Confessions Of An American Sikh - New Book

[dalsingh101]

Looks interesting:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Confessions-American-Sikh-corrupt-tantric/dp/1481172751/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1356872460&sr=1-2

[HSD1]

Now available for 77 of your Queen's pence if you have a kindle device or computer.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Confessions-American-Sikh-corrupt-ebook/dp/B00ANSWUPM/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1360329462&sr=1-1

Or a dollar elsewhere.

[dalsingh101]

Anyone use those Kindle things? What they like?

[HSD1]

Probably not as good as a physical copy. You'll need power for your computer to read the book. No idea if it lets you print it or if it has DRM. But the price is incredibly cheap.

[HSD1]

Right, to get it you need this programme for your Windows 7 computer (or download the app to a smartphone):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_ln_ar?docId=1000423913

For other devices:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_164007747_3?ie=UTF8&docId=1000425503&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-9&pf_rd_r=1F6C3VCVN7XB06B4DJ2N&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_p=295622067&pf_rd_i=1000423913

You can use your Amazon account ID to log into Kindle.

There is a 'demo' version of the book available for download which is 36 pages long. Practically this Kindle gives you a PDF-esque file that can be viewed like a document.

The book certainly looks interesting, a bit like a Sikh version of American History X.

[HSD1]

Bloody hell, it was everything I expected and more.

[dalsingh101]

^^

Well I hope your going to resist any intrinsic 'hogi' instincts you may be experiencing that cause you to point fingers anywhere but inwards.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the actions (and lack of) by those hordes of Panjabi peasant scumbags sitting atop all Sikh institutes back home than one Yogi Bhajan, whose dead anyway.

As they say in Panjabi, 'lets sweep the filth from under our bed, before we complain about the dirt under people's manjis'.

[HSD1]

Have you read the book? They're one and the same now.

That's how white sikhs see it anyway now.

[dalsingh101]

No I haven't read it. I have a backlog of stuff I have to read before I get to it.

What you say is interesting.

I don't see them as the same myself though.

I see the corruption in the white thing as more of a purely materialistic thing, nothing tribal/racial about it.

On the other hand the crap going on in Amritsar is much deeper, more complex, a long standing affair with clear racial/caste (whatever people calling it these days?) and political dimensions (themselves revolving around jat caste identity).

[HSD1]

Lol, I'm not blaming anyone one or trying to bring race into it.

The thing is that since the end of the Second World War we Sikhs have felt that we are no longer relevant in the modern world as the world power we were 'best chums' with is no longer top dog. In desperation to change this we cant really start copying tactics that we ourselves have issues with. Doing anything to get converts is going to backfire and, if the book is true, has already happened. The account of the 'lost second generation' was just alarming.

In our rush for converts we cant just ignore the religous landscapes of the places we come to. It's not a cultural or racial thing, it's a behavioural thing. Like a guy who had a bad childhood who then emulates the things his own parents did to him with his own children. It has nothing to do with race or culture but it is still a self-perpetuating issue and can become a norm over a long enough period. If we convert others, we cant expect them not to tolerate things that they are used to. Like in the West, whether it's a cult or an established religion, they have problems with sexual violence and paedophilia. It's not a surprise when that translates to Sikhi, especially if its not introduced carefully and fully fledged with all kinds of information. Hell, look how hard it is for people like us born into Sikh families to get back into our religion and rediscover our history.

If we cant even pass it from generation to generation properly without letting the bs slip in then what hope do we have with outsiders with far more complicated societies? It's not as if they dont have their own idiosyncrasies that can be exploited by savvy Punjabis.

I'm sure the last thing we Sikhs would want is 'Kurtz' types running around the world...................or to have Anglo-saxon appropriation narrate our own future. There is a lot to ponder.

As for East Punjab, we are sleeping on a barnful of cow dung there. Gursant Singh's experiences validate a lot of Punjabi narratives of how things are screwed up there. I hope you get round to reading it soon.

[dalsingh101]

Lol, I'm not blaming anyone one or trying to bring race into it.

That's a part of the problem. You NEED to be bringing the dire, deep rooted problems we have with jat tribe/race/caste (whatever the **** that bullshit is passing itself off as these days?) to the forefront of Panjabi Sikh problems - instead of tip toeing around it like a coy girl.

The thing is that since the end of the Second World War we Sikhs have felt that we are no longer relevant in the modern world as the world power we were 'best chums' with is no longer top dog. In desperation to change this we cant really start copying tactics that we ourselves have issues with. Doing anything to get converts is going to backfire and, if the book is true, has already happened. The account of the 'lost second generation' was just alarming.

In our rush for converts we cant just ignore the religous landscapes of the places we come to

If we were using those tactics as a community 'en masse', I'd agree, but in reality, if what you are suggesting IS true, then really only a small group is actually doing such things. Truth is that our fellow Panjabi brethren generally couldn't give a rat's ar5e about passing on the faith and are more concerned about posing their 'success' or using their adherence as some sort of 'social glue' in their social circles. No problems with conversion because we don't do it as a community - which is a whole other big topic in itself!

It's not a cultural or racial thing, it's a behavioural thing. Like a guy who had a bad childhood who then emulates the things his own parents did to him with his own children. It has nothing to do with race or culture but it is still a self-perpetuating issue and can become a norm over a long enough period.

It's a jat cultural thing. Once jat culture modifies itself or dies, certain issues we have will disappear. Sure, new ones will appear, but right now, jat thinking and hegemony is destroying the Panjabi Sikh community.

If we convert others, we cant expect them not to tolerate things that they are used to. Like in the West, whether it's a cult or an established religion, they have problems with sexual violence and paedophilia. It's not a surprise when that translates to Sikhi, especially if its not introduced carefully and fully fledged with all kinds of information. Hell, look how hard it is for people like us born into Sikh families to get back into our religion and rediscover our history.If we cant even pass it from generation to generation properly without letting the bs slip in then what hope do we have with outsiders with far more complicated societies? It's not as if they dont have their own idiosyncrasies that can be exploited by savvy Punjabis.

I vehemently disagree with you. Lately HSD, it seems like you've become chief excuse monger for what is plainly extreme liberty taking but people within our society. Even someone with below average IQ can fathom out that their parents hypocritical nonsense goes starkly against every ideal they are reading in their kiddies Sikh books. Because jat culture normalises such bull5hite they go along with it in fear of being ostracised - knowing full well it is wrong.

I don't buy what you are saying - in my own life time the material to access Sikhi in terms of translations, the Internet and quality analysis has grown so greatly, there is no excuse for ignorance - all people need to get back to their faith and history is half a brain and just a smattering of integrity. Nothing else.

I'm sure the last thing we Sikhs would want is 'Kurtz' types running around the world...................or to have Anglo-saxon appropriation narrate our own future. There is a lot to ponder.

Arguably anglo-saxons have already narrated jat history and Sikh history in Singh Sabha form. What is there to ponder?

As for East Punjab, we are sleeping on a barnful of cow dung there. Gursant Singh's experiences validate a lot of Punjabi narratives of how things are screwed up there. I hope you get round to reading it soon.

F*** EP, we have to make good here. Let them rot in their own filth for a while, we should concentrate on establishing firm, solid communities in the diaspora for now. We'll deal with those peasant jerks back home later.

[HSD1]

That's a part of the problem. You NEED to be bringing the dire, deep

rooted problems we have with jat tribe/race/caste (whatever the ****

that bullshit is passing itself off as these days?) to the forefront of

Panjabi Sikh problems - instead of tip toeing around it like a coy

girl.

Well depends on the issue. Gurudwara management? Yes. Grooming? No. I'm not sure why you think every issue should be caste based - either it is or it isnt. If it is and nobody else says it is , then you have to explain your point of view. You cant expect all of us to understand the way you see things are unless you explain it to us.

If we were using those tactics as a community 'en masse', I'd agree, but

in reality, if what you are suggesting IS true, then really only a

small group is actually doing such things. Truth is that our fellow

Panjabi brethren generally couldn't give a rat's ar5e about passing on

the faith and are more concerned about posing their 'success' or using

their adherence as some sort of 'social glue' in their social circles.

No problems with conversion because we don't do it as a community -

which is a whole other big topic in itself!

You could say the same about the muslim and xtian masses too. Still doesnt mean they have internal issues with how their religion is practiced or the 'holier than thou' types from religous organisations with chips on their shoulders like JW or the various Islamic versions.

It's a jat cultural thing. Once jat culture modifies itself or dies,

certain issues we have will disappear. Sure, new ones will appear, but

right now, jat thinking and hegemony is destroying the Panjabi Sikh

community.

I was on about Gursant Singh's issues with Punjabi and White Sikhs.

I vehemently disagree with you. Lately HSD, it seems like you've

become chief excuse monger for what is plainly extreme liberty taking

but people within our society. Even someone with below average IQ can

fathom out that their parents hypocritical nonsense goes starkly against

every ideal they are reading in their kiddies Sikh books. Because jat

culture normalises such bull5hite they go along with it in fear of being

ostracised - knowing full well it is wrong.

I don't buy what you are saying - in my own life time the material to

access Sikhi in terms of translations, the Internet and quality

analysis has grown so greatly, there is no excuse for ignorance - all

people need to get back to their faith and history is half a brain and

just a smattering of integrity. Nothing else.

What exactly am I excusing? I made the point that if we cant live by a moral code we cant really expect non-Punjabis to either. It will just descend into fingerpointing.

Arguably anglo-saxons have already narrated jat history and Sikh history in Singh Sabha form. What is there to ponder?

Look at the Welsh and their history over the last 1500 years in relation to the English and you'll get what I mean. We're not the first this has happened to.

And read the Heart of Darkness to get some perspective about the dangers of our own using their background to abuse others.

[dalsingh101]

It's Saturday night, I'm going to chill tonight. Will pick up on some points in next few days.

In meanwhile, fill us in with what Singh says about grooming. I'm ignorant about it.

Quick note:

RE: the conversion thing. My point was that there is not any systematic, indigenous 'Sikh conversion drive'. What is taking place in America is sort of separate from Panjabis generally (which is another big topic in itself).