Brahmcharia - Celibacy

[laalsingh]

Please dont give examples of Gurus. They are Akal Purakh and away from the bondage of sex. Their leela is different than human beings.

Dont insult in future, please.

What is more insulting?

Saying that Gurus had wives and did have sex

or saying that Gurus had wives but never had sex with them.

[Mr Sardar]

I don't see the point of karezza how would delaying male orgasm make us meet god, by pushing the 3minutes to 30minutes (or by use of drugs to help with that). Maybe with simran or by sharing a paath together doing one pauri at a time might be something practiced but the benefit reeped would be from bani.

With your 30 year old friend we are not aware what he did in his past life which may have allowed him to collect all that kamai maybe you can ask him on this issue in regards to what someone can do. Is there in some way some one addicted to sex can get off it, or drastically reduce ones indulgence?

There were many hindu kings who practised tantra they had multiple partners even concubines would sleeping around not have serious ramifications?

It seems baba nand singh made comments on this are there any more of his or nanaksar sants on this matter or anyother sampradis.

Edited September 21, 2010 by sarbatdapala

[laalsingh]

A story I heard somewhere.

Guru and chela walking to a destination. On their way, they came across a river. Just before they cross the river, they saw a young, beautiful lady waiting to cross the river. She asked for help. Though she was very sexy and dressed scantily, Guru never hesitated and carried her across the river. Chela was shocked to see the hypocrisy. Guru always told him to stay away from sex and other women, but when Guru got a chance, he readily carried her in his lap.

So anyway, their walk continued. Now chela was upset. Guru noticed his upset chela for couple of days and then asked him the reason why is he upset? Chela told him the reason.

Now Guru said," I carried her in my lap for few minutes because she needed help. I never cared her being young and beautiful. But listen, you have been carrying her in your mind for last two days."

Morale of the story: If your body need some action and your partner is not sleepy, DO IT. It is better than doing it in dream or trying to forget missed chance a night before while doing bhagti next morning.

[Ragmaala]

What is more insulting?

Saying that Gurus had wives and did have sex

or saying that Gurus had wives but never had sex with them.

Shame on you man !

Your vision is quite limited as I understand. The wives you speak of were the form of Akali Shakti/ Eka Maayi/ Bhagauti and the Gurus Akal Purakh themselves. Giani Thakur Singh Jis katha on Mata Sehaj Kaur for better understanding.

Baba Nand Singh Ji once heard a kathavachak saying the same thing as you are saying, he then scolded him to not bring Gurus on such a lower level. Their leela is different from normal human beings.

[Ragmaala]

It seems baba nand singh made comments on this are there any more of his or nanaksar sants on this matter or anyother sampradis.

If you are fortunate enough to meet a Gursikh who has had vision of Guru Nanak, intense kamai, and drenched in love...he would explain it better.

[Mr Sardar]

Also is it wrong to have sexual relations with dastar on, what do we do if bodily fluids come onto dastar- can such staining even be washed our or are they to remain, is it wrong to dispose of the dastar? Is it acceptable not to have head covered or is such an act of spiritual relevance where it must be respected as such.

[SURYADEV]

Also is it wrong to have sexual relations with dastar on, what do we do if bodily fluids come onto dastar- can such staining even be washed our or are they to remain, is it wrong to dispose of the dastar? Is it acceptable not to have head covered or is such an act of spiritual relevance where it must be respected as such.

I think you're getting way too regimented here. If you're thinking about such (what I consider) trivialities during lovemaking then you are not concentrating on the task at hand and therefore failing in your duty(/dharma) to your partner. As a result there is no enjoyment on both your parts. Its a bit like some guy wondering what Liverpools football score is whilst in bed - no way the wife will appreciate him. She will eventually consider him just a husband, there to earn the bread, do the DIY and not as a lover.

You may want to consider looking into KamaSutra as background reading. The author gives all manner of rules, dos and donts, formalities etc. But at the end he states that when you get in the flow of things... just let it happen!

Not exactly Gurmat you may say, but your first duty is to your partner during love-making.

[Xylitol]

at the risk of being extremely unpopular, i have heard that oral and anal sex are taboo for sikhs. this from a singh who learned it from a mahapurkh's updesh to him given before marriage. you may find information on this in sant jagjit singh ji's katha. interestingly enough, the dalai lama also mentioned this as a paap karam, and the bible considers it forbidden and both are considered sodomy.

[Ragmaala]

I wonder what love making was during SatYuga ?

[SURYADEV]

I asumme same as today but with more spiritual/tantric element.

.....so maybe they could last longer!

[Mr Sardar]

It's also forbidden in islam although there are some loopholes to oral sex; some say as long as you do not swallow its ok. Anal sex is haram.

Edited September 22, 2010 by sarbatdapala

[SURYADEV]

It's also forbidden in islam although there are some loopholes to oral sex; some say as long as you do not swallow its ok. Anal sex is haram.

Darn.... theres no enjoyment in life anymore.

Hope they dont tell me to put my fluffy, pink handcuffs away!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr Sardar]

Are any celestial beings- (jinns/angels/demons/unseen beings/devil/satan) present before/during/after sex, masturbation, wet dreams or lustful moments.

In Abrahamic faiths we find the notion the devil creates the evil of sexual lust between unknown couples; also there are some Christians who believe in these demon spirits who make people masturbate to feed on there soul, blood and semen- in turn weakening the person, leading to depression as well as trying to take demon possession of the body.-

INCUBUS AND SUCCUBUS - INCUBI AND SUCCUBI - http://www.demonbuster.com/incubus.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succubus also in Arabic known as "Qarinah"

http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Incubus_(demon)

http://www.consciousape.com/assets/1103/Succubus.jpg

Also when does the soul of a baby come, does it come during straight from the sperm? If a person spills semen are evil rus/jinns/beings to come to that person, would that person carry those beings with him, can possession occur- (needing exorcism type) ?

Edited September 27, 2010 by sarbatdapala

[shaheediyan]

SDP,

You need to calm down, you are way over analysing.

Sikhs are instructed to live in 'Sehaj'. This applies to all aspects of life. Every action can be done in a pure or polluted way, including sexual relations. God has created this desire between man and woman in order to bring them closer, tighten their relationship, procreate... in Indian culture a child is known as 'pyaar ki nishaani', not kaam/paap ki nishaani. Obviously this was when we lived in a more respectful/wise age.

I'm not sure why you are even bothering with the notion of Satan. Even mystical elements of Islam/Christianity don't believe in this persona. They clearly see it as a metaphoric umbrella for ones sinful desires - which result through God ignorance. This is no different to Sikhi.

Regarding pooth/praath - if one is not living a Godly life (in any number of ways) then they will remove Guru Raksha and open themselves up to negative elements.

[Only five]

Reading Sri Sukhmani Sahib ji, this is what I came across:

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 274

AstpdI ]

asattapadhee ||

Ashtapadee:

imiQAw nwhI rsnw prs ]

mithhiaa naahee rasanaa paras ||

One whose tongue does not touch falsehood;

mn mih pRIiq inrMjn drs ]

man mehi preeth nira(n)jan dharas ||

whose mind is filled with love for the Blessed Vision of the Pure Lord,

pr iqRA rUpu n pyKY nyqR ]

par thria roop n paekhai naethr ||

whose eyes do not gaze upon the beauty of others' wives,

swD kI thl sMqsMig hyq ]

saadhh kee ttehal sa(n)thasa(n)g haeth ||

who serves the Holy and loves the Saints' Congregation,

krn n sunY kwhU kI inMdw ]

karan n sunai kaahoo kee ni(n)dhaa ||

whose ears do not listen to slander against anyone,

sB qy jwnY Awps kau mMdw ]

sabh thae jaanai aapas ko ma(n)dhaa ||

who deems himself to be the worst of all,

gur pRswid ibiKAw prhrY ]

gur prasaadh bikhiaa pareharai ||

who, by Guru's Grace, renounces corruption,

mn kI bwsnw mn qy trY ]

man kee baasanaa man thae ttarai ||

who banishes the mind's evil desires from his mind,

ieMdRI ijq pMc doK qy rhq ]

ei(n)dhree jith pa(n)ch dhokh thae rehath ||

who conquers his sexual instincts and is free of the five sinful passions

nwnk koit mDy ko AYsw Aprs ]1]

naanak kott madhhae ko aisaa aparas ||1||

- O Nanak, among millions, there is scarcely one such 'touch-nothing Saint'. ||1||

Some are saying God gave us kaam so it's natural to play it out. Then you have Guru Sahib telling us to conquer the sexual instinct,completely the opposite what others have said.

Like Guru Sahib says, conquer this instinct, then wouldn't that also mean whatever stimulus in society is causing you to behave in it, should be conquered and should not subdue you to your sexual instinct.

Then what about your wife, which is a stimulus, doesn't that go back to conquering this stimulus(sexual desire) and sexual instinct?

Guru Sahib defined sexual desire(involving stimulus) and sexual instinct(naturally) completely differently, but both are to be conquered.

Can a Sikh procreate without kaam and sexual instinct and love his wife without both of them?

[laalsingh]

Does 'conquering' mean finish it off or controlling?

Can a Sikh procreate without kaam and sexual instinct and love his wife without both of them?

How would you erect your lund without kaam?

[shaheediyan]

Only 5 read my post - 'sehaj'.

We are to become master of our desires, not the other way around which is the case with most of us.

Once we become masters of our desires, through gurmat, we use them in sehaj and in purity.

Sexuality/desire are not paap in themselves, it's the context in which they are sold/seen/utilised that is corrupted/polluted. It's when these desires control our lives, hence replace God, that they become demons. This is exactly what Guru Gobind Singh educated us about in Charitripakhyan.

[Only five]

shaheediyan, I agree become master of the desire. But if you read the shabad from Sri Sukhmani Sahib ji then it goes further and says conquer sexual instinct, which is the cause of, in this case sexual desire. So Guru Sahib is saying get to the root and master it.

Once this sexual instinct(bound to this world) is conquered, doesn't that mean that energy has transformed into something that is permanent and does not rest in a person as sexual instinct anymore? To call sexual instinct or sexual desire as not wrong would be a mistake because we are told to conquer it. It's like conquering the ego, that force does not stay as ego anymore but has turned into something positive and is not an instinct anymore. Where the body or mind does not desire it or need it.

I think it's a huge mistake saying any of the Gurus acted out of sexual instinct or desire because they tell us not to act out in any one of these.

I'm not saying the act of procreation is wrong or is spiritually draining, but there is a way to procreate without letting your sexual instinct coming into play.

[SURYADEV]

To Conquer is to control, not to destroy.

as in JAP JI Sahib: man jite jag jeet. This doesn't mean to destroy the mind.

[Only five]

To Conquer is to control, not to destroy.

as in JAP JI Sahib: man jite jag jeet. This doesn't mean to destroy the mind.

Say you have a disease and eventually you conquer that disease inside of you. Now does that disease still stay with you and needs to be conrolled or is it completely gone? I say the latter because if it was the former then you really have conquered nothing as it still in you. Remember sexual instinct is not apart of the envirnoment, but inborn, it's not the same as sexual desire.

Also Gurbani say to destroy sexual desire.

Conquer also means to overcome, so why is there a need to control sexual instinct as it has been conquered(it can't attack you again). Control would been to keep something in check and not let it unleash itself, which in true form just say it has not been conquered.

To get the true meaning of conquer we have to read the next part because it also say you are free of the five passion. Which includes sexual desire. Free means they are not in you anymore and nothing has to be controlled because they are not present. Only reason why they have to be controlled would be if you are not free of them. Since Gurbani say to be free of them, then there is no reason to control

Edited September 28, 2010 by Only five

[Mr Sardar]

That shabad from sukhmani sahib is intresting it says "Indra jeet"- Usually Jains say its a sin to eat something which has 5 indras (mouth, 2 eyes, 1 nose, 2 ears) so meat is wrong for them.

However there is another story relating to this http://buddhanirvana.wordpress.com/category/god-buddha/page/2/

Its about these trees created by Indra (hindu diety) which grew women in the forests those who went into the forests (for Dhamma-riddle. Yogis, Gandhabhas -heavenly musicians ) had to overcome there sexual lust anyone who did not and slept with one of those women from the tree (Makaliporn/Makkaliphala) would go into a coma for 4 months after waking up they loose all there powers (ridhi sidhis such as flying).

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਕਾਇਆ ਕਉ ਗਾਲੈ ॥ ਜਿਉ ਕੰਚਨ ਸੋਹਾਗਾ ਢਾਲੈ ॥

Kām kroḏẖ kā­i­ā ka­o gālai. Ji­o kancẖan sohāgā dẖālai.

Lust and wrath wastes the body away, as borax melts gold. SGGS 932

ਭੋਗੀ ਕਉ ਦੁਖੁ ਰੋਗ ਵਿਆਪੈ ॥

Bẖogī ka­o ḏukẖ rog vi­āpai.

Painful diseases afflict those who are sexually promiscuous.

sggs page 1189

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਜੀਅ ਮਹਿ ਚੋਟ ॥ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿ ਚਲੇ ਮਨਿ ਖੋਟ ॥੨॥

Kām kroḏẖ jī­a meh cẖot. Nām visār cẖalė man kẖot.॥2॥

Sexual desire and anger are the wounds of the soul.

The evil-minded ones forget the Naam, and then depart. ॥2॥

sggs page 152

So it seems almost in modern society hard to avoid lust, we have to be like a lotus flower above the mud. But question is how to conquer lust, (cold showers and beats?) - An intresting article on kaam - kama http://www.sanghparivar.org/blog/dr-k-prabhakar-rao/kama-lust-surely-causes-human-down-fall

"Hindu scriptures are full of the incidents that highlight the ills of lust ( Kama). Even Gods have fallen prey to the vise and suffered. Indra the ruler of demi Gods in the heavens became infatuated with the beauty of Ahalya the wife of the great learned sage Gautama. He devised a plan and taking the form of Gautama he entered the hut of the sage at an hermitage when he was away and violated Ahalya who submitted to him ignorant of the truth. Indra thus morally fell and deserved severe punishment. The sage Gautama having returned and come to know of the truth cursed his wife to turn into a stone for getting involved in adultery although she was deceived. He also made Indra to suffer great shame by cursing him that his entire body would be covered all over with female genitals (4). This is because Indra was overtaken by lust and forgotten what is good and bad. Ahalya could regain her form only when Sri Rama (Incarnation of Lord Vishnu) accidentally touched the stone with his foot while wandering in the forest accompanied by Sage Vishwamitra enroute to Mithilapura. This was foretold by the sage Gautama. This has been described in the most pious Hindu scripture Ramayana (5). Indra suffered great shame and was unable to show himself to any one. He however did penance praying to lord Shiva and the Lord much pleased blessed Indra that all the vaginas on his body would be changed into markings of eyes. Then onwards Indra is being called Sahasraksha ( One with thousand eyes). Even the greatest sages became victims of the trait of passion and lust..... "

It seems that probably Indra devta challenges yogis by putting kaam infront of them.

Edited September 29, 2010 by sarbatdapala

[kidsama]

for some people like me who can't balance in between and naturally lean towards extremes, celibacy/brahmachariya for life is the way to go. 

Before, I would be doing NoFap or trying to (i am 21), but after a week or two in I would start thinking about future relationship, wife, marriage, children, and then again fall.

The second I decided Brahmachariya/Celibacy for life (in thought and action), I got immense peace and I feel complete now.  

 

[paapiman]

On 9/19/2010 at 5:34 PM, Ragmaala said:

According to Dhan Dhan Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj , Guru Nanak Dev ji and all Gurus did not enter Grihast in order to procreate as normal humans do. The sakhi follows that Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave to two cloves to Mata Sulakhni Ji in the form of prashad...thus two sons.

 

Gurus are not bound as we humans are. And this viewpoint is shared by many Mahapurashs.

Did Baba jee say that all of our Satgurus did not engage in love-making? Wasn't it only Sri Satguru jee (First Master), who did not engage in it?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 9/20/2010 at 5:24 AM, dalsingh101 said:

If celibacy was essential for bhagti or becoming a sant, then it makes no sense that many of our Gurus were married. Futhermore they actual promoted grisht life.

 

If someone has a loving, healthy relationship with their wife, who is spiritual too, I don't think it is any obstacle to bhagti? No where does Sikhi seem to suggest that sex between married people is a negative in any way? Unless I have overlooked this, which is possible.

Bhai Chaupa Singh Rehatnama talks about celibacy.

Have you come across any other statement(s) related to sex (with your wife) in the Rehatnamas?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

@dalsingh101 - Also, did Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) got Kamasutra (or any other books on sex) translated in his Kavi Darbar?

 

Bhul chuk maaf