decades, it will probably take less in the uk, I doubt there will be much caste or tribal affiliations left in the UK sikh community in the next decade or so. But then again, a lot of people will probably be mixing with people of other backgrounds that don't follow Guru jis at all, truly multi-ethnic.

Listen, I don't care if you worship a cow, if you worship some self-pronounced Guru, if you're an atheist or whatever you are or whatever you do in your life. I told you to go to an amrit sanchar because I thought you could talk to the panj piare and they can put some sense into your head. Because it's obvious that the shabads we have posted here isn't enough for you even though it has a really clear message. If you was a retard and therefore don't understand the messages of our Guru's I'd say okay, but since you are not what is your excuse then?

The message from Guru ji is about pride and arrogance, now where have I been proud and arrogant in my posts? Also, panj pyaray need to have some lineage to Guru Gobind ~Singh, otherwise we might as well start asking the satt sitaray or whataver that Sacha Sauda Baba's version is called! You don't just go ask randomn people and sects that nihang Khalsa calls pakhandis now do you? I think the self-proclaimed Guru thing is something you need to think about the kinda sects you are mentioning panj pyaray from!

I believe there are things in Sikhi that are not discussable. This is one of them.

I will not respect any view of pro-casteism.

If they are not discussable, then how the heck have you made many pages of posts in this thread?

What is pro-casteism, and who is guilty of hating on someone's caste in this thread?

Well ambiguous posts will do that.

Besides Londondabahmanvadi isn't fooling anyone. If anything he's provided a text book example of the typical casteists agenda and their tactics for all to clearly see.

His post reeks of the desperation people of his ilk must be feeling right now as their carefully constructed caste structure takes a serious battering in the UK. But still they cling to it. As if ignoring all the deep, unnecessary problems jaat paatism has brought to our society wasn't enough, he even closes his eyes to the answer to his dilemma in bani.

The main policy towards casteists should be ridicule and exclusion. They should sod off and form their own insular 'master race' somewhere outside of Sikhi or make serious efforts to overcome their petty ignorance.

lol bahmanvadi? Now you are cracking me up haha For your information I even believe in Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth Sahib, I have parosa in Guru's bani, do you? And again I repeat, casteism against which individual, against which caste?

lol carefully constructed caste structure? You are making me out to be some Brahmin now eh? I dunno about clinging onto caste, but I do know about clinging on to dharm, sanskar, reet, rawaj, respecting parents and ancestors is also dharam, the alternative is adharm!

Sikhi + adharm = imcompatible!

casteists agenda? haha

Its not the "casteists" as you call them that are trying to make a Master Race, it it those that are against multiculturalism that are trying to make a master race, even twisting the words of Guru Gobind Singh to do it, ie hiding parts of this shabad (excuse the inaccurate translations, I got them off a website):

ਕੋਊ ਭਇਓ ਮੁੰਡੀਆ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਕੋਊ ਜੋਗੀ ਭਇਓ ਕੋਊ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਚਾਰੀ ਕੋਊ ਜਤੀ ਅਨੁਮਾਨਬੋ ॥

कोऊ भइओ मुंडीआ संनिआसी कोऊ जोगी भइओ कोऊ ब्रहमचारी कोऊ जती अनुमानबो ॥

Somebody became a Bairagi (recluse), somebody a Sannyasi (mendicant). Somebody a Yogi, somebody a Brahmchari (student observing celibacy) and someone is considered a celibate.

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕੋਊ ਰਾਫਜੀ ਇਮਾਮ ਸਾਫੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ ॥

हिंदू तुरक कोऊ राफजी इमाम साफी मानस की जाति सबै एकै पहिचानबो ॥

Someone is Hindu and someone a Muslim, then someone is Shia, and someone a Sunni, but all the human beings, as a species, are recognized as one and the same.

ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੀਮ ਸੋਈ ਰਾਜਕ ਰਹੀਮ ਓਈ ਦੂਸਰੋ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਭੂਲਿ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਮਾਨਬੋ ॥

करता करीम सोई राजक रहीम ओई दूसरो न भेद कोई भूलि भ्रम मानबो ॥

Karta (The Creator) and Karim (Merciful) is the same Lord, Razak (The Sustainer) and Rahim (Compassionate) is the same Lord, there is no other second, therefore consider this verbal distinguishing feature of Hinduism and Islam as an error and an illusion.

ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਜੋਤ ਜਾਨਬੋ ॥੧੫॥੮੫॥

एक ही की सेव सभ ही को गुरदेव एक एक ही सरूप सबै एकै जोत जानबो ॥१५॥८५॥

Thus worship the ONE LORD, who is the common enlightener of all; all have been created in His Image and amongst all comprehend the same ONE LIGHT. 15.85.

Simple question: LDJ, do you consider yourself a sikh? If yes, then you cant believe in caste in any form. If no, then you're no different to the other non-sikh nutters who hang around on Sikh Awareness.

Of course I am sikh. I haven;t said I follow caste or whatever. However I do follow sanskar, dharam, reet, rawaz. All these things help support dharam. This thread and another I have been accused of casteism, now I have no idea which caste I was casteist against?

Edited by londondajatt
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Of course I am sikh. I haven;t said I follow caste or whatever. However I do follow sanskar, dharam, reet, rawaz. All these things help support dharam. This thread and another I have been accused of casteism, now I have no idea which caste I was casteist against?

You dont follow caste? So what does caste mean to you?

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You dont follow caste? So what does caste mean to you?

I am human first, but I also follow traditions, reet, rawaz, sanskar, culture, and respect my parents; things that uphold dharam. If someone wants to say I follow caste becayse of these dharmik things, so be it. Now they should ask themselves if they are following sanskar and dharam, or adharm?

In one aspect, caste for indians can be used to describe the 4 varans; brahmin, kshatriya, shudr, vaishya.

But caste can be just a label just like religion, race, nationality, etc etc....

Many people I have seen accusing others of following caste are usually proud and arrogant of being sikh or amrit-shak, and then there's people who also lack sanskar and dharam. I also doubt caste-accusers follow the following bani of Guru Gobind Singh properly anyway, instead picking and choosing parts of lines that suit them, pakhandis!

ਕੋਊ ਭਇਓ ਮੁੰਡੀਆ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਕੋਊ ਜੋਗੀ ਭਇਓ ਕੋਊ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਚਾਰੀ ਕੋਊ ਜਤੀ ਅਨੁਮਾਨਬੋ ॥

कोऊ भइओ मुंडीआ संनिआसी कोऊ जोगी भइओ कोऊ ब्रहमचारी कोऊ जती अनुमानबो ॥

Somebody became a Bairagi (recluse), somebody a Sannyasi (mendicant). Somebody a Yogi, somebody a Brahmchari (student observing celibacy) and someone is considered a celibate.

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕੋਊ ਰਾਫਜੀ ਇਮਾਮ ਸਾਫੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ ॥

हिंदू तुरक कोऊ राफजी इमाम साफी मानस की जाति सबै एकै पहिचानबो ॥

Someone is Hindu and someone a Muslim, then someone is Shia, and someone a Sunni, but all the human beings, as a species, are recognized as one and the same.

ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੀਮ ਸੋਈ ਰਾਜਕ ਰਹੀਮ ਓਈ ਦੂਸਰੋ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਭੂਲਿ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਮਾਨਬੋ ॥

करता करीम सोई राजक रहीम ओई दूसरो न भेद कोई भूलि भ्रम मानबो ॥

Karta (The Creator) and Karim (Merciful) is the same Lord, Razak (The Sustainer) and Rahim (Compassionate) is the same Lord, there is no other second, therefore consider this verbal distinguishing feature of Hinduism and Islam as an error and an illusion.

ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਜੋਤ ਜਾਨਬੋ ॥੧੫॥੮੫॥

एक ही की सेव सभ ही को गुरदेव एक एक ही सरूप सबै एकै जोत जानबो ॥१५॥८५॥

Thus worship the ONE LORD, who is the common enlightener of all; all have been created in His Image and amongst all comprehend the same ONE LIGHT. 15.85.

Also people like dalsingh101 don't earn any respect from the kinda language he uses. No one is gonna take him seriously, because he has no respect in the way he chats. Not the way Guru da sikh talks. Dalsingh go to to Guru ji and learn how to speak in a respectable fashion! I don't see the point in you preaching until you do. Also you aren;t going to learn good language from hanging around sikhsangat forum. They show themselves as Guru deh sikh fighting for the panth but their hearts are black and hateful! kaleh dil waleh, nafrat waleh. Guru deh Singh edha deh nahi, annakh honi chaeedee bandeh wich.

Ehme nee har walii chee chee karee da. Guru da sikh nyaney bachey wanguu chee chee nee karda din raat!!

Edited by londondajatt
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Ok so you categorically deny that you dont believe in caste in order to allude to superiority. But it's not exactly tradition either is it? Like most of us have done jobs we dont like, to have our descendants bracket themselves using it would seem stupid to me. If you mean jatt by race, we cant prove that can we? Most of us are ethnically Punjabi and probably have genes similar to other south asians or people from the north india region.

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Ok so you categorically deny that you dont believe in caste in order to allude to superiority. But it's not exactly tradition either is it? Like most of us have done jobs we dont like, to have our descendants bracket themselves using it would seem stupid to me. If you mean jatt by race, we cant prove that can we? Most of us are ethnically Punjabi and probably have genes similar to other south asians or people from the north india region.

Well by tradition I would be a Doaba Jatt. So, my traditions and language slighlty differ from even jatts from Majha and Malwa. And then also as a jatt in the pend, our culture differed from other families and residents living in the pend, it sill differs even now, I was in the pend just a few years ago. Jatts, tarkhans, and some other backgrounds give more preference to gurdwara than those of poorer backgrounds seem to prefer Mandir. Other cultural differences can be seen during collective functions such as weddings. Also even langauages, where we use persianised forms with letters like "sh", the poorer backgrounds will pronounce words differently with a "s" instead. In bani you can view words that are used by poorer backgrounds in Punjab which are also used in non-punjabi regions.

Of course, collectively, the punjabi pendoos culture differs greatly from the bhaiayas living on the outskirts of the pends.

Even the culture between pendoos and sharieyaas is different, where pendoos are more reserved and careful about children and jawan teens/adults going out and getting corrupted or getting in the wrong crowd (Although this is what's happening now anyway, uneducated as well as college goers).

Also being jatt doesn't make me superior, only as an individual collectively with what I learn from my culture, traditions, sanskar, dharam, as well as what I learn from society and even TV + internet, can I become a higher thinker. Instead of crying and sulking about others backgrounds, we should become high thinkers. I think theres something in bani about that as well. Even "Mann jeetey jag jeetey" comes to mind.

Look at yourselves before looking at other is what I can say!...

ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥

सवैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਕੋ ਪੂਤ ਹੌ ਬਾਮਨ ਕੋ ਨਹਿ ਕੈ ਤਪੁ ਆਵਤ ਹੈ ਜੁ ਕਰੋ ॥ ਅਰੁ ਅਉਰ ਜੰਜਾਰ ਜਿਤੋ ਗ੍ਰਹਿ ਕੋ ਤੁਹਿ ਤਿਆਗ ਕਹਾ ਚਿਤ ਤਾ ਮੈ ਧਰੋ ॥

छत्री को पूत हौ बामन को नहि कै तपु आवत है जु करो ॥ अरु अउर जंजार जितो ग्रहि को तुहि तिआग कहा चित ता मै धरो ॥

I am the son of a Kshatriya and not of a Brahmin who may instruct for performing severe austerities; how can I absorb myself in the embarrassments of the world by leaving you;

ਅਬ ਰੀਝ ਕੈ ਦੇਹੁ ਵਹੈ ਹਮ ਕਉ ਜੋਊ ਹਉ ਬਿਨਤੀ ਕਰ ਜੋਰ ਕਰੋ ॥ ਜਬ ਆਉ ਕੀ ਅਉਧ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਬਨੈ ਅਤਿਹੀ ਰਨ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਜੂਝ ਮਰੋ ॥੨੪੮੯॥

अब रीझ कै देहु वहै हम कउ जोऊ हउ बिनती कर जोर करो ॥ जब आउ की अउध निदान बनै अतिही रन मै तब जूझ मरो ॥२४८९॥

Whatever request I am making with my folded hands, O Lord ! kindly be graceful and bestow this boon on me that when ever my end comes, then I may die fighting in the battlefield.2489.

_________________

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

चौपई ॥

CHAUPAI

ਸ਼ੰਕਰ ਬਰਨ ਪ੍ਰਜਾ ਸਭ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਜਗਤ ਨ ਦੇਖੀਐ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਐਸੇ ਮਤ ਕੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਸੂਦ੍ਰਤਾ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੦॥

शंकर बरन प्रजा सभ होई ॥ छत्री जगत न देखीऐ कोई ॥ एक एक ऐसे मत कै है ॥ जा ते प्रापत सूद्रता ह्वै है ॥१०॥

The subjects will become hybrid and no Kshatriya will be seen in the whole world; all will do such things that they will all become Shudras.10.

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਮਤ ਦੁਹੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਹਰਿ ਕਰ ॥ ਚਲਿ ਹੈ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਮਤ ਘਰ ਘਰ ॥ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਕੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਨ ਗਹਿ ਹੈ ॥ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਕੇ ਸੰਗ ਨ ਰਹਿ ਹੈ ॥੧੧॥

हिंदू तुरक मत दुहूं प्रहरि कर ॥ चलि है भिंन भिंन मत घर घर ॥ एक एक के मंत्र न गहि है ॥ एक एक के संग न रहि है ॥११॥

Hinduism and Islam will be relinquished and in every home there will be diverse beliefs; no one will listen to the ideas of another one; on one will remain with anyone.11.

ਆਪ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਹੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਨੀਚ ਊਚ ਕਹ ਸੀਸ ਨ ਨੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਮਤ ਇਕ ਇਕ ਧਾਮਾ ॥ ਘਰ ਘਰ ਹੋਇ ਬੈਠ ਹੈ ਰਾਮਾ ॥੧੨॥

आप आप पारब्रहम कहै है ॥ नीच ऊच कह सीस न नै है ॥ एक एक मत इक इक धामा ॥ घर घर होइ बैठ है रामा ॥१२॥

All will proclaim themselves as Lord and no younger one will bow before the elder one; in every house will be born such people who will declare themselves as Ram.12.

ਪੜਿ ਹੈ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਭੂਲ ਪੁਰਾਨਾ ॥ ਕੋਊ ਨ ਪਕਰ ਹੈ ਪਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨਾ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਜਵਨ ਕਰਿ ਲਹਿ ਹੈ ॥ ਤਾਕਹ ਗੋਬਰਾਗਨ ਮੋ ਦਹਿ ਹੈ ॥੧੩॥

पड़ि है कोई न भूल पुराना ॥ कोऊ न पकर है पान कुराना ॥ बेद कतेब जवन करि लहि है ॥ ताकह गोबरागन मो दहि है ॥१३॥

No one will study Puranas even by mistake and will not catch the holy Quran in his hand; he, who will catch the Vedas and Katebs, he will be killed by burning him in the fire of cowdung.13.

ਚਲੀ ਪਾਪ ਕੀ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਨੀ ॥ ਭਾਜਾ ਧਰਮ ਛਾਡ ਰਜਧਾਨੀ ॥ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਘਰ ਘਰ ਮਤ ਚਲਾ ॥ ਯਾ ਤੇ ਧਰਮ ਭਰਮ ਉਡ ਟਲਾ ॥੧੪॥

चली पाप की जगत कहानी ॥ भाजा धरम छाड रजधानी ॥ भिंन भिंन घर घर मत चला ॥ या ते धरम भरम उड टला ॥१४॥

The story of sin will become prevalent in the whole world and the dharma will flee from the hearts of the people; there will be different beliefs in homes which cause the dharma and love to fly away.14.

ਏਕ ਏਕ ਮਤ ਐਸਉ ਚੈਹੈ ॥ ਜਾਤੇ ਸਕਲ ਸੂਦ੍ਰ ਹੁਇ ਜੈਹੈ ॥ ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨ ਰਹਾ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਸ਼ੰਕਰ ਬਰਨ ਪ੍ਰਜਾ ਸਭ ਹੋਈ ॥੧੫॥

एक एक मत ऐसउ चैहै ॥ जाते सकल सूद्र हुइ जैहै ॥ छत्री ब्रहमन रहा न कोई ॥ शंकर बरन प्रजा सभ होई ॥१५॥

Such notions will become prevalent that all will become Shudras; there will be no Kshatriyas and Brahmins and all the subjects will become hybrid.15.

ਸੂਦ੍ਰ ਧਾਮ ਬਸਿ ਹੈਂ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨੀ ॥ ਬਈਸ ਨਾਰ ਹੋਇ ਹੈ ਛੱਤ੍ਰਨੀ ॥ ਬਸਿ ਹੈ ਛੱਤ੍ਰ ਧਾਮ ਬੈਸਾਨੀ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨ ਗ੍ਰਹਿ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸੂਦ੍ਰਾਨੀ ॥੧੬॥

सूद्र धाम बसि हैं ब्रहमनी ॥ बईस नार होइ है छ्त्रनी ॥ बसि है छ्त्र धाम बैसानी ॥ ब्रहमन ग्रहि इसत्री सूद्रानी ॥१६॥

The Brahmin-women will live with Shudras; the Vaishya-women will reside in the homes of Kshatriyas and the Kshatriya-women in the homes of Vaishyas; the Shudra-women will be in the homes of Brahmins.16.

ਏਕ ਧਰਮ ਪਰ ਪ੍ਰਜਾ ਨ ਚਲ ਹੈ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਦੋਊ ਮਤ ਦਲ ਹੈ ॥ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਮਤ ਘਰ ਘਰ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਏਕ ਪੈਂਡ ਚਲਹੈ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥੧੭॥

एक धरम पर प्रजा न चल है ॥ बेद कतेब दोऊ मत दल है ॥ भिंन भिंन मत घर घर होई ॥ एक पैंड चलहै नही कोई ॥१७॥

The subjects will not follow only one religion, and there will be disobedience to both the scriptures of Hinduism and Semitic religion; various religions will be prevelant in various homes and none will follow the one and the same path.17.

__________________

ਗੀਤਾ ਮਾਲਤੀ ਛੰਦ ॥

गीता मालती छंद ॥

GITA MALTI STANZA

ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਮਤੋ ਘਰੋ ਘਰ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਚਲਾਇ ਹੈ ॥ ਐਂਡ ਬੈਂਡ ਫਿਰੈ ਸਭੈ ਸਿਰ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਨ ਨਯਾਇ ਹੈ ॥

भिंन भिंन मतो घरो घर एक एक चलाइ है ॥ ऐंड बैंड फिरै सभै सिर एक एक न नयाइ है ॥

When various religions will prevail in every home and all will walk in their pride and none of them will bow before any other;

ਪੁਨ ਅਉਰ ਅਉਰ ਨਏ ਨਏ ਮਤ ਮਾਸ ਮਾਸ ਉਚਾਂਹਿਗੇ ॥ ਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਰਨ ਪੀਰ ਕੌ ਨਹੀ ਭੂਲ ਪੂਜਨ ਜਾਂਹਿਗੇ ॥੧੮॥

पुन अउर अउर नए नए मत मास मास उचांहिगे ॥ देव पितरन पीर कौ नही भूल पूजन जांहिगे ॥१८॥

There will be the birth of new religions every year and the people even by mistake will not worship gods, manes and pirs.18.

ਦੇਵ ਪੀਰ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਕੈ ਪਰਮੇਸ੍ਰ ਆਪ ਕਹਾਂਹਿਗੇ ॥ ਨਰ ਭਾਂਤ ਭਾਂਤਨ ਏਕ ਕੋ ਜੁਰ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਉਡਾਂਹਿਗੇ ॥

देव पीर बिसार कै परमेस्र आप कहांहिगे ॥ नर भांत भांतन एक को जुर एक एक उडांहिगे ॥

Forgetting the gods and Pirs, the people will call themselves God; several kinds of people will get together and spread various types of rumours;

ਏਕ ਮਾਸ ਦੁਮਾਸ ਲੌ ਅਧ ਮਾਸ ਲੌ ਤ ਚਲਾਂਹਿਗੇ ॥ ਅੰਤ ਬੂਬਰ ਪਾਨ ਜਿਉ ਮਤ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਮਿਟ ਜਾਂਹਿਗੇ ॥੧੯॥

एक मास दुमास लौ अध मास लौ त चलांहिगे ॥ अंत बूबर पान जिउ मत आप ही मिट जांहिगे ॥१९॥

These new religions will continue for one or two month or even half a month and will ultimately end themselves lie the bubbles of water.19.

ਬੇਦ ਅਉਰ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੇ ਦੋ ਦੂਖ ਕੈ ਮਤ ਡਾਰ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਹਿਤ ਆਪਨੇ ਤਿਹ ਠਉਰ ਭੀਤਰ ਜੰਤ੍ਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਉਚਾਰ ਹੈਂ ॥

बेद अउर कतेब के दो दूख कै मत डार हैं ॥ हित आपने तिह ठउर भीतर जंत्र मंत्र उचार हैं ॥

Finding faults will the religions of Vedas and Katebs, they will be forsaken and the people will recite mantras and yantras according to their onw interest;

ਮੁਖ ਬੇਦ ਅਉਰ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੇ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਮ ਲੇਵ ਨ ਦੇਹਗੇ ॥ ਕਿਸਹੂੰ ਨ ਕਉਡੀ ਪੁੰਨ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਕਿਉ ਹੀ ਦੇਹਗੇ ॥੨੦॥

मुख बेद अउर कतेब के कोई नाम लेव न देहगे ॥ किसहूं न कउडी पुंन ते कबहूं न किउ ही देहगे ॥२०॥

People will not be allowed ot utter the names of Vedas and Katebs and no one will give even a cowrie in charity.20.

ਪਾਪ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੈ ਜਹਾਂ ਤਹਾਂ ਧਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਕੈ ॥ ਨਹੀ ਦ੍ਰਬ ਦੇਖਤ ਛੋਡ ਹੈ ਲੈ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਸੰਘਾਰ ਕੈ ॥

पाप करम करै जहां तहां धरम करम बिसार कै ॥ नही द्रब देखत छोड है लै पुत्र मित्र संघार कै ॥

Forgetting the actions of Dharma, the sinful actions will be committed and the money will be procured even by killing the son or friend;

ਏਕ ਨੇਕ ਉਠਾਇ ਹੈ ਮਤਿ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਦਿਨੰ ਦਿਨਾ ॥ ਫੋਕਟੇ ਧਰਮੰ ਸਭੈ ਕਲਿ ਕੇਵਲੰ ਪ੍ਰਭਣੰ ਬਿਨਾ ॥੨੧॥

एक नेक उठाइ है मति भिंन भिंन दिनं दिना ॥ फोकटे धरमं सभै कलि केवलं प्रभणं बिना ॥२१॥

New religions will arise always and these religions will be hollow without the name of the Lord.21.

ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਚਲੈ ਕੋਊ ਮਤ ਦੋਇ ਦਿਉਸ ਚਲਾਹਿਗੇ ॥ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਜੋਰ ਕ੍ਰੋਰ ਕਰੋਰ ਕੈ ਦਿਨ ਤੀਸਰੈ ਮਿਟ ਜਾਹਿਗੇ ॥

एक दिवस चलै कोऊ मत दोइ दिउस चलाहिगे ॥ न्रिप जोर क्रोर करोर कै दिन तीसरै मिट जाहिगे ॥

Some religions will continue for one or two days and on the third day these religions taking birth on account of power will die their own death;

ਪੁਨ ਅਉਰ ਅਉਰ ਉਚਾਹਗੇ ਮਤਣੋਗਤੰ ਚਤੁਰਥ ਦਿਨੰ ॥ ਧਰਮ ਫੋਕਟਣੋ ਸਭੰ ਇਕ ਕੇਵਲੰ ਕਲਿਨੰ ਬਿਨੰ ॥੨੨॥

पुन अउर अउर उचाहगे मतणोगतं चतुरथ दिनं ॥ धरम फोकटणो सभं इक केवलं कलिनं बिनं ॥२२॥

Again on the fourth day new religions will arise, but they wil all be without the idea of salvation.22.

ਛੰਦ ਬੰਦ ਜਹਾਂ ਤਹਾਂ ਨਰ ਨਾਰ ਨਿੱਤ ਨਏ ਕਰਹਿ ॥ ਪੁਨ ਜੰਤ੍ਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਜਹਾਂ ਤਹਾਂ ਨਹੀ ਤੰਤ੍ਰਲਾਤ ਕਛੂ ਡਰਹਿ ॥

छंद बंद जहां तहां नर नार नि्त नए करहि ॥ पुन जंत्र मंत्र जहां तहां नही तंत्रलात कछू डरहि ॥

The men and women will perform the works of deceit here and there; many mantras, yantras and tantras will spring up;

ਧਰਮ ਛਤ੍ਰ ਉਤਾਰ ਕੈ ਰਨ ਛੋਰ ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਭਾਜ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਸੂਦ੍ਰ ਬੈਸ ਜਹਾਂ ਤਹਾਂ ਗਹਿ ਅਸਤ੍ਰ ਆਹਵ ਗਾਜ ਹੈਂ ॥੨੩॥

धरम छत्र उतार कै रन छोर छत्री भाज हैं ॥ सूद्र बैस जहां तहां गहि असत्र आहव गाज हैं ॥२३॥

Leaving the canopies of religions, the Kshatriyas will run away from fighting, and Shudras and Vaishyas will catch hold of weapons and arms and thunder in the battlefield.23.

ਛਤ੍ਰੀਆਨੀ ਛੋਰ ਕੈ ਨਰ ਨਾਹ ਨੀਚਨ ਰਾਵ ਹੈ ॥ ਤਜ ਰਾਜ ਅਉਰ ਸਮਾਜ ਕੋ ਗ੍ਰਹਿ ਨੀਚ ਰਾਨੀ ਜਾਵ ਹੈ॥

छत्रीआनी छोर कै नर नाह नीचन राव है ॥ तज राज अउर समाज को ग्रहि नीच रानी जाव है॥

Leaving the functions of Kshatriyas, the kings will perform disgraceful tasks; the queens, leaving the kings, mix up with the low social orders;

ਸੂਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਸੁਤਾ ਭਏ ਰਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸੂਦ੍ਰੀ ਹੋਹਿਗੇ ॥ ਬੇਸਿਯਾ ਬਾਲ ਬਿਲੋਕ ਕੈ ਮੁਨਰਾਜ ਧੀਰਜ ਖੋਹਿਗੇ ॥੨੪॥

सूद्र ब्रहमसुता भए रत ब्रहम सूद्री होहिगे ॥ बेसिया बाल बिलोक कै मुनराज धीरज खोहिगे ॥२४॥

Shudras will be absorbed with the Brahmins girls and the Brahmins will also do like wise; seeing the daughters of the prostitutes. The great sages will lose their forbearance.24.

ਧਰਮ ਭਰਮ ਉਡਯੋ ਜਹਾਂ ਤਹਾਂ ਪਾਪ ਪਗ ਪਗ ਹੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥ ਨਿਜ ਸਿੱਖ ਨਾਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਮੈ ਗੁਰ ਦਾਰਾ ਸੋ ਸਿਖ ਸੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥

धरम भरम उडयो जहां तहां पाप पग पग होहिंगे ॥ निज सि्ख नार गुरू रमै गुर दारा सो सिख सोहिंगे ॥

The honour of religions will fly away and there will be sinful acts at every step; he Gurus will enjoy the wives of their disciples and the disciples will absorb themselves with the wives of their Gurus;

ਅਬਿਬੇਕ ਅਉਕ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਕੋ ਨ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਬੈਠ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਪੁਨ ਝੂਠ ਬੋਲ ਕਮਾਹਿੰਗੇ ਸਿਰ ਸਾਚ ਬੋਲ ਉਤਾਰ ਹੈਂ ॥੨੫॥

अबिबेक अउक बिबेक को न बिबेक बैठ बिचार हैं ॥ पुन झूठ बोल कमाहिंगे सिर साच बोल उतार हैं ॥२५॥

No attention will be paid to foolishness and wisdom and the head of the speaker of truth will be chopped; the falsehood will reign supreme.25.

__________________

ਤਰ ਨਰਾਜ ਛੰਦ ॥

तर नराज छंद ॥

TAR NARAJ STANZA

ਬਰਨ ਹੈ ਅਬਰਨ ਕੋ ॥ ਛਾਡਿ ਹਰਿ ਸ਼ਰਨ ਕੋ ॥੩੦॥

बरन है अबरन को ॥ छाडि हरि शरन को ॥३०॥

Castelessness will be the caste and all will forsake the refuge of the Lord.30.

ਛਾਡ ਸਭ ਸਾਜ ਕੋ ॥ ਲਾਗ ਹੈ ਅਕਾਜ ਕੋ ॥੩੧॥

छाड सभ साज को ॥ लाग है अकाज को ॥३१॥

All the people will forsake good actions and will absorb themselves in wicked actions.31.

ਤਯਾਗ ਹੈ ਨਾਮ ਕੋ ॥ ਲਾਗ ਹੈ ਕਾਮ ਕੋ ॥੩੨॥

तयाग है नाम को ॥ लाग है काम को ॥३२॥

All of them will abandon the remembrance of the name of the Lord, and will remain absorbed in sexual enjoyment.32.

ਲਾਜ ਕੌ ਛੋਰ ਹੈ ॥ ਦਾਨ ਮੁਖ ਮੋਰ ਹੈ ॥੩੩॥

लाज कौ छोर है ॥ दान मुख मोर है ॥३३॥

They will not feel shy (of the wicked acts) and will refrain from the bestowal of charity. 33

ਚਰਨ ਨਹੀ ਧਿਆਇ ਹੈ ॥ ਦੁਸ਼ਟ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਇ ਹੈ ॥੩੪॥

चरन नही धिआइ है ॥ दुशट गति पाइ है ॥३४॥

They will not meditate on the feet of the lord and only the tyrants will be hailed .34.

ਨਰਕ ਕਹੁ ਜਾਹਿਗੇ ॥ ਅੰਤ ਪਛੁਤਾਹਿਗੇ ॥੩੫॥

नरक कहु जाहिगे ॥ अंत पछुताहिगे ॥३५॥

All of them will go to hell and untimately repent.35.

ਧਰਮ ਕਹ ਖੋਹਿਗੇ ॥ ਪਾਪ ਕਰ ਰੋਹਿਗੇ ॥੩੬॥

धरम कह खोहिगे ॥ पाप कर रोहिगे ॥३६॥

All of them will ultimately repent on losing dharma.36.

ਨਰਕ ਪੁਨ ਬਾਸ ਹੈ ॥ ਤ੍ਰਾਸ ਜਮ ਤ੍ਰਾਸ ਹੈ ॥੩੭॥

नरक पुन बास है ॥ त्रास जम त्रास है ॥३७॥

They will abide in hell and the messengers of Yama will frighten them.37.

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ਨਗ ਸਰੂਪੀ ਛੰਦ ॥

नग सरूपी छंद ॥

NAG SAROOPI STANZA

ਨ ਧਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਕੌ ਕਰੈਂ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਿਥਾ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨੇ ਰਰੈਂ ॥ ਕੁਕਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਸੋ ਫਸੈ ॥ ਸਤਿ ਛਾਡ ਧਰਮਵਾ ਨਸੈ ॥੪੬॥

न धरम करम कौ करैं ॥ ब्रिथा कथा सुने ररैं ॥ कुकरम करम सो फसै ॥ सति छाड धरमवा नसै ॥४६॥

No one will perform the rituals enjoyed by religion and the people will quarrel amongst themselves in evil actions to such an extent that they will totally forsake the religion and truth.46.

ਪੁਰਾਣ ਕਾਬਿ ਨਾ ਪੜੈਂ ॥ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਲੈ ਨ ਤੇ ਰੜੈਂ ॥ ਅਧਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਕੋ ਕਰੈਂ ॥ ਸੁ ਧਰਮ ਜਾਸ ਤੇ ਡਰੈਂ ॥੪੭॥

पुराण काबि ना पड़ैं ॥ कुरान लै न ते रड़ैं ॥ अधरम करम को करैं ॥ सु धरम जास ते डरैं ॥४७॥

They will not study Puranas and Epics and will also not read the holy Quran; they will perform such acts of adharma, that even dharma will also feel frightened.47.

ਧਰਾਕਿ ਵਰਣਤਾ ਭਈ ॥ ਸੁ ਭਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਕੀ ਗਈ ॥ ਗ੍ਰਿਹੰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹੰ ਨਯੋ ਮਤੰ ॥ ਚਲੇ ਭੂਅੰ ਜਥਾ ਤਥੰ ॥੪੮॥

धराकि वरणता भई ॥ सु भरम धरम की गई ॥ ग्रिहं ग्रिहं नयो मतं ॥ चले भूअं जथा तथं ॥४८॥

The whole earth will assume only one caste (of sin) and the trust in religion will be finished; there will be new sects in every home and the people will adopt only misconduct.48.

ਗ੍ਰਿਹੰ ਗ੍ਰਿਹੰ ਨਏ ਮਤੰ ॥ ਭਈ ਧਰੰ ਨਈ ਗਤੰ ॥ ਅਧਰਮ ਰਾਜਤਾ ਲਈ ॥ ਨਿਕਾਰ ਧਰਮ ਦੇਸ ਦੀ ॥੪੯॥

ग्रिहं ग्रिहं नए मतं ॥ भई धरं नई गतं ॥ अधरम राजता लई ॥ निकार धरम देस दी ॥४९॥

There will be now sects in every home; there will be new paths on the earth; there will be the reign of adharma and dharma will be exiled.49.

ਪ੍ਰਬੋਧ ਏਕ ਨਾ ਲਗੈ ॥ ਸੁਧਰਮ ਅਧਰਮ ਤੇ ਭਗੈ ॥ ਕੁਕਰਮ ਪ੍ਰਚੁਰਯੰ ਜਗੰ ॥ ਸੁ ਕਰਮ ਪੰਖ ਕੈ ਭਗੰ ॥੫੦॥

प्रबोध एक ना लगै ॥ सुधरम अधरम ते भगै ॥ कुकरम प्रचुरयं जगं ॥ सु करम पंख कै भगं ॥५०॥

There will be no impact of knowledge on anyone and dharma will flee in the face of adharma; the wicked acts will be greatly propagated and dharma will fly away with wings.50.

ਪ੍ਰਪੰਚ ਪੰਚ ਹੁਇ ਗਡਾ ॥ ਅਪ੍ਰਪੰਚ ਪੰਖ ਕੈ ਉਡਾ ॥ ਕੁਕਰਮ ਬਿਚਰਤੰ ਜਗੰ ॥ਸੁਕਰਮ ਸੁਭ੍ਰਮੰ ਭਗੰ ॥੫੧॥

प्रपंच पंच हुइ गडा ॥ अप्रपंच पंख कै उडा ॥ कुकरम बिचरतं जगं ॥सुकरम सुभ्रमं भगं ॥५१॥

The deceit will be appointed as judge and the simplicity will fly away; the whole world will be absorbed in vicious acts and the good acts will speed away.51.

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Edited by londondajatt
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Anyway what has all this buq buq regurgitated bakwass got to do with marrying cousins?

And this cry-baby parchar is really bringing our community down!!

Edited by londondajatt
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Well all it seems is that caste culture and language change with the times so it brings up the question of what caste really is. As for people's attitudes, you will find angry, petty, violent etc types the world over. It's almost like people are making up for a lack of community and nationality by delving into caste. Shame really. As for bringing communities down, let's be serious, I'm not doing a Dalsingh in terms of whinging but we dont really have proper communities to bring down anyway. Back on topic!!1

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Well all it seems is that caste culture and language change with the times so it brings up the question of what caste really is. As for people's attitudes, you will find angry, petty, violent etc types the world over. It's almost like people are making up for a lack of community and nationality by delving into caste. Shame really. As for bringing communities down, let's be serious, I'm not doing a Dalsingh in terms of whinging but we dont really have proper communities to bring down anyway. Back on topic!!1

Yes but these cry babies and whingers really don't give off the sikhi or Khalsa vibe, I shall repeat again, they belong on sikhsangat with the rest of the cry-babies not on sikhawareness!

Imagine if the khalsa behaved in this manner, always crying about peoples cultures and backgrounds. When the Khalsa had a problem, they actually done something, for example against the Mughals, Afghans and even British! But sulking on the internet like fudus, please; like I can take people like this seriously...

I train shastarvidiya with nihangs, I don't need this nonsense!

Edited by londondajatt
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The weird thing is that casteism is borderline accepted. I'm not just talking about jatts but all across the spectrum. So is demeaning women by some. Yet when it comes to xenophobia or things like that many sikhs start to jump up and down. Funny eh?

As for being a Doaba Jatt, well I find it hard to believe you're from the UK and are a farmer pack in Punjab. I smell fishes.

As for SV, well I'm glad you train physically. Might come in useful like Krav Maga was in the early 20th century for Jews.

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The weird thing is that casteism is borderline accepted. I'm not just talking about jatts but all across the spectrum. So is demeaning women by some. Yet when it comes to xenophobia or things like that many sikhs start to jump up and down. Funny eh?

As for being a Doaba Jatt, well I find it hard to believe you're from the UK and are a farmer pack in Punjab. I smell fishes.

As for SV, well I'm glad you train physically. Might come in useful like Krav Maga was in the early 20th century for Jews.

Well in SV we just absolutely laugh and make fun of some of the type of people posting in this thread.

As for the Doaba thing, even in UK, Doaba, Majha and Malwa still speak out own punjabi dialects and still bring have our different thinking, including being backwards and forwards in different behaviors!!

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So Doaba/Malwa/Maljhi is like Scouse/Geordie/Brummie? Makes sense.

i think majheli panjabis/sikhs have some scottish blood in them. Has anyone else noticed the fashion tendancy to wear Tartan style parnas by majha sikhs? always intrigued me.

probs explain my love for haggis and wearing skirts!!

:)

Edited by SURYADEV
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And I'm sure people take the piss out of those who do SV too. Everyone laughs at everyone else. Not exactly reflecting the higher thinking of which you seem so keen.

So Doaba/Malwa/Maljhi is like Scouse/Geordie/Brummie? Makes sense.

People have to be jolly sometimes, even Guru Hargobind Sahib kept a jester!

i think majheli panjabis/sikhs have some scottish blood in them. Has anyone else noticed the fashion tendancy to wear Tartan style parnas by majha sikhs? always intrigued me.

probs explain my love for haggis and wearing skirts!!

:)

lol haggis arr. its alright ye know

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  • 4 years later...
Guest Mola Jatt

 

 

What about the Sikh 'Khatris' of Panjab proper? Do they have cousin marriage practices?

 

There needs to be an Akal Takhat edict?

Bhapa generation is a combination of hindu and muslim.During 1947 there were many violence on hindu ladies. Muslim raped hindu ladies. Hindu ladies become  pregnant. .In this way new nation bhapa came to history. Bhapa father is Muslim and mother is hindu.That's why they marry to cousins. Bhapa ladies are found of sex with others. It is common "Bhapa na rehenda vupar bina , bhpan na rehndi yaar bina"

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Bhapa generation is a combination of hindu and muslim.During 1947 there were many violence on hindu ladies. Muslim raped hindu ladies. Hindu ladies become  pregnant. .In this way new nation bhapa came to history. Bhapa father is Muslim and mother is hindu.That's why they marry to cousins. Bhapa ladies are found of sex with others. It is common "Bhapa na rehenda vupar bina , bhpan na rehndi yaar bina"

Yeah, and jattis like getting gang-banged by her husband's brothers on alternate nights.

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  • 5 months later...
Guest NZ Australia

Google singh court crime  in New Zealand and Australia and we know who the crims at the courts 

I was told by my paindu mates that Jatts used to have one common wife for 2-3 brothers to avoid land division. 

I believed him because my jatt mates find it funny talking about their Bhabhi in sexual way 

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Guest NZ Australia
On 2 September 2015 at 6:56 AM, dalsingh101 said:

Yeah, and jattis like getting gang-banged by her husband's brothers on alternate nights.

Jatts have common wife between 2-3 brothers to avoid land division 

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  • 10 months later...

If you think your children might be affected in this way then surely it can't be considered as an option. What about the sin of knowingly bringing a life in to the world, who will be in pain. If you continue to have children after a first disabled child surely your Imam or religious leader's should advise you this can't be right.

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