The Future Of Gurdwaras In Pakistan

[chatanga1]

sending sewadars always gets tricky whenever india and pakistan have a spat over something, and the indians arent very keen on the sikhs forging closer ties with Pakistan. After Pakistan gave permission for the corridor to Kartarpur Sahib, across the Ravi, which meant that the Sikhs ould go there from east panjab whenever they wanted, but the indian govt refused to allow this.

i think sending sewadars may be a second option, first would be to get sikhs living there organised to do as much as they can, with the diaspora filling in as and where needed.

[chatanga1]

Please see below, 4 photos that I never knew existed, until 2 days ago. They are the Samadh of Rani Raj Kaur, mother of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, also known as Mai Nakkain, as she was the daughter of a Nakkain Sardar.

there were 2 other photos but cant seem to upload them.

These samadhis of the royal ladies of the Sikh Empire are situated within the grounds of the Islamia College at Civil Lines, just south west of the Chilla of Baba Farid Ganj Shakar. The samadhis are placed on a solid 10 feet high square platform. The original staircase was on the east end of the platform and led up to the samadhi of Maharani Nakain Kaur. Her samadhi is square in structure measuring 16 feet on each side surmounted by a fluted dome. The dome was topped by a metal finial, which is no longer extant. A door has been provided on each of the four sides. Inside, at the center was an 18 inches high and 3x3 feet wide platform on which was placed the stone urn containing the ashes of the second wife of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and mother of Kharak Singh. Her original name was Raj Kaur but she changed her name to Datar Kaur because Ranjit Singh's mother was also named Raj Kaur. She was married to the Maharaja in 1798 who lovingly addressed her as Mal Nakain. She died on 20 June 1838 and her samadhi was built around the same time.

South of the samadhi of Nakain Kaur, on the same platform is the samadhi of Maharani Chand Kaur, wife of Kharak Singh and mother of Naunehal Singh. Her samadhi is also square in construction and measures 16 feet on each side, similar to that of her mother-in-law's. Each of the four corners of the building are topped by small domed towers. In the center is a fluted dome similar to that of Nakain Kaur's samadhi, however; it was never topped with a finial and only the metal rod could be seen emanating from the top of the dome when Kanhaiya Lal wrote about them in 1884. Chand Kaur was married to Kharak Singh in 1812 at the age of 10. She claimed the throne of Lahore in November 1840 for about two and a half months following the deaths of her husband Kharak Singh and son Naunehal Singh. She challenged Sher Singh, the second son of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, on the grounds that her daughter in law, Kanvar Naunehal Singh's widow, Sahib Kaur, was pregnant and that she would assume regency on behalf of the unborn legal successor to her husband's throne. Sher Singh, winning support of a rival group at the court and of a section of the army, marched upon Lahore. In July 1841, Nau Nihal Singh's widow Sahib Kaur delivered a stillborn son. This ended whatever hopes Chand Kaur had of realizing her claims. She was killed on 11 June 1842 by her maids who had been appointed by Dhian Singh in collusion with Sher Singh.
Between these samadhis, to the west is another smaller samadhi belonging to Sahib Kaur, wife of Naunehal Singh. It is octagonal in shape, about half the height of the other two samadhis and topped by a smaller simpler dome. Naunehal Singh was married to Sahib Kaur in 1837 at the age of 16. She died in 1841.

Edited September 10, 2013 by chatanga1

[chatanga1]

There was a Sikh young lady on Sikh Channel today, talking about the Jagannath Gurdwara, where Guru Nanak Dev Ji revealed Aarti shabad. Apparently it has also gone the same way as some of these Gurdwaras in Pakistan.

Sikh Channel wilol be showing this program soon, keep an eye out for it.

[SikhKhoj]

Happened to us everywhere bro. Do you know that old English books talk of a sacred Gurdwara in the Middle East held as sacred by the sikhs as mecca by the Muslims? Might be an exaggeration but there were many such Gurdwaras related to Guru Nanak Maharaaj, they're all gone. Once upon a time 50% of Bihar was Nanakpanthi, today not even 0.5 %, this also kills the chances of caretakers of such historical places, relics, Gurdwaras. Handwritten manuscripts written by Gurus contemponary Singhs are in Bihar villages, etc but we just don't preserve anything.

So many places related to Sikhs have been renamed too. One place in Western India was Gobind Ghat but renamed as Gandhi Ghat (lol).

You're right about local sevadaars. Most Gurdwaras are in Gujrat and other Majha West Pak areas. The NWFP Sikhs are endangered so they willing to move down Punjab but someone has to help them out with it. We could 'kill two birds with a stone' if we help these Sikhs move to safer areas and also manage to get some of them jobs as paid caretakers who tour all Gurdwaras in 20km circumference of their village.

Edited September 11, 2013 by SikhKhoj

[chatanga1]

Saturday, December, 22 2012 - 12:56


PATIALA: Pakistan government has authorized the Delhi Sikh Gurudwara Management Committee (DSGMC) to do renovation work at two historic Gurdwaras situated in the country.

"They have asked the DSGMC to conduct the 'kar sewa' of Gurudwara Dera Sahib, Lahore and Gurudwara Ber Sahib, Sialkot," said DSGMC president Paramjeet Singh Sarna after returning from his visit to Pakistan.

The Dewan hall of Gurudwara Dera Sahib would be raised and we would build it new, he added.

When asked about old structures where Guru Granth Sahib has been installed, he said as of now no decision has been taken to disturb the old structure.

"We would take into confidence the Archaeological department of Pakistan in this regard," he said.

"We will also form an expert committee along with the finance committee to carry out the construction work," he said.

Sarna also claimed that the PETPB has also authorized DSGMC to carry out maintenance work at an inn at Nankana Sahib, which has a capacity to house 2,000 devotees.

"The DSGMC will bear the cost," he said.

There are more than five hundred Sikh Gurdwaras and other historical Sikh places in Pakistan, except 20 all others are in bad condition.

I have always had my doubts about people like Sarna getting involved. There has been another quite frightening aspect of this, that Asif Hashmi, the ex-Auqf Chariman, is involved. He has sold off so much Gurdwara land, in his tenure as Auqf chairman that the Sikh Council of Pakistan registered a case against him and won in the Pakistan Courts last August. Yet here he is holding hands with Sarna.

I hope that Sarna doesnt completely dismantle the existing historic buildings as well.

But is it right that "outsider" Sikhs are doing this? The Pakistan Sikhs should be given the lead, not Indian Sikhs I think.

[chatanga1]

There is a "Pakistan Sikh Forum" on facebook.

please join and encourage and support our pakistani sikh brothers to help renovate gurdwaras.

[tonyhp32]

The Hindus of Pakistan have the Hindu government of India to protect them so why should we care what happens to them? Where are your BJP, Bandar sena/Trishul dharis Hindus who like to scare the minorities where they are in a majority, let's see them go to Pakistan and protect your Hindu women who are daily being abducted,

[Jonny101]

Look at that!! Purchasing Sikhs! convert poor Hindus into Sikhs. what kind of Sikhi do you represent, dollar rich Sikhi? what happened to the sava lakh spirit? where are those large dolley wale soorme who claim that Sikhs saved Hinduism. Looks like Hindus would have to come forward to save Sikhi again.

On one hand Hindus like to claim Sikhs are Hindus, but show their hypocrisy when they object to Hindus becoming Sikhs. If Sikhs are Hindus, what should it matter to you if Hindus in Pakistan are becoming Sikhs.

[chatanga1]

Please do not derail this topic, it is not about hindus in pakistan, but about the future of gurdwaras in pakistan. there are other threads on hindus or minorities in pakistan, on this forum.

thanks.

[Guest]

I agree any off-topics will be moved to new thread.

[chatanga1]

A simple display about the Pakistan Sikh heritage at local Gurdwara. Please see if you can do something similar at your local gurdwara. I can email you the presentation if you find it is suitable.

[tonyhp32]

The SGPC is useless in any attempt to protect the Gurdwaras in Pakistan. I like the idea of Sikh Khoj because a Gurdwara can only really function and have its future assured if there is an active Sikh community to use it as its focal point. The Pakistani Sikhs are very small in number probably about 12000 and are located in areas which are far from the historic Gurdwaras in West Punjab.

The approach needs to be pragmatic. There is just not enough resources to save the Gurdwaras which are not historical in the sense that they were build to meet the needs of Sikh migrants in the canal colonies like Lyallpur. Due to proximity of the Sikh community in Khyber Pakhtunwa the Gurdwaras there should be quite easy to maintain and resurrect.

The Gurdwaras in West Punjab apart from Nankana Sahib have virtually not Sikh communities living around. Therefore what is needed is for a Sikh community to be settled in the area around the Gurdwara. What needs to have is high level activism by Sikh organisations outside India to protect the lands that each of these have attached to them. This would release the required funds as the lands should be leased out. The Sikh community around each Gurdwara would require s school which could be started in the Gurdwara premises or in a hall attached to the Gurdwara. In order to keep these communities in contact with the rest of the Sikh world the main way would be through these Gurdwaras being made a part of the yatri trail so that at least once a year a substantial number of Sikhs from other countries can vsit these Gurdwaras.

[Jonny101]

The SGPC is useless in any attempt to protect the Gurdwaras in Pakistan. I like the idea of Sikh Khoj because a Gurdwara can only really function and have its future assured if there is an active Sikh community to use it as its focal point. The Pakistani Sikhs are very small in number probably about 12000 and are located in areas which are far from the historic Gurdwaras in West Punjab.

The approach needs to be pragmatic. There is just not enough resources to save the Gurdwaras which are not historical in the sense that they were build to meet the needs of Sikh migrants in the canal colonies like Lyallpur. Due to proximity of the Sikh community in Khyber Pakhtunwa the Gurdwaras there should be quite easy to maintain and resurrect.

The Gurdwaras in West Punjab apart from Nankana Sahib have virtually not Sikh communities living around. Therefore what is needed is for a Sikh community to be settled in the area around the Gurdwara. What needs to have is high level activism by Sikh organisations outside India to protect the lands that each of these have attached to them. This would release the required funds as the lands should be leased out. The Sikh community around each Gurdwara would require s school which could be started in the Gurdwara premises or in a hall attached to the Gurdwara. In order to keep these communities in contact with the rest of the Sikh world the main way would be through these Gurdwaras being made a part of the yatri trail so that at least once a year a substantial number of Sikhs from other countries can vsit these Gurdwaras.

excellent points. In addition to this, growth of the community should also be promoted in the form of proselytizing. Since it is against the law to proselytize Muslims, so Sikhi parchar can be directed towards the Hindus and Christian communities who number in the millions. The future of the Gurdwaras will not be secure without an active Sikh community around these historic Gurdwaras. Sikhs community in Pakistan should at least be a million strong.

[tonyhp32]

These communities need to be around 200-300 strong at least for each Gurdwara. As I wrote earlier the Sikh population appears to be only around 12,000. This figure is based on the number of Sikhs over 18 who have got ID cards from the NADRA organisation in Pakistan and then working out the under 18s based on the under 18s in the whole population.

The vast majority of the Hindu population in Pakistan are Sindhi and these people are more closer to Sikhism than Hinduism. The problem is that there are not many historic Gurdwaras in Sindh. So the potential manpower for looking after the historic Gurdwaras in West Punjab reside a distance away and belong to a culture that is different from the culture that exists around the historic Gurdwaras in West Punjab.

[chatanga1]

Hi all. Wanted to bump this thread again and bring everyone news of a dismaying situation in Lahore, with the ShaheedGanj of Bhai Taru Singh being taken over by Barelvi muslims. Some years ago, a sect of muslims took over this Gurdwara and painted one of the domes green, although it has been repainted white.

This article mentions the same guy behind the recent attempt on 26th July, Sohail Butt. He is the same guy who made the video on the 26th threatening Sikhs in Pakistan.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070827/main8.htm

 

[Premi]

Bumping this up as a great thread

@HSD the photos you posted , do you still have them?

[HSD]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:24 PM, Premi said:

Bumping this up as a great thread

@HSD the photos you posted , do you still have them?

Unfortunately not. 

[GurjantGnostic]

On 6/5/2022 at 4:08 PM, HSD said:

Unfortunately not. 

Were the internet real still we might find them. Lol. Archive org maybe?

We've gone from www to just a select w. 

[GurjantGnostic]

On 3/12/2013 at 5:08 PM, HSD1 said:

 

 

Archive.org has thousands of snapshots and they're all blank now. 

[GurjantGnostic]

The internet. Is actively being redacted and we are on a subnet. Welcome to the north korean internet model. 100. Identical practice. It's just less obvious because western powers controlled the original net. 

[Sajjan_Thug]

On 7/28/2020 at 10:04 AM, chatanga1 said:

Hi all. Wanted to bump this thread again and bring everyone news of a dismaying situation in Lahore, with the ShaheedGanj of Bhai Taru Singh being taken over by Barelvi muslims. Some years ago, a sect of muslims took over this Gurdwara and painted one of the domes green, although it has been repainted white.

This article mentions the same guy behind the recent attempt on 26th July, Sohail Butt. He is the same guy who made the video on the 26th threatening Sikhs in Pakistan.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070827/main8.htm

 

Have Budha Dal Nihang Singhs been informed of this, maybe they can send a Dal to help run the Gurdwara?

Do any puratan sampraday do parcher in pakistan?

[chatanga1]

8 hours ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

Have Budha Dal Nihang Singhs been informed of this, maybe they can send a Dal to help run the Gurdwara?

Sorry to say brother, but you seem to be very optimistic of Buddha Dal's reach and capabilities. They can, and have done nothing. But does that surprise you? In the last 2 years Gurdwara Dongmar in Sikkim (India) has been taken over by Budhists, yet no Buddha Dal there.

The only 2 organisations that can do anything is SGPC and PSGPC. However the PSGPC is extremely weak, although the they have registered a case in Pakistan to get it back, but that, as in India, takes years. It's already been 4 years and no development.

The only way is to highlight it, whenever and wherever we can.

 

8 hours ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

Do any puratan sampraday do parcher in pakistan?

Unfortunately no, because SGPC controls all parcharaks from Panjab who go there, which means that no Samprdai has any influence ther.

[Sajjan_Thug]

17 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Unfortunately no, because SGPC controls all parcharaks from Panjab who go there, which means that no Samprdai has any influence ther.

All the sampradays have members in the sgpc (buddha dal, nirmalas...). So they can let their voice by heard. Have they even asked? How many parcharks are sent yearly by sgpc?  

Couldn't each of the sampradays send their own parcharaks individually to visit pak and take care of gurdwara for the short time they visit?  

Maybe sampraday sadhus who are brahmcharye or who focus on Bhagti should be sent by sampradays to look after the gurdwaras and do their Bhagti in the process?

[Sajjan_Thug]

On 2/11/2014 at 11:53 AM, chatanga1 said:

There is a "Pakistan Sikh Forum" on facebook.

 

please join and encourage and support our pakistani sikh brothers to help renovate gurdwaras.

Is this the forum your talking about?  It is a private group

https://m.facebook.com/groups/PakistanSikhForum/about/

 

There is another Facebook group called Pakistan Sikh Council 

https://m.facebook.com/pakistansikhcouncil/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0

 

You think it might be a good idea to compile all sikh organizations/websites in pak?

[chatanga1]

6 hours ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

Is this the forum your talking about?  It is a private group

I haven't been on it for ages. I didn't know it had changed since.

 

6 hours ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

You think it might be a good idea to compile all sikh organizations/websites in pak?

Can only be a good thing.