What Is Shabad Guru?

[unbreakable]

Hi,

i was at the gurdwara earlier this week and overheard (I know very wrong), a conversation between two people about Shabad Guru.

one was saying sri guru granth sahib ji is shabad guru, the other was saying its a sound vibration, anhad shabad which is shabad guru...

can I get some member views, with references, what their opinions are, based on their education, etc?

[amardeep]

The second one is right.. Its the Shabad that is the Guru contained in the Granth

[unbreakable]

only one reply...

amardeep can you be more specific, and possibly reference some Gurbani too?

[amardeep]

bani guru guru hai bani is one reference.

Edited August 22, 2011 by amardeep

[unbreakable]

bani guru guru hai bani is one reference.

you said it was the second one, this tut backs up the first statement.

[SURYADEV]

I think there was an interesting post here by MJ a short while back. I can't recall where. the thread was about abrahamic/dharmic concept of 'scriptures' and its usage. He mentioned the term 'bani' comes from the the sanskrit 'vahh', ie air, or something spoken. IMO therefore shabad is the spoken word and not the written script on paper.

With that understanding 'Bani guru, guru he bani' backs up the latter statement. The spoken word is the guru.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

can I get some member views, with references, what their opinions are, based on their education, etc?

Before the attempt to answer your main question, a caveat; that the following views are my own, from personal reading and observations and not derived from any authority in these matters, so there could be mistakes.

Now my conscience is clear - - - i can say that Shabad in sanskrit means;

1. A written word.

2. sound, noise, voice, tone or note that carries a meaning intelligible to human understanding.

3. The syllable OAM. Or the word spoken by Parabrahm during creation.

These correspond to Adhibautik (gross) Adhyatmik (subtle) and Adhidaivik (subtlest)

We can use this base definition to consider that Shabad-Guru can be all three at the same time. Shabad-Guru in the Adhidaivik sense is the Shabad that was 'spoken' by God which created all things. A word is a vibration, which when spoken creates an effect in the listener, according to how he understands the word. So proceeding through analogy, the Shabad spoken by God creates an effect in the listener, which is primal matter, shakti or prakriti. The effect of this Shabad is the creation of all created things from Brahma to a clump of grass. A Guru speaks to his chela, so for Sikhs the actual Shabad is not Guru, but the One who pronounced it. In this sense Shabad is used in the possesive, as The Guru of the Shabad

Next the Shabad-Guru can be the vocal uccharan of Gurbani which creates a subtler effect than just a written word. According to my scheme even just looking at Gurbani Akher has an effect on a person, but it is not as strong as the uccharan effect. So the Akher of Gurbani are also Shabad-Guru because they represent the Highest Adhidaivik Shabad in written form. Like a Human Being has 1.Atma-Buddhi 2.Mann-Heart 3.Physical body. Shabad-Guru also has three bodies. The Atma of Shabad-Guru is Anahad Shabad which creates all worlds, The Mann of Shabad-Guru is uccharan and Shabad-Guru's physical body are the written Akher of Gurbani. So like Sants are powered by Anahad Shabad which is unseen and unheard, but they still speak and have a body, So Shabad-Guru is powered by the Highest Nirgun Shabad but also has less subtle forms we can interact with. This is because of Kirpa that we have these less subtle forms for the udhar of jeevs.

[harsharan000]

A beautiful and a very meaningful question raised by Jathedar||Jathedarni.

Shabad Guru, means the Shabad is the Guru. Now let us see, what does the word Guru mean? The word guru is composed by 2 syllables. The first one gu, means darkness, and the second one ru, means light, so the word by itself means the one who takes us from darkness towards the light.

This guru, usually is meant for teachers, professors, who teach us and prepare us with the knowledge as sciences, arts and sports... In each and every field, we have to learn something from some "master" or "ustaad".

Now what is Shabad? Shabad in true sense, mentioned in the Bani, is as same as Wahiguru Akal Purukh, as Satnam, as Alakh Purukh, as Agam Purukh... as Anamee...different terms, but one supreme reality.

And this Shabad, is Nirankar also, and morover the Bani tells us: Sach Khand vaseh Nirankar. This Shabad is also the Aad Guru by itself, since the very begining without any end, means, He is a perfect Guru by Himself, He did not have to learn anything from anybody, as He is the very first, without any second. The Bani in the mool mantra, very beautifully says:

Ik Onkar : there is only one Creator

Satnam: He is truth, means He exists forever, He is eternal, and His nature is Nam, or call it Shabad. So Satnam means, the Nam which is everlasting, throughout in the eternity. When the Gurmukhs use the term Truth, they refer it to something which is everlasting and is unchangeable. So, in this sense, that Nam, is Sat, means it is everlasting, is eternal.

Karta Purukh: He is the creator of all the creation, all the khands, brahmands, astral, causal and the pure spiritual realms or regions, with its rulers, up to Sach Khand, where He is resides, and that realm is also eternal and changeless like Him, that is why, the term Sach, is put before Khand, which means region.

Nirbhav, Nirvair: He is fearless and without any enemity with anybody, who is He to be afraid of? Who is above Him?

Akal Moorat: He is beyond the parameters of time and space, so He is eternal in terms of time.

Ajoonee: He does not die or is born like us, because He is birthless.

Seibhang: He exists by Himself, He is self sufficient, He depends on nobody, He is all by Himself.

My God, see how beautifully, and in a simplified manner, our Guru Sahibans have described the undescribable.

So that Shabad is an avastha, a highest level of consciousness, which is in simple words, is Sach-Chit-Anand, means everlasting truth, all consciousness, and all bliss. It is a life force existence by itself.

Now when we say, Shabad Guru, it means, that Shabad which is all pervading(sarva vyapak), all powerfull(sarva shakti shalee), all knowing(anteryamee), He irradiates light of wisdom, of kowledge, and love, anybody in the presence of this nam or Shabad, gets showered by its light(gyan, purity), knowledge(chetanta), and love(prem, bakshish).

Now, where, what for and why does He comes to manifest Himself. For these questions the Guru Granth Sahibs tells us:

Har Jee baseh sadh ke hirdey...Harjee baseh Sadh kee rasna... Har ka sevak, so Har jeha, bhed na jaano manush deha ... Nanak, Sadh, Prabh, bhed na bhaee... in summary, the bani says, He is to be found in His manifestations as Sadhs, as Gurmukhs. That is why, these Sadhs, these Gurmukhs, will always lay importance on one Wahiguru, and its real nature of Shabad, and the only method of Nam Simran, to realize Him and merge in Him. These Gurmukhs may come at any time or any place, time and place is no boundary for them, but their main teachings will always be of Nam and Shabad, as it is the only reality. They will not come to create any new dharma, or confuse and engage us with useless futile outer activities, neither they mix up into politics.... their only concern is Wahiguru and its bhakti through Nam Simran....they do not dress in any particular way, nor do they do anything(perform miracles) to attract masses, they earn their own living bread, and they will always say: you are the living temple, where Wahiguru resides, so worship Him there...the rest of the creation is "fanaah" perishable, is consciousless, or subhuman lower species, just as plants, insects, birds, fishes and animals, in which, He is not to be found. The human form, is the only privileged form, for this blessed realization, this form is also called "Nar Naryanee deh".

Gurmukhs can be at any times or palces, like our Guru Sahibans, or the rest of Gurmukhs, some mentioned in our Bani, like: Kabir Sahib, Guru Ravi Das... and others like Paltu Sahib, Dariya Sahib, Sant Tukaram . If we see the teachings of all these Gurmukhs, Nam or Shabad, is their main objective , through Nam Simran alone... these are the visible signs among them, so to say, to recognize them.

But to recognize them, is not in our hands at all. This type of Gurmukh maybe our very neighbour, oe even born in our house as a family member, but if we are not destined to recognize and accept Him, we shall never be able to do so.

For example, Prithi Chand, had a father, and a brother as Gurmukhs , but inspite of being so near them, and having their darshan so much, he failed to recognize them, what a pity... But the thing is, no one can go against His will. On the other side you may be living seven seas away, but you will autmatically get pulled to a Gurmukh, because Wahiguru has so willed.

Now the following questions, of what for or why does He come? According, to the teachings our Gurus, He comes to awaken us from our deep sleep, for we have forgotten our origin, and have been once again fallen off from the track of real bhakti, and have entangled ourselves in squareminded religions, outer practices, like pilgrimamges, baths at so called holy places...and a large list of these practices.

As Wahiguru is the only reality, and if we have to reach the undescribable One, Nirankar; so naturally, only the resident of that Anamee Region, call it Sach Khand if you want, is the only capable and all powerfull one, to take back with Him, whom He wants so.Otherwise we are all wandering astray in the Chaurasee ka chakar...

So He comes and manifests Himself in the form of a Gurmukh, as seen according to the Guru Granth Sahib. But what for?
For our liberation from maya, and Kal Purukh, who have kept us prisoners here ...up to the region of Braham or Trikuti.

Naturaully only the one beyond from Braham, means Paarbraham Parmeshwar, which is the only power, superior,to defeat, these barriers in the way of the soul towards its destination, Sach Khand.

Now, this Shabad, works as Guru for the soul, towards the Sat, shows and guides him through the path of Nam, with its light and sound of Shabad.

This is when we say Shabad Guru, Dhun Chela...means the real form of the Gurmukh is Shabad, and the real form of a sikh, the disciple is the soul. Neither the Satguru is the body, neither the sikh is the body, beacuse both of them, shall have leave their physicall coverings(bodies) sooner or later, but the evolution and progress continues, through out all astral causal and spiritual stages, with the company of the Shabad Guru, who once got hold of that particular soul on the earth plane, by giving it the Gurparsad, the updesh, the bakshish.

And that is why also, the Bani says: Sant sang, Prabh anter deetha. Means, in the company now of Shabad, who once was a Gurmukh, a Sant , a Sadh while I was on the earth present like Him, and got His Gurparsad. That is why the bani says: Ik Onkar, Satgur parsad, means the only one Wahiguru Akal Purukh, can be realized by the Gurprasad got from a Gurmukh, because if there is no Gumukh, where can Gurparsad be got?

And so He can never be unjust to us His children, He knows, without Gurparsad we naver ever get true freedom...so naturally He has to continue come, time after time as a Sant, a Gurmukh... a Sadh.

The Bani says: Sant parsad, jaapiye Har Nao, means, the gurparsad a Gurmukh gives us as a blessing, through its jaap, its kamaee, its bandagee, is the valid method to reunite us with Akal Purukh.

I know many may object what I say, because we have different backgrounds and envoiremnets, where we have been brought up, but if given a deeper insight to the Bani, we shall see the logic side and its real meaning.

People along the history, have tried to hide the truths of the Bani, and have thus twisted its meaning, because themselves are agyanis, and have have done a big unjustice to the humanity, by hiding and twisting the truths of the Bani, but as long as Gurmukhs go on coming at our human level, the truths of the Bani, shall be presented to us, in a logic and rational manner, only then, can real unwavering faith be planted in us.

Wah wah, Sachay Badshah, Ooch Apaar Beabt Soami, kaun jaane guna Tere.

Edited January 24, 2014 by harsharan000

[Guest]

Awesome post harsharan veer ji,

If i may add to your post- important bit of mool/maha mantra for sangat:

Gurparsad means kirpa(grace) of Guru. Guru Means Gu(darkness) Ru(light) bringing one from darkness to Light, Parsad means - Kirpa(grace) so combined- Gurparsad means kirpa/grace of Guru.

Gurparsad also means on deep esterotic spiritual level as Consciousnesses/awarenesss bliss- Gur(Chaitan- Consciousness) and parsad- Anand- Bliss

[harsharan000]

Most welcome brother N30 SINGH,

you see, Gurprasad, as kirpa or as bakshish, is something given by a Sadh; it is not like magican who, wavers it´s stick... at our human level, even if Wahiguru wanted to pull us at His level, He can not do so, beacuse we are not that pure enough yet, we need to be purified, and that is only possible with Nam Bhakti, which a Sadh, a Gurmukh, gives you that as a jugtee, or updesh.

It is a slow process,,which can we achieve by persisting and will power, through Nam Simran alone. And so what bigger Gurparsad can be that, of getting something, which can free us from all bondages.

Sadhus, gods, godesses, can give you the reign of the three worlds, but even then we are prisoners, we are not free...here lies the importance of a Gurmukh and His Gurparsad

Even Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj, sheds us some light on this topic in Raag Soohee:

ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਗੁਰੁ ਆਇ ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਲੀਖਿਆ

Thinhaa Miliaa Gur Aae Jin Ko Leekhiaa

तिन्हा मिलिआ गुरु आइ जिन कउ लीखिआ

The Guru comes to meet those whose destiny is so pre-ordained

Comes to meet the preordained, but what for?

In the follwing line, Guru Sahiban, answers our question.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਉ ਦੇਵੈ ਦੀਖਿਆ

Anmrith Har Kaa Naao, Dhaevai Dheekhiaa

अम्रितु हरि का नाउ देवै दीखिआ

He blesses them with the Teachings of the Ambrosial Name of the Lord.

So here we can clearly see, that the blessing, the grace, the Gurparsad, which is refered to, is the teachings, the updesh.

And the Amrit which then flows from its Jaap, washes all our impurities, is also confirmed in the following words of Baba Nanak:

ਰਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਤਬ ਮਥੀਐ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪਾਵਹੁ

Rasanaa Naam Japahu, Thab Mathheeai Ein Bidhh Anmrith Paavahu

रसना नामु जपहु तब मथीऐ इन बिधि अम्रितु पावहु

Chant the Nam with the tongue of your mind, then the Ambrosial Nectar is obtained in your head, means at the third eye, the upper and inner part of our body, where the door to the spirituality is located.

We may read any ang of the Granth Sahib, only mahima of Nam and its bhakti is stressed upon. Why? Beacuse it is the only truth, which can pull us out from the perishable creation.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ਤੂੰ ਬਧਾ ਛੁਟਹਿ ਜਿਤੁ

Naanak Naam Samaal, Thoon Badhhaa Shhuttehi Jith

नानक नामु समालि तूं बधा छुटहि जितु

O Nanak, contemplate the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and you shall be released from all bondages.

Any other thing or activity apart from Nam Bhakti, is a bondage on the soul, that is why Gurmukhs stress only on Nam or Shabad. Which is the only permanent, changeless and everlasting reality.

The beauty of the Bani, is beyond any description, one just rejoices in bliss, just by understanding and going through the Bani alone, what to say, when you put it into practice...speechless.

Wahiguru jeeo.

Edited December 12, 2013 by harsharan000

[PAL 07]

Shabad means language/words/ terminology

The shabad Guru means the words of Guru ie language, Gurmukhi, Gurbani

Look for the shabad about Akhar in Jap Ji Sahib

Edited December 17, 2013 by PAL 07

[harsharan000]

Dear Veer jee PAL07,

the meaning you convey, is true to an extent also. But let us ponder a little bit.

The language you mention like, gurmukhi or let us say Gurbani .....the words of the Gurus....

How long could that have been.... 600 years... or perhaps 700 years back at most, or if we want several thousands, or millions of years?

What about, before that?

Just when there was no creation yet... physical, astral or causal...for example

In which language do we think, Wahiguru Akal speaks, or spoke to bring the creation forth?

Let us widen our horizons, and not make Akal Purukh as petty and limited as we are.

The Shabd of which Guru sahibans or Gurmukhs talk about, is a Consciouss power or energy of the highest order, with all that it implies... in one word omnipotent, or all powerful.

This Shabad power, is not of made of any language or words to say. It is referred as Shabd by the Saints, because it vibrates, it can be heard,and if we have access to the higher realms where it is manifested more openly....then even light can be seen. Just as the sun irradiates light and heat, in the same way, this Shabad or Nam, can be heard and seen, but not with these our eyes or ears, but with the faculties of the soul to see which is called "nirat", and the faculty to listen it,"surat" .

And according to the Saints, this Shabad is present in each and every atom of this creation .... we could say, all seen or unseen creation, has sprout out of this very Shabad. This Shabad as such, is an ocean of love, of mercy, of bakshish, of daya meher...

That is why Guru Nanak said, Shabde Dhartee, Shabde Akash, Shabde Shabad bhaya parkash...Nanak, Shabad, ghatey ghat acchey...

And moreover the Bani also says: Anter Jot Niranter Bani, Saachay Sahib siu liv lae .... Means there is sound and pure luminous light in this Shabad, and then when you come in contact with it, it will produce true permanent love in your heart, fot that Supreme True Lord.

Guaru Amar Das tell us how to listen this Shabad: Nam jiske man vaseh... vajeh Shabad ganere. Meditate, do kamaee of that Nam, and you shall be blessed, by feeling it within you... you shall realize its majesty and its greatness ...

This Shabad has nothing to do with any culture, community, race, or geographical location. It is above, prakirti, the 3 gunas,the mind,maya, the 5 gyan indriyas and 5 karam indriyas...above Kal and Mahkal ... He is Nirankar, Alakh, Agam.... He is known thus as Akal Purukh also.

If He is aroop or Niarankar, means, with which body is He going to talk, and in which language, and with whom?

There where He is , He alone exists...with whom is He going to consult or ask advice, or what to do, or ask ideas?

He is inmersed in Himself. He is vismaad.... He is wonderful...beyond any thought or reason.

The Bani says:

ਆਪੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਆਪੁ ਸਾਜਿਓ ਆਪੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਰਚਿਓ ਨਾਉ

Aapeenhai Aap Saajiou Aapeenhai Rachiou Naao

आपीन्है आपु साजिओ आपीन्है रचिओ नाउ

He Himself created Himself; He Himself assumed His Name.

Guru Sahiban is saying: That He created Himself, and has established Himself as Nam or Shabad...that is His reality, presnt in each being, available to all without any dicrimination or distinction, of class, caste, race, community, or land... whosoever wadbhagee jeev, goes and prays in the real temple, shall find Him, in the form of Shabad.

Wah wah Sachay Badshah, kaun janeh guna tere...Ooch Apaar Beant Soami.

Edited December 18, 2013 by harsharan000

[Lucky]

I like to think of NAAM as the highest level of consciousness of which this consciousness is manifest in all of us and creation. Our consciousness is like a power, force or jyot from the original Noor conscious.

AND then, I like to think of SHABAD as the Vibration of this naam, that again, is within all of us and in all of creation.

SHABAD is actually too huge an entity to try and define/describe/confine in a box or attach some label. I think that it's meaning and essence can change for all of us as we progress.

Naam jinkey mann vasey, vajey shabad ganarey. - When you connect to or acknowledge the naam in the mind, then in this same mind you can feel/hear the vibration of the shabad.

[Guest]

I like to think of NAAM as the highest level of consciousness of which this consciousness is manifest in all of us and creation. Our consciousness is like a power, force or jyot from the original Noor conscious.

AND then, I like to think of SHABAD as the Vibration of this naam, that again, is within all of us and in all of creation.

SHABAD is actually too huge an entity to try and define/describe/confine in a box or attach some label. I think that it's meaning and essence can change for all of us as we progress.

Naam jinkey mann vasey, vajey shabad ganarey. - When you connect to or acknowledge the naam in the mind, then in this same mind you can feel/hear the vibration of the shabad.

Great post, thats exactly what it is...sukhmani sahib talks about it..vahiguroo...amazing post bro as always.

[PAL 07]

Shabad guru surt dhun chela

Concentration of surti into naam (vaheguru akhar)

[harsharan000]

Mitter Lucky,

it is verily true, that Wahiguru or Nam and Shabad, is the highest level of Consciousness, and I do totally agree, that it vibrates and is present in us, as well in the creation

Now all that is o.k, and we almost all know the infinite majesty and virtues of this Power.

And we also know that we are weak, and if we want to be clean and pure, the Bani says: Nam jinke man vaesh, vajey Shabad ganere.

Let us see it the other way round also, to grasp the meaning properly of this beautful tuk.

Shabad vajey ganere, Nam jinke man vaseh.

Guru Sahiban is saying , whosoever that wadhbhagee jeev implants the Nam in his mind, he listens and feels the vibration of that Nam...

So what is that impalnting Nam all about?

Guru Sahiban, as stated above, is saying Nam is already there, but to make it manifest, or audible and felt, you have to implant it, in your mind .

And impalnting it in our minds, means, to establish it firmly in your mind, by its Simran. Now, all our consciousness is scattered in the world, maya and its objects.

But with Nam Simran, what we do, is collect our consciousness, out from all these things through the nine portals or indriyas, and elevate it to the tenth door at the third eye, where through focused concentartion, we enter into the inner spiritual realms, and put ourselves in harmony with that Primal force or energy, which is called as Amrit also, in our scriptures.

When we expose ourselves to this Nam and bath into it, by listening to it, it cleanses all our karmas, removes the layers upon layers of dirt accumulated in uncountable births, sanskaras..etc... and thus frees us from all bondages.

This is the only remedy to become pure and paviter, to be worthy, to merge in our origin, Satnam samundra

The Bani says: nimakh nimakh kar sareer kataveh, toh bheeh haume mel na jaaveh...

Plus, this Nam simran makes the mind motionless, and slowly and slowly,as it also becomes pure by tasting this very Nam, it loosens its control, and leaves its grip from the soul...thus the soul, gains its true freedom, and starts with that very Shabad, recovering its true essence, gaining its consciousness once again.

Only when we fully realize who or what we are, then only, we will have full faith and start walking in the right direction.

The bani in the Sloks of Ninth Patshah clearly lays emphasize on all this topic, of what we are talking about:

gun gobind gayo nahi, janam akarth kiin ....

The Gurmukhs say: Wahiguru is the only one reality and truth, everything else is fanah, is koor... so if we attach ourselves to that reality only, we shall be able to cross this bhavsagar...but if apart from that One Truth, we cling or get attached to anything else, we shall remain wandering aimlessly in this creation...the option is ours.

And that attaching ourselves to Wahiguru, is none other, than the sacred method of Nam Simran alone.

Nam Simran is no small thing, and it is not for cowards, but for the strong ones.

Because, then one does not care for the world, as per what they will say .... but one cares only for his objective, which is Wahiguru alone.

Though Paree Puran Parmatma, is Nirankar...but He has made Himself available to us, in a very simple way, through His simran, that is why the bani says:

Prabh ka Simran, Har gun bani.

Prabh ka Simran, sabh te oochaa.

Har simran meh, Prabh aap Nirankara

Our Gurus have not left any stone unturned, to just make us understand that Wahiguru whom we all search for, is to be found only within us, and that also, only with a particular jugtee, which is Nam Simran.

This could be the whole summary, in a few words, from the teachings of our Guru Sahibans , for any seeker of the one Truth, Akal Purukh.

So if we all know and agree, that Shabad or Nam is already in each one of us, in equal proprtion...then why do we not understand, that if He is to be found within us according to the Bani, why do we do not stop running outside after mere shadows, when the true Light is inside us, to help us, to guide us...

Sat Sree Akal.

Edited December 20, 2013 by harsharan000

[PAL 07]

.

Edited December 31, 2013 by PAL 07

[harsharan000]

Almost all of us by now, know what is the term Shabad .

And the term Guru also, means the dispeller of darknes, the remover of darkness.

But what type of darkness is, the one which the Guru removes?

Is it the darkness of the night, which our Guru Sahibans refer to?

No, the darkness which the Bani refers, is the univerasl one, which is spread throughout, and covers all the creation below Sach Khand, the land of eternal Light.

And the other darkness, which is referred to, is the individual or collective darkness, in the form of ignorance, superstitions, and as well as, the other outer activities used for God realization.

So there are 2 ways of removing these 2 types of darkness.

Firstly, by getting in the company of the holy, or Sadh kee Sangat, because there, our budh, our vivek, sense of discrimination, of the unreal and real, is awakened and developed.

Once this is done, then naturally, one tries to find the only One everlasting Truth, which is Satpurukh or Satnam.

This is the key to the second and final awareness. So when we turn our attention inwards to find that Truth, again we see nothing but darkness. And this darkness, can not be dispelled by any torch light or bulb, nor thousands of suns and moons together. The inner realms are inmense....

So there in those planes, that Shabad guides the sikh, the soul, the chela ... thus is called Shabad Guru, because it guides the soul with its radiance(divine light) and melodious Sounds(Shabad) emanating from that "attee sundar roop" , right up to its real Home: Sach Khand.

If it was not in the company of the Shabad, the soul can never reach it´s Home, because the darkness there is so thick, that unless one gets hold to that Shabad or Nam, it is impossible otherwise.

Now, we may say, it is fine to hold to the Shabad, but how to do that, or is it possible to do that. Because that Nam is within us, how to reach there or get hold of that Shabad Guru?

Well, the Bani says: awar kaaj tere kitteh na kaam, mil Sadh Sangat aur bhaj kewal Nam.

Just do Nam Simran with love and faith, and we shall sit in the Jahaaz of Nam, and sail safely without any fear, to our Nijh Ghar, Sach Khand.

This is the wadeeayee of Shabad Guru

Edited January 9, 2014 by harsharan000

[harsharan000]

Above any preferences, interpretations, likes or dislikes, what should prevail, is the truth of the Bani.

Whether there is any outer guru or not at any times at all, our Guru Granth Sahib, gives us the right dirtections to clear our doubts, if any.

It says : Shabad Guru. Means, that Aad Guru, Satguru, true Guru, which is Wahiguru Akal Purukh, is within each and everyone of us.

The Bani says: Shabad Guru, Surat Dhun chela.

What does our Guru Sahibans want to convey us?

That any outer Guru, though all powerfull is limited; because that Guru is not the body, nor anything physical at all, neither the sikh, the disciple, the chela is the body... because both of them have to discard their physicall coverings one day, sooner or later...so then, where is that outer guru to guide that soul in the inner realms?

Naturally if it is outside, it can not go with us after death.

On the contrary, if according to Gurmat, we contact and get hold of that our inner Guru while living, surely He will guide us back home, by being with us at all times, until He, me/we..become one with Him without any distinction.

This is the mahanta of our Sikhee, of our Guru Sahibans. They unite us, with that primal and eternal Truth.

And this no theory, we have a few brothers members on Sikh Awreness, who are a living example of what is being stated( I do not want to mention their names, but we all know who are these wadbagee brothers).

The idea is to be able to merge in the Guru, and Guru in Wahiguru. So let us think, if the Guru was anything physical at all, and if we die, is our soul going to merge in that body or anything physical for example? If not, how can we call it, the only Guru.

Our Guru Sahibans, were the manifestations of Wahiguru, but inspite of that fact, they are limited to an extent.

For example Prithi Chand, was living among 2 Satgurus, Sree Guru Ram Das and Sachay Patshah Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj, having their darshans daily...but inspite of that, he did not become pure, rather he was wicked, laalchee up to his end ....

So the outer gurus are just to inspire us, to build that faith and strengthen our love for Wahiguru Akal Purukh, but the real removing of dirt of our filthy minds, or purification, will be done, if only, we attach ourselves to our inner Shabad Guru.

That is why, in the whole of the Granth sahib, so much stress is laid on Nam or Shabad, because it is by a practical method of loving Wahiguru, through Nam Simran, that we can be able to merge in Him.

That is why, in Asa di war, our Guru says: : KAHO NANAK, SACH DHIAEEAE, SUCH HOVAE, TA SACH PAEEYE. Means,meditate on that Truth, that you become the same, in order to merge in that Truth.

We are limited by nature, so we try to judge and see things from our limited poor vision; but our Guru Sahibans, have chalked the way for us, through Gurmat, so that by following it implicitly, fulfill the purpose of our lives, by merging ourselves, our soul consciousness, in that Supreme Consciousness, namely Akal Purukh.

Gurmat did not start with Guru nanak Dev Maharaj, neither did it end with Dasvee Patshahee.

That is why the Bani says:

Eh nidaan japai man koe, sabh jug mah taa kee gat ho'e
Whoever meditates on this treasure(of Nam) within (one´s body or Harmandir),
in any of the four yugas, is liberated.

Our Guru Sahibans, have very clearly said, for all the 4 yugas. Guru Nanak came on earth about 700 years ago, so what about those before Him?

Were all destined to go to hell, beacuse Guru Nanak was not there?

Let us widen our horizons, outer gurus, mahapurkhs, gurmukhs are all most welcome with wide opened arms, but that Guru who will save us from lives and deaths, is the Shabad Guru within us, as stated in the Bani. But the thing is, as we can not see Him inside, we try to hold His outer physical temporary form. True Guru, as Consciousness, guides us with His phisicall form, by giving us the method, the jugtee, by singing His glory and awaken our love for Him, that is all, but to lift our souls in the inner planes, that job is done by His Shabad swaroop.

Let us ponder a little bit, if all our Guru Sahibans who came, and had to leave one day, if they were not limited to an extent , had they got to leave us and go? The body, the phisicall, is just a covering on the bulb, the Light, the energy is inside...which merges in the Akhand Jot, when leaves this plane.

It is from there, where they came, their true Home, and it is there where they go from here...and it is there also where they invite us to go with them.

Who wants to stay in this land of tears, pains and misery...that is not their purpose. If the phisical guru was the the Guru here, why at all would they talk about Shabad, Nam or Sach Khand...and inspire us to go there, and merge in that Shabad?

That Guru who was present , who is present, and who shall remain present forever. Aad Sach, Jugad sach, hae bhee Sach, Nanak hosee bhee Sach

Because the true Guru does not want us to bow unto Him, because bowing to Him does not take us anywhere, rather He wants our hearts, our minds and souls to be absorbed in Nam alone, and He wants to awaken us from our ignorance, of going and running outside, but take our souls higher and higher, through boarding the jahaz of Nam, and reach Sach Khand, there where the Truth has its permanent abode.

We are only gursikhs, if we follow implicitly Gurmat.

Waheguru.

*Please do not misunderstand me, I only want awareness of the truths in the Bani, and not our "maanmat". I feel so sorry, when I see, we have the best teachers, our Guru Sahibans, the best path,"Gurmat"·, and still then we are wandering, like those of other religions here and there outside, and then too we proudly say we are sikhs ....bhool chuk maaf

Edited January 25, 2014 by harsharan000

[Sahib]

We can never come to a conclusion...so lets go and have an individual experience and the way will be teached very much inside

[harsharan000]

We can never come to a conclusion...so lets go and have an individual experience and the way will be teached very much inside

Veer Jee,

sorry to contradict you. But the thing is, we can come to an conclusion, because the Bani is there to guide us, and make our resolutions firm, in order to reach that Highest Truth.

Is not a conclusion that Wahiguru is Ik? And not multiplicity like in other dharamas.

Is it not a conclusion, He is the only Truth? Because in other dharmas, they place their faith in variety.

Is it not a conclusion we as souls are His particles, in essence? Many believe they are the body, and even after death there are different nationalities and dharmic alike to be found in the spiritual planes.

Is it not a conclusion,that He is Omnipresent, Omnipotent,and Omniscient? Many do not believe in God, many more believe ther are genders and there are many gods with different powers...

So you see, the list of conclusion can be a long one, but yet they are sound conclusions definitively . If we want to achieve something, we have to draw a line somewhere, we can not have nonsense and sense at the same time.

So in order to sort out our misconceptions, and reach conclusions, it would better if we guide ourselves with the gyan of Gurmat.

And regarding the statement that, the way will be teached inside; don´t you think or agree that, the way is taught and described outside, inwards, we have only to apply ourselves to what we have learnt outside, and just walk through it inside, and that way is none other than devotion for the Lotus Feet of Wahiguru.

Outside is only learning, inside is, only realizing that learnt outside.

Outside is learning, inside is the homework.

Waheguru.

Edited September 5, 2014 by harsharan000

[Sahib]

Bilkul ji..i am sorry.i not at all meant to offend you..maybe i couldnt write what i wanted to say.i didnt mean that we should end this topic here.what i meant to say was that it will stay a matter of debate .we can be fully satisfied with the answer of 'what is shabad guru' only by our inner experience by his grace..now some radhaswamis say shabad guru is referred to as initial yogic sounds heard in meditation..some say shabad is the guru mantra..some say its the

sat shabad or naam which is shabad..i get confused some times and then i prepare myself to stop thinking about these topics and i should concentrate on japping naam (waheguru) and try to focus on it. I hope to get answers inside one day..i hope we all does

[Lucky]

Shabad Guru comes from the ONG. as in Ik Ong kaar.

You start hearing the Ong at first but it takes a long time for it to fully manifest and for you to realise what it's all about.

The intial yogic sounds are not shabad but vibrations and energies from your chakras that start getting aligned with gurmantar shabad.

It's taken me over a year to realize this after going 'to and fro' many times.

I think my understandings a little stable now,..... but you never know.... I may say something else in a few months !!!

[PAL 07]

ive come to realize that shabad means gurmantar ie vaheguru

[Lucky]

ive come to realize that shabad means gurmantar ie vaheguru

That is Guru-shabad.

We use Guru-Shabad to help us get to the Shabad-Guru.

I understand that there is a difference between Shabad-Guru and Guru-shabad.