jvalasingh Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 http://www.manglacharan.com/2012/03/passage-below-is-portion-from-gurpratap.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ कबीर प्रीति इक सिउ कीए आन दुबिधा जाइ ॥ Kabīr parīṯ ik si▫o kī▫e ān ḏubiḏẖā jā▫e. Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart. भावै लांबे केस करु भावै घररि मुडाइ ॥२५॥ Bẖāvai lāʼnbe kes kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā▫e. ||25|| You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25|| SGGS ANG 1365 According to above is kesh even required? ਕਬੀਰ ਹਾਡ ਜਰੇ ਜਿਉ ਲਾਕਰੀ ਕੇਸ ਜਰੇ ਜਿਉ ਘਾਸੁ ॥ कबीर हाड जरे जिउ लाकरी केस जरे जिउ घासु ॥ Kabīr hād jare ji▫o lākrī kes jare ji▫o gẖās. Kabeer, the bones burn like wood, and the hair burns like straw. Edited March 12, 2012 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 My understtanding is that Kesh is only a neccesity for Khalsa amritdhari sikhs. Not for the rest of the wider sikhi conglomerate. whether other keep kesh or not is entirely a personal choice - unless their hukam is to remove hair eg certain sects of sadhus who must shave their head upon being ordained. For a Khalsa the hukam is to keep Kesh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Surya is there any point even being khalsa amritdhari then at all? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) many teach bana is equally as important as bani or more so, but gurbani says: ਵੇਸਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਮਹਾ ਦੁਖਿਆਰੀ ॥੫॥ वेसि न पाईऐ महा दुखिआरी ॥५॥ ves na pā▫ī▫ai mahā ḏukẖi▫ārī. ||5|| God is not found by wearing religious robes; you are utterly miserable! ||5|| Page 1084, Line 9 ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥੧੨॥ नापाक पाकु करि हदूरि हदीसा साबत सूरति दसतार सिरा ॥१२॥ Nāpāk pāk kar haḏūr haḏīsā sābaṯ sūraṯ ḏasṯār sirā. ||12|| Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12|| Guru Arjan Dev ਜਿਹ ਸਿਰਿ ਰਚਿ ਰਚਿ ਬਾਧਤ ਪਾਗ ॥ जिह सिरि रचि रचि बाधत पाग ॥ Jih sir racẖ racẖ bāḏẖaṯ pāg. That head which was once embellished with the finest turban - ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਚੁੰਚ ਸਵਾਰਹਿ ਕਾਗ ॥੧॥ सो सिरु चुंच सवारहि काग ॥१॥ So sir cẖuncẖ savārėh kāg. ||1|| upon that head, the crow now cleans his beak. ||1|| ਇਸੁ ਤਨ ਧਨ ਕੋ ਕਿਆ ਗਰਬਈਆ ॥ इसु तन धन को किआ गरबईआ ॥ Is ṯan ḏẖan ko ki▫ā garab▫ī▫ā. What pride should we take in this body and wealth? राम नामु काहे न द्रिड़्हीआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Rām nām kāhe na ḏariṛ▫ī▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. Why not hold tight to the Lord's Name instead? ||1||Pause|| Edited March 13, 2012 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Page 251, Line 4 ਅਨਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਅਰੁ ਙਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਮਨਹਠਿ ਮਿਲਿਅਉ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ अनिक भेख अरु ङिआन धिआन मनहठि मिलिअउ न कोइ ॥ Anik bẖekẖ ar ńi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān manhaṯẖ mili▫a▫o na ko▫e. By all sorts of religious robes, knowledge, meditation and stubborn-mindedness, no one has ever met God. Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 266, Line 1 ਭੇਖ ਅਨੇਕ ਅਗਨਿ ਨਹੀ ਬੁਝੈ ॥ भेख अनेक अगनि नही बुझै ॥ Bẖekẖ anek agan nahī bujẖai. Wearing various religious robes, the fire is not extinguished. Guru Arjan Dev Page 267, Line 11 ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭੇਖ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਮਲੁ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ बाहरि भेख अंतरि मलु माइआ ॥ Bāhar bẖekẖ anṯar mal mā▫i▫ā. Outwardly, they wear religious robes, but within is the filth of Maya. Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 352, Line 1 ਅਧਿਕ ਤਿਆਸ ਭੇਖ ਬਹੁ ਕਰੈ ॥ अधिक तिआस भेख बहु करै ॥ Aḏẖik ṯi▫ās bẖekẖ baho karai. Excessive thirst for Maya makes people wear all sorts of religious robes. Guru Nanak Dev Page 467, Line 16 ਬਹੁ ਭੇਖ ਕੀਆ ਦੇਹੀ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੀਆ ॥ बहु भेख कीआ देही दुखु दीआ ॥ Baho bẖekẖ kī▫ā ḏehī ḏukẖ ḏī▫ā. The more one wears religious robes, the more pain he causes his body. Guru Nanak Dev ਫਰੀਦਾ ਮੈ ਭੋਲਾਵਾ ਪਗ ਦਾ ਮਤੁ ਮੈਲੀ ਹੋਇ ਜਾਇ ॥ फरीदा मै भोलावा पग दा मतु मैली होइ जाइ ॥ Farīḏā mai bẖolāvā pag ḏā maṯ mailī ho▫e jā▫e. Fareed, I was worried that my turban might become dirty. गहिला रूहु न जाणई सिरु भी मिटी खाइ ॥२६॥ Gahilā rūhu na jāṇ▫ī sir bẖī mitī kẖā▫e. ||26|| My thoughtless self did not realize that one day, dust will consume my head as well. ||26|| Edited March 13, 2012 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) ਬੰਕੇ ਬਾਲ ਪਾਗ ਸਿਰਿ ਡੇਰੀ ॥ बंके बाल पाग सिरि डेरी ॥ Banke bāl pāg sir derī. You make your hair beautiful, and wear a stylish turban on your head. इहु तनु होइगो भसम की ढेरी ॥३॥ Ih ṯan ho▫igo bẖasam kī dẖerī. ||3|| But in the end, this body shall be reduced to a pile of ashes. ||3|| Edited March 13, 2012 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Page 1222, Line 13 ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਉ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਨ ਲਾਗੀ ਅਨਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਬਹੁ ਜੋਰੀ ॥ हरि के नाम सिउ प्रीति न लागी अनिक भेख बहु जोरी ॥ Har ke nām si▫o parīṯ na lāgī anik bẖekẖ baho jorī. He does not embrace love for the Name of the Lord; he is totally attached to various religious robes. Guru Arjan Dev 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 ਕੇਸ ਸੰਗਿ ਦਾਸ ਪਗ ਝਾਰਉ ਇਹੈ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਮੋਰ ॥੧॥ Kaes Sang Dhaas Pag Jhaaro Eihai Manorathh Mor ||1|| With my hair, I wash the feet of Your slave; this is my life's purpose. ||1|| Kes sang ḏās pag jẖāra▫o ihai manorath mor. ||1|| 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 It says that nau nidh understood kesh was kept in ancient times from shastras but why does the shastras then say kesh should be kept? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke-_eNhmMeU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shastra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vastu_shastra 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 also somewhere the rigvedas says a full human being is one with kesh as was done by sages, rishis, sadhus and yogis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 My understtanding is that Kesh is only a neccesity for Khalsa amritdhari sikhs. Not for the rest of the wider sikhi conglomerate. so are the Guru's not one jyot? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Not implying that. What i'm trying to pre-empt is people saying sikh=kesh. If that is so where does that leave the cut hair nirmalas and udasis or even the non panjabi sikhs such as the native sindhis, assamese etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 it could be that a high number of sadhus embraced sikhi so kesh was something of a norm between all. Also people also say accepting all the Gurus as gods is common some say guru nanak is god however we can argue against that as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) If that is so where does that leave the cut hair nirmalas and udasis or even the non panjabi sikhs such as the native sindhis, assamese etc? sindhis and assamese i dont know about too much, but lets consider nirmalas and udasis. i have never encountered or heard or any nirmalas or udasis with hair cut. Anyway in Bhai Mani Singh's Janam Sakhi, he has recorded Guru Nanak Dev Ji as telling Bhai Mardana to keep his kes. Seeing as all the samprdayes boil down to essentially Guru Nanak Dev Ji, could it be possible that there is no such thing as a hair cut nirmala/udasi? Edited March 19, 2012 by chatanga1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Dont know. I'm just going off what i've seen of Kumb mela clips of the different sikh samparda akharas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 there are thousands of differing sects of sadhus repped at Kumbh Mela, what made you identify any of these as Nirmalas/Udasis? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 well we would have sahjhadheris as cutting kesh there would be many newly going into sikhi through time perhaps they have adapted sikhi to them. But could it be kesh is more symbolic then actually having a real spiritual purpose? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Sehaj-dhari... Slow adopter. What do they eventually aim to adopt? Dasmesh Pita gave open invite to all Sikh Sangat to attend 1699 Vasakhi. His aim, to replace charan amrit with Khande de pahul. The spirituality of keeping kesh and taking amrit for a Sikh is simple, the mysticism lies in pleasing the Master of both world, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. We keep kesh as they are our Gur-Pitas moar (stamp/identity) and we his children carry his identity. Next - baana by it self is not complete, there must also be baani. The tuks shared re outward appearance are relevant to hypocrites in the Guru times... and of course in our times. The tuks are sadly totally relevant to our people today also, many of whom have baana but no baani. Baani is knowledge and manifest personality that knowledge (divine) creates. It is jaagrita. We should not ostracise Sehaj-dhari, but do quality sangat with them, and through personal example, they themselves will be drawn towards the Khalsa Panth. We should also not shy away from doing parchaar (not in a talibanic fashion, but in a highly educated way), puratan sampyrada replenished the Khalsa Panth during times of war, by doing constant parchaar - today we are fighting wars on many levels.. Inside and outside our own community. We must all unite on one thing irrelevant of differences, that is educating ourselves, making our jeevans sucham and sharing our Guru's divine philosophy unapologetically with the world. It is the beauty of our Gurbani and ithihaas which has historically taken care of Khalsa numbers. Today the quality of delivery of both is not what it used to be, especially in our Gurdwarai. This is where all efforts must be made - to change the spending culture of Gurdwarai. Invest in quality parcharaks rather than buildings. Every Gurdwara should have their own Sant Singh Maskeen, and the career of a gyani should be one that people are incentivised to take and inspire to. The first step is to make it financially attractive, so that aspirants will happily invest 10-15 years of their life studying full time and know that it will not go to waste, and that they will be able to live a sustainable grisht jeevan. There are many more actions which need to be taken, but this would be a good start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 shaheediyaan baba ji very nicely explained ..thank you very much ji 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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