Veggeterainism

[Genie Singh]

In the animal jungle we have creatures who are meat eaters Carnivore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore), eat everything Omnivore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnivore) and Eat plants Herbivore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore)

Now when we look at saliva, stomach acid and teeth set of all creatures we can decide which one they fit into. Humans can not eat meat naturally if you put a goat and an apple in front of a todler, the todler will play with the goat probably name it and eat the apple. The teeth set of a human are not strong enough to bite through flesh raw, or saliva that of a tigers or stomach acid to digest it. If humans were to eat animals raw they will catch several diseases and die we have some history of attempts and deaths.

Now the cellular structure of plants and animals are different that Herbivores have the capacity to digest plants, however humans were clever to invent food technology we cook the meat of creatures until the cell structures are slightly damaged that we can consume the animal. Even with the human body at certain point such as starvation we end up consuming our own fat and muscle fibres a bit like how we consume other animals.

We brought various animals into our food technology plot bread them, and eat them. While we can't eat every animal due to dangers such as some fish so people learnt the poisonous parts cut away eat it. Food technology has helped us but has brought us problems from refining certain things. We learn from the human organs such as the appendix humans once used to eat grass. When we look at the pimate family we find the trend in apes who eat fruits and veg. The problem we are facing today is to do with certain geographical locations which have low sunlight intensity such as the uk which was in an ice age when it melted people migrated, so due to that milk from cows are not strong enough, crops and vegetations are low malnourished. Other places which is too hot were we face deserts we find a lack of crops, so people in desperation turned to poultry. Now today some are debating that the origin of various illnesses is to do with meat consumption which is against some of our function. Even carnivores seek fibre from certain plants themselves tigers have to eat grass for fibre.

The problems we are facing with poultry industry is we have resulted in producing diseases such as foot and mouth, mad cow disease, bird flu, swine flu, e-coli we created problems with mercury dumping into fish supplies and effected the food web and food chain. We saw a rise in animal cruelty and other issues to the eco system. Also through meat eating humans wiped out the dodo bird, which we replaced with chickens (Gallus gallus domesticus) which came from China approx 6000BC and we bread. Now some philosophers argue that the unnatural meat eating has caused various problems into the human psychology and abnormal violence which some blame has raised violence. It has been quite difficult for people to consume animals slaughtered before themselves. However so meat eating has been found to be addictive due to various chemicals ingested which have a drug like effect.

[SURYADEV]

you cannot say meat causes disease outright. There illnesses caused by veggie or plant foods. Due to its handling/growing processes.

What causes illness is the industrial foods we eat for convenience. Those Devoid of fibre, nutrients, enzymes, phytochemicals. In the west even veggies or vegans suffer from ill health, all due to the unnatural, over processed shyte we down our mouths. Then we counteract all the negatives of that by taking medication etc which in turn has their own sides.

In modern society, the industrial foods we eat whether plants, grains or meat are pumped full of chemicals that cause us harm. Its just that because the harm it causes isn't overt, or dramatic or the effects take place over years people just don't see the link.

DM recently had an article about a 17yr old girl who ate nothing but McChicken Nuggets......since she was a toddler! She was apparantly fine for all these years. But now was taken to hospital when she fell ill with breathing difficulties.

Edited February 3, 2012 by SURYADEV

[kdsingh80]

When we look at the pimate family we find the trend in apes who eat fruits and veg.

The closest cousin of Humans ,Chimpanzee hunt and eat meat

Now today some are debating that the origin of various illnesses is to do with meat consumption which is against some of our function. Even carnivores seek fibre from certain plants themselves tigers have to eat grass for fibre.

Apart from Brahmins jains some Budhists and few other castes of Hindu's almost the entire world ate non veg food ,yet there is no evidence that these people were healthier or even stronger ,infact Indians are weakest in Athletic sports and more prone to various diseases

Also through meat eating humans wiped out the dodo bird, which we replaced with chickens (Gallus gallus domesticus) which came from

So what, so many species were gone extinct ,some by natural causes some by humans.Infact humans cutting down tree's and making farmlands is the biggest destroyer of eco system.so many carnivores were hunted down and made extinct by humans because they were dangerous to humans

Now some philosophers argue that the unnatural meat eating has caused various problems into the human psychology and abnormal violence which some blame has raised violence. It has been quite difficult for people to consume animals slaughtered before themselves.

the opposite can also be said that almost all vegetarian communitties became coward and they were unable to defend themselves.Jains were never known as warriors, Budhists and hindu's lost massively against muslims .also most of developed countries were meat eaters and most of them are now peaceful .Vegetarianism is recent phenomina in most of them

[SURYADEV]

As a Greek friend of mine would say:

"Vegetarianism is a luxury that only the rich can afford!"

Just ponder that for a while. Is sikhi out of reach for the poor man on edge of society because he cannot afford to buy high carb veggie foods?

In a similar vein I joke with my Namdhari friend that Kookaism is only for the wealthy, ie. only those who can afford to continously buy new bright white clothes and Daz washing powder in bulk! lol

[kdsingh80]

As a Greek friend of mine would say:

"Vegetarianism is a luxury that only the rich can afford!"

Just ponder that for a while. Is sikhi out of reach for the poor man on edge of society because he cannot afford to buy high carb veggie foods?

In a similar vein I joke with my Namdhari friend that Kookaism is only for the wealthy, ie. only those who can afford to continously buy new bright white clothes and Daz washing powder in bulk! lol

Your friend is right, a poor man just eat for survival ,that's why in coastal area you will hardly find any veggies because they all survive on seafood.Also lot of low income veggies in India just eat so much crappy food that it is no wonder that so many Indians are quite weak

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

If human beings lived in the way they were ordained to live in, then they would not need to eat meat. In Satyug when Humans lived normally, a man who had done a wrongdoing affected the whole of humanity and animal nature, all of organic life. (In treta it became city and dwapar the family and in kalyug a man reaps himself what he sows). What this story represents is that organic life on Earth can be considered a single organism or a single animal. And Man progressively acting in a more unnatural manner with regard to the organism he is part of or in other words becoming more selfish. If organic life on Earth is an Organism it is made up of a body of Vegatative materials in this body there is animal passions or emotions typified by all animals then there is the Organism's mind, typified by Human Beings. Human Beings contain vegetative and animal, animal contains vegetative. The point of all this is that by killing animals for food or killing vegetables for food, is in effect the equivalent in the Human body of one part eating another within the same Human body. So you have to eat yourself to live. Because to kill something else to survive yourself is a very big paap, people in Satjug began to create purificatory rites through which Humans could be cleansed of this sin. These purificatory rites were Bhagti to God, through this Bhagti they were able to kill vegetables to survive in a sacred way with a pure innocent Bhagti, which cleansed them of this sin of killing part of the Organism or animal all on Earth are part of. As animals like sheep and chickens are higher than vegetables (higher meaning closer to God) In Satjug to kill an animal for food would require more purificatory rites or more Bhagti to get forgiveness. So non one killed animals for food in those times. Because as they were more aware of unity they did not want more paap on their heads.

Meat eating come into vogue when people got nasha of Maya and forgot about purificatory rites and focused on 'enjoying' life. So eating just became about nutrition and physical health so as to get maximum 'enjoyments' from life.

[chatanga1]

Meat eating come into vogue when people got nasha of Maya and forgot about purificatory rites and focused on 'enjoying' life.

quite riduculous.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

I don't think it ridiculous. In Satjug people ate roots and fruits from the trees, they lived in a natural, less artificial way. As the distractions of modern civilization were not present, they were not subjected, as much as later Yuga's, to the influences of Maya. Which is why it is called SATjug - the aeon of truth - because maya's influence was less at that time. As maya increased, the focus shifted towards the needs of the physical body. Because maya eats the energy of Human beings, their diet had to become stronger to give them the strength to do their work. So as Maya increases so does the need of the physical body for stronger foods like meat. So in kaljug you need to eat a lot of meat to have good strength to do work.

[Genie Singh]

As a Greek friend of mine would say:

"Vegetarianism is a luxury that only the rich can afford!"

Just ponder that for a while. Is sikhi out of reach for the poor man on edge of society because he cannot afford to buy high carb veggie foods?

In a similar vein I joke with my Namdhari friend that Kookaism is only for the wealthy, ie. only those who can afford to continously buy new bright white clothes and Daz washing powder in bulk! lol

Well you are looking at economy if you go to India it is cheaper to be veggeterian then eat meat, only the rich can afford meat. Why? Because when something sells as with demand it reduces in cost, veg and milk sell more then meat does the high majority are vegetarian.

Loads of chinese who are buddhists are veggeterian, we took an army to war fall of meat eaters and lost to the chinese. With any sports it's all about practice and training. In the west most people eat meat so meat is cheap, however in the west we do not face economic problems everyone can afford vegetterian food, alcohol is kind of cheap doesn't mean we avoid juice and drink a can of beer saying sikhi is for everyone.

Edited February 6, 2012 by JatherdarSahib

[Genie Singh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3ied_AD4iE

http://vegan.sheknow...010/11/29/1433/

http://www.happycow....egetarians.html

Amitabh Bachan is 60+ he is veggeterian. Check out this list as well.. http://en.wikipedia...._of_vegetarians

Some Chimpanzees eat maggots eating magots can create many illnesses as well, the thing with any animal is survival if we deprive it of the natural food stock it will switch to alternative food supplies even things which are bad for it. We will find examples such as muslims who can't eat pork are allowed if nothing else is available it is better to survive then die. Meat is not a part of our natural diet as is the case for chimpanzees.

Edited February 6, 2012 by JatherdarSahib

[Genie Singh]

you cannot say meat causes disease outright. There illnesses caused by veggie or plant foods. Due to its handling/growing processes.

What causes illness is the industrial foods we eat for convenience. Those Devoid of fibre, nutrients, enzymes, phytochemicals. In the west even veggies or vegans suffer from ill health, all due to the unnatural, over processed shyte we down our mouths. Then we counteract all the negatives of that by taking medication etc which in turn has their own sides.

In modern society, the industrial foods we eat whether plants, grains or meat are pumped full of chemicals that cause us harm. Its just that because the harm it causes isn't overt, or dramatic or the effects take place over years people just don't see the link.

DM recently had an article about a 17yr old girl who ate nothing but McChicken Nuggets......since she was a toddler! She was apparantly fine for all these years. But now was taken to hospital when she fell ill with breathing difficulties.

You just contradicted yourself with the last example why did she suffer breathing problems? MCDonalds !

[kdsingh80]

Well you are looking at economy if you go to India it is cheaper to be veggeterian then eat meat, only the rich can afford meat. Why?

Not true. Buffalo meat and no so clean Pork was always cheap.As most of urban India is of high caste ,they shun both this meat so Buffalo meat is available in muslims ghetto's ,while pork is available in mostly in Lower caste area

Loads of chinese who are buddhists are veggeterian, we took an army to war fall of meat eaters and lost to the chinese

Vegetarianism in China is practiced by tiny minority

With any sports it's all about practice and training

In sports the 1st is genetics,2nd is Diet and 3rd is practice and training.

Some Chimpanzees eat maggots eating magots can create many illnesses as well, the thing with any animal is survival if we deprive it of the natural food stock it will switch to alternative food supplies even things which are bad for it. We will find examples such as muslims who can't eat pork are allowed if nothing else is available it is better to survive then die. Meat is not a part of our natural diet as is the case for chimpanzees.

The Predatory Behavior and Ecology of Wild Chimpanzees

http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

[Genie Singh]

Chimpanzees eat monkeys. Should we eat monkeys? I refute being related to monkeys and chimpanzees. There are some similar characteristics due to environment and habitat but that is not the case. Otherwise should we eat monkeys?

http://www.beyondveg...p-anat-2a.shtml

http://www.beyondveg...terview1e.shtml

Loads of other primates eat insects, we are well known to conteract problems.

With beef and pork you find social issues for why they don't sell with islam it says your not supposed to eat an animal you use such as a horse and camel. However with agriculture in india cows are used for that, the agriculture was limited in the desert of arabia.

Chickens came into eating 6000years ago, so the main food groups we would have to consider is fish and goats, lamb, sheep i.e. mutton.

How many chimpanzees eat mutton, how many apes eat mutton? A better food group then to consider would be fish? How many primates eat fish?

Various scientific studies carried out show a variation of different descents of primates throughout various human groups so some changes in the diet would be assumed.

Edited February 7, 2012 by JatherdarSahib

[chatanga1]

Loads of chinese who are buddhists are veggeterian, we took an army to war fall of meat eaters and lost to the chinese.

actually the chinese army is officially God-less, so even if there were any practising chinese buddhists, they would not be known. Any Chinese soldier or even politican, policeman or teacher, cannot be a member of a religion. They would be sacked immediately or even jailed, or sent on a Chinese Peoples Revolution programme.

Buddhists are vegetarians, but dont try and make wrong statements.

[SURYADEV]

then again not all buddists are veggies. some/many do eat meat to some extent.

Jathedarji I'm having a blonde day today, must be the cold getting to me. Can you explain how did I contradict myself?

[kdsingh80]

Chimpanzees eat monkeys. Should we eat monkeys? I refute being related to monkeys and chimpanzees. There are some similar characteristics due to environment and habitat but that is not the case. Otherwise should we eat monkeys?

http://www.beyondveg...p-anat-2a.shtml

http://www.beyondveg...terview1e.shtml

Loads of other primates eat insects, we are well known to conteract problems.

There are humans who eat monkeys ,there are humans who eat insects it is all the matter of availability of food.No chimpanzee eat wheat ,rice or milk yet we humans do

[Genie Singh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dljUnSKt7Ac

[SURYADEV]

Jathedar , is animal cruelty any different from the negative aspects of veggie farmming?

Eg the fertilisers, pesticides, growth drugs injected into plants foods (ie exploding melons in china/india), hormone useage in agriculture(dipping fruits into waxy-like substance to give it a gleaming shine), soil erosion due to intensive farming - just look at parts of the world turniing into desert because of this, hell even farmers getting diseased due to carelessness or ignorance of health and safety.

veggies Bringing up animal crulety vids, reports etc as a trump card just doesn't work.

[chatanga1]

Jatherdar Sahib, may be there was a reason why our Guru told us, only fools argue over flesh.

The video you have shown shows the lack of compassion in commercial farming, where everything is seen as money or not money. Sikhs are just as bad, with their lettting male buffaloes loose on the streets.

I am not vegetarian, but 1 am a supporter of compassion in farming, and that not appies only to animals reared for food, but also to insects and nature that are harmed by commercial farming thorugh the use of pesticides etc..

[Genie Singh]

Can someone verify the stuff on this website or debate it? http://www.sikhs.org/meat_au.htm

[Genie Singh]

I personally think guru sahib said only fools argue due to the nature of how pandits acted towards muslims who used to eat meat and muslims who acted against hindus who didn't and considered them to be inferior. Guru sahib in my opinon is not saying either veggeterianism is obivous or eating meat is... but the deeper meaning is tolerance, tolerance for those who eat meat and those who don't eat meat. Bhagati redeems either way, but Guru sahib tolerated everyone even the greatest of sinners who he redeemed. But in terms of guru rehat mayarda it would terrible if baba nand singh was right and terrible if the nihangs were right for the maryada for not sharing. We all agree to tolerate whoever does paap as we are paapis ourselves to do the nindya of someone who eats meat or who doesn't and to forget the humanity of the person. But Guru sahib path is as such we still look to find the truth inside of it if due to a lack of understanding in suraj prakash granth we don't know then we still to find out.

I would say the main thing with animal cruelty is we can see it more visibly and even the jeev and atma has made so much bhagati to get a higher janam we understand from rocks and minerals the jeev gets to the form of a plant. Guru Hargobind Sahib didn't want to step on flowers and damage jeevs. When we see animals with 5 indras like us having eyes, ears and nose we kill them. Could we ever kill our dog or cat. Some eat dogs tongues could we ever. Chicken farming came in 6000years ago we wipped out the dodo bird, cows were used for farming why bother eating them, then with goats and fish we look into it's meat but people used to drink goats milk. Fish we don't know about catching them gurbani says those who have soora fish and bhang will go to hell.

[SURYADEV]

What Chatanga said. its not about what you eat its how you go about obtaining that foodstuff.

Biologically/evolutionary wise, we eat whats available to us in our environment. Its all about surviving long enough to replicate/reproduce. If you live in extreme environs as many cultures do (deserts, arctic, jungles even you must eat what nature gives you at that place and time.

There a the mongal nomads who only eat 90% yaks milk and meat beacuase thats all they have. In their brief summers they may get some greens for a short time to supplament their diet. In jungles of SE Asia the tribes can only get their protein source from insects and reptiles. In Arctic regions those guys eat predominantly fat-based diet. In the one of the most malnourished parts of the world they eat articifial foods that contain minimal nutrients but have enough macro-nutrients to ward off hunger. Thats in the Amercia.

The poor guys eating grubs, animals and naturally grown plant foods have much better health than Europeans/Americans.

[chatanga1]

but the deeper meaning is tolerance, tolerance for those who eat meat and those who don't eat meat.

That is the way to be if you want any kind of unity in the Panth. There are some things that Sikhs do that i think are weird, or summat, but the key is tolerance. One of the first things my Vidiya Guru taught me.

These days young Sikhs are just told this is right, this is wrong, then when they exposed to something new, they think this is against Gurmat.

[kdsingh80]

^{The video you have shown shows the lack of compassion in commercial farming, where everything is seen as money or not money. Sikhs are just as bad, with their lettting male buffaloes loose on the streets.}

^{I disagree that if Sikhs let their male buffaloes or old cows loose on street then they are bad.It is plain economics nothing else.In today's overpopulated world their is no place for animals which are of no use to humans.Buffalo milk is 32-40 rupees per litre in retail market of India.If sikh farmers will feed their male or old buffaloes then to obtain the profit they have to sell milk at 50 rupees which of course nobody will purchase .So they all get ruined and their diaries will be shut.}

^{Look at thousands of crores of Illegal cow smuggling business from India to mainly bangladesh .The cows are smuggled in most inhumane way to Bangladesh .Who is responsible for this? the so called vegetarians and cow protectors .These people want to drink milk but don't want cows to be slaughtered as a result Farmers,Diary owners sell or even throw their useless cattle as none of them can afford to take care of them.}

^{In today's world anybody believe that we can drink milk or use animal products but killing animals is no no is living in fools paradise .They are just just pleasing their mind while turning their eyes from harsh truth .}

[chatanga1]

Athiests use the same theme as Jathedar Sahib has used to promote their own thinking

ie look at how religions have made people hate and kill each other, there should be a ban on religions blah blah blah...

and post a similiar video like Jathedar Ji has posted, of people killing each other becasue then God will like them.