GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 UDASIS, IS'NT THAT THE RELIGION STARTED OF BY DHUN GURU NANAK DEV JI'S BROTHER? out of jelousy of not being appointed next guru? and was'nt it declared tanhai tankya back then??? why do these brit "nihungs" say its part of sikhi when SIKHI DE GURU JI DHUN GURU NANAK DEV JI, said they were'nt part of sikhi 500 yrs ago?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 was it not an udasi that guru arjun went to finish writing sukhmani sahib. I might be completly wrong. im not sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 It wasnt guroo nanak dev ji brother but his son.. baba sri chand maharaj ji... Udahisis are very spirtual people. They do recitation of sggs sahib ji constantly day and night.. throughout..24/7. Someone with more knowledge can enlighten all of us here with more info about them... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 veer n30 what i'm gion to say is not desrespectfull to u so plz dont' take it wrong :$ but i dont' think baba sir chaand wuz given rite to start a seperate religion udasis, they can recite maharaj all they want, as do the rss but that does'nt make them sikhs i'm pretty sure that they where outcasted by dhun guru nanak dev ji maharaj 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 veer n30 what i'm gion to say is not desrespectfull to u so plz dont' take it wrong :$ but i dont' think baba sir chaand wuz given rite to start a seperate religion udasis, they can recite maharaj all they want, as do the rss but that does'nt make them sikhs i'm pretty sure that they where outcasted by dhun guru nanak dev ji maharaj thats not separate relegion.. but it exist within sikhism.. check out www.sarbloh.info .. If truth is soo hard to digest then thats up to you veer. You can ignore truth all your life but truth remains same. Sri baba chand was quite enlightned himself...Yes off course...there might be few cases where he didnt follow guroo ji hakum but that was in early childhood.. he became quite enlightned later on. This proves udhasis are sikhs http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20021210/main7.htm SGPC that you trust ...they admitted themselves... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 i do not trust the sgcp, and theres no way in hell that i would trust sarbloh.com. as it directly contradicts the bhudda dal website,, which i will try hard to re-allocate sarbloh.com = indian agent.com tha's the truth, i found that really ez to digest a sikh is one who belives in everythign about sikhi wihtout doubt, and udahsis are not that, sorry veer ji 2 be taken with a grain of salt ( not sure of context) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 a sikh is one who belives in everythign about sikhi wihtout doubt, and udahsis are not that, sorry veer ji in sikhi we need to aquire knowledge. With my newly aquired knowledge i wish to give a bit of info. It not much to do with Udasis, Sorry for the side tract. "To seek means to acquire knowledge. The second part of spiritual development is Gian Khand. The individual, who in its true form is Atma (particle of Parmatma, the highest God) moves towards Va-eh Guru by feeding on Gian (knowledge)." What do you think of this gabroo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 i think well of it! but what do u think of udhaiss? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 just to note out, that extract was taken from sarbloh.info What i am trying to say is that knowledge is and should be aquired. We must remain openminded and then decide on what i true or false. We shouldn't make rash descision. I hope that my veer can understand this. As far as udasis are concerned, my knowledge is limited. But i am sure that there are bad apples in all sects. So not all udasis are true udasis. I have never met an udasis, or every been intrigued to read about them. But i will do some reading on the topic and let you know my personal opinion. fateh ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 i've started to read about the udasis, i've not read much but found this extract. It is a historical fact that all the Gurus loved and respected Baba Siri Chand ji. Guru Amar Das ji gave his eldest son, Baba Mohan ji to serve Baba Siri Chand ji. Guru Hargobind Sahib offered his son, Baba Gurditta, the father of Guru Harkrishan ji (7th Guru) to be Baba Siri Chand ji's devotee and successor. Baba Siri Chand ji gave the name "Amritsar" that is used today to the city that had been called Ramdaspur. And the place where Guru Arjan Dev ji waited daily for his meetings with Baba Siri Chand ji and his resting place are still marked by the historical sites of Thamb Sahib and Manji Sahib at the village of Barath. Babaji also gave water from his baoli (spring) for the Sarovar (sacred pool) at Tarn Taran. When Guru Arjan Devji recited the first 16 astpadis (stanzas) of his Sukhmani Sahib (Hymns of Peace) for Baba Siri Chand ji, Babaji appreciated them so much that he said there should be more. Guru Arjan Devji then requested Baba Siri Chand to give the opening lines of the 17th astpadi. So Baba Siri Chand, following his father Guru Nanak Dev ji's example, recited "Aad Sach, Jugaad Sach, Hai bhi Sach, Nanak Josi bhi Sach..." True in the beginning, Eternally True, God is True now and will always be True This line appears as given by Babaji in Guru Granth Sahib ji and is recited as bani today. On reading this extract i began to wonder. These are my trail of thoughts. If we are to ask what is sikhism, do we look at the sikhs of today or look at their gurus. Im sure that most people will (want to) look at what the gurus did to find out about true sikhi. Like wise, if we were to look at islam today, will we judge it by looking at the muslims of today. And if we to look at hinduism, .... to diverse. I answer gabroo question's in the same manner. I am not looking at what the udasis are of today, but more to the fact of who they were and what they should be, (i am in no position to tell people about the current day udasis as i still have little to none knowlegde regarding them and have not ever met a person who is an udasis .) From the extract above, if the gurus can hand over their sons to an udasis, then i cannot see anything wrong with their Baba ji, as for he did help guru ji finish of sukhmani sahib. fateh ji. I hope i have answered your question gabroo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Gurfateh I thought I'd try to add a little more about the Udasis beyond what is provided on sarbloh. In all the frescoes I have seen in Udasis Akharae, Baba Sri Chander is sat to the left or right of Guru Nanak Dev who is paramount. Udasis also commonly recite Baba Sri Chander ji's ode to Guru Nanak Dev. One important point to bear in mind is that, when the Gurdwara Reform bill was passed, it provided a direct threat to all samprada deras/akharas/ashrams, with their individualistic practices. Instead, there was a shift to an imposed orthodoxy in philosophy and practice created by the SGPC along the lines of the Tat Khalsa ideology. The Udasis had inherited a lot of land and ashrams from the maharajas. The SGPC were keen to get hold of the land and institutions. After court cases between Udasis and SGPC, it was decided that it was possible to have SGGS in the instution and not be a Gurdwara (and hence avoid having to be taken over by the SGPC), as long as Guru Granth Sahib wasn't the main focus of the building (can someone add more here?). The immediate reaction to this was two fold. A number of sub-groups distanced themselves from Sikhi, and claimed they were hindu. Others maintained their Sikh identity. Sulakhan Singh has produced good research on this area, and references modern texts written by Udasis that show this clash of identity in response to the changes of the 19/20th century. I'll try to get these latter on. It's interesting to note that the bakshish groups (and from my experience those started by Sangat Sahib) are closer to Sikhi than those from the four Adi-udasis, but that could be crap as it's merely what I've seen! For example, the three key akharas in Amritsar; Akhara Sangalwara, Akhara Brahm Boota and Akhara Bala Nand are all Sangat Sahib and all are very close to Darbar sahib. Equally the identity among grassroot Udasis seems to vary greatly. Last week I met an amritdhari Udasi mahant, who wore the 5 ks along with the peach bana. His sadhana was very much Udasi, his mindset was very much khalsa. You will find Udasis in all corners of India. This is due to there is some basic information at www.babasrichand.org 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Note...Udhasi section on www.sarbloh.info will be updated soon to include more on the ideology and maryada of the Udhasi Sampardah (with lots of new pics) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukhasingh Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Read this http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/sikhism/sanatan.html Then http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/sikhism/udas.html Then http://www.sikhcybermuseum.org/People/Udasis.htm Then what the SGPC say Udasis are Sikhs, says SGPC chief http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20021210/main7.htm It's amzing just a search in google comes out with :bling: :sikhiwink2: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Don't disrespect Baba Sri Chand Ji Maharaj or the Udasi.Baba Sri Chand wasn't jealous of anyone or anything. When he knew he wasn't to be the next Guru, he took the news very well.And don't believe the false story of Guru Nanak Dev Ji throwing a pot into a mudhole and testing to see who would get it.That's false propaganda :x Baba Sri Chand loved and respected his beloved father.And Guru Nanak Dev Ji wasn't in any way against him or his way of life.There's too much falsehood out there about Sikhi :x 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Whosoever slanders God's saints, and in this case Baba Shri Chand, shall suffer terrible punishement in this world and in the next. :evil: :twisted: :evil: :evil: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted August 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 lalleshevari,sshhh plz look at ur beloved hindustani sites, they diss mahapurkhs all over the place and all i'm doin is pointing out a fact that ur sites the only site that recognizes udasis as sikhs, CAUSE THEY AINT! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 How come then SGPC has recognise them as Sikhs? How come the Anandpur resolution recognise them as Sikhs? Regarding HIndustan.... I like SOuth Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh,BHutan, Nepal..) but I hate BJP RSS and VHP! :evil: If there is to be a Khalistan then it should stretch from Lahore to Patna Sahib, from Anandpur Sahib to Hazur Sahib: why be satisfied with tiny polluted Panjab when we could get much much more! Let Brahmin arrogance be humiliated! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7naam Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 WJKK WJKF Don't disrespect Baba Sri Chand Ji Maharaj or the Udasi.Baba Sri Chand wasn't jealous of anyone or anything. When he knew he wasn't to be the next Guru, he took the news very well.And don't believe the false story of Guru Nanak Dev Ji throwing a pot into a mudhole and testing to see who would get it.That's false propaganda :x Baba Sri Chand loved and respected his beloved father.And Guru Nanak Dev Ji wasn't in any way against him or his way of life.There's too much falsehood out there about Sikhi :x Phaji in reference to what you have wrote, I have come across this story a number of time (people verbally telling the story), the one about the pot and you have mentioned that this did not take place. I am intregued as to where you have got this information from as it contradicts a number of stories that I have heard. I am not stating that what you have said is incorrect or anything like that, I would just like to find out what really happened as there are 2 stories that are told. lalleshevari,sshhh plz look at ur beloved hindustani sites, they diss mahapurkhs all over the place and all i'm doin is pointing out a fact that ur sites the only site that recognizes udasis as sikhs, CAUSE THEY AINT! Gabroo Phaji, I am again intregued as to why you don't believe that Udhasis's are from Sikhi. Can you please provide some references which made you reach this conclusion. Thank you WJKK WJKF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted August 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 yah fo sure 7naam gimme a bit hto and lalshervarai, when a tree starts it starts of as a single stick then it grows into a huge one with branches and a trunk as thick as a car, so khalistan wil be expanding 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Dear 7naam you said: Hari wrote: Phaji in reference to what you have wrote, I have come across this story a number of time (people verbally telling the story), the one about the pot and you have mentioned that this did not take place. I am intregued as to where you have got this information from as it contradicts a number of stories that I have heard. I am not stating that what you have said is incorrect or anything like that, I would just like to find out what really happened as there are 2 stories that are told. The story about the pot and the mudhole never happened.It's made up, by people who are anti-Udasi for some reason.There are people (Jathas) who have a problem with the existence of Udasi Panth. :roll: I was told by an Amritdhari full Bana wearing Khalsa Ji that it is a totally FALSE story.Both Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Baba Sri Chand Ji loved and respected each other mutually.Since Baba Sri Chand wasn't going to marry, Guru Nanak Dev Ji told Baba Sri Chand to make sure Lakhmi Das Ji would get married and have a family.And he did make sure. I believe the latest from Guru Nanak Dev's lineage is Baba Sarbjot Singh.If I'm wrong please correct me. Before passing away, Guru Nanak Dev blessed Baba Sri Chand Ji.Baba Sri Chand was blessed by Guru Nanak Dev with great miraculous powers.During his very long life (some say 130 years, some 150!!) he was respected by all the Guru. Did you know that Baba Sri Chand Ji composed a love filled poem to his Beloved Father?Here is Baba Sri Chand Ji's Aartaa to his father, Guru Nanak Dev: "Let us sing the praises of Nanak, King of kings of both worlds The whole world is His temple, congregations sing sweet songs in His praise Millions of goddesses kindle holy lights in His honor All the gods sing psalms of His praises All wash His lotus feet The Sun and moon illuminate Him with their radiance He is garlanded with mountains of flowers The True Master, the fountain of Light is merciful to the poor The king of the winds fans Him while saints and sages meditate on His holiness The whole universe vibrates with His celestial song The bells ring out - Onkar Continuously illuminating the heavens He is one with God whose name is Truth In Nanak saints find their support Siri Chand, Nanak's son, declares Nanak is unattainable, unfathomable, unshakeable and pure Whoever sings Emperor Nanak's praises resides in heaven and achieves complete salvation Oh kind master: give protection to those who seek your shelter. Oh Nanak: You are the savior we are just your children" - Baba Sri Chand Above taken from http://www.babasirichand.org/babasirichand/aarta.shtml So there you see Baba Sri Chand Ji's love for his father.What praise! Rooh khush hundee!It is said that he composed this poem after he merged with Vahiguru and saw the whole of the universal creation bow in reverence to Guru Nanak Sacche Patshah.So tell me, do you think such a Vahiguru-enlightened soul would have any jealousy or disrespect in him? :?: Check out: http://www.babasirichand.org/babasirichand/ What's so shocking is what so called "Sikh" have made him out to be.SUCH A SHAME You can hear Baba Sri Chand's Aarta to Guru Nanak Dev aswell as reading it in Panjabi and English.Sat Sri Akal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Just one more thing; Did you know that both Sacche Patshah Guru Amar Das Ji and Guru Har Gobind Ji gave their eldest sons to Baba Sri Chand Ji? Baba Mohan Ji was Guru Amar Das's eldest son, and Baba Gurditta Ji was Guru Har Gobind's eldest son.Why would they give their eldest son's away to someone who's falsely accused of jealousy??Think about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7naam Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 WJKK WJKF, Thanks for the info Hari Phaji, I have come across most of that in bits and pieces before. Phaji I get the impression you know a fair bit on this topic and so would like to ask if you know anything about Dera Baba Nanak that is in the village of Gurdaspur by the India - Pakistan boarder. The Baba Ji there at the moment are baba Balbir Singh Bedi Ji and they are currently doing sewa of looking after Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Chaula. Just wondering if you have any info on this. WJKK WJKF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Just to restate that for Gabroo Baba Gurditta (whom Baba Sri Chander gave his topi to as a sign of passing on leadership of Udasi samparda) was given to Baba Sri Chander by his father Guru Hargobind Sahib (nb - the topi still exists in Kiratpur) Baba Gurditta was also the father of Guru Har Rai. Baba Kirpal who fought along side Guru Gobind Singh ji and killed Hayat Khan with his club, as narrated in Bachitar Natak. Did the Gurus reject the Udasis? Doesn't seem like it to me. Dera Baba Nanak was an important centre for the Udasin along with Nanak Matta among others. Many of the Matre written by prominent Udasin (Adi-Udasi and Bakhshish) pay homage to Guru Nanak. The frescoes that depict both Baba Sri Chand and Guru ji, always have Guru Nanak sat in the prominent position with Baba Sri Chander underneath. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted August 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 as u guys soo nicely say i need a "link" to back that up i dont' think the guru sahibs would aprove of sects forming within the sikh panth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Udasis are an order (sampradaya) not a sect (jatha) :twisted: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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