Avidya

[curious_man]

WJKK WJKF,

I have read few books and articles (vedantic and Suraj prakash's rut 5) about the nature of avidya!!

But i m still confused!!!

instead of telling what i think (maybe i m completely wrong),, i want to ask / discuss with u guys..

lets get into it!!

1. What is Avidya?

2. How / when it is created - because Kavi santokh ji states (bin janam, bin akaar...), thats same definition of Brahman.

2. If it really is something real, then where does it resides?

3.If its unreal.. then how does it affects us?

4. If brahman is all Anand roop then how come avidya is present in Brahaman or even in Atama??

WJKK WJKF

[BhagatSingh]

Those are big questions. Start us off. Tell us what you think then we can start building on it.

[curious_man]

Well, what I think is what Puratan Granths say.. but I am unable to decipher it. Moreover while getting deep i face the above mentioned questions!

examples:

i read various commentaries from Advaita scholars.. about avidya but then counter arguments from vishishtadvaita and dvait scholars which are generally the above ones!!

i read Kavi Santokh ji's 5th rut along with Dhudikey wale's and Hari singh Randhawa waley's katha about avidya 42nd adhyaya.. but its not deep explanation.. they just state that avidya or agyan is bin akaar (but thats soul/god too), its bin janam (again thats soul/god too), rahey ik braham ke desh mein (that means it stays someplace in GOD.. how????????????? where ????? no clear description)

then i came to excellent source Prabodh Chandar Natak where how Agyan creats the whole universe is explained but its too difficult punjabi and i dont feel it still answers those questions but maybe it does as i m not able to translate it word by word. Start reading from sawayaa:

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/displayPageContent.jsp?ID=8481&page=24&CategoryID=1&Searched=parbodh

thanks for considering this topic!!

[SAadmin]

Just quickly here is my understanding not sure if its right-

1. Avidya is ignorance of this jiv that he is jiv not atma-paratma roop, that actual perception that he is separate entity from Vahiguroo.

2. It's created by maya upon vahiguroo transcendent its creation, maya itself on its own is jarr just matter so since maya itself cannot sustain itself, vahiguroo chaitanta(supreme consciousness shakti) nourishing its maya,

3. Avidya It's neither real or fake, its connected with our human consciousness/meta reality/perception. It exist as long as human consciousness perceives it, as soon as human consciousness perceives bhramgyan of real self, avidya is no where to be found in that human consciousness/perception.

4. Great question, as far i understand- avidya does not exist in atma/bhraman but rather exist in this jiv/individual perception who is perceiving their self to be separate, everything is connected with human consciousness and its perception of perceiving things.

I will explain understanding little more tomorrow.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

Legend has it that before Time came into existence, in a certain place a Mahapurush had residence. The Mahapurush decided to have a Son. The only way to create a Son was through Sacrifice and Sacrificial rites. So for a 1000 years the Mahapurush sacrificed. As he Sacrificed a doubt crept into his mind, as to whether this Sacrifice would be successful. From this doubt sprung forth a Son whose name was Agyaan. Before the doubt had crept in, the Sacrifice had actually been a success, so the Son he wanted was also born, His name was Gyaan. Because Agyaan was the eldest he was given Kingship over the existing world which was the whole Universe. So the Mahapurush said that to govern the Universe you will need a family, so he married Agyaan to Avidya and Gyaan to Vidya.

So ignorance/avidya arose from the Real but it was a thought about something non-existent. So it is both real and unreal. If you look directly at the sun's light you become blind, but if you look at something where the sun's light is reflected you can see. So for the Universe to exist ignorance has to be made first, in order to embody non-existence, and as a body to reflect the light of the Unmanifest God, So God can see Himself. But the first Cosmic Ignorance is immaterial, only successive emanations create dense physical matter. This drama is reflected in Humans and Human race. But in Humans the false personality is agyaan/avidya and the true Self is Gyaan. In the Universe Gyaan and Agyaan are balanced but for Humans there is imbalance towards Agyaan.

[BhagatSingh]

Awesome responses above.

Curious Man

It says:-

The sun's rays appear as water (in a mirage) and this ignorance has created the world.

Basically, everything you see is Parmatma but you don't see the Sun rays (Parmatma), you see the water (world). The ignorance of not knowing this then has created the water (world) out of sun rays (Parmatma).

Edited February 14, 2013 by BhagatSingh

[das]

Avidaya, Dawat, Agyan, Maya, Kudrat (Nature), God's Magic, Maan (Mind) are one and the same thing. Neo has explained this extremly well.

The following links would help you to understand with examples. Both the links are basically from "Ishwar Amolak Lal (Personal Diary of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib)". Please read the links in order and it should answer all of your questions.

http://satgur.net/Articles/Spiritual/2

http://satgur.net/Articles/Spiritual/20

[curious_man]

Thank you all!! Gimme some time to read as I am bit busy this week.

I hope my doubts clear up.. else.. i would bug you guys again.. haha

Happy Valentines day ..

[SAadmin]

This is interesting topic, love to get more replies...i will move this topic under topic of the week for now to get more exposure.

[singh598]

1. What is Avidya?

A. Haumai ie Ego

2.How / when it is created

A. Its was created by Maya - See Asa Ki Var stanza on haumai

3. If it really is something real, then where does it reside?

A. It is real as stated in Asa Ki Var and it resides in the mind

4. If its unreal.. then how does it affects us?

A. It is unreal only when you achieve self realization, mans true identity ie, man marjaieh taat marjaie

" when the mind dies so does the ego"(SGGS)

5. If brahman is all Anand roop then how come avidya is present in Brahaman or even in Atama??

Avidiya is neither present in Brahman (God) or in the jeev atma. Avidiya is present only in the mind

[Guest]

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[Guest]

This from Sant Jagjit Singh Harkhowale katha:

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Raag means-individualistic love/attachment/desires with ego, Dvaish- partiality/dualistic mind

From Avidya(ignorance that this jiv is separate) everything is born.

Here is the cycle-

From Avidya (ignorance this jiv is seperate) - ego is born.

From ahankar (ego) doership is born then- raag and dvaish is born

From Raag and Dvaish- karams are born

And from Karam, this individual jev(person) goes through cycle rebirth/reincarnation of seperations from Vahiguroo.

Here is Same cycle shown reversed in order to go back to our real self-

If one does not wish to have sorrow in future, have a genuine desire not be born seperated again from Vahiguroo.

If you have desire not be born seperated again from Vahiguroo, don't do karams with your individualistic mind affected with ego.

In order not to do karams with your individualistic mind- don't do raag dvaish.

In order not to do raag dvaish- rise above from egoistic mind.

In order not to have egoistic mind- learn internal bibek with buddhi(intellect). Buddhi(intellect-pure cognitve perception) other end is atma

In order to have true internal bibek, use bhramgyan(knowledge of real self) to destroy avidya.

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[sarabatam]

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