Khalistan - Self Determination Of Minorities

[SURYADEV]

Assuming Sikhs get their right to self determination in Panjab- Khalistan.

Would the muslims of Malerkotla get the same right to have their own homeland, separate from the sikhs. Or even the people of Patiala, Nabha, Kapurthala etc? Afterall they had their own homelands in the past with their own kings, governments, laws etc.

What if they didn't want to live in khalistan under a sikh theocracy? Can we hand back their homelands to their respective Princes, Nawabs?

[Genie Singh]

well khalistan isn't going to happen it seems more like an idea just to scare and intimidate the government of india to back away from the sikhs. Realistically no one could take on the army of india, it is one of the worlds most strongest armies and say even if we were able to there would be an extremely high casualty rate it wouldn't be worth it right now as a population we are extremely outnumbered. It is probably best to establish better relations as for most who did operation bluestar babar khalsa dealt with them. Khalistan isn't happening but the RSS attack ideologically is real one which needs to be dealt with, with the pen and ink of scholars we need to re-educate people into proper sikhi other then that to take on offensively the caste and brahmin system to get hindus to turn against the caste system is important.

[SURYADEV]

I agree.

Its just a question posed to those who have a simpletons idea of a Utopian place. Just so they can expand their thoughts a bit and look at it from another perspective.

[chatanga1]

Assuming Sikhs get their right to self determination in Panjab- Khalistan.

Would the muslims of Malerkotla get the same right to have their own homeland, separate from the sikhs. Or even the people of Patiala, Nabha, Kapurthala etc? Afterall they had their own homelands in the past with their own kings, governments, laws etc.

What if they didn't want to live in khalistan under a sikh theocracy? Can we hand back their homelands to their respective Princes, Nawabs?

Suryadev

In 1991, I had the opportunity of co-representing a Sikh Human Rights Group, in Vienna, Austria, at the World Human Rights Conference. Most if not all countries in the world had similiar groups there. Only 2 countries out of the world sent their own officials down to disrupt the activities of those groups highlighting human rights abuses in their own countries, and one of them was india.

I sat in the meeting with the indian govt officials, and we had a discussion with them about what was happening in india, of course they were just paying lip service to us, whilst we were meeting them we were not meeting people who we should have been meeting!

Anyhows one of them asked the same question that you did, and I put forward an answer to that question. (Of course it was a stupid question from a stupid man, and the same is in your case, a stupid question from someone who should know better, but since you've said it, i might as well oblige you with an answer.)

" The Sikh people did not suddenly think we have to pursue a radical line of seperation from india, the Sikhs have been forced to adopt this stance becasue we feel that we have no rights of protection, as individuals or as a community from the govt agenacies, ie local govts and the police force, Even the judicary is partisan.

The fact that we have desired our country should alarm you, not because we wish to cause you or india any harm, we have no enmity with the indians, but what should alarm you, is why we have come to this thinking. The fact that you are sitting in front of us now, and we are having this debate, shows that we are right in pursuing our own country, because we are not protected in yours.

You should be asking yourselves why have the Sikhs turned against india, and how the situation can be rectified. Not killing Sikh youths and creating terror in Panjab. Where a person feels wanted and protected by the state, he will have no issue in wanting out, but where a person, feels that he is victimised simply because of who he is, then he will want out.

If in Khalistan, any HIndus are victimised for being HIndus, then we will be just as bad as you, and I would hate to be classed in the same category as you, in the respect of human rights. We will not demand our rights from you, only to abuse others later, if we do, then like you we will find ourselves in the middle of a crisis like you are in.

It will be our duty to look after any minorities in khalistan, and to ensure that they have no issue to rebel over. Im sure that if india had taken the same line many years ago, then it would have been a much better place to live, and a much stronger country than it is now."

Of course they listened, but they knew already what the answer to be, as i suspect you knew what the answer to you question would be.

Quite simply, set the example you wish to see!

Now going back to that turd of a line you have written about handing areas back to the nawabs, becasue they had a rule there sometime or the other, what about before their time, why not give it back to the hindus? If this is the mark, why doesnt india ask for pakistan, bangladesh and afghansitan back as hindus were there first?

Edited April 5, 2012 by chatanga1

[chatanga1]

I agree.

Its just a question posed to those who have a simpletons idea of a Utopian place. Just so they can expand their thoughts a bit and look at it from another perspective.

we might be simpletons, but you are just being a dick.

[dalsingh101]

Fight! Fight! Fight!

hee hee hee

[chatanga1]

it's nothing personal, i just hate it when stupid questions are asked deliberately.

[dalsingh101]

Thing is, from how I see it, we just plain don't seem ready for a Sikh nation.

In that article I recently posted by Cynthia Mahmood, she explicitly makes the point that although, yes, we have [at least had!] some brave arse fighters, but we just don't seem to have the big vision George Washington types. People who made big moves like giving blacks freedom and enforcing it against resistance.

I challenge any pro-Khalistani (and remember I was one for a long while), to tell me that if we got our own nation today, it wouldn't inherit our ugly arse feudal bullshit, pendu caste system at its core, with all its ugly inequalities.

We know from long standing existing practice amongst ourselves that huge chunks (if not the majority of apnay) would be happy with such a scenario. It is also HIGHLY likely that being unrestrained, certain haughty mofos are likely to be EVEN WORSE than they already our towards people they deem as inferior.

Personally as a Sikh, seeing that would make me sick to my core - I mean it already does, but to risk the REAL possibility of it getting worse............hhmmmm

[SURYADEV]

You make a valid point about asking why we have got the stage where we want to be seperate from rest of India. And it does require some deep introspection by the Indian establishment. You state that we will/should not behave like our current Delhi masters. I have not seen one iota of evidence that we can even manage that.

Just extrapolate the behaviour of our current sikh leader - the SGPC, politiocians, Jathedars ,businessmen, academics , the 'movers and shakers' of the sikh world etc and see whether those types of people can be statesmen? My prediction is rather negative.

The only person I see who demonstrates anything like statesman like behaviour is sat in Patiala waiting for the noose.

But this still remains an academic point.

The reality is that as soon as Khalistan is gained there will be other groups who will want to further sub-divide the state. Whether it involves their greed, malevolence against the new created sikh state or hindu/muslim minority rights or whatever reasons. Furthermore, whoever these guys are, you dont need the brains of an Akal Takat Jathedar to know that indian intelligence commmunity will be in the thick of it.

You may call it a 'stupid' question but it still needs answering. We wont have the benefit of US backing that Israel has.

Also are sikhs willing to make the sacrifice required? Just look at any other new-born country: the process entails mass slaughter, rapes, pillage, anarchy, looting, ethnic cleansing, retribution murders. And that is AFTER independence. That is reaaly a question for those living in Pb to answer.

[dalsingh101]

Some strong points above Suryadev.

I've gone from idealist to cynic, solely based on the hypocrisy and actions of our own people.

[chatanga1]

You state that we will/should not behave like our current Delhi masters. I have not seen one iota of evidence that we can even manage that.

Just extrapolate the behaviour of our current sikh leader - the SGPC, politiocians, Jathedars ,businessmen, academics , the 'movers and shakers' of the sikh world etc and see whether those types of people can be statesmen? My prediction is rather negative.

In the current climate my preiction would be negative as well, but remember that during the misls this is the situation we were reduced to even holding large chunks of Panjab, but out of that period came a man who turned everything upside down and made a success out of it.

The movers and shakers are moving and shaking under the hold of 2 men only.

The movement basically needs to become more encompassing, and i think that it has become that a lot more than in the 80s and 90s. That said, there is still a lot of work to be done.