CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Ok... I'm very open minded so I want ur opinions, I want this to be a good discussion alrite ppl, and don't worry about ticking me off... I'm kewl with all, so chill and relax (I'm a debater so it's in me to refute refute refute....lol...) Reading a couple of posts this past week has made me feel that sikhism is going to become another taliban regime, Examples: Women should not expose skin at all for if she does, she's goin to make some guy look at her and make him want to have sex with her.... (what a shame!!!) She should not wear make up as it goes again to the first point that she's making herself look prettier and some guy is gonna want to wack her up. There isn't a need to wear make up, God's made u beautiful as u are....(the excuse) There should be no dancing as when one dances lustful thoughts float in that persons mind as well as the ppl around them... Also no listening to other kinds of music because it reduces everyone to lustful beasts, only religious music.... Wow... thank God we at least don't have a single country that can be taken over.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Totally agree with you. It's amazing how so-called Gursikhs (AKJ and other types) are in fact as horrible as the Taliban!!!!!!!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moderator note: Discuss this topic with Sikhism point of view, no attack on any specific jatha ..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Gurfateh Women should not expose skin at all for if she does, she's goin to make some guy look at her and make him want to have sex with her.... (what a shame!!!) She should not wear make up as it goes again to the first point that she's making herself look prettier and some guy is gonna want to wack her up. There isn't a need to wear make up, God's made u beautiful as u are....(the excuse) There should be no dancing as when one dances lustful thoughts float in that persons mind as well as the ppl around them... Also no listening to other kinds of music because it reduces everyone to lustful beasts, only religious music.... Exposing skin eg. tummy, wearing make up doesn't really do much for spirituality, if it does, I'd like to know how? I'm assuming you want to know whether this is acceptable in Gurmat. Both of these things do not aid your spiritual growth, but they hinder it. You look good, you attract people, you wear bana, you attract people in a different way, no point in describing what the difference is reaction is going to be, everyone can guess. I want to ask everyone, if you wear makeup are you making yourself feel good to increase your self confidence? If so, why is your confidence so easily affected by others opinions? Unless, you believe they come before God. I really cannot understand why Sikh girls find this so hard to understand. There is no prohibition of these things as strictly as in the 'Taliban' regime, but the whole point of Sikhi is to move upwards spiritually, so these things were probably not even deemed important enough to be restricted? I don't know about anyone else, but of all the Singhanis I know, who are advanced spiritually, humble, imbued in Vaheguru's love, don't need to increase their self confidence in these ways. As for music, I don't see the problem in listening to any type of music, unless it makes you feel or act in a way which is controlled by Kaam, I sing so I listen to all kinds of music, as an educational aid, I don't see the problem with that. Lalleshwari, I don't see why you have to resort to bashing other groups like AKJ, I am not a member, but the people I know who are actively involved with it are the nicest people I have ever met, so rehatvaaley, it's amazing, and the have left these mundane things like makeup and exposing whatever part of your body to look good behind, they find the confidence they get from Naam Simran far superior. Gurfateh Gurpreet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 It's not about the exposing skin or make up thing... It's about forcing one's opinion on another... So far everything that I have read is about how other chicks r mashed up because they a) wear make up and don't have any self esteem or b)they expose their tummy...dear Lord!!! A sari exposes one's stomach, does that mean I'm not allowed to wear a sari now??? Anyways, my main thing is, if onedon't like it, don't do it, but that doesn't mean one has to go around saying that it's not sikhi to do it... None of us know what God is going to judge us upon... we have guidelines to follow, yes, but it doesn't restrict us from enjoying our life, u have a chance to make the most of it ... one can attain a meeting wit God even if they're a prostitute as our Bani has said, who r we to judge then... All we can do is be the best sikhs (whatever that may mean to u) and move on with our own lives... I've got enough confidence to speak infront of hundreds of ppl on various occasions... I don't wear make up to school or to work... However when I dress up for a wedding or reception, yes I wear make up to enhance the outfit that I'm wearing... the whole package, just for myself... so that I know that I'm cooridinated.... it doesn't always have to be about confidence, sometimes it's just for ur own self... one doesn't have to sing kirtan, but we do cuz it makes us feel betta, it gives us a little extra zing compared to the Bani by itself... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Just my 2 cents.... First of all.................................There is NO "I" Or "ME" in sikhi....If you are stuck with "I" and "Me" then you are away far from spirtual journey then you need someone to deflate your ego and prepare you first. Because sikhi marg is a prema marg. When you see God in all you acheive God. Even our guroo sahiban's consider themselves "Lowest of the low"....I dont know if you guys can see an angel of my post related to this post but i certainly can... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukhsingh Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 seriously though, if make up and dat stuff makes u happy, good luck... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 as with everything, small things can turn into big debates but you must use ur own illtelligence to see what is right and what is wrong - i dont agree with forcing people oh u have to do this and you have to do that as everyone knows sikhi is a personal journey for each individuals, some people can be totally strict and some can be very flexible i think its right to respect everyones views but i dont think it is right to see back and watch someone do something which is considered wrong, in this case i would give my personal opinion this whole debate over make up is very minor if you look at it.. every day we use cosmetics of some sort, we wake up n use toothpaste to brush our teeth, we use soap as we have our ishnaan - some people use talcam powder... deodrants.. and creams... isnt this a way of making ourselfs look nicer or smell nicer? when we get dressed we dont dress like tramps we dress to look nice.. if the whole idea of "you use make up to look nice and improve ur image" held any water then you could argue - then get dressed in the dark and just wrap ur paag without lookin in the mirror and dont care if it looks messy the main thing is that we all improve our image in some way or other, whether its by taking time to tie our dastaars - buy nice clothes (not nessarilly designer ones but nice kapra and not tatty stuff)... do we do this cos we care about attracting the opposite sex?... no course not.. we do it for ourselfs, that a singh or singhni can be seen as someone who takes pride in their image... there is a fine line between looking nice for yourself or for someone else - i dont disagree with someone wearing makeup... if it makes them feel positive about themselves there is nothing wrong with it... but as i said there is a fine line.. if you slap on pure makeup and tart urself to purposly gain attention up thats not right.. im talkin about blue eyeliner and all sorts of other stuff...if you use a small amount just udey then i see it as acceptable.. dont compare sikhism with the taliban regime cos that is very offensive for everyone here - use ur own mind to compare what you feel is right and what is wrong to certain extents - we can argue over the smallest things but is it really worth it??.. we should care more about what the real tenents of sikhi are- as long as you respect yourself and you respect guru ji - follow guru jis teachings and everything else will come to you with time fateh ji 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samosasingh Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 To the person who posed this question: What you need to ask yourself is if you have experienced sikhi??? Are you committed to the path.? Those that are will not consider dancing and "punjabi culture". The khalsa has its own culture, its own way of interactions, and in all of these interactions you will find the essence of Satguru teachings, which is the very sap of there life. You will find the love of god in all of it. But if you are not committed to the path then of course you will say this because you don't know really what this world is, and that we have to answer for all of our deeds. Have you experienced Amrit Raas??? If not your thinking will also and I am sorry to say this, but will be geared towards pleasing others and not towards the truth of life. A great sant once said there are 2 types of karmas good and bad, whatever breath you don't remember god you have planted a bad karma which you will have to answer for. You are thinking this world is true and you will last forever. When you realize that we are hear for a cause, which is to fall in love with god, you will not even think of doing these "neech karmas". This is one of the main teachings of bani: "don't waste your time!!!!!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherni-E-Punjab Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 No offence to anyone, but I'll have to agree with gurpreet penji here. She took the words out of my mouth...! Thought I do agree with Steel Bangle to a certain extent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Hmmmm.... Alrite... Sikhism is indeed a beautiful religion, it's one filled with love of God.... Thing is the way I see ppl discuss certain issues here, it makes me wonder... Everything that the taliban had done was done in the name of religion... whateveryone is talking about here is in the name of religion... One may not see the similiarities because one is sooo involved with their ideologies... but I see it... it's a restriction on women (as well as men)... One is being conformed into this ideal being for God... I don't believe God would want u to lead a life of pure acetism... I don't get it, is one not supposed to enjoy this life that we have been so graciously given... I'm not saying go waste it wit some cheap drunkards or mess around wit it... But within reason, one should be able to do as they feel...whether it be wearing make up, showing a bit of tummy, or dancing the nite away... I'm beginning to think that perhaps it ppl out there that r having the bad thoughts rather than the person doing all that.... if one keeps bringin it up, then obviously that person has partaken to it... and they should work on themselves... I haven't had such thoughts as everyone has said while doing all that has been critisized... and no did i ever look at all of these things as being negative until i read some posts here and i still don't seem them as negative... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 its juss the over all image, as u all know i am 100% fundementle, without actually acting on it, i believe in every thing in sikhi bar none....down to the fact that as a non-amritdhari/shasterdhari, u r not a sikh. but as soon as some ppl, start saying bhangra, makeup, or ne thing other then phaat shoudl be shut down is wrong, iv'e heard it many times...tha's whats soo different about sikhi, it allows freedom of actions, obviously rah rah di gal ah, so what i'm trying to say is that, with creation of khalistan which i sooo deraly want the only thing that worries me is this.... will there be to much control on the public as far as non-sikhi is related, sikhi wise, no doubt, governing like all countries do no doubt, but the only thing that owrriez me is that all luxiries etc other then naam (the greatest of luxaries) will be banned. Now plz no1 take my words to heart, its not directed at ne one is specific, and if ne one feels so, i sinceraly apologize KHALISTAN....................ZINDABAAD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukhsingh Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 slandering anyone or any jatha is really really bad... dont say things like dat... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Sukh Singh ji, I don't get what u mean... no one has slandered any jatha or anyone for that matter... we're trying to keep it general as possible (except for one person...) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 and if sikhi is followed correctly, u will c that there will be no shunning women, so don't say thats a sikh thing, thats a cultural, man freak control thing..... sikhi does'tn c man or woman, it Cs KHALSA but as some1 stated we came to this world to enjoy life...every1 has a different idea of what "enjoying" is... i think a true khalsa will find doing seva, naam simiran as the extreem end of enjoyment....something u can't get bored off and can do for hours or days or even damn yrs on end..or for ur whole life yet some ppl find bhangra as pleausre, which is well and good, but unlike iwth seva and other sikhi-related activities is that 1 does tend to get bored, and also go beyond just that activites and fall into lust and shunned on desires such as drinkign and drugs....so with things of such calibre there must be a very high level of self control, and in the end of the day, one should remember god, not what u did last night...... i'm sorry i dunno i think i may have went off topic, or even lost my topic, if there wuz one 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truesingh Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 first of all comparing sikhi to the ruthless taliban is an insult secondly i just wanna ask what ru gonna gain by showing ur skin? tummy? legs or whatever?......for both guys and girls. if a guru ka sikh thinks he/she is gonna send out a positive image by showing skin or whateva then go for it. my opinion is that a guru ka sikh should act/dress in a way that would be acceptable to guru gobind singh. i do not think that showing off skin to maharaji is a good thing but this is my opinion and i am NOT enforcing it on anyone. Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Gurfateh I would have to agree with Truesingh Bhaji, I don't believe anyone who wears makeup or whatever cannot be a Sikh, this is not what I meant, I just don't believe it's necessary, or relevant to any aspect of Sikhi. Gurfateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shere khalsa da Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 :? wot a stupid discussion :? its common sense, u gotta use your head aswell, i mean uno to say sumthin stupid like that, im offended, sikhi is pure, so wot if sum1 said its wrong to show abit of leg or tummy or wotever, sikhi dosent condone the things the taliban did and never will, wot a stupid toipic to bring up :bling: :bling: :down: :? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Within all faiths exist "kattarpanthis" (extremists/fanatics who wish to enforce their narrow-minded, bigotted, and most often hippocritical views on others). Sikhs are not immune to such influences....although many would like to think that all Sikhs are the farishtey of Kalyug. Considering the image of Sikhs today as propagated by the media regarding certain individuals who have committed by what can only be termed "extremist acts", it is not surprising that many draw parallels between Sikhs and Taliban. Media will always amplify everything regardless of how "unfair" a situation may be. Sadly these kattarpanthis are the ones who seem to make the most noise, but thankfully, they are always in the minority. It would be illogical if they were considered as being representative of a faith as a whole. Educating people and removing ignorance is one method to avoid the populace drawing such parallels and allows people to make a distinction between the faithful and the twisted... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Narsingha, Harsh words but Truee We should spread the pyar of sikhi not tell others what to do but spread the pyar of sikhi and knowledge to them. Nobody can force their beleifs on another. But these people in minority are doing so. They are protaying very negative image of sikhs worldwide. But having said that I dont think you are doing any good either. I think you could have said the above post softly. One advantage of playin with words is the meanin could mean the same but one wording can sound nicer and in softer tune than another. Whats the point of disunity or using harsh words??? Why cant we all get along?? I m sure if gurooo gobind singh ji maharaj were to come in this earth to give darshan to his sikhs?? He wouldnt be much happy with all of us.. Just think about it....Watch all their khalsa having yudh within themselves.. He would fill up an bucket cryin in tears... Gurooo wants pyaaar... :pray: :bow: You must love one another and live in peace because you can die the next moment. What you goin to do with the frustration/anger??? Would that go into next world??? So please love one another and follow "Eho tarii vaarii aa gobind millan di" (Guroo Arjan Dev Ji maharaj) So Narsingha, Please spread pyaar.. because remember true khalsa heart should be soooooooooooooooooo nirmal and komal that it looks like soft flowin river of love...floating smoothly... Also spread the knowledge too.. I know you got some hidden knowledge inside you. which you can enlighten us with....for example- I asked you three times about nalianka avtar in sikh martial arts section.. no respond.. i know you have information about it. why not share your knowledge with other fellow sikhs??? :cry: :cry: Das daie please 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 I'm gettin the feeling not many ppl like what I have to say here.... Thas alrite, i'm used to it... The reason I started this discussion up is to show ppl how restricted we are becoming. I'm gonna bluntly say it out... The majority of the people here have been basically condemning wearing make up and showing some skin... and I know that the retaliation is going to be it's irrelevant or thats not exactly what I meant... but hello read ur posts My point is to say to you all, Stop It... stop condemning these actions, it's not your rite... If ppl r screwing themselves over what's it to u, God will judge them at the end of the day, why r u wasting your time saying negative stuff... You're open to your opinion yes, but to a certain extent, if u state ur opinion once thats fine, but don't keep leaving posts saying that those ppl rn't into sikhi or that their going to fall into kaam or whatever else.... God only knows what's in store for everyone... and wasn't it Neo Ji who said that you don't decided when to take amrit, but He decides it for you... So then what's the problem, perhaps they have to go through some more deeds before getting the chance to become amritdhari... Chill everyone, jus chill... I"m just an observer here, and the way I see sikhism going, there's a good chance that it could become like the taliban regime... and I don't want that to happen, cuz I've said it before, sikhism is a beautiful religion we have to maintain it's beauty... otherwise who knows what will happen.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukhasingh Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 CAndian Jatti if you wanna look fitter than most punjabi girls are all the better, Sikhs should have the fittest women :yo: , who are into Sikhi not ugly, drib drab sad kuria all these guys saying that beauty is internal etc...load of crock being a singh i want the fittest wife, who is into Sikhi some people say you can't have both but you can, remember not every one is a "khalsa" not everyone is CK, some people are just normal and if a kuri needs a bit of makeup big deal, you singhs have smart pug's tidy beards etc kuri have to do the same( no beards though , or pugs((personal pref) :hearme: O katar panthi tell me these lines when you go to get married !!! Love Sukha Singh :sikhiwink2: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Have love for Dharam, Truth and Akal Purakh, and you're less likely to go wrong. An added benefit is that this will lead to a reduction in the amount of hugging that occurs these days amongst Sikhs (...hugging..yuck!!!!!) Sikhi is between you and Akaal Purakh, and no one has the right to interfer with this relationship. Akaal Purakh does not judge us until we are dead, so what right do we have to judge others while we are alive? (NB: We are all allowed to have opinions and express them, but not enforce them on others. The strength of an opinion depends on the knowledge, wisdom, truth and logic behind it) *goes back to planning tonight's dinner* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Canadian jatti, I was about to write the samething which Narsingha has written. Please, feel free to express your views if you have anything to say but don't stop others or judge them by saying that they are condemning somoene. Also, we all need to be aware of this that this topic is not a part of our desi chit-chat but related to sikhism and in that case we need to make sure that we back up our claims with appropriate evidences... This is how debate runs... We are all allowed to have opinions and express them, but not enforce them on others. The strength of an opinion depends on the knowledge, wisdom, truth and logic behind it) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 My bad, I'm doing what I said not to do, whoops... But I just don't get it... Mate, let's be honest here.... One wants to have an attractive wife don't they, that knows the balance between everyday life and sikhism... I just don't like the hypocrisy when one says that they like simple gursikh girls, but when it comes to marriage they want to have the skinniest, big eyed beauty around.... face it everyone wants an attractive spouse.... Then why are we going around saying that simplicity is beautiful, the way you are is beautiful... it's not tru, we are constantly trying to appear better in front of ppl whether it be by change of clothes, keeping your dastaar neat, by dieting (which is really really really) bad and by wearing make up... We should face it... and discuss it as a group... not jus pass rules and regulations... times are changing and if one wants to see sikhism stand as a religion in the future, we have to change as ppl with it... it means that we have to bring the SGGS into the 21st century... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 The problem lies in the fact that some individuals wish to paint everyone with the same brush, and are looking to create some "Brave New World" where everyone looks and acts the same. They refuse to accept everyones perception of Sikhi, Dharam, beauty, logic etc etc is different. It scares them perhaps to know that they may have to use their own brain and actually stand up for their own beliefs as individuals. Inevitably, this will give rise to conflict. ** edited ** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ moderator note: let's stick to topic here. We have mainstream sikhs thread already going where comparision and opinions are welcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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