Sikhism And Caste

[jaikaara]

This reminds me of a play vagina Monologues :)

We talk of brahmgyan in the brain and ultimately reach from where we started the journey ...! cant stop laughing ....:)

[mrsingh]

 

I don't consider myself a Sikh.

Paapi Ji given that you consider yourself a non-Sikh, I just about grasp where you are coming from now.

Paapi Ji in the context of you conceding that you yourself are not a Sikh, then your hesitation to accept that the wider Sikh Panth is not solely defined by Gurmukhs makes sense.

So now that we have got over that hurdle let's agree that non-Sikhs such as yourself and me should all work together to nevertheless expand the basis upon which Sikhi can serve humanity in a bigger and better way globally.

Key to that Paapi Ji is that you regarding yourself as a non-Sikh is completely fine (in terms of your spiritual state and paapi actions) however let's try to increase the numbers of people who consider themselves part of the Sikh Panth (including yourself as a member of the Panth regardless if via your actions and soch you feel that you are not a Sikh).

 

The reason why Baba Banda Singh Bahadur was eventually captured and made shaheed was due to lack of supporting numbers. The reason for our defeat in 1849 was due to lack of numbers given that 90% of Punjabi's were Muslims and Hindu's in 1849. The reason for the losses we suffered in the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947 was our lack of numbers (only 13% of Punjabi's in 1947 and today) and yet again the hundred or so brave shaheeds of 1984 were defeated purely due to a lack of numbers. It is only Hindutva supporters who wish for the Sikh Panth to remain in as small numbers as possible as that way the Sikh Panth will always be at the mercy of other enemy forces unable to defend itself nor unable to meaningfully serve humanity on a wider basis as the Khalsa Panth should by being at the forefront of genocide prevention, disaster relief, clean water provision, schoolbuilding etc.

Edited July 17, 2015 by mrsingh

[ibrute]

Bro, except for Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj, all other Satgurus took amrit. 

When did first master take amrit? First master did not have any guru, as he is the biggest guru himself.

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru is Guru Nanak Dev Jee Guru, Shudh Nirgun sarup. When Guru Nanak Dev was rumored to be drowned in Vaei River in Sultanpur Punjab, at that time he took duty to do prachaar of True knowledge of waheguru. He started preaching after he came out of the river. At this time Guru nanak Dev Jee has Waheguru as his guru, he has taken amrit from waheguru Jee, Of course not khande bate da amrit but that "amrit" is the essence of all gurus till present.

[Crystal]

Paapi Ji given that you consider yourself a non-Sikh, I just about grasp where you are coming from now.

The reason why Baba Banda Singh Bahadur was eventually captured and made shaheed was due to lack of supporting numbers. The reason for our defeat in 1849 was due to lack of numbers given that 90% of Punjabi's were Muslims and Hindu's in 1849. The reason for the losses we suffered in the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947 was our lack of numbers (only 13% of Punjabi's in 1947 and today) and yet again the hundred or so brave shaheeds of 1984 were defeated purely due to a lack of numbers. It is only Hindutva supporters who wish for the Sikh Panth to remain in as small numbers as possible as that way the Sikh Panth will always be at the mercy of other enemy forces unable to defend itself nor unable to meaningfully serve humanity on a wider basis as the Khalsa Panth should by being at the forefront of genocide prevention, disaster relief, clean water provision, schoolbuilding etc.

defeat was due to khalsa battle tactics and strategy being given to the British by our two heads....the dogra brothers. 

 

The killings Muslims done to Sikhs was done over a period...when Sikhs took badala they killed more Muslims in a shorter time frame. 

 

I disagree, you want the khalsa doing what the likes of khalsa aid is doing? We cannot even take care of our homeland riddled with drugs and we should go help other nations and places? Typical. We need to look more closer to home rather than the typical BS of the khalsa needs to help mankind. Yes we do, only after we settle our own affairs first.

 

This kind of thought that we should be at the forefront seems deluded and wrong. 

 

Crystal

Edited July 17, 2015 by Crystal

[kdsingh80]

I came across several families whose grandfathers and forefathers were Sikhs ..currently they follow Hinduism . Got a colleague with a Sikh lineage is a hardcore smoker and a strong congress loyalty ..had tried to talk to him and the answer was what sewa do sikhs brag about ..the langar halls are full of fat punjabis instead of poor and needy.

I couldnt argue further.

Real world problems are very different . I asked my uncle who is Gurdwara president in small town  i north east state of india that why poor people are shunned from langar. He said that many of them steal utensils and sometimes do also pick pocketing . He also said that they are not shunned but always given langar may be slightly later. He even said that in 1984 many who used to eat langar attacked gurdwara's .

 

BTW please ask your friends what Hindu mandirs are doing for poors. Sikh Gurdwara's may have lot of bad points but they are doing 100 times more social work than mandirs.

 

One of he main problem with sikhs is that due to propaganda and theory  the image of sikhs is larger than life and 99.99% of sikhs  do not match that image.

[paapiman]

Because obviously the robber / assulter is going AGAINST humanity.  A woman is not going against humanity for simply being a woman... why can't you see this??? Are you trying to say a woman having equal opportunity and rights to men is seriously the same thing as a robber or even worse an insect?? Come on you are better than this... a penis does not mean superiority!

Here is a little tidbit for you:

Gurbani says we are ALL female and Waheguru is the ONLY male. 
This is actually PROVEN by science.  YOU were once female.. physically.  ALL HUMANS possess the SAME DNA.  ALL FETUSES begin as a female.  Regardless if the father contributed an X or Y chromosome.  That doesn't come into play until later.  And the Y chromosome is inactive.  And all it does is trigger the release of the hormone testosterone to bathe to fetus in.  Without being bathed in testosterone, a fetus will always REMAIN female.  Similarly, without the Y chromosome, if a fetus was manually bathed in testosterone using artificial means, it would become genetically male.

ALL HUMANS however, no matter what gender, still possess the SAME HUMAN DNA.  THIS is why a woman compared to a man is NOT like an insect.  Gurbani even makes this clear... that this human life is rare and is the ONLY chance to meet our creator.  It doesn't say this is men's only chance and women are still like cockroaches in evolution. No, it says HUMAN.
By the way - The ONLY reason that humans evolved to have sexual reproduction requiring gender, as opposed to asexual reproduction, is that sexual reproduction ensures a more diverse genetic code, which lessens the chances for genetic errors - and even then they still happen.... can you imagine if we reproduced by asexual means?  There would be no diversity in the human race, and many 'clones' would die.  But in a very real sense, the differences in gender are skin deep... they are superficial only. Because the DNA is the SAME - HUMAN.

Again, if you can't see past your penis, then you are beyond help.   I am blocking you now so I don't have to read any more of your stupid suggestions that women compared to men are like insects. 

By the way, did you know that the ability exists in science to alter female eggs to deliver genetic code as a sperm would?  Do you know the GREATER suggestion this makes? That's right... the human race could exist with females only.  It could not exist with only males.  Take that one and try to justify male superiority.   I really hope you get past this ego Paapiman.  Because if you don't I really fear you have a LOOOOOOOONG journey ahead spiritually speaking.

Have a good life. 

Rest of you, sorry it got off topic, but it was unjustified to compare women to insects.  In the sense of the original topic, caste like any other perceived status is against Gurbani.  So they are all related. The basic point is we are all human...and equal.




 

Answer the below, instead of diverting to other topics

Why call the police -  God resides in the robber/assaulter. Let them do whatever, they want in your house. Even if he goes against humanity, still God exists in him. Why not, do his seva?

.

Bhul chuk maaf

Paapi Ji given that you consider yourself a non-Sikh, I just about grasp where you are coming from now.

The reason why Baba Banda Singh Bahadur was eventually captured and made shaheed was due to lack of supporting numbers. The reason for our defeat in 1849 was due to lack of numbers given that 90% of Punjabi's were Muslims and Hindu's in 1849. The reason for the losses we suffered in the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947 was our lack of numbers (only 13% of Punjabi's in 1947 and today) and yet again the hundred or so brave shaheeds of 1984 were defeated purely due to a lack of numbers. It is only Hindutva supporters who wish for the Sikh Panth to remain in as small numbers as possible as that way the Sikh Panth will always be at the mercy of other enemy forces unable to defend itself nor unable to meaningfully serve humanity on a wider basis as the Khalsa Panth should by being at the forefront of genocide prevention, disaster relief, clean water provision, schoolbuilding etc.

That is not the only reason bro. Baba Banda Singh jee Bahadur lost support of many warriors as he started claiming himself to be a guru.

Anyways, we are going off-topic. We can discuss this, in a separate thread.

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited July 17, 2015 by paapiman

[paapiman]

 

Page 93, Line 18
ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਸਮ ਦਲ ਸਮਝਾਵੈ ਕੋਊ ॥੩॥
Raviḏās sam ḏal samjẖāvai ko▫ū. ||3||
O Ravi Daas, one who understands that the Lord is equally in all, is very rare. ||3||
 

 

This above Gurbani tuk cannot be used to classify Patits (outcasts) as Sikhs. The above tuk applies to Brahamgyanis. Normal humans like me, can understand it a bit, but as long as one does not acquire Braham Darishtee, one will never fully comprehend it.

Having said the above, there is no doubt that the jot of Satguru jee, is also present in Patits. 

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited July 19, 2015 by paapiman

[mrsingh]

defeat was due to khalsa battle tactics and strategy being given to the British by our two heads....the dogra brothers. 

Mr = Crystal Paji if all Punjabi's had been Sikh in 1849 (rather than just 10%) and our Khalsa forces ten times stronger in number I firmly believe and history shows that the British Empire would have been destroyed on the battlefield. Not only that I believe that Khalsa Raj would have freed the entire sub-continent almost a 100years earlier than 1947.

The killings Muslims done to Sikhs was done over a period.

Mr = Yes the 20% of Sikhs killed in the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs was done over a sustained period of time.

when Sikhs took badala they killed more Muslims in a shorter time frame.

Mr = Again we come back to numbers Paji. The Muslims wanted to annex Majha, Malwa and Doaba into Pakistan. However, luckily for us in these three area's Sikh numbers broadly matched the Muslim population. So wherever the Sikh Panth has equal numbers and ammunition as the enemy we do not retreat or surrender. Plus had the Sikhs not fought vigorously to prevent their wholesale Genocide by Pakistan the Sikh casualty figures would have been immeasurably worse.

I disagree, you want the khalsa doing what the likes of khalsa aid is doing? We cannot even take care of our homeland riddled with drugs and we should go help other nations and places? Typical. We need to look more closer to home rather than the typical BS of the khalsa needs to help mankind. Yes we do, only after we settle our own affairs first.

Mr = Paji I absolutely agree with you that we can hardly be in a position to help others when we are so weak with the Panth under attack from drugs, alcohol, female infanticide, biraderi apartheid, illiteracy, cancer and poverty. But make no mistake that our overall duty is to help all of humanity to the maximum of our capacity and greater numbers are key to making that possible and improving the situation facing millions in Punjab.

 

Baba Banda Singh jee Bahadur lost support of many warriors as he started claiming himself to be a guru.

Paapi Ji, Banda Singh Bahadur Ji never claimed themself to be a Guru.

This was a lie popularised by the Mughals and anti-Sikh forces over the years.

May I also ask Paapi Ji, since you openly admit that you are not a Sikh yourself, why it concerns you so much as an openly declared non-Sikh yourself as to who can or cannot be included within the sharan of the Sikh Panth?

Edited July 18, 2015 by mrsingh

[paapiman]

May I also ask Paapi Ji, since you openly admit that you are not a Sikh yourself, why it concerns you so much as an openly declared non-Sikh yourself as to who can or cannot be included within the sharan of the Sikh Panth?

Even non-Sikhs can defend Sikhism. I am a wild dog, who eats from the house of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj. Gurparsaad, I will try to defend Sikhism. In our history, we have had non-Sikh (Sehajdhari - Hindu/Muslim) Shaheeds too.

Please start a new topic on Baba Banda Singh jee Bahadur. He did claim himself to be a guru and even had a minor altercation with Srimaan Shaheed Baba Deep Singh jee Maharaaj.

Anyways, let's stay on-topic

Bhul chuk maaf

Even non-Sikhs can defend Sikhism. I am a wild dog, who eats from the house of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj. Gurparsaad, I will try to defend Sikhism. In our history, we have had non-Sikh (Sehajdhari - Hindu/Muslim) Shaheeds too.

Please start a new topic on Baba Banda Singh jee Bahadur. He did claim himself to be a guru and even had a minor altercation with Srimaan Shaheed Baba Deep Singh jee Maharaaj.

Anyways, let's stay on-topic

Bhul chuk maaf

 

Edited July 18, 2015 by paapiman

[Crystal]

Even non-Sikhs can defend Sikhism. I am a wild dog, who eats from the house of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj. Gurparsaad, I will try to defend Sikhism. In our history, we have had non-Sikh (Sehajdhari) Shaheeds too.

Please start a new topic on Baba Banda Singh jee Bahadur. He did claim himself to be a guru and even had a minor altercation with Srimaan Shaheed Baba Deep Singh jee Maharaaj.

Anyways, let's stay on-topic

Bhul chuk maaf

 

papiman could you please tell me more regarding baba deep Singh? Please PM regarding this, would like to know

 

Crystal

[mrsingh]

Even non-Sikhs can defend Sikhism. I am a wild dog, who eats from the house of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj.

Mr = Ok Paapi Ji i respect that you as a self-proclaimed non-Sikh claim to have some affinity for Sikhi.

Mr = Sikhi needs no defence per se. The Truth can never be defeated. It is people who need our support.

Mr = Why not all of us ease up on excluding people from Sikhi and concentrate on working unitedly to ensure Panth ki Jeet over drugs, alcohol, female infanticide, biraderi apartheid, illiteracy, cancer poverty, etc and for Sarbat da Bhala more generally.

 

He did claim himself to be a guru and even had a minor altercation

Mr = No Paapi Ji those are just lies put out by anti-Sikh forces such as the Mughals originally and more lately by Hindutva agents

 

Going back to the OP:

In Punjab right now today there is a systematic program to convert all Mazhabi and Ravidassia Sikhs of today into tomorrow's Hindutva votebank by way of Balmiki and Dera Ballan Mandir franchises. If Sikhs do not urgently address biraderi apartheid immediately by way of ending discrimination, matrimonial apartheid and ensuring each pind only has a single united sangat Gurdwara then by the time of the (east) Punjab census in 2021 the Sikh percentage will be less than 50% of the population (currently around 60% in Punjab if we include all dera followers within Sikh ranks - as we should) via the loss of 6million sincere Punjabi-speaking Sikhs of today potentially becoming tomorrow's Hindutva votebank by 2021.

We as ordinary Sangat need to actively fight the cancer of matrimonial apartheid and biraderi-based golaks by uniting Gurdwara's by Panj Piare representation from all erstwhile Gurdwara's which merge into one in every pind and locality in the West.

We need to eradicate the despicable mentality of matrimonial apartheid if the Sikh Panth is to progress.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2015 by mrsingh

[paapiman]

Caste has some impact on a person's thinking. We cannot deny this fact (similar to gender equality, which is unscientific). One's genes and blood definitely have some impact on a person's behavior and habits.

Taking amrit is the first (and mandatory) step to move ahead towards Satguru jee, but it does take tremendous amount of bhagtee and simran to get rid of differences (duality) in the mind.

Srimaan Sant Baba Mahaharnaam Singh jee Maharaaj Buchonwale used to ask people their caste, when they used to come to meet him. I guess, the updesh would be slightly different to people, of different castes. 

For example, on average Pathans and Rajputs are brave; Bhappe are good at business; Chamars are simple minded, etc. Therefore, it makes sense to recognize the differences in castes and use certain positive qualities in a person, to move him ahead in spirituality.

Having said the above, no discrimination must be done, based on caste.

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

 

What is so difficult to understand about the fact that there can be Amritdhari, Kesdhari and Sehajdhari Sikhs within the Sikh Panth?

- Why is it so so difficult to understand that Khanday da amrit/Guru-Dikheya is a must, to become a Sikh.

I personally do not eat meat but if I am understanding you correctly you seem to consider Nihangs as non-Sikhs.

- Not all Nihangs, eat meat.

 

Do you also consider Taksali's as non-Sikhs? As many other Sikhs disagree with their bowing towards 3 granths.

- Three of the Gurbanis, that are used during the amrit ceremony, are from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. Bowing to Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee, is a must for a Sikh.

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2015 by paapiman

[mrsingh]

Caste has some impact on a person's thinking.

Mr = Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj destroyed and exposed this lie - as a non-Sikh you should study Vaisakhi 1699 

Srimaan Sant Baba Mahaharnaam Singh jee Maharaaj Buchonwale used to ask people their caste,

Mr = Sikhs should only have one Maharaj - Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

Mr = We should not be suffixing those that follow biprenvaad beliefs and enquire about caste with Maharaj

when they used to come to meet him. I guess, the updesh would be slightly different to people, of different castes. 

Mr = Good to know that you a consider your dehdari baba as Maharaj when they went against Guru Sahib advocating kul nash.

 

For example, on average Pathans and Rajputs are brave; Bhappe are good at business; Chamars are simple minded, etc. Therefore, it makes sense to recognize the differences in castes and use certain positive qualities in a person, to move him ahead in spirituality.

Mr = This is nonsense and typical biprenvaad ideology that I have come to expect from a self-proclaimed non-Sikh like you Paapi man

Mr = Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji (that the Muslims considered a cowardly Bihari choorah) is lionised within the Sikh Panth for being the bravest of the brave. Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa Ji repeatedly defeated the Muslim Pathans and Muslim Rajputs who had terrorised the innocent over generations. You Paapi as a non-Sikh think of Chamars as simple minded but Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj appointed Bhai Sangat Singh Ji to lead the Sikh fauj because Guru Sahib recognised that one's ancestry has no bearing upon one's Sikhi and that kul nash is the strict commandment for Sikhs - that we must eradicate all forms of division and apartheid within our mindset - in order for the Sikh Panth to move forward unitedly for Sarbat da Bhala.

[paapiman]

  2 hours ago, paapiman said:

Caste has some impact on a person's thinking.

Mr = Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj destroyed and exposed this lie - as a non-Sikh you should study Vaisakhi 1699 

It is very easy to talk like a Brahamgyani, but very hard to walk the talk.

Srimaan Sant Baba Mahaharnaam Singh jee Maharaaj Buchonwale used to ask people their caste,

Mr = Sikhs should only have one Maharaj - Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.\

Have you read SSGGSJ completely? Do you know, how much respect Satguru jee has given to saints?

Mr = We should not be suffixing those that follow biprenvaad beliefs and enquire about caste with Maharaj

Do you know, who Srimaan Sant Baba Mahaharnaam Singh jee Maharaaj Buchonwale was? Have you read his life?

when they used to come to meet him. I guess, the updesh would be slightly different to people, of different castes. 

Mr = Good to know that you a consider your dehdari baba as Maharaj when they went against Guru Sahib advocating kul nash.

Again, read SSGGSJ carefully. Read what it says about Saints/Brahamgyanis.

 

  2 hours ago, paapiman said:

For example, on average Pathans and Rajputs are brave; Bhappe are good at business; Chamars are simple minded, etc. Therefore, it makes sense to recognize the differences in castes and use certain positive qualities in a person, to move him ahead in spirituality.

Mr = This is nonsense and typical biprenvaad ideology that I have come to expect from a self-proclaimed non-Sikh like you Paapi man

Do you believe in science or not? Sikhism does not reject scientific principles. Genes and blood have an impact on a person.

Mr = Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji (that the Muslims considered a cowardly Bihari choorah) is lionised within the Sikh Panth for being the bravest of the brave. Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa Ji repeatedly defeated the Muslim Pathans and Muslim Rajputs who had terrorised the innocent over generations.

When did I say that amrit does not make a person brave? Do you think all amritdharis are as brave as Bhai Jiwan Singh jee or Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa? If Sardar Hari Singh jee Nalwa defeated Pathans, that does not make Pathans, a weak community. Khalsa is the most powerful force, so it makes sense they lost to Khalsa. Also I said - on average - that does not mean all Pathans/Rajputs are brave.

You Paapi as a non-Sikh think of Chamars as simple minded but Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj appointed Bhai Sangat Singh Ji to lead the Sikh fauj because Guru Sahib recognised that one's ancestry has no bearing upon one's Sikhi and that kul nash is the strict commandment for Sikhs - that we must eradicate all forms of division and apartheid within our mindset - in order for the Sikh Panth to move forward unitedly for Sarbat da Bhala.

What does simple-mindedness have to do with bravery? A person can be very simple minded, but very brave. What are you trying to prove?

Bhul chuk maaf

 Like this

•  

[kdsingh80]

Caste has some impact on a person's thinking.

 

It is not caste it is profession that has impact on person's thinking.many martial communitties raise their sons in a way that they become brave , Rural people in India are much more braver than urban Indian irrespective of caste. alsp who told you chamar are simple minded?

[CdnSikhGirl]

And the true depths of Paapiman's bigoted views are now starting to become painfully evident!!! LOL And I have not even posted in awhile...  *grabs some popcorn and gets comfortable for the show*

Edited July 19, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[paapiman]

It is not caste it is profession that has impact on person's thinking.many martial communitties raise their sons in a way that they become brave , Rural people in India are much more braver than urban Indian irrespective of caste. 

Bro, you have a good point, but you are talking from an environmental perspective. Daas never said that only caste has an effect on human mind. There might be several other factors too, which effect a person's thinking. Sangat is a big one too.

Bhul chuk maaf

[amardeep]

Paapiman: What religion were you born into?

[paapiman]

Quote

Researchers at Brown University and the University of Arizona have determined that variations of three different genes in the brain (called single-nucleotide polymorphisms) may help predict a person’s tendency to make certain choices.

Unquote [1]

[1] - http://psychcentral.com/news/2009/07/21/genetic-influence-on-behavior/7237.html

Daas is not a scholar, so won't be able to provide detailed information. If someone can provide more details on the effect of race/caste on a human mind, that would be great.

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited July 19, 2015 by paapiman

[amardeep]

Mrsingh: Was there a decline or increase in the Sikh population of Punjab from the 2001-2011 census?

[kdsingh80]

Mrsingh: Was there a decline or increase in the Sikh population of Punjab from the 2001-2011 census?

The share of other religious groups like Sikhs and Christians in the total population remained steady at a little over 2 per cent each, roughly in the same range as in the 2001 census.

Amardeep ji the full data of 2011 census is still not released .let's wait for it

Religious data' from 2011 Census could throw new light on Punjab

Vibhor Mohan,TNN | Jan 29, 2015, 04.59AM IST

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CHANDIGARH: 'Data about religions' from the 2011 Census, which had been held back, could soon give a new perspective to the conversion debate in Punjab. Existing figures point that there has been no major increase in the number of Christians in the region and the latest figures could put more light on the issue. Besides, it would also give an idea if Sikhs were actually moving towards becoming a minority in Punjab.

Sources said though state-wise figures should have ideally been released earlier, the data could be out after the Delhi assembly elections. There were 2,92,800 Christians in Punjab according to the 2001 Census.

"This particular section of the Census could prove to be sensitive and might have been held back intentionally by the Centre as it is usually released along with figures of scheduled caste and scheduled tribe population in states," said a demography expert.

"There has also been an apprehension that Sikhs could be turning into a minority in Punjab and large-scale migration to other countries and growing population of other communities are being seen as the key reasons. Census data will give a clearer picture of the scenario," added the expert.

The previous census data had revealed that between 1991 and 2001, population of Sikhs in Punjab rose by 18 lakh-an increase of 14%. Hindus increased by 20 lakh-a rise of 28%. In terms of percentage, the increase in Hindu population is double that of the Sikhs. Christians increased from 2.39 lakh to 2.92 lakh in 2001.

The recent conversion row in the border areas of Punjab by RSS had raised the pertinent question whether the population of any of the communities had actually witnessed any major trend in the recent years.

 

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BACK T

[Guest]

Paapiman: What religion were you born into?

he was born into the troll religion and paapman still follows the troll religion

[amardeep]

Utter besti if Sikhs become a minority in Punjab.

[mrsingh]

•  

Mrsingh: Was there a decline or increase in the Sikh population of Punjab from the 2001-2011 census?

Paji it's my understanding that our "percentage" decreased in the 10years between 2001 to 2011.

Sikhs (including dera followers who returned themselves as Sikhs) stood at 60% of Punjab population in 2001.

Given that Sikhs have the lowest fertility rate of the major religions with female infanticide, drug usage, cancer rates and alcohol related health problems being at record levels ... it seems inevitable to me that the Sikh percentage in Punjab was lower by 2011 than it was in 2001 (when it was 60%).

Note that after events in Vienna in 2009 there was a concerted push by Dera Ballan (funded by Congress) to expand their sphere of operations outside of primarily Doaba (where Sikhs are already a minority - and a lot of us Diaspora Sikhs have family links to Doaba).

As KD Singh Paji rightly pointed out the 2011 census results have deliberately not been released by the powers that be for over 4 years. My conclusion from that is that if Sikhs were alerted to the fact that we are heading towards becoming a minority in Punjab we would start to do something about it.

Our opponents do not want us to wake up and our opponents much rather we continue to listen to rhetoric from non-Sikhs like Paapiman (that excluding as many Sikhs from the Panth is the way to go).

Congress politicians have spoken in 2011 of Sikhs being 54% of the Punjab population (but then backtracked when they realised that official statistics have deliberately not been released to disclose this to the general public). Sikhs were 1.87% of the Indian population in 2001 and despite Christians obviously being more than us at over 2% as reported in KD Singh Paji's link i personally suspect Sikhs were around 1.7-1.8% of the Indian population in 2011. Consider that in the context that English-speaking Canada has a similar percentage of Sikhs.

And it's a sad indictment on us as ordinary Sikhs (myself included) that we have failed to explain our faith to other non-Punjabi communities (despite four of the Panj Piare being non-Punjabi) and that we always look for reasons to exclude people rather than welcome them (especially if they happen to be sehajdhari non-Punjabi Sikhs).

 

Utter besti if Sikhs become a minority in Punjab.

Paji we have always been a minority overall. So in 1800 we were 5% of Punjabi's at best. By 1849 that percentage for Sikhs had doubled to 10% of the Punjabi population. By 1947, Sikhs were 13% of the Punjabi poulation and we still remain at 13% of the population of those area's that comprised Punjab in 1947 (Pakistani Punjab, east Punjab, Haryana, Himachal, Chandigarh).

Even in Majha, Malwa and Doaba which comprise current day east Punjab we were a minority until 1947 with only about a third of the population being Sikh. Had so many HP's not falsely declared their mother tongue to be Hindi then Sikhs would have been just under half the population of the newly created Punjabi speaking state in 1966. If memory serves me correct we were in fact 54% then as a result of Punjabi speaking Hindu's having falsely declared their mother tongue to be Hindi (and therefore area's such as Kangra and Ambala thus falling outside of the newly created smaller Punjab).

Anybody who believes in Sikhi, knows it to be the Truth and would passionately want it to be not just a majority faith in Majha and Malwa but throughout India. As only with greater numbers can we influence the society around us to be like the Begumpura our Guru Sahib envisaged. If the Sikh Panth does not eradicate all recognition of caste and the associated apartheid from our mindset aggressively within the next 6years then it seems inevitable to me that we will be a minority in Punjab by 2021 with no pretensions to ever help all the hundreds of millions of poor people in India (outside Punjab) or globally that desperately need the Sikh Panth's help ... but we will have our work cut out just dealing with drugs, alcohol, female infanticide, biraderi apartheid, illiteracy, cancer and poverty in Punjab only as our opponents will see that it is the magic formula for how to do a silent Genocide of the Sikhs.

Instead of terming tens of millions of sincere Gurdwara Sangat as non-Sikhs we need to recognise and respect them as sehajdhari Sikhs as just like our opponents want to reduce us to a minority within even east Punjab, we can rebuild ourself to becoming a 99% majority in east Punjab and 100million strong population throughout India if only retrograde anti-Sikh hinking by the likes of Paapiman and others (who say exactly what Hindutva forces want them to) is rejected and we seek to build a bigger, more inclusive and more welcoming Panth whose agenda is simply Sarbat da Bhala.

 

Edited July 20, 2015 by mrsingh